Hanyu vs Chen PCS

meer

Well-Known Member
Messages
64
I'm glad you love what Raf has to say. I guess you agree with him saying Nathan has better elements than Hanyu too huh. He is honest and doesn't sugarcoat things.:gallopin1
 

Meoima

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5,310
I'm glad you love what Raf has to say. I guess you agree with him saying Nathan has better elements than Hanyu too huh. He is honest and doesn't sugarcoat things.:gallopin1
Nah, I agree with that. Hanyu is still injured and he missed 2 elements. One pop sal and one near fall 4S. there is nothing wrong to say that overall Nate had better elements at Saitama. He was cleaner and all.
I just laugh at Raf being so honest about Nate's programs while many people are like OMG this is art. Such a contradiction.
 

dinakt

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6,920
Surely I also read the interview. My point is along this line:

People: OMG this is art! This is cool!
Raf: No, it is just this...

It is a hilarious take to me. It is cold and calculated and I enjoy his take. I am not a person of "artistry" and "beautiful magical dance moves" etc.

Art is in a very large degree cold and calculated (cerebral, repetitive, and meticulous) in the process of its creation.
It becomes "beautiful magical dance" only when you add extra energy outflow from within and perception of that energy by the audience.
So there is nothing contradictory in Rafael's take and the fan's take.
 

Meoima

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5,310
Art is in a very large degree cold and calculated (cerebral, repetitive, and meticulous) in the process of its creation.
It becomes "beautiful magical dance" only when you add extra energy outflow from within and perception of that energy by the audience.
So there is nothing contradictory in Rafael's take and the fan's take.
Nah, you totally missed my point.
My point is that all those verbose words about any performance are futile. I do not even use flowery words for my favorite skaters. In a way, I find those words with wings are funny and amusing. If it is good it is good, if judges like it then they like it. Not a person of poetic description, that's all.
So when people be like: OMG this is art.
I am like: Kay...
 

Meoima

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5,310
Surely, you have no point. Again, Raf didn’t say what you desperately want him to say. You don’t like Nathan’s skating, we get it.
Again, just a description of how skating programs under Raf should look like.
 

dinakt

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6,920
Nah, you totally missed my point.
My point is that all those verbose words about any performance are futile. I do not even use flowery words for my favorite skaters. In a way, I find those words with wings are funny and amusing. If it is good it is good, if judges like it then they like it. Not a person of poetic description, that's all.
So when people be like: OMG this is art.
I am like: Kay...
Fine- I get it.
Shouldn't you just care about tech then:)))?
Also, I have to side with @IceAlisa that you are misquoting Rafael. Perhaps it was not the most clear translation (I did not check the translation).
Raf's point was that Nathan tries to combine ultra difficult content with PCS complexity (which he drily calls "winking at the judges"); and that it was easier for Nathan to do in the Short rather than the Long because there were fewer technical risks. Besides, Rafael referred to people who questioned their layout for the Long as people "who do not know the intricacies of our business".
"Prepare for jump, then jump" is not what he said about Nathan, it is what he said OTHER people, who "don't understand the intricacies of our business", had said (in the past)
 
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MAXSwagg

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1,859
Surely, you have no point. Again, Raf didn’t say what you desperately want him to say. You don’t like Nathan’s skating, we get it.

There’s no need to be so condescending, IceAlisa. :( You probably don’t mean to be (I think) but that is how it is coming across. Meomia has done nothing to warrant it.
 

IceAlisa

discriminating and persnickety ballet aficionado
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37,284
There’s no need to be so condescending, IceAlisa. :( You probably don’t mean to be but that is how it is coming across.
I can allow myself a bit of snark, thank you. I know about this poster and its exploits on the Hanyu fan board btw.
 

MAXSwagg

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1,859
I can allow myself a bit of snark, thank you. I know about this poster and its exploits on the Hanyu fan board btw.

Huh? You’re confused! I, too, know this poster and that is not true. There’s no “exploits!”
 

MAXSwagg

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1,859
It’s a conversation for the PM

I don’t want to be bothered with PMs, and I don’t care, to be honest. I know Meomia better than you and I know it’s just confusion. Not deliberate, of course, so there’s no hard feelings. Everyone has mistakenly read and/or interpreted things on this and other forums.
 

aftershocks

Banned Member
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17,317
:lol: I dislike both of these and I like both skaters. EX are usually not my thing

Yeah, I don't like either of these music choices for these guys. :huh: Nathan had much better music exhibition choices the past two seasons, but not this season. Maybe he was too busy with school work to give it much thought. So maybe he just picked something randomly and is using the same choreo from past exhibition performances. :lol:

Hanyu's pretty, tinkling piano music possibly fits his over-ruffly, pale pink, ballerina-like top (which doesn't go with the black pants btw), but it's not one of his better music choices. Oh well. Probably it's mainly the audience in the rink who has the chance or inclination to see exhibitions these days.

OTOH, I really like this music and exhibition performance by Vincent, choreographed by Josh Farris ♥️
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jwx6euqsJXQ&feature=youtu.be
 
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IceAlisa

discriminating and persnickety ballet aficionado
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I don’t want to be bothered with PMs, and I don’t care, to be honest. I know Meomia better than you and I know it’s just confusion. Not deliberate, of course, so there’s no hard feelings. Everyone has mistakenly read and/or interpreted things on this and other forums.
You are making an assumption that is incorrect but fine, lets drop this
 

VGThuy

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41,020
oh, I just read your post...you know the story why is Vincent so hated

I never said I didn't quite know why, I just wondered why "bincent" is used. Seems a bit cowardly to me, but I'm not surprised. Some of my interactions with the young fans on Twitter left a lot to be desired. They don't like counter-arguments or to be challenged. They come at you for having an opposing opinion, and when you keep responding to their posts after they misconstrue what you say and you clarify it for them, they act like the victim, tell you to stop commenting (on your own twitter thread!), and then Tweet about you without tagging once frustrated and out of substantive rebuttals.
 

aliceanne

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3,841
Hanyu looked injured to me. His landing knee looked too soft. His butt almost touched the ice on some of his jump landings.

I never can get past Hanyu's floppy look, but a lot of other people like his skating so I accept that I am an outlier. However, I think Hanyu is going to have a hard time keeping up with Nathan going forward simply because Hanyu's body has so much more wear and tear on it. Nathan has his faults, but his performance quality continues to improve, and tech is still king.
 

nathanfan

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40
Yuzu fans need to stop taking Raf’s interview so seriously, and quoting him out of context. He’s always given these types of interviews - it’s just that more people know about it now.
 

nathanfan

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Nathan’s style is just far more modern and interesting to me. And I love his new ex program that he skated at the gala. I think he is very creative and musical on his own, and he is very versatile and can perform a wide range of choreography well. Kurt Browning said on the recent Worlds broadcast that very few skaters can fully execute what Shae-Lynn gives them - but Nathan is one of them.
 

nathanfan

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Hanyu looked injured to me. His landing knee looked too soft. His butt almost touched the ice on some of his jump landings.

I never can get past Hanyu's floppy look, but a lot of other people like his skating so I accept that I am an outlier. However, I think Hanyu is going to have a hard time keeping up with Nathan going forward simply because Hanyu's body has so much more wear and tear on it. Nathan has his faults, but his performance quality continues to improve, and tech is still king.

I don't think Hanyu will be able to accomplish his goal of getting all the quads - considering his ankle issues and past injuries. He's also 24 - and Nathan learned all his quads between ages 15-17. Maybe age 18 for the loop, I'm not sure.

Nathan's performance quality has improved a lot.
 

DonnaVita

New Member
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2
Вы говорите по русски? Нет, тогда идите...
А вы точно говорите? Раф раскритиковал программы Нейтана и прямым текстом сказал, что они пусты, как этого можно не заметить. Хотя я думаю, что он скорее про пп.

"Не соглашусь. Мне хотелось бы видеть в его интерпретации совсем другие программы. По исполнению элементов, по построению. Сейчас-то в чем кайф? Пошел, прыгнул, выехал. Еще раз прыгнул, снова выехал. Ну да, прыгнул классно. Но надоест же на такое катание смотреть."
 
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RoyThree

Active Member
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84
I read Raf's interview and really like his straight-forwardness. He seems to not be one to coddle (unlike many in the US in EVERY sport). I interpret his answers to be like "yeah, that was good, but now let's see what we can do to make it better". I love this way of thinking.
 

aftershocks

Banned Member
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17,317
Kurt Browning said on the recent Worlds broadcast that very few skaters can fully execute what Shae-Lynn gives them. Nathan is one of them.

Wow :eek: :COP:

I agree that Shae-Lynn Bourne, and even Lori Nichol are helping Nathan to grow more as an artist. Actually, Shae-Lynn was quoted in an online NBC article explaining how she has worked on helping Nathan to bring out his personality on the ice, particularly in his Caravan sp.

And btw, in the fp presser for the men, Nathan absolutely hit out of the ballpark a question he was asked about having to skate after Pooh-bears have rained down on the ice. With a smile and a laugh, Nathan graciously said he enjoyed seeing the fans showing their enthusiasm, and how much fun is the sight of all the Pooh-bears on the ice. He also noted that this was not the first time he's skated after Hanyu, so it was not a new experience for him. He indicated that despite enjoying the Pooh-bear display, he also knew he would have to focus on preparing himself for his own performance. Seeimingly, Nathan was laid-back and chill under pressure.

I especially loved hearing Nathan say that he's pleased with how school and skating has worked out so well for him, because he was not sure initially how it would work out. It appears as if he's aced the process! But he admits having to make adjustments over the course of the season. He seems happy and fulfilled. Moreover, Nathan spoke about loving the chance to explore at Yale who he is off the ice, as well as trying to discover his future possibilities to contribute something meaningful to the world once his skating career has ended. :encore: He even said he hoped that latter comment didn't sound pretentious! Nathan continues to amaze, to charm, and to effortlessly serve as an outstanding young role model.
 

IceAlisa

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А вы точно говорите? Раф раскритиковал программы Нейтана и прямым текстом сказал, что они пусты, как этого можно не заметить. Хотя я думаю, что он скорее про пп.

"Не соглашусь. Мне хотелось бы видеть в его интерпретации совсем другие программы. По исполнению элементов, по построению. Сейчас-то в чем кайф? Пошел, прыгнул, выехал. Еще раз прыгнул, снова выехал. Ну да, прыгнул классно. Но надоест же на такое катание смотреть."
Ну и что? Неизвестно что именно он здесь имел в виду.

Кстати, выезжает Нейтан часто на кораблик, как этого можно не заметить?
 
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nathanfan

Member
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40
I read Raf's interview and really like his straight-forwardness. He seems to not be one to coddle (unlike many in the US in EVERY sport). I interpret his answers to be like "yeah, that was good, but now let's see what we can do to make it better". I love this way of thinking.

Yeah - I don’t think anyone would accuse Raf of coddling his students!
 

dinakt

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6,920
My sense is that Raf feels that he needs to both acknowledge Nathan's accomplishments and to maintain the narrative that without him (Raf) any future progress is impossible. So he slightly contradicts himself (in the same interview?), depending on what point he is making. And he undoubtedly has valid points in everything he says.:D
 

IceAlisa

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It’s definitely the tough love mentality many of us experienced as students of Russian instructors, no matter the discipline.

If you saw Raf’s face when Nathan finished his FS, you certainly wouldn’t think he was bored :lol:
 

aftershocks

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17,317
If you saw Raf’s face when Nathan finished his FS, you certainly wouldn’t think he was bored :lol:

There was also a quote somewhere from Raf I remember hearing, perhaps on a replay broadcast by NBC commentators, that Raf had said Nathan's fp was the most pleased he's ever been with a student's competition performance. He was certainly smiling from ear-to-ear at the end of Nathan's fp, which is rare for Raf. :D
 

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