How does Sotnikova's career and the dynamics of Russian skating play out if she wins bronze in Sochi?

[kwanatic]

I agree with all that but I am not sure Medvedeva would have risen to #1 as easily if there had been anyone in the way.

I feel as though even with Adelina in the field Evgenia would end up #1. She was just too consistent straight out of the gate. The scores she received in her first GP event were astronomical, PCS included. Adelina may have had a slight PCS edge for a short time but ultimately Evgenia's ability to execute her technical content would have made the difference as her PCS continued to rise.

She might be have continued being a sentimental favorite but there's no way she could have fended off Tuk's meteoric 2015 season and the rise of Med. Her skating was sloppy, she was inconsistent and her programs made you want to jump off a bridge.

If Adelina were skating with the consistency she found at the end of 2014 I feel like she could have held Liza T off for a short while due to her PCS which were deservedly higher. But with Liza T throwing that 3A, I think she'd have still won worlds that year.

Adelina's skating did get much better in terms of her sloppiness. Her control and refinement was miles better by the 2015-2016 season. The question is would she have gotten as good as she did without all of the show skating...

I actually enjoyed a lot her programs, especially the SPs. The FSs were all kinda meh but the only one I hated was the Burlesque FS...and I actually did like the beginning of that one. She skated to a nice version of "At Last" before all of the horrible choppy edits came in.

 

[savchenkoboss]

I think the biggest key of Sotnikova vs Medvedeva is could Sotnikova match Medvedeva level of consistency which she was far from when she originaly competed. It is clear, especialy with her improved artistry post 2014, she could match or surpass Medvedeva in sheer technical and artistic skill set. Could she come close to duplicating the same consistency and eliminating errors which Medvedeva hardly ever made though. That would be the main key. And is the main thing we all discussed in the Medvedeva winning Olympics in any other Games thread when comparing Sotnikova 2014 to Medvedeva 2018.

 

[Japanfan]

Sotnikova was the Russian fed. pet while she competed. She won Russian Nationals 5 times despite that she rarely had the best international results of the Russian girls. Tarasova was firmly in her corner and she is more powerful than even Eteri I believe, despite basically being retired as a full time coach/choreographer.

Despite all the hate she receives I was actually a big fan of Adelina's. I thought she was one of the most talented skaters in the field at the time. However, she was just getting started and needed more refinement and maturity (which she gained in later years). In Sochi she definitely had a case to win gold...but overall, I think the weaknesses in her skating were ignored by the judges and she was given a medal she shouldn't have received.

And she must have had a hint that a lot of people thought she didn't deserve the Gold - although I'm sure she would have defended herself. It's rare for a skater to say or imply that he or she wuz-gifted.

And I don't think she would have been well-received by international audiences subsequently to Sochi. I was never a Yunah fan but agreed with Kurt Browning's comment after her Sochi FP that "she had no equals".

IMO, Sotnikova's 2014 (season and especially Olympics) really came down to luck and peaking at an opportune time.

Opportune in terms of the wealth and fame that come with an OGM. But not so opportune in that it may have shortened her career as a skater and limited her opportunities to grow both technically and artistically. Just as B/S and S/P may have had their careers shortened by the SLC scandal. It could be that both pairs might have moved on regardless, but I sure would have loved to see both pairs compete a little longer.

 

[savchenkoboss]

Sale & Pelletier were gross, the most overrated and overscored pair ever. I was so happy they retired, rather than their needing 3 falls to ever lose an event as was the situation the judges and establishment had created for them and embellished further with the fake "scandal". Anyway they would have for sure retired after SLC regardless, David was 30 and had a long history of injuries. And he was also too excited to start his post skating life, cheating on Jamie and commiting adultery, commiting assault, getting more divorces, and the other things he has done since.

I do wonder if Berezhnaya & Sikhardlidze would have continued though, missed them a lot.

 

[blue_idealist]

Sale & Pelletier were gross, the most overrated and overscored pair ever. I was so happy they retired, rather than their needing 3 falls to ever lose an event as was the situation the judges and establishment had created for them and embellished further with the fake "scandal". Anyway they would have for sure retired after SLC regardless, David was 30 and had a long history of injuries. And he was also too excited to start his post skating life, cheating on Jamie and commiting adultery, commiting assault, getting more divorces, and the other things he has done since.

I do wonder if Berezhnaya & Sikhardlidze would have continued though, missed them a lot.

Who did David assault? I don't remember reading about this.

 

[savchenkoboss]

Who did David assault? I don't remember reading about this.

I read there was an assault judge on a guy in Montreal. I could be mistaken. The multiple divorces, adultery, cheating on his wives (Jamie including), violent outbursts, are all 100% confirmed though.

 

[Marco]

Adelina, like the Eteri girls, were only consistent when they were much younger. She was never that consistent once she turned senior.

Like Tara, I think the same injury-derailed career would have happened for her regardless of medal colour at the Olympics. It was years of bad technique and over-practice acting on the body that was growing. I am actually surprised that Evgenia can be so strong for so long.

 

[Japanfan]

And he was also too excited to start his post skating life, cheating on Jamie and commiting adultery, commiting assault, getting more divorces, and the other things he has done since.

SFAIK David has not remarried since his divorce from Jamie. And he divorced his previous wife to marry her.

Am I missing any divorces here?

 

[bardtoob]

Medvedeva moved across the ice like an ice dancer. Sotnikova never demonstrated that level of skill, despite having speed and a few other good qualities.

 

[SmallFairy]

Medvedeva moved across the ice like an ice dancer.

Last season made me a die-hard fan of Janny, but are you serious???

 

[Marco]

Medvedeva moved across the ice like an ice dancer. Sotnikova never demonstrated that level of skill, despite having speed and a few other good qualities.

More like a mime, literally.

 

[giselle23]

Adelina was never consistent. There are things I like about her skating. She has beautiful spirals and creative spins. Her jumps are huge. But without consistency, those things don't matter much. She happened to have the two skates of her life at Sochi. I am over debating if she should have won. Her name is in the record book, end of story.

 

[savchenkoboss]

Adelina was never consistent. There are things I like about her skating. She has beautiful spirals and creative spins. Her jumps are huge. But without consistency, those things don't matter much. She happened to have the two skates of her life at Sochi. I am over debating if she should have won. Her name is in the record book, end of story.

You are totally right on the consistency issue. And that is a huge issue against Medvedeva who IMO is arguably the most consistent skater EVER. I am not even exaggerating or making a hyperbolic statement either, for all the nitpickings you could have of Medvedeva's skating can anyone think of anyone- Kim, Asada, Kwan, Slutskaya, Witt, Yamaguchi, Ito, Hughes, Ando, Kerrigan, Sumners, Zayak, Kostner, etc...who was more consistent or even as consistent as Medvedeva? Like literally 90% or more of the times she competes she has a clean competition at a time the technical demands of the sport are at an all time high, and when she doesnt she might have 1 mistake. Contrasted to Sotnikova who has below average consistency for a top skater, and that is a major problem she would have had, unless she a)greatly improved her consistency, b)further improved so much in other eras that with her advantages over Medvedeva like greater jump height, much more speed and power over the ice (Medvedeva's biggest weakness is average skating skills and being slow), superior artistry if she improved her artistry the way she seems to have since 2014, and Tarasova > Eteri politically, the protocal advantage of being a champion who is older and got on top first, that she could get away with regular mistakes vs even a clean Medvedeva.

 

[bardtoob]

Last season made me a die-hard fan of Janny, but are you serious???

More like a mime, literally.

I didn't say a good ice dancer, but she used every step and turn available to avoid crossovers.

Yeah, the miming was annoyingly, but not as bad as the non-music audio (ie heartbeats) and non-lyric words that should be illegal. (They are supposed to skate to music, not dialogue!)

 

[savchenkoboss]

IMO Medvedeva is a very interpretitive skater and very musical and she moves a lot like an ice dancer. One thing that bothers me about her skating though is she is slow, or atleast not as fast as such a dominant skater should be. IMO she is slower than people like Kwan and Yamaguchi where, and they were hardly known for their speed in comparision to their biggest rivals (eg- Slutskaya, Lipinski, Ito, Harding).

 

[kwanatic]

You are totally right on the consistency issue. And that is a huge issue against Medvedeva who IMO is arguably the most consistent skater EVER. I am not even exaggerating or making a hyperbolic statement either, for all the nitpickings you could have of Medvedeva's skating can anyone think of anyone- Kim, Asada, Kwan, Slutskaya, Witt, Yamaguchi, Ito, Hughes, Ando, Kerrigan, Sumners, Zayak, Kostner, etc...who was more consistent or even as consistent as Medvedeva? Like literally 90% or more of the times she competes she has a clean competition at a time the technical demands of the sport are at an all time high, and when she doesnt she might have 1 mistake.

No argument here. Since I've been watching skating, I've never seen a more consistent and dominant competitor than Evgenia. You can probably count on one hand how many times she fell over the course of the last 3 years. Any mistakes she made were minor in the grand scheme of things and didn't matter much b/c of the volume of technical content she put out. Up until last season no one could touch her. She thoroughly dominated this past quad of skating for the women... Certain skaters have a season where they may win everything they enter--Michelle Kwan's 1995-1996 season comes to mind...but to remain undefeated for nearly 3 seasons is insane. Prior to losing to Alina at Euros this year, the last time Evgenia lost a competition was in 2015. Only two people have ever beaten her on the senior level: Elena and Alina.

That is pretty insane...

 

[savchenkoboss]

No argument here. Since I've been watching skating, I've never seen a more consistent and dominant competitor than Evgenia. You can probably count on one hand how many times she fell over the course of the last 3 years. Any mistakes she made were minor in the grand scheme of things and didn't matter much b/c of the volume of technical content she put out. Up until last season no one could touch her. She thoroughly dominated this past quad of skating for the women... Certain skaters have a season where they may win everything they enter--Michelle Kwan's 1995-1996 season comes to mind...but to remain undefeated for nearly 3 seasons is insane. Prior to losing to Alina at Euros this year, the last time Evgenia lost a competition was in 2015. Only two people have ever beaten her on the senior level: Elena and Alina.

That is pretty insane...

Agreed, and the biggest thing more than the not losing is just almost never making mistakes. To beat her you have to flat out beat her with your own skating, like Zagitova did at Europeans and the Olympics, and like Gold and Anna P. did in the short program of the 2016 worlds, she never gives you assistance on her own end. Maybe something minor once in awhile, but never a fall or two or numerous stumbles type thing. That is why a skater like Miyahara who is a skater who would need mistakes by Medvedeva to beat her, can never beat her, despite that Miyahara is also one of the most consistent skaters. Sotnikova is different in that I firmly believe she would have the weapons in her skating to beat Medvedeva, especialy with her improved artistry after 2014, but she would have to fire them all in a given competition to get those wins, that is the only times they would happen.

Of course she seems lucky in that she seems blessed to keep a relative stick figure forever, she never had to go through the period of growing significant hips and breasts like Kwan in 96-97 or almost all skaters at some point. However you could argue Sasha Cohen had the exact same benefit and well.....

 

[DannyCurry]

Sotniko-who ?

 

[Japanfan]

Contrasted to Sotnikova who has below average consistency for a top skater, and that is a major problem she would have had, unless she a)greatly improved her consistency, b)further improved so much in other eras that with her advantages over Medvedeva like greater jump height, much more speed and power over the ice (Medvedeva's biggest weakness is average skating skills and being slow), superior artistry if she improved her artistry the way she seems to have since 2014, and Tarasova > Eteri politically, the protocal advantage of being a champion who is older and got on top first, that she could get away with regular mistakes vs even a clean Medvedeva.

If Sotnikova had come up through the ranks competing with Med and Zags in the era of the 'Russian wonder girls', she might have been pushed to be a better skater. Rivalries can do that sometimes.

 

[briancoogaert]

It would have been so much better for her and for Figure Skating ! She could have continued to develop her skating.
About dynamic of russian skating, I'm not sure it would have changed anything : the young skaters were already ready for 2015 and 2016

 

[moebius]

Sotnikova is not consistent enough to compete with Med and Zags. It doesn't matter if she is the better skater.

 

[lala]

Sotnikova is not consistent enough to compete with Med and Zags. It doesn't matter if she is the better skater.

I agree with you