Gymnastic news #22 - Tokyo or bust

Domshabfan

Lady Hale's Brooch
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9,500
Did you not like Popa? She had my favourite routine. I thought it a shame with routines like Moors, Saraiva and Popa in the final - the podium went to the gymnasts it did. Sunisa Lee has beautiful gymnastics and artistic potential, she just needs slightly more elaborate choreography. The code for next quad really does appear to try and micromanage the gymnasts into the direction of artistry on floor, we'll see if it's successful.

I think that if the code was different, Simone would likely still win - she'd just have to strategise differently. I'm not excited about seeing routines with 2 OOBs win with such a high margin, but I guess the same debates exist in skating.
Sunlisa Lee is a work in progress, the music is perfect for her. I think her problem with choreography is the time. There so many spins, tumbles and leaps. Moors could do it by doing a low D score routine, Sunlisa wanted her D score as well. Popa and Sunlisa was a well-done routine, rest was a failure for me.

I certainly feel when 2 OOBs (i think they only took 1 OOB here) happen E score should go down, we see it other gymnasts, but Simone's gymnastics seem to get a pass. I wish they would penalise as well, the routine is not controlled when you see someone go OOB like that).

Micromanaging by FIG didn't work very well last time around with the not standing on the corner with 2 legs, so they stood on one leg. If FIG says no standing for more 5 secs in corner, they will lay down on the corner.

I am very happy with MAG apparatus finals, so many countries (PHI, ISR, IRL, TPE, TUR, ITA, FRA, BRA, CRO) winning medals. WAG only had BEL and ITA winning medals.
 

millyskate

Well-Known Member
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13,734
Sunlisa Lee is a work in progress, the music is perfect for her. I think her problem with choreography is the time. There so many spins, tumbles and leaps. Moors could do it by doing a low D score routine, Sunlisa wanted her D score as well. Popa and Sunlisa was a well-done routine, rest was a failure for me.

I certainly feel when 2 OOBs (i think they only took 1 OOB here) happen E score should go down, we see it other gymnasts, but Simone's gymnastics seem to get a pass. I wish they would penalise as well, the routine is not controlled when you see someone go OOB like that).

Micromanaging by FIG didn't work very well last time around with the not standing on the corner with 2 legs, so they stood on one leg. If FIG says no standing for more 5 secs in corner, they will lay down on the corner.

I am very happy with MAG apparatus finals, so many countries (PHI, ISR, IRL, TPE, TUR, ITA, FRA, BRA, CRO) winning medals. WAG only had BEL and ITA winning medals.
I think GB managed to win medals in both in both WAG and MAG ;) But yes, you're probably right regarding the D score for Sunisa.
 

love_skate2011

Well-Known Member
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2,713
I am very happy with MAG apparatus finals, so many countries (PHI, ISR, IRL, TPE, TUR, ITA, FRA, BRA, CRO) winning medals. WAG only had BEL and ITA winning medals.
Gymnastics is like Wrestling it is open for anyone so many countries do have chances to mdeal, Its still strange that WAG has not catch up maybe its the training methods.

Its not elitist sport like Figure Skating or Rhyhtmic Gymnastics where you need proper environment and high costs just get trianing, a typical RG leotard costs 2,000 euros and that doesnt include coaching staff and choreographer. Most countries don't have their own choroegraphers or pays leotards to make up the bills like Russia.
 

Rob

Beach Bum
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14,814
Did Simone really do a mic drop? Not sure how I feel about that.
My test for FX is watch it without the music. If it looks like a bunch of WTF choppy prancing in between tumbling runs, it’s crap. If it has cohesion, fluidity and makes sense as more than a series of runs, I’ll probably like it with the music.
 

ilovepaydays

Well-Known Member
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10,587
I’m not sure how popular this opinion will be on here, but I’ll post it anyway: I hate that the bronze medals look pink.

I think one of the main reasons why the men had more countries winning medals is that with six apparatuses, its much harder to be a good all around gymnast AND be a superb event specialist. So, if you are especially from a country where there isn’t strong enough coaching and support to be a good AAer, you specialize in a couple of events - and just work to get INSANELY good.
 

nickp

Active Member
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54
Simone biles have won 25 world championship medals that is incredible !!! She even said this might be her last world
 

Erin

Well-Known Member
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9,748
Angsty Canadian is so wrong!
But she does it so well!

Gymnastics actually has a history of angsty Canadians. The perky ones must self-select into figure skating.

By the way, does anyone know why a Jade didn’t compete?
Two per country rule. She lost out on a tiebreak in the qualifiers to Suni Lee after going out of bounds twice although I don’t think it should have been as close as it was.
 

millyskate

Well-Known Member
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Gymnastics is like Wrestling it is open for anyone so many countries do have chances to mdeal, Its still strange that WAG has not catch up maybe its the training methods.

Its not elitist sport like Figure Skating or Rhyhtmic Gymnastics where you need proper environment and high costs just get trianing, a typical RG leotard costs 2,000 euros and that doesnt include coaching staff and choreographer. Most countries don't have their own choroegraphers or pays leotards to make up the bills like Russia.
Actually gymnastics has become incredibly financially elitist, and I think one of the reasons MAG has more medal diversity is because the men who are from smaller countries have the time to grow and train in countries where there are super-equipped gyms once they show promise. Someone posted a video of Carlos Yulo training at 12, and safe to say he was the level of US / GB / Russian 8 year-olds. But he's had the chance to train in Japan in recent years, which has really helped.
ETA: But also maybe because some of the MAG apparatus, like pommel or rings, or to a certain extent PBars aren't subject to safety concerns or so dependent on the availability of pits.

It's made me wonder: people criticize Tin Srbic for only having Tkatchev releases in his routine, but would he have Kollmans and Cassinas if he had a pit in his gym? https://www.instagram.com/p/B2612DwB4PB/ It could well be that the training facilities, or lack thereof, have dictated the shape of his routine.

In general it has become almost impossible for gymnasts to compete without sprung floors, vaults into pits, apparatus over pits, without mentioning tumble tracks and the latest version of whatever pommel horse is currently the FIG norm. It's one of the reasons there's so much depth in the US on the women's side: they can practice big skills safely from a young age, not just in the national training centre but in gyms across the country. People always pounce on gymnasts from less wealthy countries when they post videos of training big tumbles on the floor at a young age. It really upsets me - because if they weren't, they'd never get a chance of competing at all. It's a problem of economic inequality, but we can't restrict others from trying by policing the risks they take.

It's interesting to listen to Vernaiev's interviews, he did one this week where he basically said that they can't practice dismounts in their national training centre because they either have no pit over the apparatus, or just a pit and no apparatus over hard floor. So when it comes to the competition, it's just about mental readiness.
 
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FiveRinger

Well-Known Member
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6,364
Did Simone really do a mic drop? Not sure how I feel about that.
My test for FX is watch it without the music. If it looks like a bunch of WTF choppy prancing in between tumbling runs, it’s crap. If it has cohesion, fluidity and makes sense as more than a series of runs, I’ll probably like it with the music.
She didn’t do the mic drop today, and I was so looking for it...lol.
 

Jayar

Well-Known Member
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9,311
There is so much to celebrate about Simone Biles that I don't even know where to start. I think that, despite the four per team next season, I am so excited to see the American women compete out from underneath the iron fist of Marta AND with a voice against the abuses that they have had throughout their careers. Maybe this is the beginning of a new era in gymnastics where the women stop having to fit into molds and let their gymnastics speak for themselves? But as a big event only viewer, let me just just say out loud that I FLOVE Melanie de los Santos... such elegance, Nina Derwael is a beast on bars and so darn good, and I cannot even talk about how beautiful Angelina Melnikova's gymnastics are. So much to be excited about!
 

floskate

Vacant
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9,638
What a worlds this has been. Top drawer and so well attended. It will go down as one of my favourite world's I think.

Simone - how she has been able to come here and deliver the way she has with all that has been happening over the last month is just astonishing. Without doubt her very best world championships and despite not medalling on bars she still went out and nailed the hell out of her routine. Her EF Amanar had Maroney 2012 vibes and her beam looks the best it ever has. Still pissed at FIG over the dismount rating because there is now no incentive for her to ever do it again. :wuzrobbed. But Simone, please please get an Olympic floor routine that is worthy of your greatness. The Big Spender mash up was a horror show :(

Joe Fraser :eek: :cheer: Arthur from Brazil :eek: :cheer: (My gaydar was off the charts this afternoon ;) )

Overall fabulous World's. Gymnastics needed that after the shitshows that were Montreal and Doha.
 

millyskate

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Yes, the organisation was fabulous and there were so many emotional moments. Chuso qualifying for Tokyo, Danusia qualifying for Tokyo, Dragulescu qualifying for Tokyo, nearly all the fan favourites making it to the Olympics for that matter... the Downie sisters medalling, Simone and her records, the pommel battle, Nory winning, both Spanish teams making Tokyo, Joe Fraser.... I even liked the glowing medals and thought the ramp the gymnasts walked down after introductions really added to the sense of grandeur.
 

Aceon6

Isolating from mean people
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20,510
American men, not a single medal.
Frankly, I didn’t expect much other than the O qualifying. I have to keep reminding myself that MAG in the US is more than a generation removed from its heyday. NCAA is a shell of its 80s self and most high schools around me don’t even have equipment, let alone teams.

ETA, we’ve discussed this in the other threads. Boys who can flip and spin are choosing X sports, not gymnastics.
 

Rob

Beach Bum
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14,814
Frankly, I didn’t expect much other than the O qualifying.
It is just frustrating that Sam has the difficulty and form for medals at least on PB and HB, but he just can't go 6 for 6 every time, he has to mess up at least one apparatus in at least one phase (or two). I don't think he has the AA difficulty to keep up with the other guys. Its good that he has his best round in team so at least they qualified.

Other than wishing Sam would hit in at least one event, I like the rest of the diversity.
 

4rkidz

plotting, planning and travelling
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12,240
I really enjoyed this worlds and my first to watch totally online (fig channel) and not live. The commentators were excellent and nice not to have commercials. Loved Canadian Moors floor program, nice to see artistry returning to gymnastics. Biles is a phenom and amazing to watch. I love that it’s adults as well competing and not little girls. Sunisa Lee is the future for the US team a great combination of artistry and athleticism.
 

Winnipeg

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3,889
Great Worlds

I cannot understand why the need to reduce the team to only 4?? It just does not make sense to me. I was upset when it went from 6 to 5!!
 

dramagrrl

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1,848
ETA, we’ve discussed this in the other threads. Boys who can flip and spin are choosing X sports, not gymnastics.
This seems to be true. I currently have two teenaged male students who were on track to elite junior level gymnastics in Canada and one of them recently switched to wakeboarding and the other to some crazy sport where you do flips etc. on a bike.
 

excessmotion

New Member
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12
I feel like Melinikova has been robbed many times. robbed of AA bronze or silver last year. Robbed of floor bronze and floor silver last 2 years. Robbed of a bars medal this year. Anyone else feel this way. Why are her E scores so much lower than everyone else even when she hits.
 

Domshabfan

Lady Hale's Brooch
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9,500
attempting to wrest the Gold from USA
Not Again, how does that even work? With the current system importance of all-rounder goes up even more. Now an all-rounder like Simone is even more valuable than ever before since they need 3 solid scores from 4 athletes rather than 4. Stop smoking whatever you doing for once. As we have explained it is to do with Men's event and need to accommodate more event specialists.
 

Rob

Beach Bum
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14,814
I feel like Melinikova has been robbed many times. robbed of AA bronze or silver last year. Robbed of floor bronze and floor silver last 2 years. Robbed of a bars medal this year. Anyone else feel this way. Why are her E scores so much lower than everyone else even when she hits.
Mainly, I read that she gets a .1 deduction from the artistry score because she ends with tumbling and does not do some choreography to end the routine. Apart from that, I see very wobbly turns (ok wolf turns are ugly but compare the centering of Suni Lee to the wobbly turns of Angelina) in almost all of her floor routines, that may make up the whole difference? overall,her gymnastics are very pretty, but I see lots of little form breaks, loose knees in tumbling, foot/leg separation, sometime Chest a little down in landings. Not major but it adds up and doesn’t get her any benefit of the doubt in reputation points. Also, she has nice toe point but it’s not the usual Russian high arched high on toes precision, so it doesnt set her apart from Lee and not as good as Hurd. Vs Murakami for bronze last year the E score difference was so tiny, it might have just been the choreography. I was happy to see her get some medals this year, hopefully it is inspiring for her.
 

Aceon6

Isolating from mean people
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20,510
Agree with @Rob on this. Melnikova had tons of tiny deductions. For example, leg separation on UB. Each is .1, so she’d be better off keeping them together and have a big miss on a handstand.
 

millyskate

Well-Known Member
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13,734
Not Again, how does that even work? With the current system importance of all-rounder goes up even more. Now an all-rounder like Simone is even more valuable than ever before since they need 3 solid scores from 4 athletes rather than 4. Stop smoking whatever you doing for once. As we have explained it is to do with Men's event and need to accommodate more event specialists.
Exactly. And whether people like it or not, it has been working and working very well. Gymnasts from small programs, like Carlos Yulo or Rhys McClenaghan, would have been very unlikely to win world medals under the 6 gymnast per team system.

It's also about the Olympics and bringing gymnastics in line with other sports. No other sport where team performance is made from the sum of individual performances has 6 athletes per team, 4 is the standard number for fencing, horse riding, triathlon... in modern pentathlon it's three. I love the variety that we've seen over the past 15 years, it's pretty much the only thing I've liked with the changes made to the scoring system. I don't miss the days where podiums were made up with gymnasts exclusively from the same 4 countries.

In Stuttgart men from 15 different countries won medals! How awesome is that. On the women's side it's not the same, but that's largely due to the presence of Simone Biles. The non-Simone medals were split between gymnasts from 5 countries and there was good representation in finals.
 

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