I, Tonya

[meggonzo]

Tonya's patriotism, like pretty much anytime patriotism is gratuitously brought up out of context, is irrelevant and probably a smoke screen. The "lie" is that Diane wants us all to deny what we see with our own eyes and believe that the top US ladies never go to SA, never want to go to SA, would rather travel far to compete in other countries, namely one we were previously at war with, and Tonya was willing to slum it at the country's premier international event the other ladies don't respect, because she's a true American. It's not just flagrant bs, it's insidious accusations against her student's rivals. I found it downright smarmy.

I didn't think it had anything to do with her rivals, rather that they just wanted to prove that Tonya was patriotic and a good representative of the USFSA. It was really over the top though.

 

[meggonzo]

I really find it difficult to believe that Tonya didn't know she'd be an Olympian until a few days before the SP. I think she knew way ahead of that even if she had to go through monitoring sessions. I think it was ultimately her choice to head to Albertville a few days before the Ladies SP. She probably thought it was a good choice at the time and stuck by that story publicly until this movie. Yes, we have Rawlinson, who wasn't her coach during Albertville, being interviewed and saying that (though I think she was purposefully vague and didn't really give any time stamps or details about the monitoring sessions and when Tonya was given the OK to make that story garner sympathy because more details may have meant Tonya really had no reason why she arrived as late as she did and plus I don't know if she had direct knowledge), but Tonya never said that publicly as far as I know.

She didn't give time stamps because the interview was pre-whack and pre-internet, so she didn't know we'd be discussing the minutiae 25 years later.

 

[VGThuy]

She didn't give time stamps because the interview was pre-whack and pre-internet, so she didn't know we'd be discussing the minutiae 25 years later.

I think she was also making a big play for sympathy for Tonya as is what Rawlinson did best back then.

 

[bardtoob]

Tonya's patriotism, like pretty much anytime patriotism is gratuitously brought up out of context, is irrelevant and probably a smoke screen. The "lie" is that Diane wants us all to deny what we see with our own eyes and believe that the top US ladies never go to SA, never want to go to SA, would rather travel far to compete in other countries, namely one we were previously at war with, and Tonya was willing to slum it at the country's premier international event the other ladies don't respect, because she's a true American. It's not just flagrant bs, it's insidious accusations against her student's rivals. I found it downright smarmy.

Oh, you thought Rawlinson was playing politics. Ok. That makes sense.

 

[VGThuy]

A friend of mine just saw it. She doesn't know much about figure skating or Tonya. She said the movie really attempts to get you to sympathize with her but she personally didn't buy it. She did like the movie though.

 

[cmk]

The canadian judge from 94 olympics claimed to have been the referee at 93 skate america and she didn't think the blade was loose. It looked like it was coming loose to be. It should be noted that Tonya did pick up where she left off, and didn't reskate the whole program. The judge said the other judges told her to let her fix it and skate. I don't think the canadian judge is all that bright though- she also said even without the whack and Tonya skating her absolute best she had no shot at a medal which is bs. She was better than the silver medalist Nancy(who did not deserve the gold and that skate was not flawless- doubled flip, sloppy 2axel, 2nd 3toe was underrotated, spins were not the best, and the lack of speed ). I could see Oksana beating her on the presentation mark and winning , but Tonya was better than Nancy.
Josee was not a legitimate medal contender either and was also too far back under the scoring system used at the time to get a medal. Even without the broken shoelace, Josee would have fallen anyway (like she did at worlds with no Tonya in sight.

The Canadian judges comment on Harding are accurate. Harding's best by 94 would have been like what she did at the 94 Nationals and event that never medals unless almost all the favorites mess up. Great quality jumps but no jump combinations ala Baiul, only 4 triples and a 5th two footed one (triple toe), pretty good spins, but sure to get much lower artistic marks than the top contenders and lesser jump content with that too, and a lower reputation having not been a real contender since 91. As it was with Bonaly, Sato, and Josee all making major mistakes in one or both programs it might have gotten her 4th place had she duplicated it at the Games, but that is it. And she rarely skated at the level she did at even the 94 Nationals by that point, usually she was far worse than she was there.

Harding without a triple axel had no shot of a medal, and she wasnt even able to do a triple axel anymore. She landed maybe 10% of the ones she tried in practice which into competition where it is far harder to do jumps you struggle on would translate into about 0% shot. She never had any triple-triples other than the triple toe-triple toe but she wasnt even doing that anymore by 84 either. So her jump content without the triple axel is way behind Bonaly (who was doing triple-triples, 2 lutzes, trying 7 or 8 triples per perogram), also considerably behind Kerrigan and Chen, and even behind Sato and Choinaurd, maybe on par with Baiul at most. Add to that weaker artistry and by then lower reputation having allowed herself to plummet way down the ranks with her 92 and 93 problems, and of course even at her best she wasnt a big factor by that point.

Ironically despite the 92 field being tougher she had much more shot in 92 than 94. Skating reasonably well she was certain to medal in 92, and with neither Ito or Yamaguchi being at their best her performances from the 91 Nationals or 91 Skate America likely would have won gold in Albertville. That was her blown opportunity, 94 was never much of a shot even pre whack.

I don't really think we should criticize Nancy for a 3toe being UR in a 3/3 combo when the only combo Oksana could manage was a sloppy 2axel/2toe at the end of her program. I never noticed that the second 3toe was under anyways. Did anyone else even attempt a 3/3 that competition?

Bonaly had 3/3, and 3/halfloop/3 . Tonya beat Oksana in the short at Skate America in 94, but the blade problem in the long dropped her to 3rd overall. No one knows what happened at nhk because for dumb reason the network didn't tape her programs but I have read conflicting versions including fall on 3lutz, landed 3 lutz barely, landed 3 lutz perfectly- but since it wasn't taped, no one will ever know what really happened except the other people at the event. As for 93 nationals- everyone except Ervin and Kwan skated poorly. I wouldn't of had Kerrigan on top there either. Of course, Michelle was a newly minted senior, and Ervin, while a pleasant skater to watch, didn't have enough triple jumps ( only up to the loop) to be competitive at the senior level. I probably would of given the 93 title to Nicole , Tonya 2nd, and either Ervin or Tonia K 3rd. I liked Tonya's footloose program in the short. Tonya's 94 national performance was definitely enough to medal. Her artisty was not weaker than the other girls if you go by what presentation was supposed to measure (speed, flow, power, line, edge quality), and not on the basis of how much the costume cost. Nancy was not as good as they made her out to be and got inflated scores because they liked the way she looked. ( I never thought she was pretty- thought she looked like a cross between a horse ( those teeth) and quite frankly she could pass for Brennan's twin.)

 

[bardtoob]

I DO NOT KNOW HOW ACCURATE THIS IS!

I wanted to find out what all this business was about NHK Trophy 1993. I went on the more sketchy parts of the internet, like defunct message boards circa 1996 that are archived, etc. , and here is what I found:

1) Tonya divorced Jeff in August of 1993.

3) Tonya was not invited to the 1993 Hershey Pro-Am while Lisa Ervin, Tonia Kwiatkowski, and Nancy Kerrigan were along with Caryn Kadavy and Jill Trenary, which was considered a bad sign by Tonya. It does look like this was supposed to be a coronation for Kerrigan, but Nancy did not skate well and was holding back tears as she lost to Caryn Kadavy

2) Tonya won the SP at Skate America 1993 but finished 3rd after her blade began to come off during the LP

3) Tonya went to NHK 1993 and made an error of an unclear level of seriousness on her jump combination and was placed 7th in the SP. Apparently, the judges were split in the SP with half the judges placing Tonya in the top 3 while the others placed Tonya far lower; the term "the inexperienced judges" came up multiple times and skating order.

Surya Bonaly fell on her combination and completed neither jump of the combination and was placed 3rd in the SP.

Chen Lu fell on her combination and completed neither jump of the combination and was placed 4th in the SP.

In the LP, the skater that placed 2nd in the SP, Lyudmyla Ivanova, had a disastrous skate, which opened up the podium dramatically.

Moreover, Yuka Sato, who was 1st in the SP, did not perform well in the LP but finished 3rd in both the LP and overall. It is speculated that Yuka finished 3rd in the freeskate only because of home field advantage at NHK, but Tonya actually skated better than Yuka in terms of technical content.

Overall, Tonya finished 4th at 1993 NHK, but it is speculated that Tonya probably should have gotten bronze if placed correctly in the SP and not held down in the LP. Surya skated very well in the LP, so her win in the LP and overall is not disputed.

4) Tonya returned home from 1993 NHK Trophy very upset.

5) Somehow, Tonya and Jeff got back together and Tonya removed the restraining order she had placed on Jeff. Jeff apparently comforted Tonya after the 1993 NHK result.

6) After NHK Jeff started developing the plot because he thought Nancy would have been supported better than Tonya had the same thing happened to Nancy at 1993 NHK that had happened to Tonya.

I DO NOT KNOW HOW ACCURATE THIS IS!

 

[SmallFairy]

@bardtoob

 

[SkateGuard]

4) Tonya returned home from 1993 NHK Trophy very upset.

Out of curiosity, I took a look on Proquest for Canadian articles about that particular NHK Trophy. Lots of stuff on Brasseur and Eisler winning the pairs event, but aside from that the articles just mention the winners and results of the Canadian skaters who went. Nothing on Tonya, but I did find this in the July 14, 1994 issue of "Rolling Stone" magazine:

"Signs were posted all through the December 1993 issue of The Skater [Tonya's fan newsletter]. Four separate articles reviled malefactors scattered across the globe from Tokyo Bay, Japan, to Cape Cod, Mass., yet the theme of each was the same: Life isn't fair, especially to Tonya Harding. Skating crowns Kerrigan, shouted the headline over an article complaining that the USFSA's official magazine had featured Tonya's archrival on the cover just before the 1994 Nationals in Detroit. The longest piece in the newsletter reported the results of the recent NHK Trophy tournament in Japan, the last major international competition before the 1994 Olympics, at which judges had placed Tonya behind Surya Bonaly and Chen Lu of China, both of whom 'fell on their butts,' as it was described so succinctly by Tonya herself, who wanted fans to know 'I was gypped.'"

 

[bardtoob]

The longest piece in the newsletter reported the results of the recent NHK Trophy tournament in Japan, the last major international competition before the 1994 Olympics, at which judges had placed Tonya behind Surya Bonaly and Chen Lu of China, both of whom 'fell on their butts,' as it was described so succinctly by Tonya herself, who wanted fans to know 'I was gypped.'"

There is something very strange about Tonya's SP at the 1993 NHK Trophy . . . that is that some say Tonya was "clean", some say Tonya "fell", while some say that "she didn't fall", but she clearly did no worse than Chen Lu or Surya Bonaly, who, in fact, did fall but still managed to place in the top two spots overall and were placed much higher than Tonya in the SP.

 

[bardtoob]

There were multiple political forces that Tonya faced, but most people oversimplify the issue.

Tonya -
---------------------------
Con: No politically powerful coach
Con: Did not present the image the USFSA likes.
Con: Not favored by the Olympic Eligible tour promoter
Con: Unpredictable competitive performances (She might land 7 Triples including the 3A. She might land 3 Triples.)
Pro: Exceedingly talented

Trenary and Kerrigan -
----------------------------
Pro: Politically powerful coach
Pro: Presented the image the USFSA likes.
Pro: Favored by the Olympic Eligible tour promoter
Pro: Predictable competitive performances (We know what she can land, not much. Probably 4 triples, maybe 5)
Con: Talented enough

For thoroughness, let's include Yamaguchi.

Kristi-
----------------------------
Con: No politically powerful coach
Pro: Presented the image the USFSA likes.
Con: Not favored by the Olympic Eligible tour promoter
Pro: Predictable competitive performances (Will land 5 or 6 Triple but never the 3S or 3A)
Pro: More than talented enough
----------------------------

It is actually pretty easy to see why Kristi was successful. Her strengths were her ability and training.

Tonya has admitted, herself, that she would have trained harder and more consistently if she could do it over again, which probably would have allowed her to overcome all the strikes against her. People around sports love hard workers.

3) Tonya was not invited to the 1993 Hershey Pro-Am while Lisa Ervin, Tonia Kwiatkowski, and Nancy Kerrigan were along with Caryn Kadavy and Jill Trenary, which was considered a bad sign by Tonya. It does look like this was supposed to be a coronation for Kerrigan, but Nancy did not skate well and was holding back tears as she lost to Caryn Kadavy

Hmmm . . . All the female skaters (Cadavy, Kerrigan, Ervin, Trenary, Kwiatkowski) at the 1993 Hershey Pro-Am:

- Were former or present students of Carol Heiss, Carlo Fassi, or Evy Scotvold (Note: No Yamaguchi, Thomas, or Harding)
- Presented the image the USFSA liked
- Clearly favored by the Olympic Eligible tour promoters . . . because they were invited to the event!
- None were predictable in competition
- Talented enough

It is funny that in the fluff, both Trenary and Cadavy were asked if they would come back to eligible competition.

 

[Frau Muller]

Saw the film last night in DC. Spectacular! Definite Oscar contender in at least some acting categories. Will we be seeing the real Tonya walking the red carpet on Oscars night as part of the film’s delegation?

 

[bardtoob]

3) Tonya went to NHK 1993 and made an error of an unclear level of seriousness on her jump combination and was placed 7th in the SP. Apparently, the judges were split in the SP with half the judges placing Tonya in the top 3 while the others placed Tonya far lower; the term "the inexperienced judges" came up multiple times and skating order.

Surya Bonaly fell on her combination and completed neither jump of the combination and was placed 3rd in the SP.

Chen Lu fell on her combination and completed neither jump of the combination and was placed 4th in the SP.

In the LP, the skater that placed 2nd in the SP, Lyudmyla Ivanova, had a disastrous skate, which opened up the podium dramatically.

Moreover, Yuka Sato, who was 1st in the SP, did not perform well in the LP but finished 3rd in both the LP and overall. It is speculated that Yuka finished 3rd in the freeskate only because of home field advantage at NHK, but Tonya actually skated better than Yuka in terms of technical content.

Overall, Tonya finished 4th at 1993 NHK, but it is speculated that Tonya probably should have gotten bronze if placed correctly in the SP and not held down in the LP. Surya skated very well in the LP, so her win in the LP and overall is not disputed.

The only 1993 fall competition that Kerrigan did was Piruetten . . . and Nancy fell on the combination in the SP

Nancy Kerrigan (USA) - 1993 Piruetten, Figure Skating, Ladies' Technical Program

Its just like Lulu and Surya!

Conversely, we know Tonya could deliver a clean short program with the exact same combination Nancy, Surya, and Lulu were doing AND beat Oksana while doing it.

Tonya Harding - 1993 Skate America, Ladies' Technical Program

. . .

ETA:

Oksana also could not produce a clean SP in the fall of 1993.

At Nations she stepped out of the combination but still did the jumps.

Oksana Baiul (UKR) - 1993 Nations Cup on Ice, Ladies' Technical Program

At Skate America she did a 2Lz-2T

Oksana Baiul 1993 Skate America SP Swan Lake

 

[berthesghost]

It is funny that in the fluff, both Trenary and Cadavy were asked if they would come back to eligible competition.

funny odd or funny haha?

The returning pros was the big news at that time, so asking two famous skaters competing at a competition if they are considering a return seems downright mundane and predictable.

If you meant their technical competitiveness, considering that the two ladies who did return were Elaine and Kat, both of whom finished surprising well (much higher than expected IMO) then again it seems almost mundane.

93-94 were like the coulda woulda shoulda years for ladies and Jump difficulty. Nobody was trying anything terribly difficult and even then they could rarely or barely land what they were trying.

 

[bardtoob]

93-94 were like the coulda woulda shoulda years for ladies and Jump difficulty. Nobody was trying anything terribly difficult and even then they could rarely or barely land what they were trying.

I noticed! Nancy, Oksana, Lulu, and Surya were all screwing up the SP Jump Combination during fall.

The only skater for possibly the whole fall to do clean SPs with a good jump combination among those doing the 3Lz-2T was Tonya!

Lulu did manage a clean very good SP at Skate Canada.

Surya did manage a clean SP at the French International (Lalique, Du France . . . yada yada yada)

 

[VGThuy]

I DO NOT KNOW HOW ACCURATE THIS IS!

I wanted to find out what all this business was about NHK Trophy 1993. I went on the more sketchy parts of the internet, like defunct message boards circa 1996 that are archived, etc. , and here is what I found:

1) Tonya divorced Jeff in August of 1993.

3) Tonya was not invited to the 1993 Hershey Pro-Am while Lisa Ervin, Tonia Kwiatkowski, and Nancy Kerrigan were along with Caryn Kadavy and Jill Trenary, which was considered a bad sign by Tonya. It does look like this was supposed to be a coronation for Kerrigan, but Nancy did not skate well and was holding back tears as she lost to Caryn Kadavy

2) Tonya won the SP at Skate America 1993 but finished 3rd after her blade began to come off during the LP

3) Tonya went to NHK 1993 and made an error of an unclear level of seriousness on her jump combination and was placed 7th in the SP. Apparently, the judges were split in the SP with half the judges placing Tonya in the top 3 while the others placed Tonya far lower; the term "the inexperienced judges" came up multiple times and skating order.

Surya Bonaly fell on her combination and completed neither jump of the combination and was placed 3rd in the SP.

Chen Lu fell on her combination and completed neither jump of the combination and was placed 4th in the SP.

In the LP, the skater that placed 2nd in the SP, Lyudmyla Ivanova, had a disastrous skate, which opened up the podium dramatically.

Moreover, Yuka Sato, who was 1st in the SP, did not perform well in the LP but finished 3rd in both the LP and overall. It is speculated that Yuka finished 3rd in the freeskate only because of home field advantage at NHK, but Tonya actually skated better than Yuka in terms of technical content.

Overall, Tonya finished 4th at 1993 NHK, but it is speculated that Tonya probably should have gotten bronze if placed correctly in the SP and not held down in the LP. Surya skated very well in the LP, so her win in the LP and overall is not disputed.

4) Tonya returned home from 1993 NHK Trophy very upset.

5) Somehow, Tonya and Jeff got back together and Tonya removed the restraining order she had placed on Jeff. Jeff apparently comforted Tonya after the 1993 NHK result.

6) After NHK Jeff started developing the plot because he thought Nancy would have been supported better than Tonya had the same thing happened to Nancy at 1993 NHK that had happened to Tonya.

I DO NOT KNOW HOW ACCURATE THIS IS!

All that sounds accurate and plausible to me. I really do think that NHK somehow became the trigger for the whack after holding so much resentment inside. Even if Tonya didn’t plan it, I’m sure Jeff was hearing about how unfair everything was and if only Nancy was out of the way, she’d be getting all that perceived Fed support as America’s only hope.

 

[Vagabond]

The link posted on Dec 14th is from a 2010 interview, not 1992

Did anyone ever claim that it was 1992? No.

I did see an interview with Rawlinson where she said the olympic committee was monitoring her and she had to pass 3 test skates before she could go to Albertville. Its on you tube, and its either 93 or 94.

If you listen to the rest of that piece on Youtube, you will hear Rawlinson say things that make it clear that the interview took place while Rawlinson was actively coaching Harding, not in 2010.

If you compare the video of Rawlinson in that Youtube video with her photograph from 2005 in my link in Post #483, you will see that she is clearly much younger (about eleven years younger, in fact) in the video than she is in the photograph.

The clip may be from some a program made in 2010, but the interview itself is from 1993 or 1994, as cmk said.

 

[casken]

4) Tonya returned home from 1993 NHK Trophy very upset.

5) Somehow, Tonya and Jeff got back together and Tonya removed the restraining order she had placed on Jeff. Jeff apparently comforted Tonya after the 1993 NHK result.

6) After NHK Jeff started developing the plot because he thought Nancy would have been supported better than Tonya had the same thing happened to Nancy at 1993 NHK that had happened to Tonya.

I DO NOT KNOW HOW ACCURATE THIS IS!

One thing I always gave the "made for TV" Tonya and Nancy movie that aired in the 90s credit for (Which someone has finally re-uploaded to Youtube!), was that it got a lot of little details right about stuff that I never heard anywhere else at that time. I had been following the Tonya/Nancy story religiously since it broke at the time, but I never heard anything about the NHK angle before the TV movie. Besides the loss itself, the movie also mentions her being dropped from touring and having her "money cut off" becuase of that loss. Did that actually happen?

One thing I do know, it's remarkably hard to find detailed information about this event despite the fact that the judging and the results were supposedly the catalyst for the attack on Nancy Kerrigan, but CBS does have a copy of Tonya's skate there.

The piece claims "she did not skate well", but who knows? We're not going to be allowed to judge for ourselves.

6) After NHK Jeff started developing the plot because he thought Nancy would have been supported better than Tonya had the same thing happened to Nancy at 1993 NHK that had happened to Tonya.

After seeing how Kerrigan was marked at 92 worlds, I can see why he would have thought that. He was probably right too.

 

[VGThuy]

OMG! I LIVED for that TV movie. So glad to be able to watch it again. I really do wonder if I, Tonya took a page out of this one.

 

[casken]

OMG! I LIVED for that TV movie. So glad to be able to watch it again. I really do wonder if I, Tonya took a page out of this one.

The audio is messed up from about 14:00 to 24:00 minutes, but it's great to be able to see it again. It's remarkable how close they got on the costumes for probably a fraction of the budget of the current movie. Kerrigan's black 91 dress looks so close it makes me wonder if they got hold of the actual dress.

 

[Quintuple]

Hi Team (I feel like we're all co-workers lightly touching the same project),

Scattered thoughts:

I saw the movie two nights ago, alone and up close (which was a he-said she-said saga in and of itself, to the point where my Lyft driver had to park and bang her head against the steering wheel because she was so irritated on my behalf about my Jenny Jones episode-worthy relationship with my "best friend"), and these are some reactions:

The violence was really jarring. Several different people, both men and women, let out some primal yelps when Tonya was hit. We're used to seeing violence in movies and in every day life all the time, but something about the way the film depicting it was really traumatic.

I was bugged yet somewhat entertained by the way they mixed up the costumes, music, and choreography. It was a weird Greatest Hits of Tonya's routines (e.g. I think Skate America 1986 had the right deep blue dress, but the French braid of 1989, and yet the vocal version of the 1990 and 1991 short program; and although they used Jurassic Park for purple cut-out dress 1994 Nationals, it morphed in to this even more grandiose Jurassic-like music for the 1994 Olympics.)

There's no way I can have an opinion on the actual events - I didn't live through them. So my mind compartmentalized this as a fictitious movie, so it wasn't a question of sympathy or not for me. The character of Tonya in this movie was absolutely abused to a ridiculous agree, kinda sorta knew that Jeff was up to some bs with Nancy (I actually felt it was confusing - it seemed like they were in on the death threat to Tonya together in 1993/94 Regionals, then she was surprised when he told her it was he who executed it; then it seemed like it was obvious she knew that he was trying to engineer death threats or any other open-ended malicious attack on Nancy, but suddenly she doesn't even know that Jeff's supposed intent was just to send death threat letters?). I actually thought it wasn't a device of the film switching unreliable narrators, but just a few plot holes.

And certainly the final message about there not being such a thing as the truth - I actually didn't quite get the desired Rashomon effect throughout the film either. What was loud and clear, though, was the indictment of us, the audience, assuming we were both there with in 1994 and now in theaters. I actually love that Tonya screamed at us, when it came time to address the whack, "WELL THIS IS WHAT YOU'RE ALL HERE FOR!" It was very Tonya, and actually true to some degree. And the final, final message about violence and America's bloodlust for knowing how crappy other peoples' lives might be rang true.

I've waded in and out of analysis about the era (to the point of trying to actually get through this book: https://www.worldcat.org/title/wome...hardingnancy-kerrigan-spectacle/oclc/32922466), and in my purview as a teenager in the era, the saga was definitely the seed of reality TV, and the 24-hour news cycle not just for celebrities but for regular-citizen phenomena.

So overall, the film didn't quite scratch the itch of bringing anything new to the story, depicting Tonya's supposed badass and superior skating style; but it did make me think how much the rest of your life can be messed up by living in abuse for so long.

Also, if you live in Phoenix, there's going to be a Tonya costume contest and screening on January 6: https://drafthouse.com/news/i-tonya-costume-contest-screening

(@Vash01 , we need photos)


OK, other random thoughts:

I've been poring over Tonya routines lately, and I've got a ton of tabs open for all the articles you all have linked (let me refresh my glass of juice first).

To a degree, I grew up with abuse (but of the more "accepted" '80s variety of plain old spanking, being yelled at every day, and being made to feel like my own father hates everything I am and do), so I somewhat get both sides of the fence in terms of sympathies towards Tonya. My closest friend does say I'm about 100x harder on myself than anyone else is and that I am on anyone else, and if I could just forgive myself and be confident, I'd be a lot happier. At the same time, I do feel like I need to just snap my fingers and get over it; that I have no excuses for my bad behavior (my bad behavior being doormat-y workaholic depressive patterns).

My position: None of us can really know what happened to Tonya and whether it's fair or not that it's carried over in to the rest of her life, and why she just can't snap her fingers and overcome. I think it's absolutely believable that Tonya's mother regularly abused her (not just once), and to me, that's enough to f*ck you up for life and struggle to stop sabotaging yourself at every corner. To get the same old thing from the person you fell in love with kicks it up. Then, and this is where it gets most dicey, if we're to believe Tonya's 2009 interview with Oprah about how the entire gang of four actually raped Tonya, and sexual abuse did happen throughout her life (e.g. marital rape), then all I feel is sadness and sympathy.

I can completely see all that abuse suddenly turning a corner in Tonya's mind when she was mature enough to start releasing her reaction to all of it. She channels it in to having to constantly be defensive, which comes out as disingenuous, whereas to the people who really deserve justice for what they did to her (mom, Jeff, etc.) - she understandably just gave up on it and decided to move on (for her own self-protective health and because there probably is no appropriate justice for all that abuse).

I think Tonya intelligently senses how ridiculous her situation is, and the multi-layered effect of her social indictment, it's just she can't articulate it well. So it comes out as angry and pig-headed, so we judge her more. She absolutely should be responsible for being the best person she can be, not mistreating others, but I can't imagine how torturous it must be to constantly have to go back to one really messed up several-month era of your life, and it feel like the 23 years of abuse that lead up to it don't matter.

So I can imagine how the "not my fault" mentality was channeled through self-defense. Innately she knows she shouldn't be abused by her mom or husband and it's unfair, so now she feels abused by a lot of other people.

(See, I'm trying to connect the dots here and am being inarticulate, so I get her frustration!)

Anyhow, about the skating:

I can't paint with a giant brush stroke and say all of Tonya's results were fair or not fair. But I do have some thoughts:

I'm also bewildered by how it seemed her presentation and musicality in 1986 were far better than the rest of her performances.

She did always have graceful arm flow and carriage, and nice "dance" hands.

There were moments when she did connect with her music and overall her presentation felt dynamic, like in her 1991 Worlds SP, and even in the slow overused saxophone part of 1991 Skate America LP.

Other than that, though, Tonya is beyond stiff and clunky. It's frustrating to watch, because I feel like she doesn't care about the program at all when she skates most of the time. She seems to be conserving energy for her jumps to a fault. And this is a really dumb statement, but I feel like if she just mentally "stretched" her moves out more, hit the highlights, she absolutely would have been perceived as still competitive in 1993/4.

I think the most telling is the 1992 Olympics. Having just watched the NHK HD videos, Nancy absolutely *appears* to be more polished in her basic presentation. But damn was each jump a struggle. Both the 3lz and 3loop were really underrotated, the 3flip was strong but tight on the landing, and the 3sal was tiny. So really, she had one strong 3toe that led to a botched combination and a regular old 2a.

But in the NHK footage, I think it's also clear that Tonya's technical content wasn't necessarily head and shoulders above either. The jumps are bigger, better in trajectory, generally better landings, jump for jump, but then you have those 2foot landings. And the lackluster presentation (not as stiff and disengaged as later in her career, but getting there).

The problem is, trusting the SP placements, the math doesn't really add up anyway. The is the most generous I can possibly get:

1) and 2) Kristi and Midori
3) Tonya
4) Chen Lu
5) Nancy

(But really I think Chen Lu should have been 3rd in the LP, Tonya and Nancy are right next to each other, and Surya and Yuka shouldn't be above them.) So at the very best, Tonya and Nancy are only 2 placements apart in the LP, which isn't enough for Tonya to take bronze, and thus starts the rolling stone of Nancy being above Tonya unfairly in every single competition in Tonya's mind. If that's indeed what Tonya thought.

But of course it was about the endorsements and ice princess crap too.

Speaking of which: the pink dress. Awww. The film depicts Tonya making the dress as a neutral attempt to fit in - not a f*ck you, more of a "I think this is what they want, so I'll give it to them" (to follow the speech patterns of LaVonna).

But awwww, the actual video of the 1990 pink Nationals dress. It actually comes off as "I'm trying as hard as I can! Is this what you want? I hope you like me and think I'm pretty now!" And then the totally disparate music and choreography.

And really - what's the difference between Tonya's homemade pink dress and Oksana's 1994 Olympics showgirl dress? Some fur shoulders and a lighter shade of pink, that's all. If only I could go back in time and have Tonya choose a lighter fabric than the Pepto she had on.

Oh wait, there's more.

Apparently there's going to be ANOTHER 2-hour show about Tonya, on ABC, in mid-January.

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertai...c-news-truth-lies-interview-article-1.3711746


There's one clip I can't find again about Tonya living in a small town, driving her Jeep she fixed up, from the late 2000s. It's just about how she enjoys the Pacific NW, and has nothing to do with Nancy or skating. It's the most genuinely happy and relaxed I've ever seen Tonya on film.


To close (sorry), the most heartbreaking moment in the film to me was the skate lace scene.

Watching it live in 1994, I thought, "She's faking it to get to as close as the final group as possible!"

But maybe she really did have way more equipment problems than most and was disorganized enough to have not prepared for something like this.

And maybe, like the Canadian judge said, she really latched on to the strategy of stopping and making a scene (as to how that would possibly translate to higher scores and placements in her mind, I have no idea).

Because it really could have been all planned. I mean, why would the spare lace they happen to have be one that's not fit for really lacing up a skate?

But in watching the film, for the first time, I felt like the crying was due to the pressure of Tonya's months of media circus and years of abuse all coming crashing down. That she's trying to put on a brave face for her figure skating presentation and can't take it anymore. I felt really bad.

So I rewatched the make-up scene, where originally I thought she was trying to practice the happy presentation despite her tears:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iY2NLPKpK1Q

But maybe she was practicing her tears as well ...

 

[Vagabond]

And really - what's the difference between Tonya's homemade pink dress and Oksana's 1994 Olympics showgirl dress?

Tonya's dress was much more tasteful.

 

[Inessence]

Tonya I believe had extra eyelets drilled into her skates for more support. She didn’t use the L-shaped lace wrap things (sorry I don’t know their proper name) so her boots required extra-long laces.

 

[Clay]

3) Tonya went to NHK 1993 and made an error of an unclear level of seriousness on her jump combination and was placed 7th in the SP. Apparently, the judges were split in the SP with half the judges placing Tonya in the top 3 while the others placed Tonya far lower; the term "the inexperienced judges" came up multiple times and skating order.

Not confirmed, but there was also a rumor that Harding skated first in the short program and fell on the combination jump. Sports Illustrated also reported that she fell on the combination jump, but there were a few reporting errors in the piece overall.
Along with Paul Wylie's 1991 Worlds skate, Lu Chen 97 Qualifying, these 93 NHK programs would be great to see. It WAS filmed by CBS as they showed 2-3 second clip, but never aired in their entirety

 

[cmk]

One thing I always gave the "made for TV" Tonya and Nancy movie that aired in the 90s credit for (Which someone has finally re-uploaded to Youtube!), was that it got a lot of little details right about stuff that I never heard anywhere else at that time. I had been following the Tonya/Nancy story religiously since it broke at the time, but I never heard anything about the NHK angle before the TV movie. Besides the loss itself, the movie also mentions her being dropped from touring and having her "money cut off" becuase of that loss. Did that actually happen?

One thing I do know, it's remarkably hard to find detailed information about this event despite the fact that the judging and the results were supposedly the catalyst for the attack on Nancy Kerrigan, but CBS does have a copy of Tonya's skate there.

The piece claims "she did not skate well", but who knows? We're not going to be allowed to judge for ourselves.



After seeing how Kerrigan was marked at 92 worlds, I can see why he would have thought that. He was probably right too.

Rosenberg dropped her as a client shortly after 93 nhk, at which point Jeff took over as money moocher (everyone knows he was using her as a meal ticket ) er manager. Jeff was also the reason for the 92 coaching switch from Dody back to Dianne. I do feel classifying her as a coach hopper is a bit unfair because she only had 2 different coaches. The 89 switch form Diane to Dody's was Diane's idea.
I know she did Champions on ice in 91 and 92, and Collins dropped her from the tour in 93, and supposedly as a joke told her he didn't want her on the 94 title after winning nationals. (I'm not sure he was really joking though, and she wasn't one of Scott's favorites Without the whack, Dorothy might of hired her for ice capades (before she lost it in bankruptcy due to her own greedy husband.) Post-whack, Dorothy didn't because of the felony conviction ( it should of been a misdemeanor- as far I know she had no prior convictions for anything).

 

[jenniferlyon]

As someone who didn't closely follow "the incident" in 94 and knew even less about Harding before 94, all I can say is wow ... I had no idea there was so much drama around Tonya even before "the incident." Just the times of equipment malfunction alone outnumbered that of Nathan Chen (although Chen's career is still young). Plus the drama around going to 92 Olys late. Do any other top skaters regularly have a bodyguard? I can imagine Hanyu having one nowadays but any American skaters? No wonder the media found (and still find) Harding fascinating. I would too, if I were in that business.

No, most skaters didn't have bodyguards back then. However, in 1993, tennis player Monica Seles was stabbed during a major tennis tournament. IIRC, the assailant was a fan of rival tennis player Steffi Graf. In fact, when Nancy was first attacked, the Seles attack was the first thought that popped into my head, as it had happened less than a year beforehand. So Tonya might have thought she needed a bodyguard because of what happened to Seles.

 

[skateboy]

In fact, when Nancy was first attacked, the Seles attack was the first thought that popped into my head, as it had happened less than a year beforehand.

That's so interesting... the Seles attack was the first thing that popped into my head, too. I figured Nancy was attacked by a crazed Tonya fan, or maybe an Oksana fan.

 

[Coco]

I wonder if the Seles attack planted a seed in Jeff's head.

 

[bardtoob]

Not confirmed, but there was also a rumor that Harding skated first in the short program and fell on the combination jump. Sports Illustrated also reported that she fell on the combination jump, but there were a few reporting errors in the piece overall.
Along with Paul Wylie's 1991 Worlds skate, Lu Chen 97 Qualifying, these 93 NHK programs would be great to see. It WAS filmed by CBS as they showed 2-3 second clip, but never aired in their entiretyentiret

I believe this is the article you are referring to:

https://www.si.com/vault/1994/02/14...rigan-assault-were-at-once-goons-and-buffoons

which says:

It began with a fourth-place finish in China, Japan, a result that, except in the mind of Tonya Harding, could not have been less extraordinary. Competing for something called the NHK Trophy, Harding fell on her combination jump in the technical program, a disastrous error, which eventuated in her being beaten by three of the best skaters in the world, Surya Bonaly of France, Yuka Sato of Japan and Lu Chen of China.

CLEARLY, CHINA IS NOT IN JAPAN, which it says in the first sentence, among other errors, that make the article rather unbelievable. Of course, it also fails to report Surya's and Lulu's falls, which would have made Tonya, at worst, about equally as bad if she did, in fact, fall. It also does not say the placements, which are interesting because the 2nd place skater in the SP bombed the LP and Yuka did not perform well enough to maintain her lead in LP either.

Rank Name Nation SP FS
1 Surya Bonaly

France 3 1
2 Yuka Sato

Japan 1 3
3 Chen Lu

China 4 2
4 Tonya Harding

United States 7 4
5 Kumiko Koiwai

Japan 5 5
6 Lyudmyla Ivanova

Ukraine 2 7
7 Karen Preston

Canada 5 6
8 Rena Inoue

Japan 12 8
9 Zhang Bo

China 11 9
10 Tatiana Malinina

Uzbekistan 10 10
11 Laëtitia Hubert

France 9 11
12 Kateřina Beránková

Czech Republic 8 12

In contrast, in this book it says:

Fire on Ice: The Exclusive Inside Story of Tonya Harding
https://books.google.com/books?isbn=0525575316
https://books.google.com/books?isbn=0812924576
By Abby Haight, ‎J. E. Vader

Both Erika and I felt like I was gypped,” Harding said. “The rest fell on their butts.” Harding was terribly upset when she called Gillooly after the short program. She had skated well—better than the other skaters —and the judges had marked her down. They wouldn't let her win, even when she deserved it. Even though she managed to climb three places to fourth after the long program—a huge leap in an international competition—Harding brought her anger with her back to Portland."

There apparently was a Tonya Harding Fan Club newsletter, "The Skater", circulating from December of 1993 that said pretty much the same thing and implied that "they fell" and "she didn't", but it is missing from the archive I found online.

By Erika, she means Erika Bakacs, who was Tonya's choreographer at the time. Erika was a former Romanian National Gymnastics Team Member that had trained with Marta and Bela Karolyi.

The part about Tonya leaping three places, from 7th to 4th, is verifiable.

 

[Japanfan]

I haven't heard the word 'gypped' used for a very long time.

But I guess it's not surprising that Tonya didn't know the origin of the word, or that it was really offensive.