ISU Grand Prix Assignments 2018/19 season

[screech]

Considering none of Canada's top skaters of the last decade or so are competing this year, I think that Keegan being first alternate is a huge accomplishment, especially since before this season he'd never placed higher than 5th at a GP event. His 7th place in the overall rankings is also the highest GP series ranking of any non-Chan Canadian male since 05/06 (that year we had 2 men actually qualify for the GPF).

Another positive is that despite being 3rd alternates, MT-M have had their best GP season to date (3rd and 4th). The 'disappointment' IMO is that Gilles/Poirier are only second alternates.

 

[Sylvia]

Cross-posting the GPF Qualifiers and Substitutes from the GPF subforum in the Kiss & Cry section to here...

GPF MEN QUALIFIERS
1 Yuzuru HANYU JPN 15 15 30 (575.54)
2 Shoma UNO JPN 15 15 30 (553.70)
3 Nathan CHEN USA 15 15 30 (552.15)
4 Michal BREZINA CZE 13 13 26 (497.49)
5 Sergei VORONOV RUS 11 13 24 (480.72)
6 Junhwan CHA KOR 11 11 22 (497.96)
PLACE 7 - 9: SUBSTITUTE FOR THE ISU GRAND PRIX OF FIGURE SKATING FINAL
7 Keegan MESSING CAN 13 7 20 (485.92)
8 Alexander SAMARIN RUS 9 11 20 (495.87)
9 Matteo RIZZO ITA 9 11 20 (450.52)

GPF LADIES QUALIFIERS
1 Alina ZAGITOVA RUS 15 15 30 (438.24)
2 Rika KIHIRA JPN 15 15 30 (430.23)
3 Satoko MIYAHARA JPN 15 13 28 (439.18)
4 Elizaveta TUKTAMYSHEVA RUS 15 11 26 (422.34)
5 Kaori SAKAMOTO JPN 13 11 24 (411.32)
6 Sofia SAMODUROVA RUS 11 13 24 (396.71)
PLACE 7 - 9: SUBSTITUTE FOR THE ISU GRAND PRIX OF FIGURE SKATING FINAL
7 Mai MIHARA JPN 9 13 22 (407.01)
8 Stanislava KONSTANTINOVA RUS 13 7 20 (387.24)
9 Evgenia MEDVEDEVA RUS 11 9 20 (390.72)

GPF PAIRS QUALIFIERS
1 Vanessa JAMES / Morgan CIPRES FRA 15 15 30 (427.58)
2 Evgenia TARASOVA / Vladimir MOROZOV RUS 15 15 30 (425.10)
3 Natalia ZABIIAKO / Alexander ENBERT RUS 15 15 30 (412.65)
4 Cheng PENG / Yang JIN CHN 13 13 26 (408.32)
5 Nicole DELLA MONICA / Matteo GUARISE ITA 13 13 26 (389.60)
6 Daria PAVLIUCHENKO / Denis KHODYKIN RUS 11 11 22 (375.62)
PLACE 7 - 9: SUBSTITUTE FOR THE ISU GRAND PRIX OF FIGURE SKATING FINAL
7 Alisa EFIMOVA / Alexander KOROVIN RUS 13 7 20 (360.60)
8 Tarah KAYNE / Danny O'SHEA USA 7 13 20 (355.59)
9 Kirsten MOORE-TOWERS / Michael MARINARO CAN 11 9 20 (390.59)

GPF DANCE QUALIFIERS
1 Madison HUBBELL / Zachary DONOHUE USA 15 15 30 (401.58)
2 Alexandra STEPANOVA / Ivan BUKIN RUS 15 15 30 (399.52)
3 Victoria SINITSINA / Nikita KATSALAPOV RUS 13 13 26 (395.55)
4 Charlene GUIGNARD / Marco FABBRI ITA 13 13 26 (388.59)
5 Kaitlin HAWAYEK / Jean-Luc BAKER USA 15 9 24 (366.10)
6 Tiffani ZAGORSKI / Jonathan GUERREIRO RUS 11 13 24 (364.43)
PLACE 7 - 9: SUBSTITUTE FOR THE ISU GRAND PRIX OF FIGURE SKATING FINAL
7 Sara HURTADO / Kirill KHALIAVIN ESP 9 13 22 (346.51)
8 Piper GILLES / Paul POIRIER CAN 11 11 22 (375.71)
9 Lorraine MCNAMARA / Quinn CARPENTER USA 9 11 20 (357.23)

-----

Of all the skaters/teams with initial Grand Prix assignments as of June 28, the total withdrawals (before the competition, not during) were as follows:
5 Men / 7 slots
10 Ladies / 17 slots
7 Pairs / 10 slots
7 Dance teams / 9 slots

Skate America
Men: J. Hendrickx BEL
Ladies: Radionova RUS, Rajicova SVK
Pairs: Xiangning Li/Zhong Xie CHN (new), Yu/Zhang CHN
Dance: Min/Gamelin KOR (split)

Skate Canada International
Men: no WD
Ladies: Daleman CAN, Austman CAN, Choi KOR
Pairs: no WD
Dance: no WD

GP Helsinki
Men: J. Hendrickx BEL, Alexey Erokhov RUS
Ladies: Kostner ITA, Schott GER, Rajicova SVK, K. Chen USA
Pairs: Sui/Han CHN, Seguin/Bilodeau CAN (split)
Dance: Mansourova/Ceska CZE (status?), Cecilia Torn/Jussiville Partanen FIN, Chock/Bates USA

NHK Trophy
Men: no WD
Ladies: Daleman CAN, X. Li CHN, Choi KOR, Radionova RUS
Pairs: Sui/Han CHN, Annika Hocke/Ruben Blommaert GER
Dance: Papadakis/Cizeron FRA, Muramoto/Reed JPN (split)

Rostelecom Cup
Men: Maurizio Zandron ITA, Ten KAZ , Alexey Erokhov RUS
Ladies: Higuchi JPN, Schott GER, K. Chen USA
Pairs: no WD
Dance: Tina Garabedian/Simon Proulx-Senecal ARM (split), Muramoto/Reed JPN (split), Chock/Bates USA

Internationaux de France
Men: Besseghier FRA
Ladies: Kostner ITA
Pairs: Seguin/Bilodeau CAN (split), Yu/Zhang CHN, Esbrat/Novoselov FRA (split), Denney/Frazier USA
Dance: no WD

From post #1:

Copying out all the entries below... I tried to include the first names of all the skaters/teams who will be making their GP debuts.


Skate America, Oct. 19-21, 2018, Everett, Washington
MEN: N. Chen USA, J. Hendrickx BEL, Nguyen CAN, Brezina CZE, Ponsart FRA, Kvitelashvili GEO, Bychenko ISR, Matteo Rizzo ITA [WJC3], Julian Yee MAS, Voronov RUS, Zhou USA, TBD USA
LADIES: Miyahara JPN, Loena Hendrickx BEL, Lecavelier FRA, Honda JPN, Sakamoto JPN, Radionova RUS, Sofia Samodurova RUS, Tsurskaya RUS, Rajicova SVK, Tennell USA, Starr Andrews USA, TBD USA
PAIRS: Tarasova/Morozov RUS, Xiangning Li/Zhong Xie CHN (she's new to pairs), Yu/Zhang CHN, Annika Hocke/Ruben Blommaert GER, Efimova/Korovin RUS, Cain/LeDuc USA, Knierim/Knierim USA, TBD USA
DANCE: Hubbell/Donohue USA, Katharina Muller/Tim Dieck GER, Lilah Fear/Lewis Gibson GBR, Guignard/Fabbri ITA, Kaliszek/Spodyriev POL, Min/Gamelin KOR, Zagorski/Guerreiro RUS, Nazarova/Nikitin UKR, McNamara/Carpenter USA, TBD USA


Skate Canada International, Oct. 26-28, 2018, Laval, QC
MEN: Uno JPN, Messing CAN, Sadovsky CAN, TBD CAN, Kerry AUS, Aymoz FRA, Samohin ISR, Tomono JPN, JH Cha KOR, Samarin RUS, Majorov SWE, Brown USA
LADIES: Medvedeva RUS, Higuchi JPN, Daleman CAN, Austman CAN, Chartrand CAN, Matsuda JPN, Mako Yamashita JPN [WJC3], Tursynbaeva KAZ, Choi KOR, Daria Panenkova RUS, Tuktamysheva RUS, Bell USA
PAIRS: James/Cipres FRA, Ekaterina Alexandrovskaya/Harley Windsor AUS [JGPF1], Moore-Towers/Marinaro CAN, Ruest/Wolfe CAN, Evelyn Walsh/Trennt Michaud CAN, Peng/Jin CHN, Aleksandra Boikova/Dmitrii Kozlovskii RUS, Denney/Frazier USA
DANCE: Hubbell/Donohue USA, Gilles/Poirier CAN, Haley Sales/Nikolas Wamsteeker CAN, Soucisse/Firus CAN, Wang/Liu CHN, Lauriault/Le Gac FRA, Robynne Tweedale/Joseph Buckland GBR, Anastasia Skoptcova/Kirill Aleshin RUS [JGPF1/WJC1], Sinitsina/Katsalapov RUS, Smart/Diaz ESP


*FINLAND*, Nov. 2-4, 2018, Helsinki, FIN (venue will be the Helsinki Ice Hall)
MEN: Hanyu JPN, Jin CHN, TBD FIN, J. Hendrickx BEL, Brezina CZE, Phillip Harris GBR, Bychenko ISR, Tanaka JPN, Alexey Erokhov RUS, Kolyada RUS, Lazukin RUS, Alexei Krasnozhon USA [JGPF1]
LADIES: Zagitova RUS, Kostner ITA, Loena Hendrickx BEL, TBD FIN, Schott GER, Hongo JPN, Sakamoto JPN, Shiraiwa JPN, Stanislava Konstantinova RUS, Daria Panenkova RUS, Rajicova SVK, K. Chen USA
PAIRS: Sui/Han CHN, Ziegler/Kiefer AUT, Seguin/Bilodeau CAN, Tae Ok Ryom/Ju Sik Kim PRK, TBD FIN, Della Monica/Guarise ITA, Daria Pavliuchenko/Denis Khodykin RUS [WJC1], Zabiiako/Enbert RUS
DANCE: Mansourova/Ceska CZE, Cecilia Torn/Jussiville Partanen FIN, TBD FIN, Guignard/Fabbri ITA, Stepanova/Bukin RUS, Popova/Mozgov RUS, Sara Hurtado/Kirill Khaliavin ESP, Christina Carreira/Anthony Ponomarenko USA [WJC2], Chock/Bates USA, McNamara/Carpenter USA


NHK Trophy, Nov. 9-11, 2017, Hiroshima, Japan
MEN: Uno JPN, Reynolds CAN, Matteo Rizzo ITA [WJC3], H. Sato JPN, TBD JPN, J.H. Lee KOR, Aliev RUS, Voronov RUS, Yaroslav Paniot UKR, Alexander Johnson USA, Zhou USA
LADIES: Miyahara JPN, Daleman CAN, X. Li CHN (competing in 2 disciplines on GP!), Mihara JPN, TBD JPN, Choi KOR, Radionova RUS, Sotskova RUS, Tuktamysheva RUS, Bell USA, Hicks USA, Angela Wang USA (didn't get to finish GP debut in Bordeaux 3 years ago)
PAIRS: Sui/Han CHN, Moore-Towers/Marinaro CAN, Peng/Jin CHN, Annika Hocke/Ruben Blommaert GER, Suzaki/Kihara JPN, Zabiiako/Enbert RUS, Kayne/O'Shea USA, Knierim/Knierim USA
DANCE: Papadakis/Cizeron FRA, Soucisse/Firus CAN, Wang/Liu CHN, Komatsubara/Koleto JPN, Muramoto/Reed JPN, Anastasia Skoptcova/Kirill Aleshin RUS [JGPF1/WJC1], Zagorski/Guerreiro RUS, Nazarova/Nikitina UKR, Hawayek/Baker USA, Parsons/Parsons USA


Rostelecom Cup, Nov. 16-18, 2018, Moscow, Russia
MEN: Hanyu JPN, Kolyada RUS, Messing CAN, Kvitelashvili GEO, Fentz GER, Maurizio Zandron ITA, Tomono JPN, Ten KAZ, Dmitriev RUS, Alexey Erokhov RUS [WJC1], Majorov SWE, Alexei Krasnozhon USA [JGPF1]
LADIES: Zagitova RUS, Higuchi JPN, Schott GER, Matsuda JPN, Mako Yamashita JPN [WJC3], Tursynbaeva KAZ, Eunsoo Lim KOR, Tsurskaya RUS, TBD RUS, Alexia Paganini SUI, K. Chen USA, Gold USA
PAIRS: Tarasova/Morozov RUS, Ekaterina Alexandrovskaya/Harley Windsor AUS [JGPF1], Ziegler/Kiefer AUT, Della Monica/Guarise ITA, Efimova/Korovin RUS, Daria Pavliuchenko/Denis Khodykin RUS [WJC1], Cain/LeDuc USA, Stellato/Bartholomay USA
DANCE: Stepanova/Bukin RUS, Tina Garabedian/Simon Proulx-Senecal ARM (she's been listed on IPS as of 5/1/18), Anna Yanovskaya/Adam Lukacs HUN, Muramoto/Reed JPN, Kaliszek/Spodyriev POL, Evdokimova/Bazin RUS, TBD RUS, Sara Hurtado/Kirill Khaliavan ESP, Christina Carreira/Anthony Ponomarenko USA [WJC2], Chock/Bates


Internationaux de France, Nov. 23-25, 2018, Grenoble, France
MEN: N. Chen USA, Jin CHN, Nadeau CAN, Ponsart FRA, Besseghier FRA, TBD FRA, Samohin ISR, Tanaka JPN, Vasiljevs LAT, Aliev RUS, Samarin RUS, Brown USA
LADIES: Medvedeva RUS, Kostner ITA, Lecavelier FRA, Meite FRA, TBD FRA, Honda JPN, Rika Kihira JPN, Mihara JPN, Stanislava Konstantinova RUS, Sotskova RUS, Matilda Algotsson SWE, Tennell USA
PAIRS: James/Cipres FRA, Seguin/Bilodeau CAN, Yu/Zhang CHN, Tae Ok Ryom/Ju Sik Kim PRK, Esbrat/Novoselov FRA, Aleksandra Boikova/Dmitrii Kozlovskii RUS, Denney/Frazier USA, Kayne/O'Shea USA
DANCE: Papadakis/Cizeron FRA, Gilles/Poirier CAN, Lauriault/Le Gac FRA, TBD FRA, Allison Reed/Saulius Ambrulevicius LTU, Popova/Mozgov RUS, Sinitsina/Katsalapov RUS, Smart/Diaz ESP, Hawayek/Baker USA, Parsons/Parsons USA

 

[minuet]

Considering none of Canada's top skaters of the last decade or so are competing this year, I think that Keegan being first alternate is a huge accomplishment, especially since before this season he'd never placed higher than 5th at a GP event. His 7th place in the overall rankings is also the highest GP series ranking of any non-Chan Canadian male since 05/06 (that year we had 2 men actually qualify for the GPF).

Another positive is that despite being 3rd alternates, MT-M have had their best GP season to date (3rd and 4th). The 'disappointment' IMO is that Gilles/Poirier are only second alternates.

I also feel like the fields were really unbalanced this year partly due to retirements/breaks and partly due to withdrawals. For G&P, they were in 2 of more deep fields on the GP, especially compared to Rostelecom and NHK. If you look at their totals they should be right in there. I feel M-T&M also ended up in 2 of the deeper fields. But that's the way it goes sometimes.

 

[her grace]

For posterity, the lucky subs who made it off the top-75 SB alternate list

Men
25 Cha FIN (and made the GP final thanks to getting a second assignment); 29 Reynolds SA; 33 Kerry RC; 47 Lazukin RC (replacing host pick); 50 Yee RC

Ladies
26 Shiraiwa RC; 30 Leonova NHK; 34 Lim NHK; 39 Wang FIN; 46 Kim FIN; 52 Andrews SC; 54 Chartrand SA; 55 Meite NHK; 59 Craine NHK; 66 Paganini IDF; 72 Peltonen FIN (belated host pick replacing non-host athlete); 88 Pineault SC (replaced host pick); no 17-18 SB score Mallet SC (replaced host pick, but then she had to withdraw too)

Pairs
27 Stellato/Bartholomay FIN; 33 Ruest/Wolfe IDF; 35 Hase/Seegert SA & IDF; 41 Lu/Mitrofanov NHK & IDF; 42 Walsh/Michaud SA; 44 Suzaki/Kihara FIN; 47 Barquero/Maestu FIN & NHK

Dance
36 Fear/Gibson NHK; 39 Muller/Dieck FIN; 43 Reed/Ambrulevicius RC; 46 Tweedale/Buckland SA; 51 Koch/Nuchtern FIN; 58 Komatsubara/Koleto RC; 69 Tessari/Fioretti FIN

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Canada is sending Gogolev and Lajoie & Lagha.

USA is sending Pulkinen, Hiwatashi, Nguyen & Kolesnik, and Feng & Nyman along with three senior entries.

I'm quite looking forward to the junior events as much as the senior ones. Especially the junior men's event in which 5 of my favorites qualified.

Obviously I was talking seniors.

 

[haribobo]

As SB scores stand now...looking to next season's GP

MEN
Sub out-
Kevin Reynolds (60), Hiroaki Sato (72), Alex Johnson (58), Valter Virtanen (84), JHLee (70), Yaroslav Paniot (92), Philip Harris (80)
Sub in-
Camden Pulkinen (28-aging out), Maxim Kovtun (TBD), Tomoki Hiwatashi (36-aging out), Daniel Grassl (18). Add maybe 1 assignment- Erokhov 37, Dolensky 44, Toman 45, Orzel 39, Savosin 40 (aging out), Britschgi 48.

Not sure which of Sumoto 43, Shimada 32, Gumennik 34, Fa 51, Phan 46 will move to seniors.

LADIES
Sub out-
Yura Matsuda (69), Rika Hongo (73), Daria Panenkova (54), Polina Tsurskaya (68), Elena Radionova (X), Hanul Kim (65), Matilda Algotsson (90), Lea Serna (82), Angela Wang (62), Gracie Gold (X)

Sub in-
Trusova 3, Scherbakova 9, Kostornaia 12, Tarusina 16, Yokoi 28, Yelim Kim 19, Yi Christy Leung 38, maybe Young You 29, Ashley Lin 33, Ting Cui 46, and whoever of FRA, CHN, CAN does well later in the season

PAIRS
Add in- whichever CHN teams recover, Ghilardi/Ambrosini, Feng/Nyman, Calalang/Johnson, Mishina/Galiamov, Kostiukovich/Ialin, Akhanteva/Kolesov, Panfilova/Rylov, TBA spots for JPN, USA, CAN maybe different from above

 

[Jayar]

A country can send a total of 18 entries to a given discipline on the GP, and it's a good bet that a country like Russia, per se, would want to limit those entries to 9 ladies so that they maximize the likelihood of GPF entries. If things do not change, the following ladies could get selected from Russia (based on season's ranking): Zagitova, Trusova, Tuktamysheva, Shcherbakova, Medvedeva, Tarusina, Samodurova, Konstantinova, and Leonova. For Japan, it could be Kihira, Miyahara, Sakamoto, Mihara, Yamashita, Shiraiwa, Honda, and (probably) Higuchi. If the countries wanted to play politics, they could start selecting outside of those to minimize the number of opportunities to earn spots in the GPF. For example, if Zagitova, Tuktamysheva, and Medvedeva make the Worlds team and earn two spots for next season, the GP nations could spread the wealth outside of the other six ladies I listed above so that they only have one shot to earn points. They could also select Taraknakova, Sotskova, Sakhanovich, Panenkova, etc. It could start getting messy. Someone could, in theory, make the final with 14 points. And with all of this, I wonder when country swapping is going to start moving into full effect for Russia as skaters like Sotskova and Sakhanovich will start seeing their careers die before they get a chance to lift off. I predict that next season we will see an exodus that could ultimately end up having 7 Russians and 3 Japanese ladies in the top 10 at the WC.

 

[Dobre]

I'll be a bit surprised if all the top Russian junior girls (Trusova, Kostornaia, Scherbakova) move up next season. It seems like often Russia likes to spread out the emergence of their contenders onto the senior scene. Sakamoto, Honda, and Shiraiwa all moved up during the same season, though, so it could certainly happen.

 

[Tinami Amori]

And with all of this, I wonder when country swapping is going to start moving into full effect for Russia as skaters like Sotskova and Sakhanovich will start seeing their careers die before they get a chance to lift off. I predict that next season we will see an exodus that could ultimately end up having 7 Russians and 3 Japanese ladies in the top 10 at the WC.

I think you left out Kostornaya out the "top list", but maybe i just don't understand your selection method.
- Sotskova is now a full time student at the University, and announced that her education is a priority. she will not switch countries.
- Sakhanovich will not leave St. Petersburg. She was not let go from Eteri's group in Moscow. It was her choice to move back to St. Pete because her father lost his job, their apartment in Moscow was robbed 2x (once at gun point) and St. Pete is were she wanted to be. It was a tearful parting from Sambo-70, love and hugs and all.. Then she tried Plushenko's Academy, but went back to St. Pete again. She had an option of skating for Israel, and did not take it. Switching towns, let alone a country, is not an option for her.

I'll be a bit surprised if all the top Russian junior girls (Trusova, Kostornaia, Scherbakova) move up next season. It seems like often Russia likes to spread out the emergence of their contenders onto the senior scene.

Until recently i thought tat Scherbakova is the youngest one of the 3, and might stay behind. But they cleared it for me on one of the russian chats, that Shcherbakova is older than Trusova by 3.5 months. So she may not want to stay in Jrs. given she has a quad.

There is the next Jr. group ready at Eteri's club for next year: Akatieva, Valieeva, Usacheva.

 

[Jayar]

I think you left out Kostornaya out the "top list", but maybe i just don't understand your selection method.
- Sotskova is now a full time student at the University, and announced that her education is a priority. she will not switch countries.
- Sakhanovich will not leave St. Petersburg. She was not let go from Eteri's group in Moscow. It was her choice to move back to St. Pete because her father lost his job, their apartment in Moscow was robbed 2x (once at gun point) and St. Pete is were she wanted to be. It was a tearful parting from Sambo-70, love and hugs and all.. Then she tried Plushenko's Academy, but went back to St. Pete again. She had an option of skating for Israel, and did not take it. Switching towns, let alone a country, is not an option for her.


Until recently i thought tat Scherbakova is the youngest one of the 3, and might stay behind. But they cleared it for me on one of the russian chats, that Shcherbakova is older than Trusova by 3.5 months. So she may not want to stay in Jrs. given she has a quad.

There is the next Jr. group ready at Eteri's club for next year: Akatieva, Valieeva, Usacheva.

Tinami-- I am just illustrating two points (not arguing with you):

(1) Selection manipulation could start to hurt Russian ladies as there are so many on the season's best, there is no requirement to give 9 athletes two spots each. It could be a way for other nations to get their skaters into the GPF, and

(2) Because things are so competitive, Russian ladies who score 190-200 may not even get on the GP. If they can't get on the GP, they likely have a rough road ahead of them at their own championships. I could imagine that some of these ladies would be more ambitious than competing on the Challenger Series and Russian nationals. I could see an exodus soon. I am not saying that it WILL happen. I am saying that it is possible. If there is a pathway to countries like Latvia, Belarus, Ukraine, Azerbaijan, Israel, Uzbekistan, etc., it wouldn't be the worst thing to consider. And if that happens, the WCs could conceivably be Russian ladies (competing for Russia and other countries) and Japanese ladies.

(And my math was wrong on calculating Kostornaya's age... I thought she would only be 14 next year.)

 

[Tinami Amori]

Tinami-- I am just illustrating two points (not arguing with you):

(1) Selection manipulation could start to hurt Russian ladies as there are so many on the season's best, there is no requirement to give 9 athletes two spots each. It could be a way for other nations to get their skaters into the GPF, and

(2) Because things are so competitive, Russian ladies who score 190-200 may not even get on the GP. If they can't get on the GP, they likely have a rough road ahead of them at their own championships. I could imagine that some of these ladies would be more ambitious than competing on the Challenger Series and Russian nationals. I could see an exodus soon. I am not saying that it WILL happen. I am saying that it is possible. If there is a pathway to countries like Latvia, Belarus, Ukraine, Azerbaijan, Israel, Uzbekistan, etc., it wouldn't be the worst thing to consider. And if that happens, the WCs could conceivably be Russian ladies (competing for Russia and other countries) and Japanese ladies.

(And my math was wrong on calculating Kostornaya's age... I thought she would only be 14 next year.)

Oh, no, i don't take your reply as "argument". Of course it is always possible for these ladies to skate for another "near by" country. But from what i've read/observed in some of their situations, it does not seem very likely that the girls you listed would consider it, although who knows... it's been done.

 

[Maximillian]

Oh, no, i don't take your reply as "argument". Of course it is always possible for these ladies to skate for another "near by" country. But from what i've read/observed in some of their situations, it does not seem very likely that the girls you listed would consider it, although who knows... it's been done.

It has been done, but very rarely too successfully, at least in the ladies event. It doesn't do wonders for a skaters reputation with judges to know that they 'couldn't cut it in Russia', so country hopped to Azerbaijan (or wherever, Belarus, e.g. Soldatova) in order to compete. And while I'm not suggesting that the Russian ladies haven't deserved all their success, there is something to be said for the political momentum that goes with representing Russia (or Japan) that a lady just won't get competing for a smaller Russian adjacent state. I think that while the opportunity to compete is a definite benefit, there is more to be lost than meets the eye when a lady from a powerful skating nation, country hops.

 

[Rhino]

^^^ The interesting one’s going to be Ekaterina Kurakova who’s moved from Russia to Poland and is a top prospect – indeed there’s footage of her doing a quad-3T in practice from January this year – she’ll be eligible to skate for Poland from January next year, or so I believe.

However going forward the only really answer is for the ISU to increase the number of GPs and/or entries at each one. For example you’re starting to get skaters not even qualifying for Nationals with domestic scores in excess of 200 (about 190 Internationally – 5% is a good rule of thumb).

E.g. Elizaveta Nugumanova is 1st reserve for Nationals with Russian Cup scores of 200 and 196, Maria Talaylaykina is last one in (unless she gets subbed out for Anna Pogorilaya) with 202 and 198, Vicktoria Vasilieva is 3rd reserve with 203 and 192, and the first 2 of these haven’t even had any sort of international assignment this season.

Then you’ve got Russian skaters turning up at CS’s and Other B’s and just demolishing the opposition e.g. Anastasia Gulyakova (3 domestic scores of 210 this season) had a bad skate for her at the Warsaw Cup last week but still won by 28 points from Kailani Craine, while Anna Tarusina was 33 points ahead of the leading non-Russian at Inge Solar. It’s even worse when you look at some of the junior, non-JGP events.

So, unless you start to increase the number of slots/GPs it’s only going to get worse, plus it’s even starting to effect non-Russian/Japanese skaters as well.

For example Russia and Japan are now getting 36 of the 72 spots available every year, so if you’re from a non-GP country it’s starting to get really difficult to get spots - I estimate that the cut-off for invites next season will be somewhere in the mid to high 170’s which is a pretty decent score really.

But if you don’t increase the number of GPs/entries all you’re going to get is more of the same, with 190 and even 200 class international skaters turning up at CS’s and Other B’s which isn’t doing anyone any good at all (other than maybe the opposition seeing what they really need to aspire to).

 

[RoseRed]

^^^ The interesting one’s going to be Ekaterina Kurakova who’s moved from Russia to Poland and is a top prospect – indeed there’s footage of her doing a quad-3T in practice from January this year – she’ll be eligible to skate for Poland from January next year, or so I believe.

However going forward the only really answer is for the ISU to increase the number of GPs and/or entries at each one. You’re starting to get skaters not even qualifying for Nationals with domestic scores in excess of 200 (about 190 Internationally – 5% is a good rule of thumb).

For example Elizaveta Nugumanova is 1st reserve for Nationals with Russian Cup scores of 200 and 196, Maria Talaylaykina is last one in (unless she gets subbed out for Anna Pogorilaya) with 202 and 198, Vicktoria Vasilieva is 3rd reserve with 203 and 192, and the first 2 of these haven’t even had any sort of international assignment this season.

Then you’ve got Russian skaters turning up at CS’s and Other B’s and just demolishing the opposition e.g. Anastasia Gulyakova (3 domestic scores of 210 this season) had a bad skate for her at the Warsaw Cup last week but still won by 28 points from Kailani Craine, while Anna Tarusina was 33 points ahead of the leading non-Russian at Inge Solar. It’s even worse when you look at some of the junior, non-JGP events.

So, unless you start to increase the number of slots/GPs it’s only going to get worse, plus it’s even starting to effect non-Russian/Japanese skaters as well.

For example Russia and Japan are now getting 36 of the 72 spots available every year, so if you’re from a non-GP country it’s starting to get really difficult to get spots - I estimate that the cut-off for invites next season will be somewhere in the mid to high 170’s which is a pretty decent score really.

But if you don’t increase the number of GPs/entries all you’re going to get is more of the same, with 190 and even 200 class international skaters turning up at CS’s and Other B’s which isn’t doing anyone any good at all (other than maybe the opposition seeing what they really need to aspire to).

Increasing the number of GP slots isn't going to solve Russia's Nationals issue at all. That's completely in their control to add another warm up group.

 

[Rhino]

Increasing the number of GP slots isn't going to solve Russia's Nationals issue at all. That's completely in their control to add another warm up group.

Oh absolutely. It's the knock on effect on CS's and other 'B's where you look at the entry list and you know the result is a foregone conclusion. It's trying to get 190/200 skaters to skate with skaters of a similar ability, while hopefully at the same time increase opportunities for skaters from smaller countries to skate on GPs as well.

 

[Tinami Amori]

It has been done, but very rarely too successfully, at least in the ladies event. It doesn't do wonders for a skaters reputation with judges to know that they 'couldn't cut it in Russia', so country hopped to Azerbaijan (or wherever, Belarus, e.g. Soldatova) in order to compete.

And while I'm not suggesting that the Russian ladies haven't deserved all their success, there is something to be said for the political momentum that goes with representing Russia (or Japan) that a lady just won't get competing for a smaller Russian adjacent state. I think that while the opportunity to compete is a definite benefit, there is more to be lost than meets the eye when a lady from a powerful skating nation, country hops.

I absolutely agree. People may not say it, but many understand that when there is a choice to become a big bird in small forest vs. small bird in big forest, and one elects to be #1 in a less competitive environment, it is in some cases taking an easy road.

I've noticed that skaters like Navka, Volosozhar, Kawaguchi, Tiff/John, who went into the eye of a storm, and switched to skate for Russia to compete in one of the toughest environment with world's best, did and are doing very well, in Russia and Internationally.

Then there are "had no choice" stories, like Anissina, Savchenko, when great talents had no other options, but then again the transfers were to France and Germany, with strong federations and results reputations as well. I believe part of their success, besides tremendous talents and hard work, is a degree of recognition from the skating community that these people took the hardest road possible.

Then there are few skaters born in Russia who want to "regain ethnic identity". Few who went to skate for Israel, Kazhakhstan, Georgia, Armenia... I think people-in-skating accept this reason for a switch much better, than "big bird in small woods", as it has some human basis for it and not a trick.

Then there are those who think that they will never make the national team (in Russia, USA, Canada, France, etc.) and desperately seek "small woods Federations" who take and finance them. I don't recall any such skaters reaching the top.

I can't think of any Russian skaters in the last 15-20 years, who were B-level in Russia, yet became A-level outside of Russia, especially in "former Soviet Republics".

For me the question is why would one want to skate for "small woods Federation" if one can't medal and make the team in his/her own country? The same top skaters from his/her own federation + few more from other federations will still beat the "switcher" in competitions.. Of course some say that at least the skaters gets to skate internationally, but then why would small federations want this skater if it is only "an expense, and no medals".. Opportunity to compete is a goal for some, but if they know they will not cut it with the top skaters, they should consider paying for their own skating and not by "small woods Federations".

 

[missing]

For me the question is why would one want to skate for "small woods Federation" if one can't medal and make the team in his/her own country? The same top skaters from his/her own federation + few more from other federations will still beat the "switcher" in competitions.. Of course some say that at least the skaters gets to skate internationally, but then why would small federations want this skater if it is only "an expense, and no medals".. Opportunity to compete is a goal for some, but if they know they will not cut it with the top skaters, they should consider paying for their own skating and not by "small woods Federations".

I don't know who pays for Alexia Paganini's skating, but I can certainly understand why an ambitious and reasonably talented young skater, surrounded in her country by other ambitious and reasonably talented young skaters, could decide to compete for a country that would send her to Worlds and the Olympics, rather than sticking with her birthplace country where she'd have much less likelihood of success at that level.

 

[rinettoii]

I don't know who pays for Alexia Paganini's skating, but I can certainly understand why an ambitious and reasonably talented young skater, surrounded in her country by other ambitious and reasonably talented young skaters, could decide to compete for a country that would send her to Worlds and the Olympics, rather than sticking with her birthplace country where she'd have much less likelihood of success at that level.

I actually think USFS made a big mistake by releasing her because she'd actually be a really promising junior-senior skater for the USA right now (I would say better than Starr Andrews), not that she wouldn't be able to carry herself representing SUI. But good for her that she was able to qualify for the Olympics.

 

[Sylvia]

For me the question is why would one want to skate for "small woods Federation" if one can't medal and make the team in his/her own country? The same top skaters from his/her own federation + few more from other federations will still beat the "switcher" in competitions.. Of course some say that at least the skaters gets to skate internationally, but then why would small federations want this skater if it is only "an expense, and no medals".. Opportunity to compete is a goal for some, but if they know they will not cut it with the top skaters, they should consider paying for their own skating and not by "small woods Federations".

It's been pointed out here before that many smaller federations can't afford to support their skaters financially much, if at all, compared to the larger feds.

Nicole Rajic/Rajicova recently moved to Slovakia (where she has extended family and speaks the language fluently) from the USA. IMO, she is a great example of someone who has flourished and improved as a skater after she switched to represent her parents' native country following 2011 U.S. Nationals (12th in Junior). She has competed in two Olympics and placed 6th at the past 2 European Championships. She even had two initial Grand Prix assignments this season before giving them up (not sure if she is still planning to compete?).

 

[Tinami Amori]

I don't know who pays for Alexia Paganini's skating, but I can certainly understand why an ambitious and reasonably talented young skater, surrounded in her country by other ambitious and reasonably talented young skaters, could decide to compete for a country that would send her to Worlds and the Olympics, rather than sticking with her birthplace country where she'd have much less likelihood of success at that level.

Because even if she leaves USA Federation and skates for another country, at the worlds and olympics she still will have to skate against Tennell and Bell (or other ladies who are beating her at US Nationals), and she will loose to them Internationally, just like she did at Nationals.

... and here is another point, which i suspect some people will not agree with, and lets not pick on Alexia, but make it "general". If a US girl picks to skate for "obscure country A", and she is not as good as top US skaters, but better than "obscure country A" skaters, then she is taking away the chances from the girls born in that country. If there are circumstances where the whole family immigrates to "obscure country A" for political, employment, escaping various forms of disaster, then it is one thing. But one switched countries strictly for convenience of skating, then it is not fair to local skaters born there.

 

[rinettoii]

Because even if she leaves USA Federation and skates for another country, at the worlds and olympics she still will have to skate against Tennell and Bell (or other ladies who are beating her at US Nationals), and she will loose to them Internationally, just like she did at Nationals.

... and here is another point, which i suspect some people will not agree with, and lets not pick on Alexia, but make it "general". If a US girl picks to skate for "obscure country A", and she is not as good as top US skaters, but better than "obscure country A" skaters, then she is taking away the chances from the girls born in that country. If there are circumstances where the whole family immigrates to "obscure country A" for political, employment, escaping various forms of disaster, then it is one thing. But one switched countries strictly for convenience of skating, then it is not fair to local skaters born there.

That's unfortunately very unfair, but if you think about it from a federation's perspective, they'll gladly take anyone eligible for citizenship to compete internationally for that country. On the bright side, it might inspire younger skaters to work hard if they have a skating role model in his or her country, which will further expand the sport in that country. Perhaps there might be a young skater born in that country that becomes internationally competitive, and then the GP is populated by skaters from multiple countries!

 

[Sylvia]

It's up to each federation to decide which skaters they want to represent them internationally. Ireland decided from the beginning that their goal is to develop their own skaters from the grassroots level - to them!

 

[missing]

Because even if she leaves USA Federation and skates for another country, at the worlds and olympics she still will have to skate against Tennell and Bell (or other ladies who are beating her at US Nationals), and she will loose to them Internationally, just like she did at Nationals.

... and here is another point, which i suspect some people will not agree with, and lets not pick on Alexia, but make it "general". If a US girl picks to skate for "obscure country A", and she is not as good as top US skaters, but better than "obscure country A" skaters, then she is taking away the chances from the girls born in that country. If there are circumstances where the whole family immigrates to "obscure country A" for political, employment, escaping various forms of disaster, then it is one thing. But one switched countries strictly for convenience of skating, then it is not fair to local skaters born there.

But is it fair to a young gifted skater to be born in a country filled with other young gifted skaters?

I love watching skaters, but I am aware there's nothing fair about who has the opportunity to succeed and who doesn't.

 

[vesperholly]

I actually think USFS made a big mistake by releasing her because she'd actually be a really promising junior-senior skater for the USA right now (I would say better than Starr Andrews), not that she wouldn't be able to carry herself representing SUI. But good for her that she was able to qualify for the Olympics.

There's no way to know how Paganini would have progressed had she continued to represent the US. Perhaps being exposed to GP/World/Olympic level competition helped push her skills along.

 

[Coco]

If a US girl picks to skate for "obscure country A", and she is not as good as top US skaters, but better than "obscure country A" skaters, then she is taking away the chances from the girls born in that country. But one switched countries strictly for convenience of skating, then it is not fair to local skaters born there.

Until she earns them spots they wouldn't otherwise have...

 

[Tinami Amori]

Until she earns them spots they wouldn't otherwise have...

That's reasonable, but then the condition for taking on a foreign skater as your own, would require a level of skating that would guarantee the new country at least 2 spots (vs. the given one). Fair enough...

 

[maatTheViking]

Then there are those who think that they will never make the national team (in Russia, USA, Canada, France, etc.) and desperately seek "small woods Federations" who take and finance them. I don't recall any such skaters reaching the top.

I think it’s a little more complex. Small federations just don’t have the same influence. I’m not sure it’s solely based on a skaters skill.

I’m going to be curious how Fournier Beaudry / Sørensen is going to score, now that they are skating for Canada, for instance.

It’s not just about the money - given FB/S training situation it’s clear they have had money available - but about the federations general influence.

Honestly, if you have a good connection with a country, I don’t see anything wrong in switching to get a bit more assignments. If my kids ever wanted to compete in any sports, they’d go up through the lower levels in the US as we live here - but if they ever got good enough to compete internationally? It would be a serious consideration if they should compete for Denmark (for most sports).

That said, I cannot recommend ‘As Good As Gold’ enough - it’s not easy even if you switch nations. And along with that, I think the Ikarus documentary has some interesting insights into how elite sports work.

 

[Orm Irian]

I don't know who pays for Alexia Paganini's skating, but I can certainly understand why an ambitious and reasonably talented young skater, surrounded in her country by other ambitious and reasonably talented young skaters, could decide to compete for a country that would send her to Worlds and the Olympics, rather than sticking with her birthplace country where she'd have much less likelihood of success at that level.

She funds herself, like all Swiss skaters do. The Swiss Federation only covers the cost of travel to/from and accommodation for a certain number of competitions per season (excluding JGP events and ISU Championships, which are also covered but don't count toward that limit). There may be some extra funding available from the country's Olympic committee if she's been awarded an Olympic Talent Card, but that's a separate body.

It's worth pointing out, though, that per their own statement when they announced her acceptance, the only reason the Swiss Federation even considered Paganini's application to transfer, let alone accepted it, is that she's been a Swiss citizen since the day she was born. They've had other applications from singles skaters who wanted to change citizenships and knocked them back as a matter of policy. So some small Federations do care to protect the opportunities and work of their lowly locals against big fed kids looking for alternative ways of getting to the big competitions.

 

[Carolla5501]

So here's my "stupid question of the day". Why are there SO many more entries at the Junior Grand Prix events then the Senior? Do the hosts not pay for skaters travel/lodging at Junior Grand Prix so they are willing to have more skaters?

 

[Sylvia]

So here's my "stupid question of the day". Why are there SO many more entries at the Junior Grand Prix events then the Senior? Do the hosts not pay for skaters travel/lodging at Junior Grand Prix so they are willing to have more skaters?

Correct. The number of skaters each federation can send is based on the countries' placements at the previous Junior Worlds and many of the smaller federations cannot pay for their skaters' expenses. Also, there is no minimum TES requirement to enter a JGP... its purpose is developmental.