Increasingly likely “Russia” will be banned from Pyeongchang

[BlueRidge]

I think that allowing the clean athletes to compete under a neutral flag is a good middle of the road alternative. They still get to compete but the country that sponsored doping will not be honored.

My knee jerk reaction was that he would outright ban everyone but on further thinking, he may not. His RP peeps may be able to spin it so that not all face is lost and like you said, the athletes compete angry.

It doesn't really do anything to block the athletes from participating if IOC requires them to be neutrals. It just compounds it. Russians can go right on rooting for them as Russians and be angry that they aren't allowed to compete under the country's flag and name. That seems kind of like a win-win for Putin to me, under the circumstances. ...which is kind of why I don't see it as much of a penalty for those responsible for the doping.

 

[missing]

The BBC article suggests that Putin would boycott, if the decision were for Russian athletes to compete as neutrals, stating that would be because of politics because people would want him to do that. That seems weird to me, wouldn't it be just the opposite that Russians would want their athletes to compete and be angry if Putin would not let them?

I would assume some people love their athletes more than the team or country they represent and some people love the team or country more than they love individual athletes.

I'd be interested to know if anyone has done a survey of Russians to see how they feel about a possible boycott.

 

[IceAlisa]

It doesn't really do anything to block the athletes from participating if IOC requires them to be neutrals. It just compounds it. Russians can go right on rooting for them as Russians and be angry that they aren't allowed to compete under the country's flag and name. That seems kind of like a win-win for Putin to me, under the circumstances. ...which is kind of why I don't see it as much of a penalty for those responsible for the doping.

I do see it as a penalty for Russia as a state. Symbolism matters.

 

[BlueRidge]

I do see it as a penalty for Russia as a state. Symbolism matters.

I suppose that's true. Are there other aspects to the penalty besides this? Like fines or such?

Really hoping the symbolism doesn't matter so much that Putin blocks the athletes from participating, since the neutral thing seems the likely outcome.

 

[Bulletsdad]

I assume that Russians could not compete as Neutrals in the team event?????

 

[IceAlisa]

I suppose that's true. Are there other aspects to the penalty besides this? Like fines or such?

Really hoping the symbolism doesn't matter so much that Putin blocks the athletes from participating, since the neutral thing seems the likely outcome.

Keeping my fingers crossed he lets them if Russia as a state is banned.

 

[caseyedwards]

I've heard Nike is designing gags to go with the neutral uniform.

Funny!

If putin didn’t already say it would be an extreme humiliation I could agree! So putin has to flip flop and explain why Russians aren’t being humiliated or agree Russian are being humiliated but it’s good because of some reason.

I do see it as a penalty for Russia as a state. Symbolism matters.

 

[danibellerika]

I assume that Russians could not compete as Neutrals in the team event?????

That's what I was thinking. Canada could start the celebration with or without a reliable Chan...

 

[Bulletsdad]

Keeping my fingers crossed he lets them if Russia as a state is banned.

That is my hope. I really want to see the Russians compete, but Putin is a megalomaniac who needs a strong reality check. If my great Trumpkin continues on his current path, some sort of non-sport sanctions against the US will not be far behind.

 

[caseyedwards]

That's what I was thinking. Canada could start the celebration with or without a reliable Chan...

Why couldn’t the team be the Neutral team

 

[missing]

I suppose that's true. Are there other aspects to the penalty besides this? Like fines or such?

Really hoping the symbolism doesn't matter so much that Putin blocks the athletes from participating, since the neutral thing seems the likely outcome.

The article I linked to above makes mention of the possibility of "a hefty fine."

I don't actually understand how the fining would work, since I don't know where the money would go.

 

[caseyedwards]

The article I linked to above makes mention of the possibility of "a hefty fine."

I don't actually understand how the fining would work, since I don't know where the money would go.

They said it would go to WADA

 

[skatepixie]

IF no Russian is allowed to acknowledge being from Russia or anything Russian of course Medvedeva would be banned from skating to Anna karenina

Nah -- they mean symbols of the country and government, generally.

Though skating to AK as a neutral athlete would be a great stealth patriotic move, which I would applaud her for.

I mean, seriously, of all the absurd posts from you, this is the most absurd. They'd have to ban all Swan Lake/Black Swan programs by that (faulty) logic.

 

[Bulletsdad]

Can "

Why couldn’t the team be the Neutral team

i guess they could, as long as Russia's qualifying point totals to get "Neutral" into the top ten countries can be used.

 

[caseyedwards]

Nah -- they mean symbols of the country and government, generally.

Though skating to AK as a neutral athlete would be a great stealth patriotic move, which I would applaud her for.

Reminds me of a joke hurdler Sergei Shubenkov told about if it would be allowed if he walked around with a bear on a leash! Yes it’s a symbol but not an official government seal or symbol! I do think American and Canadian and others would seek to ban Anna karenina!

 

[skatepixie]

Reminds me of a joke hurdler Sergei Shubenkov told about if it would be allowed if he walked around with a bear on a leash! Yes it’s a symbol but not an official government seal or symbol! I do think American and Canadian and others would seek to ban Anna karenina!

No, because some of their skaters have Swan Lake programs. It would be a giant mess. Don't be denser than you usually are -- or, actually, go for it. It's amusing.

 

[caseyedwards]

Can "


i guess they could, as long as Russia's qualifying point totals to get "Neutral" into the top ten countries can be used.

Now I think ioc will ask isu to make the decision if Neutral skaters can take Russia’s spot

 

[caseyedwards]

No, because some of their skaters have Swan Lake programs. It would be a giant mess. Don't be denser than you usually are -- or, actually, go for it. It's amusing.

There’s no nationalism if an American skates to something by a Russian. But if a Russian does is there a problem?

 

[bardtoob]

This is dumb.

Regarding the athletes, just strip the athletes proven to be INDIVIDUAL cheaters of their medals, and leave it at that. (We hope) the athletes are ultimately responsible for what they put in their bodies, regardless of who offers the products to the athletes, so they should be individually banned.

Regarding the drug testing facilities, they should be decertified because clearly their "quality control" is bad if they can not detect the drugs for which they are testing.

 

[skatepixie]

There’s no nationalism if an American skates to something by a Russian. But if a Russian does is there a problem?

I don't think they can ban the culture, only the government. They aren't (if this happens) telling them that they cannot speak their language, etc -- they will still be culturally Russian people, there's no changing that, nor should there be. AK and Swan Lake are from a time before this government -- long before.

Personally, I'm against banning the country. It's absurd, especially when WADA is so messed up, as shown by the Bobrova case. Ban individuals caught cheating, maybe even ban teams (individual sports) where cheating is widespread. Leave the skaters -- and their flags -- alone.

 

[IceAlisa]

So leave the state that promoted cheating alone? I don't think so.

 

[VGThuy]

If the decision allows Russian teams to compete as a team even under a neutral flag and colors in other sports, then I don't see why the Russian skaters still couldn't compete as a team for the Team Event, especially if they allow it for sports that have a both a team and an individual aspect like the ones with team relays and also individual events.

 

[bardtoob]

So leave the state that promoted cheating alone? I don't think so.

Here is the thing, if the rules are stringently enforced on the individuals, then the state gains nothing from sponsoring cheating.

 

[IceAlisa]

Here is the thing, if the rules are stringently enforced on the individuals, then the state gains nothing from sponsoring cheating.

You are kidding, right?

 

[bardtoob]

You are kidding, right?

Give me a counterargument.

 

[IceAlisa]

Give me a counterargument.

The fact that the Russian state-sponsored program exists, for starters.

 

[skatepixie]

So leave the state that promoted cheating alone? I don't think so.

In sports where they didn't cheat? Sure.

 

[bardtoob]

If the decision allows Russian teams to compete as a team even under a neutral flag and colors in other sports, then I don't see why the Russian skaters still couldn't compete as a team for the Team Event, especially if they allow it for sports that have a both a team and an individual aspect like the ones with team relays and also individual events.

I think they should not allow team events at all if the requirement is to compete under a neutral flag. Skaters, skiers and others participating in individual events should be able to compete, but not whole teams, whether it be a hockey team or a conglomerate of individuals on a "team" in a skating competition*.

* I still think the only true team events in skating are Pairs, Ice Dance, and Synchro. The rest is just totals of individuals.

 

[Bulletsdad]

In sports where they didn't cheat? Sure.

That's called the World Figure Skating Championships!

 

[IceAlisa]

In sports where they didn't cheat? Sure.

The state cannot be honored selectively. It defeats the purpose.