If You Could Make Just One Rule Change

[Daisycat]

Ban lyrics in ALL disciplines, all programs. I hate almost all the music with lyrics skaters have used and find this type of music cheesy and very distracting. Many wonderful programs have been ruined by bad music lyrics, i.e. Virtue/Moir's 2017-18 free dance. Drove me crazy...that growly voice croaking out "Roxanne...."

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

NO blowing kisses as any part of choreography

(I cant pick just 1. Ive been a fan wayyyy too long)

2. Bring back Cumpolsary Dance. (I like 3 segments).

3. Ladies layback is just that, a layback

4. Spiral sequence mandatory in SP. (I dont care, thats how ANL likes it).

5. Once an ISU judge is found cheating, banned for LIFE.

Added later. Sorry too many things p*ss me off. lol

6. Bring start orders back to the way there were...jumbled. I dont like worse skaters in first group, and then the "better" skaters. Sends the wrong message this way. Also people dont show up until the "better" skaters, leaving arenas more empty at the beginning. I like it mixed.

For me is more exciting that way. Like for the SPs I was always like "I wonder what Angela drew?"

Added later...sorry I got more.

7. None of this UR crap. If you land it, you land it.

 

[Tahuu]

Take pre-rotation (i.e., cheated take-off) into consideration in determining under-rotated and downgraded jumps. The TP should be allowed to review pre-rotation in slow motion just as they do in reviewing take-off edges.

Currently 90* under-rotation is marked < and 180* under-rotation or 180* pre-rotation are marked <<. But any pre-rotation less than 180* is not penalized as <. Without slo-mo it is impossible to determine if a skater is facing forward the moment his toe pick leaves the ice. As a result, even 180* pre-rotation (e.g., Shoma's 4F) is often not penalized.

Edge jumps are inherently pre-rotated and some skaters are trained to pre-rotated, is it fair to ask that they need to land straight backward to avoid being marked <? After all, a triple is 2-1/2 turns and a quad is 3-1/2 turns in the air.

 

[Rhino]

Not strictly a rule change but related.

The tech score box at the top left hand of the screen. Mark any elements under review in yellow. The 'traffic light' system at the Olympics I'm sure helped casual fans understand a lot more what was going on, but now you've lost it. Highlighting the elements in yellow would I'm sure help them when scores are a lot less than you might expect e.g. the Eurosport commentators are still getting mightily confused, and if they're confused what is a casual fan going to make of it?

Also...

'Clean URs' not punished as much, but not messy ones. Could be done. Lower BV, but no further reduction in GOE for the UR. Would give a higher effective starting position. Then everything the same thereafter i.e. deductions for further errors, positive GOEs for good things etc.

Length of programs 4mins 15s +/- 15s. That way 4min 30s for men, and 4 mins for Ladies would be possible, but could also have 4min 30s for Ladies (more 'artistry') and 4 mins for men if want to pump out the jumps, though given this year expect most would plump for 4mins 30s.

Choreo Seq - lower the BV, plus increase the GOE, as per Ice Dance. Still getting 3.5/4 points for effectively doing nothing, vs 3 pts last year. Lower the BV plus increase GOE would force them to do better moves in the field to get the points. As is, is still a throwaway element, but anything spectacular and different in a program has to be good - see how popular Big Air and things like that are becoming these days.

Finally, once and for all accept World Records. Sell the sport..., and don't worry if a 3T is worth 4.2 points this year, and 4.3 points last year. The Kiss and Cry is one of skating's great inventions but it's not being made the most of. Skater does a fantastic performance a new PB or even a World Record but all you get is, yawn, just another Seasons Best.

 

[taz'smum]

You have to pass ISU bronze level compulsory figures or dance tests before you are eligible to compete in any ISU competitions!

For ISU championships you would need your silver compulsory figure or dance tests.

That would remove the need for all this minimum score stuff!

 

[Vagabond]

I cant pick just 1. Ive been a fan wayyyy too long

No second helpings until everyone gets firsts!

 

[Alilou]

I admit I haven't read every detail of the thread, and from skimming I've seen some good ideas, but for my money the one single rule change that's needed (because I think it would have the most impact over all disciplines) is separate panels for Tech and PCS.

 

[snoopysnake]

I have to ask for two:

1. Bonus points for a clean skate with no falls, two-foots, or step-outs. Even if it makes for more quadless programs, I'd rather see more clean skates.

2. Panties attached to or worn with skating dresses may not be a lighter color than the dress's skirt. i.e. you may only have white panties with a white skirt, beige on a beige skirt, etc. If the skirt has multiple colors, the panties must not be the lightest color...e.g. no pink panties with a burgundy and pink skirt.

 

[screech]

I have to ask for two:

1. Bonus points for a clean skate with no falls, two-foots, or step-outs. Even if it makes for more quadless programs, I'd rather see more clean skates.

I'd also like to see bonus for skaters who do at least one of each kind of jump (sal, toe, loop, flip, lutz, axel), since many skaters (especially ladies) avoid putting in jumps they don't do as well.

 

[foxboston]

Straight line steps should be.. straight. In fact... bring back the entertainment value of footwork. ugh.

 

[Vash01]

Score PCS the way they should be scored, as per criteria. Don't just give high PCS to skaters who get high TES. Those two Can be different for the same skater.

 

[screech]

Score PCS the way they should be scored, as oer criteria. Don't just give high PCS to skaters who get high TES. Those two Can be different for the same skater.

And score each PCS separately! Just because someone has good skating skills, does not mean they are interpreting the music well. If they deserve 9.0 on one and 6.0 on another, give them a freaking 6.0. Don't give that poor one 8.5 or 9.0 to fit with the others.

 

[misskarne]

Separate judging panels for TES and PCS

I admit I haven't read every detail of the thread, and from skimming I've seen some good ideas, but for my money the one single rule change that's needed (because I think it would have the most impact over all disciplines) is separate panels for Tech and PCS.

Yes, please do tell that to the club comp I officiated a couple of months ago that only barely managed to scrape three judges together. Do tell me how you're going to mandate split panels at that level. And no, saying "only at Championship" level is not an acceptable answer.

I'd stop trying to micromanage what skaters do on the ice by re-introducing 6.0

*misskarne immediately quits judging because she has no time for that arbitrary bullshit pile of a scoring system*

 

[bardtoob]

Make skating order for the SP determined by compulsory figures ranking, but compulsory figures do not contribute to the final points total.

 

[her grace]

Yes, please do tell that to the club comp I officiated a couple of months ago that only barely managed to scrape three judges together. Do tell me how you're going to mandate split panels at that level. And no, saying "only at Championship" level is not an acceptable answer.

Of course, it's an acceptable answer. At the championship level, three judges doesn't cut it now. So why should we design the championship level's judging system based on a random local club competition?

At the international elite level, have 10 judges, 5 do TES, 5 do PCS. That's only one more judge than now, and the judges should do a better job if they could focus on either the technical or component side. If that's not feasible for lower levels, club competitions, etc., then by all means combine the panels at those events.

 

[misskarne]

Of course, it's an acceptable answer. At the championship level, three judges doesn't cut it now. So why should we design the championship level's judging system based on a random local club competition?

At the international elite level, have 10 judges, 5 do TES, 5 do PCS. That's only one more judge than now, and the judges should do a better job if they could focus on either the technical or component side. If that's not feasible for lower levels, club competitions, etc., then by all means combine the panels at those events.

It's not an acceptable answer. So if it's gotta be in at Championship Events only, does this mean the GP, CS, JGP and other B events have two panels? Otherwise the scoring's not consistent, and GP events are assigned on scores. And if federations are trying to select skaters for these events at their own Nationals, then it should follow that their own Nationals should use the two-panel system. And then well it seems not quite right to use a different system at Nationals to the one the skaters qualified under, so you'd have to introduce it at the qualifying level too and oh look, now we're at the point where for a smaller federation it's completely unviable.

There are already so many inconsistent things in skating, let's not add different systems being used at the top level to it.

 

[her grace]

It's not an acceptable answer. So if it's gotta be in at Championship Events only, does this mean the GP, CS, JGP and other B events have two panels? Otherwise the scoring's not consistent, and GP events are assigned on scores. And if federations are trying to select skaters for these events at their own Nationals, then it should follow that their own Nationals should use the two-panel system. And then well it seems not quite right to use a different system at Nationals to the one the skaters qualified under, so you'd have to introduce it at the qualifying level too and oh look, now we're at the point where for a smaller federation it's completely unviable.

There are already so many inconsistent things in skating, let's not add different systems being used at the top level to it.

Geez louise, this isn't hard. Championships, GPs, and JGPs already have 9 judges. Add one and split the panels in half. CS events have 7. Add one judge and split the panels in half. So that's all the big internationals having a consistent system.

How many judges does Australia use now for its qualifying system? Either it somewhat mirrors international events and Aus. could just split the judging panels in half like I've suggested. Or it doesn't match what international competitions do already, and a change that should make the competitions fairer and hopefully encourange even better skating on the PCS side, shouldn't be held back because Australia doesn't have the resources to mirror it in local competitions.

 

[Vagabond]

The ISU did try separate panels for TES and PCS at Nebelhorn a few seasons ago. According to what was posted on FSU at the time, the PCS judges were most of the time during the programs. But I suppose that the ISU could institute an additional No rule.

 

[Dobre]

If they were just watching the programs, then maybe they would hammer said programs more and push those athletes to improve their presentation.

Right now, however, my priority would be rebalancing the difficulty mark and the GOE mark in dance. More options for GOE is fine, but right now it is overwhelming and minimizing the difficulty mark. The balance in the men's event, OTOH, is finally looking balanced this season.

 

[Spartacus]

Here's mine.
https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/th...e-offs-before-taking-opening-position.104870/

 

[Alilou]

Yes, please do tell that to the club comp I officiated a couple of months ago that only barely managed to scrape three judges together. Do tell me how you're going to mandate split panels at that level. And no, saying "only at Championship" level is not an acceptable answer.



*misskarne immediately quits judging because she has no time for that arbitrary bullshit pile of a scoring system*

I agree with the bullshit pile of a scoring system
re the other why is only at "championship level" not an acceptable answer?
Defining "championship level" could be a bit tricky but perhaps it would be all junior and senior international comps, and the feds could do what they want/are able for domestic comps.

 

[gkelly]

The ISU did try separate panels for TES and PCS at Nebelhorn a few seasons ago. According to what was posted on FSU at the time, the PCS judges were most of the time during the programs. But I suppose that the ISU could institute an additional No rule.

I thought it was that the GOE judges were bored most of the time.

Perhaps one set of judges should judge GOEs and Skating Skills (and maybe Transitions), and the other set can judge Performance, Composition, and Interpretation.

 

[Vagabond]

I thought it was that the GOE judges were bored most of the time.

You may well be right. I could look through the Archives, but the seems to be catching.

Either way, this is a rule change the ISU did consider, test, and reject not all that long ago.

 

[skateboy]

I'd love to see shorter and faster step sequences (that actually serve to interpret the music).

 

[starrynight]

Not strictly a rule change but related.

The tech score box at the top left hand of the screen. Mark any elements under review in yellow. The 'traffic light' system at the Olympics I'm sure helped casual fans understand a lot more what was going on, but now you've lost it. Highlighting the elements in yellow would I'm sure help them when scores are a lot less than you might expect e.g. the Eurosport commentators are still getting mightily confused, and if they're confused what is a casual fan going to make of it?

I think at some competitions this season they have been putting a simplified protocol up on the screen when the scores come up. This would be very handy for viewers who want to see what the final elements were, what levels, GOE etc were awarded because these can change upon review. I'd like that to become standard. It would sure help the audience understand how certain scores were reached.

 

[Rhino]

I think at some competitions this season they have been putting a simplified protocol up on the screen when the scores come up. This would be very handy for viewers who want to see what the final elements were, what levels, GOE etc were awarded because these can change upon review. I'd like that to become standard. It would sure help the audience understand how certain scores were reached.

I've always liked the idea of a drop down box of the element scores on the left hand side of the screen while replays of the skate are going on. That way viewers and commentators could see scores being adjusted in real time while reviews are going on, and I don't think it would impact on the replay, in fact it might help as you get maybe a dodgy jump or edge call, and the commentator can point to the actual element, and say that its score has indeed changed.

 

[Spun Silver]

I'd love to see shorter and faster step sequences (that actually serve to interpret the music).

I was trying to think of how to say that. I'm not positive whether it is speed or length, but there is such a difference between steps that go with the music/add to the program's impact and those that seem like random technical exercises to get bullet points. I'm not sure demanding good choreography for step sequences counts as a rule change though (?).

 

[gkelly]

For singles and pairs step sequences, there is one (mandatory) positive bullet point regarding the music: "Element matches the music." It's unclear exactly what that means: It matches the timing of the music (e.g., all new strokes on a downbeat)? Or it expresses the mood and style of the music chosen?

For the choreo sequence, that bullet point reads "Element matches the music and reflects the concept/character of the program."

For ice dance, there is currently one positive GOE feature "Reflects character and style of the chosen rhythm" for all elements including step sequences. For pattern dances (novice and below, not as part of short dances, as I understand, but I might be mistaken), there is another positive feature for "Timing accurate 100%."

Would it help for step sequences to have two possible bullet points related to the music? One something like "Timing matches the rhythm of the music" and another something like "Element reflects the concept/character of the program"? That way skaters who can do both can be rewarded twice, and those who only do one or the other get half the reward.

 

[Spun Silver]

For singles and pairs step sequences, there is one (mandatory) positive bullet point regarding the music: "Element matches the music." It's unclear exactly what that means: It matches the timing of the music (e.g., all new strokes on a downbeat)? Or it expresses the mood and style of the music chosen?

For the choreo sequence, that bullet point reads "Element matches the music and reflects the concept/character of the program."

For ice dance, there is currently one positive GOE feature "Reflects character and style of the chosen rhythm" for all elements including step sequences. For pattern dances (novice and below, not as part of short dances, as I understand, but I might be mistaken), there is another positive feature for "Timing accurate 100%."

Would it help for step sequences to have two possible bullet points related to the music? One something like "Timing matches the rhythm of the music" and another something like "Element reflects the concept/character of the program"? That way skaters who can do both can be rewarded twice, and those who only do one or the other get half the reward.

Yes. I think this is much less a problem in ice dance, maybe exactly because that discipline pays so much more attention to rhythm and character in music. What you suggest would reward singles and pairs for the same level of attunement. It would be a good kind of carrot, the kind that brings the horse along to the desired destination.

 

[Tak]

Separate judging panels for TES and PCS

That would be my second choice. My first would be to tie the GOE into the levels achieved. Levels 1 and 2 would be eligible for Goe of 1-3 points. Levels 3 and 4 would be eligible for Goe of 1-5 points.

This would encourage skaters to go for the higher levels and keep ice dance especially a real sport, instead of the performance art it's rapidly turning into.