Gracie Gold's memoir published February 2024

[Aceon6]

How did Gracie's rivalry with Ashley Wagner affect her? In addition, many in the FS fan base were actively rooting against her in favor of Ashley. That has to be a challenge for anyone, to know that fans are rooting harder for someone else.

Based on the skaters I know, they get used to it. It’s worse at the lower levels where rink cliques rule.

 

[kosjenka]

I remember around the time he was working with Gracie, TSL were spreading rumors about him. Something about an old court case for abuse that happened in France. Not sure what legal action it was and TSL likely exaggerated the truth for the salacious nature, but it made a huge splash and they kept harping on it. Interestingly, despite TSL talking a lot about it and fans looking for it, no one found proof of the court case and there was no one in the US coming out to accuse him of being abusive while coaching in the US. (Personally I think there's some truth, if only because TSL doesn't spread that sort of rumor lightly, but it was likely stretched given both TSL and lack of anything similar being reported)

I remember this.
I was reading about the allegations on another board about him and I assume this is also where TSLs source is from.

Regarding his experience coaching Gracie and posting her training videos on social media, The narrative of TSL was that he was using her to contribute to his coaching business. From reading Gracies book, you see that is not what she thinks was his agenda and she didnt feel this way about it.

 

[peibeck]

How did Gracie's rivalry with Ashley Wagner affect her? In addition, many in the FS fan base were actively rooting against her in favor of Ashley. That has to be a challenge for anyone, to know that fans are rooting harder for someone else.

Gracie doesn't really discuss competitors in her book. She mentions them, of course, but not in terms like "rivalry." The most she mentions (in a personal way) about Ashley is to say they weren't really friends and have very different personalities off ice.

 

[Wyliefan]

How did Gracie's rivalry with Ashley Wagner affect her? In addition, many in the FS fan base were actively rooting against her in favor of Ashley. That has to be a challenge for anyone, to know that fans are rooting harder for someone else.

Um, that's called sports. Wherever there's competition, there will be rivals, with fans rooting for each competitor.

 

[Winnipeg]

Am reading the book..........who was the coach she refers to as "Cruella" in her book?

 

[ptvvibezz]

Am reading the book..........who was the coach she refers to as "Cruella" in her book?

Gold started skating at age 8 after attending a friend's birthday party at her local rink in Springfield, Missouri. She subsequently began training with Amy Vorhaben and Max Liu before changing coaches to work with Alexia Griffin. Later she joined Susan Liss and then switched to Toni Hickey in Springfield, Illinois.

It was her first coach in Springfield so…

 

[just tuned in]

Um, that's called sports. Wherever there's competition, there will be rivals, with fans rooting for each competitor.

Yes, of course there are rivalries and fan bases. But this is not a team event, it is personal. If a person has emotional fragility, I have to imagine that this would be an exacerbating factor, But maybe not?

 

[Winnipeg]

In most sports, an athlete has to have: the right training and equipment; the right physical attributes; the determination to work hard and commitment; and the mental ability to perform under stress and the overall stress of being at a high level of athletic performance.

If a person is suffering from the mental or physical stress, maybe they should consider going recreational and just have fun and exercise?

Rivals? Don't all sport competitors have rivals? It is, after all, a competition.

 

[pixie cut]

In most sports, an athlete has to have: the right training and equipment; the right physical attributes; the determination to work hard and commitment; and the mental ability to perform under stress and the overall stress of being at a high level of athletic performance.

If a person is suffering from the mental or physical stress, maybe they should consider going recreational and just have fun and exercise?

Rivals? Don't all sport competitors have rivals? It is, after all, a competition.

Rivals is one thing. The often manufactured rivalries of skating are another.

 

[overedge]

Rivals is one thing. The often manufactured rivalries of skating are another.

So many people were shocked when Michelle Kwan said at a press conference "I like you, Tara." The Kween also said in an interview that she really didn't know Tara well enough to be resentful of her (or words to that effect).

 

[skatingguy]

Rivals is one thing. The often manufactured rivalries of skating are another.

What rivalries were manufactured? Sometimes a rivalry is overstated, mostly because one athlete or the other has a consistent results advantage, but that doesn't mean the lower ranked athlete isn't trying to displace the higher ranked athlete.

So many people were shocked when Michelle Kwan said at a press conference "I like you, Tara." The Kween also said in an interview that she really didn't know Tara well enough to be resentful of her (or words to that effect).

Just because they didn't hate one another didn't mean that they weren't rivals.

 

[Sparks]

My problem at the time was Gracie was overhyped too early. I was not a fan of Ashley, however I thought Gracie was a better all around skater. I didn't root for either one. I rooted for Mirai

 

[Impromptu]

Rivals is one thing. The often manufactured rivalries of skating are another.

Gracie's book pretty much confirms that the rivalry was manufactured:

The media made us out to be rivals along the lines of Tonya and Nancy, but it was a forced narrative that reporters ran with for page clicks and content. The only thing that was said about us that was truthful was that we didn't much care for each other. We were different people with different temperaments vying for the same crown. That's it. End of story.

Ashley said I pushed her to get better and I'd agreed she did the same for me. She was a tough competitor. I hated when she won, but there was no shame in losing to her.

 

[skatingguy]

Gracie's book pretty much confirms that the rivalry was manufactured:

They traded US national titles between 2012 & 2016, and the portion of the book that you quoted describes exactly how they were rivals - they pushed each to be better skaters.

 

[pixie cut]

Gracie's book pretty much confirms that the rivalry was manufactured:

Rivals is a legitimate concept.
Skating rivalries have often been overhyped and fires stoked by TV and other media.
Ashley v Gracie
Michelle v Tara
Brian v Brian

 

[overedge]

Just because they didn't hate one another didn't mean that they weren't rivals.

Competitive rivals, sure. And Tara's mom threw shade at the Kwans more than once. But a few too many people blew that up into them disliking each other.

 

[Sparks]

Competitive rivals, sure. And Tara's mom threw shade at the Kwans more than once. But a few too many people blew that up into them disliking each other.

I felt it was more of a one-sided off ice rivalry.

 

[Jammers]

They traded US national titles between 2012 & 2016, and the portion of the book that you quoted describes exactly how they were rivals - they pushed each to be better skaters.

I agree without a doubt from 2012-2016 Gracie and Ashley were the top 2 US ladies who carried the US ladies internationally and therefore they were rivals who were always the favorites to win the title for a number of years and were responsible for getting the 3rd spot back in 2013 and keeping it for the next 3 years. If only we had 2 strong skaters like that now who always finished in the top 6 most every year at Worlds.

 

[Sylvia]

I was curious what the last names of Susie and Jen were, the dietician and doctor who worked for US Figure Skating who helped her get treatment and whether they're still with USFS. (I assume Brandon, the strength and conditioning coach with USOPC is Brandon Siakel, who also worked with Nathan Chen?) I'm glad they were there and cared about her well-being beyond just her skating. I can understand why the last names and identities of certain people were left out, but in this case, they should be recognized for doing their jobs well and looking out for the person behind the athlete.

You are correct about Brandon Siakel:

In Chapter 14 ("Nuclear Meltdown"), Gracie credits 3 people at 2017 Champs Camp for understanding what she was going through and starting the process of actually doing something to help her - sports dietician/high performance director Susie [Parker-Simmons] and a doctor affiliated with USFS (Jen) encouraged her to talk about her ongoing trauma in the OTC kitchen; Jen reached out to strength & conditioning coach Brandon [Siakel] who researched treatment & recovery centers for her.

I believe (not confirmed) that Dr. Jen's last name is Burke.

I just came across this recap by @Cayuse (thanks!) -- and first post on FSU (Jan. 30) -- about Gracie's book in the U.S. Women's news thread and thought I would bring it over here:

Finished reading Gracie’s book Outofshapeworthlesslooser on the plane ride from Nationals. I was lucky enough to win a copy in a drawing when she gave a talk at the Columbus Metropolitan Library (a gorgeous facility!) The book will be released February 6 and would be worth a discussion thread in FSU. The book should be required reading for all coaches, skating parents, everyone connected with US Figure Skating and with all posters on skating blogs. We discuss how bad the skating culture is in Russia and France; it’s time we own up to how bad the skating culture in the US can be. And most importantly, how much damage the negative comments about the SKATERS themselves can affect their mental health.

Gracie doesn’t hold back. She talks about all of her coaches including one she calls Cruella, her family’s complicated disfunction (thank goodness she had a twin sister for support) her sexual assault (still not resolved through Safe Sport), her eating disorders, the stresses of high expectations, the stresses of poor performances, the impact of body shaming, her experience in a mental health facility, why she decided to continue skating, a leave-behind letter from John Coughlin, and why she loves coaching kids. The average fan (myself included) make a lot of assumptions based on a few words or actions caught on camera or reported from a media session or posted in here (i.e. the throwing of her team jacket in the trash can.) We really don’t know much, if anything, about the athlete’s personal situation or their motivation.

 

[Lynn226]

Competitive rivals, sure. And Tara's mom threw shade at the Kwans more than once. But a few too many people blew that up into them disliking each other.

I remember the Tara's parents receiving a lot of criticism during her Olympic eligible years. I found this article about her dad. It sounds like a lonely existence.

The Lipinski Who Was Left Behind

Four years ago Jack Lipinski's family left him for a gold medal.His wife, Pat, and his only child, Tara, then 11, went toDelaware for the summer to take

vault.si.com

 

[canbelto]

I remember the days on fsworld when implying that maybe MK and Tara didn't hate each other could cause a flame war.

 

[MacMadame]

Yes, of course there are rivalries and fan bases. But this is not a team event, it is personal. If a person has emotional fragility, I have to imagine that this would be an exacerbating factor, But maybe not?

If Gracie says there wasn't a big rivalry it wasn't part of her problems in skating, I'm going to take her word for it. After all, she's been incredible open about her life so if a rivalry with Ashley impacted her mental health, she would say so IMO.

 

[VGThuy]

Yeah, I don’t think it affected Gracie. I do think it kind of affected me as a fan when it seemed to be popular to hate on Gracie for what felt like five seasons where it seemed to be motivated by some more vocal fans who bought into the whole “poor mistreated unsupported” Ashley narrative.

It reminded of the Evan v. Johnny dynamic on the boards where one had to be painted as the villain who had all support from the federation while the victim needed those fans to form an online army to defend them… and where that army bought into the whole “the best defense is a good offense” strategy.

 

[overedge]

I remember Tara's parents receiving a lot of criticism during her Olympic eligible years. I found this article about her dad. It sounds like a lonely existence.

The Lipinski Who Was Left Behind

Four years ago Jack Lipinski's family left him for a gold medal.His wife, Pat, and his only child, Tara, then 11, went toDelaware for the summer to take

vault.si.com

I remember that too, and they did sacrifice a lot for her - like living apart for a long time. OTOH when Tara's mom was quoted as saying things like "I know Tara’s competitor. Sixteen years old, and her mom and dad don’t work. Who is paying those bills?” it wasn't surprising that they got criticized. I think @Sparks description of this as a one-sided rivalry is bang on.

 

[Lynn226]

I remember that too, and they did sacrifice a lot for her - like living apart for a long time. OTOH when Tara's mom was quoted as saying things like "I know Tara’s competitor. Sixteen years old, and her mom and dad don’t work. Who is paying those bills?” it wasn't surprising that they got criticized. I think @Sparks description of this as a one-sided rivalry is bang on.

I remember that, too. I'm not sure what Tara's mom was so upset about. Michelle was a really good skater then, but she wasn't yet the unicorn (Gracie's word, I believe) she would become. She and Tara were trading titles from 1996 to 1998.

I agree @Sparks is right. The rivalry seemed a bit one-sided. I believe Tara spoke to Michelle during her infertility struggles. It's nice to see they moved on from whatever happened back then.

I found an article about Danny Kwan, also written during the Nagano Olympics.

Kwan's Dad Has Also Paid His Dues

Danny Kwan's father, Ho Yuen, was sold when he was 4 years old to a farmer in Canton, China, who needed someone to watch his cows, then bought back when he was 10 by a rich uncle.

www.latimes.com

 

[Private Citizen]

The crux of the Lipinskis' argument was that the USFS favored and pushed Kwan, even after Lipinski started routinely beating her in 1997. And there's some truth to that argument, although Pat Lipinski could certainly be a pill.

Gracie Gold, like Kwan, was the anointed one. I'm not surprised she didn't feel the rivalry because she had the push from the federation. (She was also a much better skater than Wagner.) Perhaps it's a "privilege" she didn't fully appreciate or understand. Not dissing her, just saying I'm not surprised that the favored ones don't necessarily feel the favoritism.

 

[Lynn226]

The crux of the Lipinskis' argument was that the USFS favored and pushed Kwan, even after Lipinski started routinely beating her in 1997. And there's some truth to that argument, although Pat Lipinski could certainly be a pill.

Gracie Gold, like Kwan, was the anointed one. I'm not surprised she didn't feel the rivalry because she had the push from the federation. (She was also a much better skater than Wagner.) Perhaps it's a "privilege" she didn't fully appreciate or understand. Not dissing her, just saying I'm not surprised that the favored ones don't necessarily feel the favoritism.

You might be right. I don't remember that aspect of it.

I remember Tara supposedly receiving favoritism as a junior. There was something about her receiving more favorable media treatment, even though a competitor finished above her. I can't remember the exact details.

ETA: I think I'm remembering the 1995 US Championships where Tara finished second to Sydney Vogel in Juniors. Per her Wikipedia page, Sydney is now a medical doctor.

 

[Frau Muller]

Am reading the book..........who was the coach she refers to as "Cruella" in her book?

I asked that question near the start of this thread (post 53). @Flip Jump answered Susan Liss (post 54).

 

[Winnipeg]

I guess noting rivalries makes the competition more news worthy?

 

[kwanfan1818]

. There was something about her receiving more favorable media treatment, even though a competitor finished above her. I can't remember the exact details.

In the US Nationals article that used to be a regular in sports Illustrated, in the Junior wrap-up, the news was that Sydne Vogel won, but it was Lipinski’s picture that appeared.

At the time, this was chalked up to her agent, not USFS.