ISU Grand Prix Assignments 2017/18 Olympic season

[chameleonster]

Getting Australia into the team event won't do much if they fail to qualify themselves because they split their attention too much.

There are other ways to get ranking points. Do a bunch of challengers and senior Bs, which if they do well in would help their case for getting a GP spot if one opens up.

 

[Marco]

Can they still do JGPs after committing to Nebelhorn? Both in terms of timing and in terms of some rule that says you can't go back to Jr once you have turned Sr?

 

[misskarne]

Now Im rethinking it... I say go in and win your JGP events (because they probably won't finish any higher than 7th at a GP event with that current competition) get the points hopefully to get Australia into Team Event at Olys...

These kids are young and have energy galore.. I say they can wing it again doing Jr and Sr.

The pairs JGP events:
JGP Latvia (Sep 4-10)
JGP Belarus (Sep 18-24)
JGP Croatia (Sep 25-Oct 1)
JGP Poland (Oct 2-8)

Nebelhorn: Sep 27-30

See how tight that is? It clashes with JGP Croatia, and is only the week after JGP Belarus and the week before JGP Poland. Considering Nebelhorn is their one and only shot at qualifying for the Olympics, it probably isn't the greatest idea to be cramming in Junior events that close.

 

[misskarne]

Can they still do JGPs after committing to Nebelhorn? Both in terms of timing and in terms of some rule that says you can't go back to Jr once you have turned Sr?

Yes, last year they did JGP and Finlandia, as well as 4CC, Jr Worlds and Sr Worlds.

 

[kwanfan1818]

There are other ways to get ranking points. Do a bunch of challengers and senior Bs, which if they do well in would help their case for getting a GP spot if one opens up.

Those events aren't used to qualify for the TE. Worlds, GP, and GPF are the the primary ways, and Euros/4C's, Jr. Worlds, and JGP are secondary ways, if they didn't have competitors at Worlds, and GP or GPF.

So, for example, Russian federation picks a skater first since Rostelecom Cup is the first GPS event, and then there is a draw for the other 5 countries to decide who gets to choose (invite) a skater next?

No, the hosts draw for selection order separate from the order of events. The hosts make their host picks, independent of the draw. Let's say for the moment that the WC or podium make their preferences known, and the hosts can honor these choices without having more than one skater in the 1-3 group, is, not superceding the hosts choices, and not forcing the bronze medalist to do back-to-back competitions on different continents.

Then comes the 4-6 group. The Fed that draws first picks someone from the group, unless they already have a host pick from that group, in which case they skip that round. Then the second, third, fourth, and fifth hosts choose the remaining skaters in the 1-4 group. The sixth host gets who's left, unless it would be a 4th host skater, or, I suppose, back-to-back on different continents. Then through each subgroup until all the spots are filled.

There's a separate host selection order draw for each discipline. USA night draw 1st for Ladies, 3rd for Men, 5th for Pairs, and 2nd for Dance.

Can they still do JGPs after committing to Nebelhorn? Both in terms of timing and in terms of some rule that says you can't go back to Jr once you have turned Sr?

As long as the skaters are age-eligible, the only things they can't do are:

• Compete in GP and JGP in the same season
• Compete at championships for which they haven't gotten TES minimums for that age group.

 

[YukiNieve]

No, the hosts draw for selection order separate from the order of events. The hosts make their host picks, independent of the draw. Let's say for the moment that the WC or podium make their preferences known, and the hosts can honor these choices without having more than one skater in the 1-3 group, is, not superceding the hosts choices, and not forcing the bronze medalist to do back-to-back competitions on different continents.

Then comes the 4-6 group. The Fed that draws first picks someone from the group, unless they already have a host pick from that group, in which case they skip that round. Then the second, third, fourth, and fifth hosts choose the remaining skaters in the 1-4 group. The sixth host gets who's left, unless it would be a 4th host skater, or, I suppose, back-to-back on different continents. Then through each subgroup until all the spots are filled.

Thank you! Wow, this sounds very complex.

So, for example, as for the case of Hanyu, it is probably safe to say that he was a host pick by Japan.
Then the fact that he was chosen by Russia for 2nd assignment while his team usually seemed to have preferred Canada in the past indicates that either team Hanyu wished Russia this time or Russia had an earlier position in the draw, I guess?

 

[kwanfan1818]

Then the fact that he was chosen by Russia for 2nd assignment while his team usually seemed to have preferred Canada in the past indicates that either team Hanyu wished Russia this time or Russia had an earlier position in the draw, I guess?

If he didn't really want Russia, then his preference as WC wasn't taken into consideration, either by the Japanese Fed trying to get the best for Hanyu and Uno, since China was out, (Jin) or by the other hosts.

Perhaps this year, his team wanted to start early and keep at least three weeks between his events for training reasons, whereas this year, it would be Canada, a week off, then Japan, since NHK is fourth instead of last.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Also, the hosts don't do this in isolation, so I'm guessing there is everything from outright deals to logistics, like keeping the coaches' students together where possible and having younger skaters traveling with more experienced skaters, including across disciplines. I got to see Arakawa at TEB in 2005 because her "job" that year was watching out for Mao Asada, at least according to an interview from the time.

 

[Dobre]

It's plausible that there will not be a full slate of teams that qualify in three disciplines. If Australia can meet this first criteria, the points may not matter. (The flip side of this is that if Australia cannot qualify in three disciplines & neither can anyone else, we don't seem to have clarification on whether the top point-earners will then qualify into the event. Or not). Either way, A&W have to do their best at Nebelhorn.

Does this year's 4CCs count for team points? A&W can always go there. They have no huge Olympic medal hopes to lose by going. A good chunk of the field will probably be gone. And 4CCs is a major international so if it is applicable this year, it is worth a lot of points.

 

[misskarne]

Does this year's 4CCs count for team points? A&W can always go there. They have no huge Olympic medal hopes to lose by going. A good chunk of the field will probably be gone. And 4CCs is a major international so if it is applicable this year, it is worth a lot of points.

No. Cutoff for Team Event stuff is end of December. 4CC won't count.

One of our closest rivals are the Czechs; as I've said before, the ISU just dished them up a massive free kick on a silver platter. Brendan is going to have to take down Brezina at every opportunity (doable, but difficult) to try and make the difference and it may not be enough.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

One of our closest rivals are the Czechs

First I think that Czech pairs team is crazzzzyyyy good. But I think the Aussies will get more points on JGP than what the Czechs will get on Senior GP

Brezina only has 1 GP assignment this season and the way they have been performing I could easily see Kerry getting more points for his 1 event than Brezina will...

So, who knows, but will be way interesting....

Isn't Israel the bigger threat tho??? And also Korea? Do you think Italy will be in?

 

[misskarne]

First I think that Czech pairs team is crazzzzyyyy good. But I think the Aussies will get more points on JGP than what the Czechs will get on Senior GP

Did you read the article? Katia and Harley are going Senior. No JGP for them and it would be a terrible idea anyway because of the JGP scheduling and Nebelhorn scheduling.

Isn't Israel the bigger threat tho??? And also Korea? Do you think Italy will be in?

Unlikely that Israel will have a lady. Korea could be a problem, especially since they get freebie slots. Italy might beat us out too. This is why I'm so pissed off at everyone else getting a free kick!

 

[YukiNieve]

Thanks, kwanfan1818!

 

[kwanfan1818]

Unlikely that Israel will have a lady. Korea could be a problem, especially since they get freebie slots. Italy might beat us out too. This is why I'm so pissed off at everyone else getting a free kick!

Italy will almost certainly be one of the top eight teams in total points, along with RUS, CAN, USA, CHN, FRA, GER, and JPN. They've got Kostner, Cappellini/Lanote, and Marchei/Hotarek. Japan needs to qualify either Pairs or Dance to be eligible; the other seven have already qualified in three or four.

Korea can't use the freebies to qualify for the team event, according to the original detailed document referred to in ISU Communication 2093. They have to qualify at least three in the individual events between Helsinki and Nebelhorn to be considered for the TE. They have decent chances to qualify on their own in Men and Dance, assuming they're willing to throw citizenship at it, and they've already qualified in Ladies.

Also, Communication 2093 states:

D. Host Country entries In accordance with Rule 400, in case the Host ISU Member went through the normal qualifying procedure and did not qualify under Rule 400 paragraphs 3 or 4 in any of the disciplines (Ladies, Men, Pair Skating, Ice Dance), the Host ISU Member shall have the right to enter one (1) Competitor per concerned discipline(s) as additional entry(ies) as long as the concerned Skater(s)/Pair/Couple achieved the Minimum Total Elements Score (points) for the Olympic Winter Games and places are available from the additional Athletes Quota.

The ISU has not removed this constraint.

It may be tricky for Korea if they don't qualify for any at Nebelhorn. Italy might need to use one for Men, Japan might need a Pair, and you never know which Lorenz/Polizoakis will show up. On the other hand, there's a chance that only nine teams will qualify by having earned individual spots in at least three disciplines, and the most Korea would need is five spots, if everything goes wrong for them.

 

[PRlady]

Israel almost certainly won't have a qualifying lady, and Dance depends on Tkachenko finding a Jewish grandparent, right? Also, who the heck is Krasnapolski skating with now, and do they have minimums?

I'd like to see both Australia and the Czechs in the team event, to the extent that I care about the team event at all....

 

[altai_rose]

I would hesitate before jumping to that conclusion. The 5 teams that @kwanfan1818 mentioned above, who got 2 non-home country slots, are all substantially higher than A/W on the seasons-best list. Therefore, I don't see how the hosts can be accused of cowardice in picking them. Basically, the teams they chose are more likely to beat their own teams than A/W (or C/LD, R/W, or E/K) would be. So if anything, they made it tougher on themselves.

Exactly. It's not unfair that A/W did not get a GP spot.

 

[misskarne]

Exactly. It's not unfair that A/W did not get a GP spot.

They're the reigning Junior World Champions and until very recently (perhaps even this season) JWCs were guaranteed a spot. They are the only current JWCs snubbed in this way. It is absolutely unfair!

 

[her grace]

They're the reigning Junior World Champions and until very recently (perhaps even this season) JWCs were guaranteed a spot. They are the only current JWCs snubbed in this way. It is absolutely unfair!

The rule regarding guaranteed selection for JGPF/JW medalists changed several seasons ago.

A/W are not the only team snubbed under these rules. Duskova/Bidar were reigning junior world champions last season and didn't get any senior GPs. Duskova/Bidar stated that they stayed on the JGP last season because they didn't believe they'd be selected. Interview link

Q: Why did you decide to start your season as juniors and not as seniors then?
M: Because of the Junior Grand Prix. Maybe we would not get to the senior competitions, so we decided to go to juniors and we’re got to the Final, which is great.

A: Last year we didn’t do any senior competitions, so the judges and the world didn’t know about us as a senior pair. The Junior Grand Prix is still easier to get into.

It's very hard to be chosen as a non-host team with only one season's worth of points. I think that is unfair and that JWCs should be guaranteed a spot (or 2!), but it's not unprecedented.

 

[meggonzo]

There are also a few other pairs that could have been selected before A/W that also didn't get spots.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Did you read the article? Katia and Harley are going Senior. No JGP for them and it would be a terrible idea anyway because of the JGP scheduling and Nebelhorn scheduling.

Oh, crap! YAYYYYY!!!!!

 

[sandra_persch]

Oh, crap! YAYYYYY!!!!!

Here is hoping that A&W can do Lombardia Trophy and stay in Europe until Nebelhorn Trophy! Not that they could change too much on the programs in the 10 days between the events but at least they wouldn't have to fly back in between.

 

[skatingguy]

Lol Javi trying to get Japan. Funny. NHK spot is Hanyu's, and rightfully so. I bet Skate Canada is scrambling since revenue will be down...

Couldn't they both go? Javi was fourth so he could have been the 2nd seeded skater at that event.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Couldn't they both go? Javi was fourth so he could have been the 2nd seeded skater at that event.

That's a this year. In my example, I specified the years he was WC and allegedly could have chosen any GP he wanted.

 

[skatingguy]

That's a this year. In my example, I specified the years he was WC and allegedly could have chosen any GP he wanted.

I wasn't connecting what you posted with what @MAXSwagg had posted and his mention of Skate Canada revenue lost made me think he was referring to Fernandez wanting to do NHK in 2017.

 

[kwanfan1818]

I think it was Hanyu not doing Skate Canada, because he would have sold out the arena with his fans. Who would have seriously bolstered the Vancouver economy with retail therapy during the layover

 

[skatingguy]

I think it was Hanyu not doing Skate Canada, because he would have sold out the arena with his fans. Who would have seriously bolstered the Vancouver economy with retail therapy during the layover

Yes, I understood that.

 

[leafygreens]

USFSA has applied the Body of Work rule early so that there will be no surprises at nationals. We have four competitions where teams of favorites are forced to battle it out for their body of work. Who is better - Karen or Ashley? Mariah or Mirai? The better of the two plus nationals wins the spot. Gracie gifted with two GPs but no battles. With this set up, there will be no room for a young up-and-comer to swoop in at nationals and steal a spot for the team.

 

[mag]

USFSA has applied the Body of Work rule early so that there will be no surprises at nationals. We have four competitions where teams of favorites are forced to battle it out for their body of work. Who is better - Karen or Ashley? Mariah or Mirai? The better of the two plus nationals wins the spot. Gracie gifted with two GPs but no battles. With this set up, there will be no room for a young up-and-comer to swoop in at nationals and steal a spot for the team.

Gracie hasn't been "gifted" with GP spots. She earned those spots with her scores last year. Her melt down an Nationals has absolutely no effect on GP selection except potentially for host spots.

 

[Frida80]

Gracie hasn't been "gifted" with GP spots. She earned those spots with her scores last year. Her melt down an Nationals has absolutely no effect on GP selection except potentially for host spots.

I think they mean that Gracie has easier GP because they have less high level competitors. Therefore it's easier for her to medal and have more of a body of work than say Mirai who has to go against Carolina and Zhenia both times.

 

[Coco]

She could use a break or too, it all evens out in the end. If the end is, you know, age 85, lol.