Increasingly likely “Russia” will be banned from Pyeongchang

[sjs5572]

Facts presented presented through the lens of cnn.com and such are not necessarily facts.

Media is not infallible.

Also, wishful thinking does not equate the truth, specifically if there is no proof.

Additionally, I find it interesting, when the truth comes out and someone is cleared, all of those screaming "burn the witch" are suddenly nowhere to be found...

Well, I will concede that foxnews.com is not necessarily factual.

 

[sjs5572]

If Russia is banned, I wonder if Japan can send 3 lady skaters instead of 2.... just wondering..

I think they would be replaced by the first three alternates from Nebelhorn....

 

[Karen-W]

I think they would be replaced by the first three alternates from Nebelhorn....

And at what point does the US get a 2nd pairs spot if Russia misses the Olympics? After the entire Nebelhorn pairs field has been given spots?

 

[misskarne]

And at what point does the US get a 2nd pairs spot if Russia misses the Olympics? After the entire Nebelhorn pairs field has been given spots?

Sure, and why not? It's not the fault of the Nebelhorn pairs that one of the US pairs didn't even make the FS at Worlds!

 

[sjs5572]

Sure, and why not? It's not the fault of the Nebelhorn pairs that one of the US pairs didn't even make the FS at Worlds!

Well, the US placement totals at 2017 worlds were still 28 or less. The US still has two pairs qualified for 2018 worlds. That being said, I believe the list would be exhausted from Nebelhorn unless a special provision was made to replace banned vs withdrawn spots.

 

[Marco]

Figure Skating or Hockey without Russia will be a farce I don't want to witness.

Well, if Russia is banned, then it is banned for a reason.

It is going to be unfair for Russian athletes who have always been clean, but it will also be unfair to nations and their athletes which do not practice state sponsored doping if a doping country and its athletes can get away with it.

 

[misskarne]

It is going to be unfair for Russian athletes who have always been clean, but it will also be unfair to nations and their athletes which do not practice state sponsored doping if a doping country and its athletes can get away with it.

Was it then fair for other sprinters in Rio to race against known dopers Gatlin and Gay?

 

[Willin]

@misskarne Well, Gatlin and Gay demonstrably cleaned up their acts after serving a punishment for doping. Or, at least they were as clean as modern detection technology allows. As I mentioned in earlier posts, both were tested far more every season they competed after their suspension than just about every other US Track and Field athletes and still came up clean. The USADA test numbers don't even mention the US Track & Field tests not run by USADA, any testing ordered by IAAF, or any WADA testing. Now, I'm not saying testing is perfect, just that it's pretty hard to get away with doping when you're doing that many tests each season.

What I will say about the US is that while I don't think athletes dope with banned substances, I know US athletes take advantage of every new technology (some of them probably soon to be banned) to get an advantage. For instance, I've heard that there's some new neurostimulating technology being tested by USA Skiing & Snowboarding that can help increase performance. Or the swimsuits the US swim team wore that helped them break world records (before they were banned). Or the technology many NBA players are using to help increase reaction speed and coordination.

 

[Japanfan]

Sjs5572 and barbarafan, we do not care about your political opinions. This is an inappropriate place to post them. This is about figure skating and Olympics and you pushing political agenda is only thinly vailed. Take this to PI forums.

Politics is part of the Olympics and certainly part of figure skating in general.

Also, the possibility of Russia being banned from the OG is a political issue in part. The thread title should have warned you to stay away.

 

[MarieM]

If Bruno failed the 3rd test, I'm flying to Germany and murdering him in his sleep. It's justifiable because the Olympics are dead to me otherwise.

Do not say it too loud. I am crossing all my fingers and toes.

 

[Japanfan]

Do not say it too loud. I am crossing all my fingers and toes.

Without sounding too cynical, couldn't TPTB make sure he got a pass?

 

[lala]

Well, if Russia is banned, then it is banned for a reason.

It is going to be unfair for Russian athletes who have always been clean, but it will also be unfair to nations and their athletes which do not practice state sponsored doping if a doping country and its athletes can get away with it.

So are you sure what Rodchenkov said and what Mclaren said that is the truth? I don't believe totally.I didn't see any concrete proof. Plus Rodchenkov need to know those athletes' names who were involved in the doping case.Why didn't he say any names? It's weird. And I also believe what are known by many persons, that is not secret anymore. I don't believe there aren't any rumours about the state sponsored doping among the athletes, coaches, etc. They are too unified, they are denying unifiedly ..

Plus for ex in the figure skating aren't too useful or used the drugs..The stamina is just one part of the program's succes..I believe, many time that skill is exist most of the skaters in competitions, but they can't win.

 

[misskarne]

@misskarne Well, Gatlin and Gay demonstrably cleaned up their acts after serving a punishment for doping.

Anyone who thinks Gatlin especially is now clean is missing a few kangaroos from their top paddock. There ain't no way on earth he's clean. And he never admitted wrongdoing.

USOC and USADA didn't give a rats when he wanted to run in Rio. But now we're getting all high and mighty about clean, innocent Russian athletes?

What I will say about the US is that while I don't think athletes dope with banned substances, I know US athletes take advantage of every new technology (some of them probably soon to be banned) to get an advantage.

Which leads us into an argument about the rules vs the spirit of the rules.

 

[LarrySK8]

From the LA Times a couple of days ago ....

"The World Anti-Doping Agency, which has spearheaded the ongoing investigation, announced earlier this month that it had obtained evidence from a Russian database that supports claims of systemic cheating.

This week, WADA declined to re-accredit RUSADA, Russia's anti-doping agency, because Russian officials refused to acknowledge a state-sponsored doping effort.

The Russians have continually insisted that any athletes who took performance-enhancing drugs did so on their own.

Russian President Vladimir Putin has blamed the U.S. for quietly pushing the investigation.

"In response to our alleged interference in their elections, they want to stir up problems during [the upcoming] Russian presidential election," Putin told the TASS news agency.

Up to this point, the IOC has been reticent to take decisive action, leaving the issue to be handled by the international federations that govern each sport.

The track federation, for example, has banned Russia’s team from all international competition. Other federations did likewise for the 2016 Summer Olympics, forcing much of the national team to stay home.

A limited number of Russians have been allowed to compete as "neutrals" — not wearing their country's colors — after proving a history of clean testing.

But now many sports officials would like to see a total ban on Russian athletes for Pyeongchang.

The IOC is awaiting reports from two commissions it established to study evidence gathered by WADA investigators.

The executive board's decision is scheduled to be announced by IOC President Thomas Bach on the morning of Dec. 5."

 

[Willin]

@misskarne I understand that you are Australian, but believe me - the US fans/TV people hate them just as much. And yes, I do believe that he is clean - at least by WADA/USADA rules. As I said, there's plenty of other things he could be using that are not in the spirit of the rules, but would render him clean.

 

[DreamSkates]

@misskarne I understand that you are Australian, but believe me - the US fans/TV people hate them just as much. And yes, I do believe that he is clean - at least by WADA/USADA rules. As I said, there's plenty of other things he could be using that are not in the spirit of the rules, but would render him clean.

Who are you to say "all US fans/TV people hate them" ? ALL is a rather large number.

 

[professordeb]

Who are you to say "all US fans/TV people hate them" ? ALL is a rather large number.

I don't see the word ALL in the text you quoted, simply "the US fans/TV people" or am I misreading.
Besides, I'd rather get back to the topic at hand -- how will this all play out between now and the dates for the Olympics (which I have forgotten, sorry).

 

[skatingguy]

This probably doesn't help the situation - this makes six medals that have been stripped from Russian athletes from the Sochi Olympics. With the loss of these two medals it means that Russia is no longer the country with the most medals.
IOC bans four Russian skeleton athletes for life over Sochi doping
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...etes-for-life-over-sochi-doping-idUSKBN1DM1JY

 

[DreamSkates]

I don't see the word ALL in the text you quoted, simply "the US fans/TV people" or am I misreading.
Besides, I'd rather get back to the topic at hand -- how will this all play out between now and the dates for the Olympics (which I have forgotten, sorry).

THE US fans - use of the word THE, means the same as all of the fans.

 

[Seerek]

If Russia is banned, I wonder if Japan can send 3 lady skaters instead of 2.... just wondering..

In theory, one could "reset" the 2017 World Championship results that would result in Mai Mihara actually finishing 4th and Wakaba Higuchi up to 9th, which would get the 13 placements needed for 3. Galustyan then gets a berth from 2017 Worlds results as well (Yu moves up to 1st alternate).

 

[caseyedwards]

It’s so likely now that russia will just be expelled from IOC

 

[skatingguy]

In theory, one could "reset" the 2017 World Championship results that would result in Mai Mihara actually finishing 4th and Wakaba Higuchi up to 9th, which would get the 13 placements needed for 3. Galustyan then gets a berth from 2017 Worlds results as well (Yu moves up to 1st alternate).

That would only happen if the ISU banned Russia and the ban was retroactive to a date before the World Championships so that their results were voided. That doesn't seem very likely.
If Russia were not to compete at the Olympics, either because of an IOC ban or a ban on the Russian team but the individual athletes are allowed compete that results in a complete withdrawal the spots would be reallocated according to the Nebelhorn results.
Men
Philippines & Switzerland
Ladies
Armenia, Singapore, & Chinese Taipei
Pairs
Japan, Belarus, & Spain
Ice Dance
Lithuania & Armenia
Team Event
Spain

 

[Carolla5501]

From the LA Times a couple of days ago ....

"The World Anti-Doping Agency, which has spearheaded the ongoing investigation, announced earlier this month that it had obtained evidence from a Russian database that supports claims of systemic cheating.

This week, WADA declined to re-accredit RUSADA, Russia's anti-doping agency, because Russian officials refused to acknowledge a state-sponsored doping effort.

The Russians have continually insisted that any athletes who took performance-enhancing drugs did so on their own.

Russian President Vladimir Putin has blamed the U.S. for quietly pushing the investigation.

"In response to our alleged interference in their elections, they want to stir up problems during [the upcoming] Russian presidential election," Putin told the TASS news agency.

Up to this point, the IOC has been reticent to take decisive action, leaving the issue to be handled by the international federations that govern each sport.

The track federation, for example, has banned Russia’s team from all international competition. Other federations did likewise for the 2016 Summer Olympics, forcing much of the national team to stay home.

A limited number of Russians have been allowed to compete as "neutrals" — not wearing their country's colors — after proving a history of clean testing.

But now many sports officials would like to see a total ban on Russian athletes for Pyeongchang.

The IOC is awaiting reports from two commissions it established to study evidence gathered by WADA investigators.

The executive board's decision is scheduled to be announced by IOC President Thomas Bach on the morning of Dec. 5."

Well you have to give Putin credit for "creativity"

Let's see.... the alleged "interference" elected the current administration. So why would they want to upset Russia? They LIKE Putin LOL!


And then there is the fact that this ENTIRE story broke due to German TV.

It's a mess, but I don't think there's a comparable. While the US and other countries have had individual athletes and even sports mired in a controversy like this it's not been alleged it was "state sponsored" And of course in the US the Olympic sports actually don't get much state support to do this. Figure Skating for example is not funded by the US Government, nor do they play much a role in the sports world besides giving NFL "anti-trust" exemptions and posing with stars!

Personally I would like for the team to get to compete and I think if Russia would just say "Sorry" and let someone appointed by WADA administer their testing program for a while the whole thing would die and go away. IOC wants them there, NBC wants them there etc... But egos seem to be bigger than that so the "kids" might pay the price.

No one on here should be throwing stones at athletes. (Trust me no matter WHERE you are from if you have Olympic level competitors at least one of them is pushing the boundaries to try to gain that edge)

 

[Karen-W]

https://www.insidethegames.biz/arti...be-intimidated-over-pyeongchang-2018-decision

So, who here still thinks Bach wants Russia competing under its own flag in Pyeongchang? And four MORE Russians (running total of 14) including bobsled double-gold medalist and opening ceremonies Russian flag bearer, Alexander Zubkov, were banned this morning for doping.

http://ow.ly/Bprs30gNaMk

Zubkov is, also, President of the Russian Bobsleigh federation. And the Russian #2 men's bobsled teams, who could be upgraded to medals, have team members under doping investigation.

It is going to be interesting to see what some of the individual federations do if the IOC does ban Russia but allows clean athletes/sports to compete. Would the RFSF defy Putin and send figure skaters? At the minimum it would mean those skaters couldn't compete in the team competition, which would bump Australia up to being the tenth qualifying team. Is national pride (over doping allegations!) more important than an Olympic medal?

 

[caseyedwards]

https://www.insidethegames.biz/arti...be-intimidated-over-pyeongchang-2018-decision

So, who here still thinks Bach wants Russia competing under its own flag in Pyeongchang? And four MORE Russians (running total of 14) including bobsled double-gold medalist and opening ceremonies Russian flag bearer, Alexander Zubkov, were banned this morning for doping.

http://ow.ly/Bprs30gNaMk

Zubkov is, also, President of the Russian Bobsleigh federation. And the Russian #2 men's bobsled teams, who could be upgraded to medals, have team members under doping investigation.

It is going to be interesting to see what some of the individual federations do if the IOC does ban Russia but allows clean athletes/sports to compete. Would the RFSF defy Putin and send figure skaters? At the minimum it would mean those skaters couldn't compete in the team competition, which would bump Australia up to being the tenth qualifying team. Is national pride (over doping allegations!) more important than an Olympic medal?

Of course there will be no defying! There was not even any defying of carter by Americans! And Russian government will block any travel to South Korea! It’s over. Russia and all Russians are out of Pyeongchang and its likely Russia is out of olympics until putin leaves office. Olympic medals are now hatred of Russia medals. I’m sure no Russian wants one anymore.

 

[Carolla5501]

Of course there will be no defying! There was not even any defying of carter by Americans! And Russian government will block any travel to South Korea! It’s over. Russia and all Russians are out of Pyeongchang and its likely Russia is out of olympics until putin leaves office. Olympic medals are now hatred of Russia medals. I’m sure no Russian wants one anymore.

Are you working on some type of "drama" award?. I am sure that your statement "no Russian wants one anymore" is factually incorrect LOL!

 

[caseyedwards]

Are you working on some type of "drama" award?. I am sure that your statement "no Russian wants one anymore" is factually incorrect LOL!

When IOC bans or expels Russia December 5th its going to be a fact!

 

[Carolla5501]

When IOC bans or expels Russia December 5th its going to be a fact!

I am so impressed that you are able to read the mind of every Russian. Another poster with outstanding skills that are being wasted

 

[bardtoob]

And at what point does the US get a 2nd pairs spot if Russia misses the Olympics? After the entire Nebelhorn pairs field has been given spots?

Well, the entire Nebelhorn pairs field is probably more appealing to watch.

 

[caseyedwards]

I am so impressed that you are able to read the mind of every Russian. Another poster with outstanding skills that are being wasted

It’s either going to be support IOC and overthrow putin or go along with Russia victim!