If Kamila Valieva were allowed to compete against the top men...

[missing]

If Kamila Valieva were allowed to compete against the men, using men's rules and percentages, short and free programs, how well would she do against the top men?

I'm assuming everyone skates to the best of their abilities, the men's top scores against what Valieva has proven herself capable of doing (for example, she is capable of doing quad jumps, so since in men's rules she'd be allowed to do them in the short program, she'd be doing them), where would she rank?

I'm not saying Kamila age 15 against Nathan age 15. I'm saying right now. Would Kamila medal in the men's field at a 2021 Grand Prix? At the Olympics? At a top attended Worlds?

Bolster my illusions or shatter them. I'm more curious than committed.

 

[love_skate2011]

Kamila will get Jason like scores or even higher

saying that, Kamila is indeed I would say an "Omega" level skater in the ladies discipline

a Once in a Century skater, compare her to a year younger skater peers like Samodelkina, Petrosyan, Muarveiva, Akatieva she is way more refined. Just Look at Trusova she cant even land a triple axel.

A Skater that can land both quads and triple axel is remarkable, even men struggle with that !

 

[On My Own]

She'd lose on gold, but might end up top 3, because her jumps would be judged differently if everyone goes clean. She would/should still get nice PCS and spin GOE.

 

[soogar]

She'd lose on gold, but might end up top 3, because her jumps would be judged differently if everyone goes clean. She would/should still get nice PCS and spin GOE.

I think she would beat Jason, but men's skating is completely different. The guys have more power, bigger jumps and even their artistic elements like spins and footwork look better because they move faster and have more strength in their bodies. Many men have deeper edges as well and they aren't necessarily better skaters, just more foot strength.

 

[love_skate2011]

I think she would beat Jason, but men's skating is completely different. The guys have more power, bigger jumps and even their artistic elements like spins and footwork look better because they move faster and have more strength in their bodies. Many men have deeper edges as well and they aren't necessarily better skaters, just more foot strength.

Wasn't this question only for the SP scores ? If we'd use the mens scoring

Kamila can jump quads in SP not only the FS, She will beat Jason Brown
She's score higher than Mikhail Kolyada.

 

[soogar]

Wasn't this question only for the SP scores ? If we'd use the mens scoring

Kamila can jump quads in SP not only the FS, She will beat Jason Brown
She's score higher than Mikhail Kolyada.

You can use men's scoring for her. If you put her on the ice against men, you will see the difference even in the same elements. It is no slight against her, because women and men do the same jumps on paper but those jumps look different when men do them. I don't think she would score higher than Kolyada unless he splatted all over the place. Even if he fell on a quad, I still think he would get the nod in PCS and element quality. They would be judged back to back and she would look like a junior skater in comparison to the men.

 

[On My Own]

I think she would beat Jason, but men's skating is completely different. The guys have more power, bigger jumps and even their artistic elements like spins and footwork look better because they move faster and have more strength in their bodies. Many men have deeper edges as well and they aren't necessarily better skaters, just more foot strength.

I think she would beat Brown for sure because of the tech gap and agree about the jumps, the power across the ice, and depth of edge to an extent, but I do disagree about spins and the transitions/performance/interpretation components at least. I'll probably have to compare her spinning speed to that of men, but positions and centering is on par with the best, if not even better, and she can compete well on the three components I mentioned (the composition component is awful, courtesy of Daniil). Maybe that would indeed add up to not being top 3 anymore, though, but top 6-10 maybe makes sense.

 

[Vash01]

If Kamila Valieva were allowed to compete against the men, using men's rules and percentages, short and free programs, how well would she do against the top men?

I'm assuming everyone skates to the best of their abilities, the men's top scores against what Valieva has proven herself capable of doing (for example, she is capable of doing quad jumps, so since in men's rules she'd be allowed to do them in the short program, she'd be doing them), where would she rank?

I'm not saying Kamila age 15 against Nathan age 15. I'm saying right now. Would Kamila medal in the men's field at a 2021 Grand Prix? At the Olympics? At a top attended Worlds?

Bolster my illusions or shatter them. I'm more curious than committed.

She could win the bronze. Her SP score could be much higher if she was allowed to use the quads. I am not sure if that is included in your assumptions. Without a quad 90 is extraordinary but top men are scoring over 100 with two quads. If she lands two quads in the SP, she would be right up there, but not beating Chen.

Her LP has 3 quads and two 3A's. Top men are landing 4-6 quads, so I don't see her beating them there. It could still be good enough for a 3-5 finish.

 

[PatChan4O]

If everyone skates to the best of their ability, I’d say Kamila finishes in the top 5. Given her consistency, I’d say she’d medal at these Olympics, where everyone won’t.

 

[love_skate2011]

Kamila has both triple axel and quads, jumps that even most men struggle jumping with both.

we aren't talking a Trusova entering the men's field
who has deficit with triple axel.

 

[screech]

Kamila's 3a and quads are more powerful-looking and smooth than most of the men. I wouldn't see her being scored with lower GOE than the men (though I do think that some receive higher GOE than they should for their jumps).

 

[briancoogaert]

It depends how the judges would mark her PCS : would they be at their right level skating in the men category ?

 

[kwanfan1818]

She lost 9.7 points in the Euros SP due to the 80% factor, or nearly two points/component. I don't think she'd be scored only in the mid 7's in PCS, were she to land what she already lands cleanly. And if she were to land one or two quads in the SP, she would be very competitive.

Vincent Zhou attempted five quads in his US Nationals FS, and his total TES were lower than Jason Brown's.

 

[Seerek]

I don't think Kamila would receive the same element GOEs on the jumps if she competed in the men's event due to the reasons already stated. I think spin GOE would be closer.

Using men's European short program PCS as a guide

Skating Scores: Latest Figure Skating Results, Scores, Rankings & Statistics

The best resource for Figure Skating scores and stats on the web.

www.skatingscores.com

If we conclude she has objectively inferior top speed/ice coverage and depth of edge vs the top men, I'd say she gets PCs around the range of Shmuratko and Litvintsev.

Adding it all up, her overall TSS in the short probably would be around 7th place.

 

[love_skate2011]

I don't think Kamila would receive the same element GOEs on the jumps if she competed in the men's event due to the reasons already stated. I think spin GOE would be closer.

Using men's European short program PCS as a guide

Skating Scores: Latest Figure Skating Results, Scores, Rankings & Statistics

The best resource for Figure Skating scores and stats on the web.

www.skatingscores.com

If we conclude she has objectively inferior top speed/ice coverage and depth of edge vs the top men, I'd say she gets PCs around the range of Shmuratko and Litvintsev.

Adding it all up, her overall TSS in the short probably would be around 7th place.

Valieva is inferior to someone like Sememnenko in GOE jump elements , speed, ice coverage
and on level with Livintsevthe Azeri ? LOL

 

[soogar]

Kamila's 3a and quads are more powerful-looking and smooth than most of the men. I wouldn't see her being scored with lower GOE than the men (though I do think that some receive higher GOE than they should for their jumps).

Unless you have seen her do those jumps after a man's skate, I think it would be very hard to tell how good her jumps are.

Valieva is inferior to someone like Sememnenko in GOE jump elements , speed, ice coverage
and on level with Livintsevthe Azeri ? LOL

I think if you dressed her up like a boy and put her on the ice with the same elements, she would be judged like a junior skater in comparison with the men. I have not seen her skate in person, however I’ve seen men and women skate and the men are considerably faster with better ice coverage. Even spins are done better by men. They look better in the positions and hold them longer. Her triple axel will look tiny compared to those of men. Hanyu said that the women get into the jump earlier and start rotating where men jump higher and don’t rotate as early. As a spectator, the jumps will have more pop when they are slightly delayed and higher. Her jumps will just look tiny in comparison.

 

[love_skate2011]

Unless you have seen her do those jumps after a man's skate, I think it would be very hard to tell how good her jumps are.

I think if you dressed her up like a boy and put her on the ice with the same elements, she would be judged like a junior skater in comparison with the men. I have not seen her skate in person, however I’ve seen men and women skate and the men are considerably faster with better ice coverage. Even spins are done better by men. They look better in the positions and hold them longer. Her triple axel will look tiny compared to those of men. Hanyu said that the women get into the jump earlier and start rotating where men jump higher and don’t rotate as early. As a spectator, the jumps will have more pop when they are slightly delayed and higher. Her jumps will just look tiny in comparison.

did you check someone like Semenenkos triple axel?, it may have higher altitude but his take off is so wild and the jump exit is wonky compare that to Kamila that has better amptitude and is more balanced because of her rippon in the air.

 

[caseyedwards]

She would win obviously

 

[meer]

She'd score better than freaking Semenenko, but I'm not sure 3 quads and a 3A's would be as impressive in men when the top guys are doing 4-5 quads and 2 3A's, or attempting it. She's be judged more harshly in general, though let's be real her spins would still be all +5's and her PCS high. For all the talk, no Kamila could not win vs a clean YH or NC even with quads in the SP and she'd probably go neck and neck with Yuma. Though still impressive since I think she could probably beat 98% of the men, just not 100%.

 

[love_skate2011]

She'd score better than freaking Semenenko, but I'm not sure 3 quads and a 3A's would be as impressive in men when the top guys are doing 4-5 quads and 2 3A's, or attempting it. She's be judged more harshly in general, though let's be real her spins would still be all +5's and her PCS high. For all the talk, no Kamila could not win vs a clean YH or NC even with quads in the SP and she'd probably go neck and neck with Yuma. Though still impressive since I think she could probably beat 98% of the men, just not 100%.

Valieva could up it with 4 quads two in combo or two triple Axel one in combo + 3 quads.

 

[love_skate2011]

She would win obviously

some posts are so ridiculous as comparing er to Livitsev. that's just insulting even by both gender comparison. I made a post about Semene ko because he's a top Russia skater, his jumps are so wild and wonky.

 

[soogar]

some posts are so ridiculous as comparing er to Livitsev. that's just insulting even by both gender comparison. I made a post about Semene ko because he's a top Russia skater, his jumps are so wild and wonky.

His jumps might be wild and wonky but they are bigger than her jumps. I don't think she could even beat Nathan or Hanyu if they had a splat fest. Again, she has to be on ice with the guys for a back to back comparison. Things look way different in an arena than on television.

 

[love_skate2011]

His jumps might be wild and wonky but they are bigger than her jumps. I don't think she could even beat Nathan or Hanyu if they had a splat fest. Again, she has to be on ice with the guys for a back to back comparison. Things look way different in an arena than on television.

surely won't beat hanyu and Chen, but you compare scores like brown with no quad. Kamila will still be a medal contender with two triple Axel one combo + 3 quads or triple Axel with 4 quads two combo. Do the math on how Kolyadas 4 quad on that.

 

[soogar]

surely won't beat hanyu and Chen, but you compare scores like brown with no quad. Kamila will still be a medal contender with two triple Axel one combo + 3 quads or triple Axel with 4 quads two combo. Do the math on how Kolyadas 4 quad on that.

I do believe she can beat Brown with no quad. However if you put her on ice with Brown, he has bigger jumps than she does. He gets good height on his triple jumps. He probably skates faster than she does as well. What will happen to her GOE on her triples and even PCS if she has to compete and be compared with the men directly? I think all these girls are doing great things with their tech merit. There is footage of Trusova and Hanyu doing side by side quads and her quad looks great and matches his.

 

[Holy Headband]

If Kamila Valieva were allowed to compete against the men, using men's rules and percentages, short and free programs, how well would she do against the top men?

Terribly because her jumps would get judged correctly. Next question.

 

[briancoogaert]

I do believe she can beat Brown with no quad. However if you put her on ice with Brown, he has bigger jumps than she does. He gets good height on his triple jumps. He probably skates faster than she does as well. What will happen to her GOE on her triples and even PCS if she has to compete and be compared with the men directly? I think all these girls are doing great things with their tech merit. There is footage of Trusova and Hanyu doing side by side quads and her quad looks great and matches his.

Absolutely, plus, she is on flat (no edges) almost all the time, I hope Brown's PCS would be clearly higher than hers !

 

[umronnie]

Kamila's SP score from Euros, as is (i.e. no quads) would be worth 100.13 if PCS were not factored. That is the 4th highest score of the season, behind Chen (106.72 @ SC), Uno (102.58 @ NHK) and Yuma (100.64). Add in Hanyu who hasn't competed internationally and she is 5th.
Her FS score from Rostelecom, with men factoring for PCS, would be worth 204.54. Highest score of the season (so far) is Chen @ SC - 200.46
Make of it what you will.