IOC's decision: (clean) Russian athletes can compete under neutral flag at PyeongChang Olympics

[MarieM]

Ok HE is implying they are doped. I want proofs. And I want them now.

 

[Anyasnake]

Thomas Bach implying that he wants a clean "new generation" of Russian athletes makes me think that if there is anything going on with Bukin, it might follow him in 2022 as well. It's not clear at all.

 

[meggonzo]

It's weird to me that Bobrova would be invited when she actually was suspended, even if she was cleared later, over athletes that have not been suspended.

 

[BlueRidge]

It's weird to me that Bobrova would be invited when she actually was suspended, even if she was cleared later, over athletes that have not been suspended.

It would be just as weird if she were banned for an issue unrelated to the Russian doping scandal for which she was fully cleared.

But Bukin and Stolbova can expect this kind of suspicion now just like Bobrova even if they are fully cleared. It doesn't matter if you are cleared, you are forever smeared.

 

[MAXSwagg]

I watched all of CBC's Grand Prix coverage. I have been following all the online articles on CBC about V/M. Nothing of a judges conspiracy against V/M was ever mentioned on the TV or online.

And considering your recall of Carol's comments at Rostelcom Cup or as you said "her performance" and what happened in 2014, I am thinking you have misinterpreted whatever was said on the podcast.

And for who I am? I am a poster on FSU. Posters here get questioned all the time when they present things "as fact" that may or may not be fact. This is not unusual on this board. I don't think you are new here. You should expect to be questioned on validity of statements when you are saying that Carol Lane and Kurt Browning have started a media campaign about a judges conspiracy against V/M.

I didn’t say it was wholly in the broadcast coverage. You are misinformed, not I.

 

[Ka3sha]

It's weird to me that Bobrova would be invited when she actually was suspended, even if she was cleared later, over athletes that have not been suspended.

Semion Elistratov, Russian short-track speed-skater, Sochi Olympic Gold medalist, failed a drug test for meldonium and was suspended just as well as Bobrova.
And now he's the only short-track speed-skater who actually got an invitation to compete in Korea.

I think that both WADA and IOC know that the whole meldonium case was WADA's fault and athletes are pretty innocent. All those athletes didn't have chances to compete at Worlds and other international events, their names were smeared and etc. Still those athletes didn't even sue WADA or ask for any kind of compensation.

 

[Elkmaria]

Thomas Bach

So yesterday they said was not necessarily doping-related, but today it suddenly is. Kudos for handling such a sensitive issue properly, IOC.
So are they going to ban these athletes permanently after all?

 

[TAHbKA]

Bukin's open letter to IOC/Bach
`My name is Ivan Bukin, am a member of the Russian figure skating team, a son of an Olympic champion in ice dance Andrey Bukin who competed with Natalia Bestemianova. My mom also used to be competitive figure skater.
I grew up in a sportive family and from the very childhood learned you can gain things in the sports only by your hard work and not the background games or forbiddent substances.
I've been skating for many years. I was never part of any doping scandal. None of my tests returned positive. I don't understand how come a coupel of weeks before the Olympics, without any reason given am dismissed.
The Games in Korea were supposed to be my first Olympics. My skating partner Alexandra Stepanova and I aimed there for so many years. We worked hard and this year made it to the Olympic team of our country. Last week we became 3rd in the Europeans in Moscow.
Becoming an Olympian was my biggest dream and I can't understand nor accept my name not appearing in the list of the invited athletes.
I hope the decision will be reconsidered and I will be given a chance to participate the XXIII Games in 2018.'

 

[BlueRidge]

So yesterday they said was not necessarily doping-related, but today it suddenly is. Kudos for handling such a sensitive issue properly, IOC.
So are they going to ban these athletes permanently after all?

He doesn't seem to me to be saying that it is doping related, only that it is necessary to do this for the sports to be "clean." Unless there is something missing in translation he doesn't seem to be saying much of anything at all.

 

[BlueRidge]

Bukin's open letter to IOC/Bach
`My name is Ivan Bukin, am a member of the Russian figure skating team, a son of an Olympic champion in ice dance Andrey Bukin who competed with Natalia Bestemianova. My mom also used to be competitive figure skater.
I grew up in a sportive family and from the very childhood learned you can gain things in the sports only by your hard work and not the background games or forbiddent substances.
I've been skating for many years. I was never part of any doping scandal. None of my tests returned positive. I don't understand how come a coupel of weeks before the Olympics, without any reason given am dismissed.
The Games in Korea were supposed to be my first Olympics. My skating partner Alexandra Stepanova and I aimed there for so many years. We worked hard and this year made it to the Olympic team of our country. Last week we became 3rd in the Europeans in Moscow.
Becoming an Olympian was my biggest dream and I can't understand nor accept my name not appearing in the list of the invited athletes.
I hope the decision will be reconsidered and I will be given a chance to participate the XXIII Games in 2018.'

Bukin has got to feel like he fell into a Kafka novel.

 

[Elkmaria]

Bukin's open letter to IOC/Bach

Poor guy, I'm so sad for him. But I doubt this letter will help them in any way.

 

[Elkmaria]

He doesn't seem to me to be saying that it is doping related, only that it is necessary to do this for the sports to be "clean." Unless there is something missing in translation he doesn't seem to be saying much of anything at all.

Well, he says that the list contains only clean athletes, and if an athlete is not included, this means that IOC has good reasons to omit his/her name. I think he's being clear about this. Unless they change their minds again later.

 

[SmallFairy]

(((Ivan)))

 

[BlueRidge]

Well, he said that the list contains only clean athletes, and if an athlete is not included, this means that IOC has good reasons to omit his/her name. I think he's being clear about this. Unless they change their minds again later.

yes good reasons that he doesn't feel the need to make public.

Personally I think the good reasons are the need the IOC felt to look like it was being discriminating and doing something. But I suppose we'll see.

I really hope that they will change their minds, that Russia Federation can bring something to them that makes them add Bukin and Stolbova.

 

[Frau Muller]

So how did the IOC choose which figure skaters to exclude? “Eenee, meeny, miney, moe?” Coin toss?

 

[MsZem]

Poor Bukin, he seems completely mystified by the decision.

I really hope that they will change their minds, that Russia Federation can bring something to them that makes them add Bukin and Stolbova.

But how can they prove a negative? With anti-doping, it seems like the burden of proof often falls to the athletes, and mere suspicion is treated as proof.

I had hoped that WADA and the IOC learned something from the Meldonium debacle. Apparently not.

 

[Debbie S]

Any chance the IOC confused Bukin with Bobrova? This just seems so bizarre, if all his drug tests were clean. I guess we will be given more info when the final list comes out?

 

[VGThuy]

With a preliminary list being leaked to the public, doesn't that mean this is an incomplete list?

 

[TAHbKA]

Any chance the IOC confused Bukin with Bobrova? This just seems so bizarre, if all his drug tests were clean. I guess we will be given more info when the final list comes out?

and now let's sing it all together for the 23094209340 time: Bobrova's tests were always fine, it was a WADA **** up to begin with

 

[BlueRidge]

Any chance the IOC confused Bukin with Bobrova?

No

There is no more reason for excluding Bobrova than Bukin. The meldonium thing was a separate situation and everything about that is known and resolved. Bobrova is no more under suspicion than any one else.

 

[Bigbird]

yes good reasons that he doesn't feel the need to make public.

Personally I think the good reasons are the need the IOC felt to look like it was being discriminating and doing something. But I suppose we'll see.

I really hope that they will change their minds, that Russia Federation can bring something to them that makes them add Bukin and Stolbova.

Assuming, that this is all politically motivated, I think they will only change their minds if Russia openly admits there was government organised doping. Let's see how quickly they will openly admit to that. That is the only chance Bukin has to be allowed to participate in these games. The ID world knows that B/S have reached their ceiling so there's nothing to gain in not inviting them. So as they say in chess:
IOC: Check.
It's time for the Russian federation to make their move. Or they will be felled to its knees.

 

[BlueRidge]

Poor Bukin, he seems completely mystified by the decision.


But how can they prove a negative? With anti-doping, it seems like the burden of proof often falls to the athletes, and mere suspicion is treated as proof.

I had hoped that WADA and the IOC learned something from the Meldonium debacle. Apparently not.

They can't prove a negative, if they had to, no one would be clean. But why single out Bukin with no positive evidence? Maybe it really was that they put his file in the wrong pile...

 

[BlueRidge]

Assuming, that this is all politically motivated. I think they will only change their minds if Russia openly admits there was government organised doping. Let's see how quickly they will openly admit to that. That is the only chance Bukin has to be allowed to participate in these games. The ID world knows that B/S have reached their ceiling so there's nothing to gain in not inviting them. So as they say in chess:
IOC: Check.
It's time for the Russian federation to make their move. Or they will be felled to its knees.

Sorry I don't believe it is chess. I believe it is bumbling idiots, egos, and mistakes. Humans in collective bodies are seldom very clever.

 

[caseyedwards]

https://m.sports.ru/biathlon/1059564772.html

Thomas Bach

Now it’s only a question as to when Bukin loses his euros medal and it’s given to c/l. Bach is very clear. Bukin is a doper. He is a cheater. So is Stolbova. Very soon c/j will have their medal too.

 

[BlueRidge]

Now it’s only a question as to when Bukin loses his euros medal and it’s given to c/l. Bach is very clear. Bukin is a doper. He is a cheater. So is Stolbova. Very soon c/j will have their medal too.

yeah, see and you don't believe it will go so far as US getting pairs gold?! Sure hell it will!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

I am in LOVE with Bukin (cover your ears Poirier). He actually seems like nice good guy. I hope there was no problem and he will be cleared to skate...

Also, who needs this distraction when you're supposed to be training for the next 2 weeks.... uggg,...

 

[Bigbird]

Sorry I don't believe it is chess. I believe it is bumbling idiots, egos, and mistakes. Humans in collective bodies are seldom very clever.

If so then Bobrova should not be going to these OGs. No matter what was illegal or legal at the time, she tested positive when it was illegal. Hence in all seriousness she is the one that should be uninvited. There is nothing more clear cut than that. So either one of two things are at play. There is more to Bukin's story than probably he even knows or the IOC is not really as incompetent as we'd like to believe.

 

[BlueRidge]

If so then Bobrova should not be going to these OGs. No matter what was illegal or legal at the time, she tested positive when it was illegal. Hence in all seriousness she is the one that should be uninvited. There is nothing more clear cut than that. So either one of two things are at play. There is more to Bukin's story than probably he even knows or the IOC is not really as incompetent as we'd like to believe.

What's that word Andrey used?

 

[skategal]

I didn’t say it was wholly in the broadcast coverage. You are misinformed, not I.

You said it was Canadian figure skating commentators alluding OFTEN to a conspiracy against V/M this season and that is why you no longer watch dance with CBC commentary. When pressed by me you said that it also was in a Kurt, Carol, PJ Kwong podcast.

I am saying that I have been watching CBC coverage all season, and a judging conspiracy hasn't been alluded to let alone often.... so no, I am not the one misinformed here.

 

[Debbie S]

and now let's sing it all together for the 23094209340 time: Bobrova's tests were always fine, it was a WADA **** up to begin with

No

There is no more reason for excluding Bobrova than Bukin. The meldonium thing was a separate situation and everything about that is known and resolved. Bobrova is no more under suspicion than any one else.

Yes, I'm aware of all that. I never said that Bobrova shouldn't be allowed to compete. But it appears that there is no rhyme or reason why Bukin would be banned, and I doubt the IOC cares about who medals in ice dance now or in the future, so I was wondering if there was a mix up, similar to his name being in the wrong file, as has been suggested.