From Russia With Love [#40]: Summer 2021 & into the Olympic season

[Amantide]

It's one thing to put doubt on this case based on the positive test that has come out. That's legit. It's entirely another putting a big question mark on the entire career of a coach who has absolutely no history with doping. This is going way overboard and shows your personal bias.

Eteri has more than one girl and based on her history she has never put all her eggs in one basket. Whether is Valieva, Trusova or Shcherbakova winning is all the same to her, as it should be.

 

[Perky Shae Lynn]

More will come to light

As per Stolbova she works with Moskvina's pair teams and she said Yes to the Dress. Apparently the groom is N. Morozov.

Oh dear. I forgot about that. If anything could make my evening worse, mentioning of N. Morozov certainly did it!

 

[Amantide]

More will come to light

As per Stolbova she works with Moskvina's pair teams and she said Yes to the Dress. Apparently the groom is N. Morozov.

You kidding me? She is marrying Morozov. WHELP!
I'm glad she is working with Pairs though, and with Moskvina no less.

 

[Perky Shae Lynn]

Everyone has jumped to the speculative conclusion that it was Eteri, but (and I’ve shared this in other parts of the board), it could’ve been adults specific to Valieva and not the coaching team.

I don’t think Eteri cares which specific skater wins, but I bet the parents do. The stiffest competition the Russian ladies have is domestic. It’s a blood bath to get out of nationals. Not all parents have their child’s best interest in mind or they have a distorted sense of ways to help their kid succeed.

Kamila is so far ahead of everyone else this season... she was making the Olympic team. She was winning the Euros. And she was likely wining the OGM. Why give her something when she was having a fantastic year anyway? And how would it help her? As a skating mom, I am at a loss here.

 

[BittyBug]

Marion Jones was winning everything, too. And she never failed a doping test either. It's just not much of a defense.

Look at the situation. The team doctor has a history of doping and one of the athletes has failed a drug test, which they're not even trying to deny. It's shocking to be sure, but it's a story we've seen many times in sport.

 

[NAOTMAA]

It's one thing to put doubt on this case based on the positive test that has come out. That's legit. It's entirely another putting a big question mark on the entire career of a coach who has absolutely no history with doping. This is going way overboard and shows your personal bias.

Eteri has more than one girl and based on her history she has never put all her eggs in one basket. Whether is Valieva, Trusova or Shcherbakova winning is all the same to her, as it should be.

I imagine Anna and Sasha, being Kamila's training mates, are under a very strong microscope themselves right now by all officials. I feel very bad for them as well along with Kamila

 

[Perky Shae Lynn]

You kidding me? She is marrying Morozov. WHELP!
I'm glad she is working with Pairs though, and with Moskvina no less.

I will say, he is really charming. Nice guy vibe, calm, funny, seems very kind, etc. But at his age, and with his ummmm romantic history, how does NM get these young, beautiful and successful women to fall for him??? One of the greatest mysteries of the universe.

 

[NAOTMAA]

Kamila is so far ahead of everyone else this season... she was making the Olympic team. She was winning the Euros. And she was likely wining the OGM. Why give her something when she was having a fantastic year anyway? And how would it help her? As a skating mom, I am at a loss here.

Well she did win Euros but her free skater score was only .24 points higher then Anna's. Even when crushing everyone in every other competition Olympic pressure is whole different game and ice is slippery. You never truly know until it's over and like others said the quest for Olympic gold can make some go irrational and crazy (Tonya Harding says hello lol)

 

[Amantide]

I imagine Anna and Sasha, being Kamila's training mates, are under a very strong microscope themselves right now by all officials. I feel very bad for them as well along with Kamila

At this point, all Russian skaters are. But, yes, those two girls more than anybody else.
I'm no fan of either of them (Valieva included, though I have a soft spot for her because I remember her since she was a babe) but I truly hope this will serve them as a kind of boost to go out there and have the skate of their life. Here is wishing them the best!

I will say, he is really charming. Nice guy vibe, calm, funny, seems very kind, etc. But how at his age, and with his ummmm romantic history, how does NM get these young, beautiful and successful women to fall for him??? One of the greatest mysteries of the universe.

Truth be told I don't know the guy, so I'm going by history and reputation as a womanizer. That's always a red flag for me. But it sure seems he has charms galore, so I can understand the appeal. At the end of the day, these are adults and I don't have to like it. So congrats to them and happy married life.

 

[Amantide]

Marion Jones was winning everything, too. And she never failed a doping test either. It's just not much of a defense.

Look at the situation. The team doctor has a history of doping and one of the athletes has failed a drug test, which they're not even trying to deny. It's shocking to be sure, but it's a story we've seen many times in sport.

Marion Jones is one individual. It's not much of a proof either.
As @NAOTMAA mentioned, Eteri has worked with a lot of skaters. Girls and boys, juniors and seniors, and so far there is nothing to suggests that doping is her practice. Even in Valieva's case we still don't know what happened. It can happen for sure but based on what we know (facts not speculations) of her career, I give the benefit of doubt to her.

Now, if it were about anorexia, that's a whole different matter.

 

[bladesofgorey]

"Competed at the highest levels and never failed a drug test before" is the same verse that is sung over and over in the Track and Field world every single time someone (athlete, coach, or both) effs up and didn't get the timing or ratios just right. Lots of ways to get away with it until you don't.

 

[Orm Irian]

Kamila is so far ahead of everyone else this season... she was making the Olympic team. She was winning the Euros. And she was likely wining the OGM. Why give her something when she was having a fantastic year anyway? And how would it help her? As a skating mom, I am at a loss here.

What makes you think that if they did it, it would only be this year, right now? The kind of impact TMZ has on the body is useful for athletes in training and development. It increases blood flow to the organs and muscles and thus improves stamina, decreases recovery time after training or injury, and enables the athlete to do more in preparation so that later, even without the drug in their system, they can do more in competition. An unethical doctor could have been dosing the poor kid for years as she came up the ranks without anybody catching on.

Trainers who dose athletes for this purpose are often also very good at managing doses so that they stay below the threshold at which they're actionable, or detectable. That's why testing is designed to be hypersensitive, to catch microdosing.

 

[Trillian]

Marion Jones was winning everything, too. And she never failed a doping test either. It's just not much of a defense.

Look at the situation. The team doctor has a history of doping and one of the athletes has failed a drug test, which they're not even trying to deny. It's shocking to be sure, but it's a story we've seen many times in sport.

Seriously. An athlete from a country with a documented history of state-sanctioned doping, working with a doctor who was disciplined for participating in that doping, tested positive for a banned substance. Or: a girl from a skating school that routinely prioritizes results over the long-term health of the athletes has traces of potentially harmful but competitively advantageous drugs in her system. Any way you look at it, this is not rocket science.

Maybe I’m wrong, but I’d rather be wrong than constantly trying to come up with increasingly farfetched excuses for adults who have a long history of children ending up badly hurt in their immediate vicinity.

 

[Perky Shae Lynn]

What makes you think that if they did it, it would only be this year, right now? The kind of impact TMZ has on the body is useful for athletes in training and development. It increases blood flow to the organs and muscles and thus improves stamina, decreases recovery time after training or injury, and enables the athlete to do more in preparation so that later, even without the drug in their system, they can do more in competition. An unethical doctor could have been dosing the poor kid for years as she came up the ranks without anybody catching on.

Trainers who dose athletes for this purpose are often also very good at managing doses so that they stay below the threshold at which they're actionable, or detectable. That's why testing is designed to be hypersensitive, to catch microdosing.

It's plausible. If the doses had been the same for the duration of the season, would it not be caught during prior testing? And if the doses are not the same, would an "expert" trainer make a change right before the Olympics, without any apparent reason to do so?

 

[BittyBug]

It's plausible. Would a trainer, who is very good at managing doses, make such a dreadful mistake right before the Olympics?

Um, to err is human.

 

[overedge]

Marion Jones is one individual. It's not much of a proof either.

Marion Jones wasn't just one individual. She was being doped by a laboratory that was doping many other athletes - not just in track and field, but in pro baseball and football too. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BALCO_scandal

As @NAOTMAA mentioned, Eteri has worked with a lot of skaters. Girls and boys, juniors and seniors, and so far there is nothing to suggests that doping is her practice.

Track and field coaches doped their athletes, or helped their athletes dope, for years without anyone knowing. If it wasn't for a few tenacious law-enforcement officers and journalists, they'd probably still be getting away with it. If a skater has a positive test for a banned substance, and their coach is well known for controlling every aspect of their students' training, and it's unlikely that the skater could have ingested the substance some other way.......I think there's more going on here than just one positive test.

 

[bladesofgorey]

It's plausible. If the doses had been the same for the duration of the season, would it not be caught during prior testing? And if the doses are not the same, would a trainer, who is very good at managing them, make a change right before the Olympics, with no apparent reason to do so?

If all the trainers and doctors were perfect at this we'd never get positive tests in high level athletes at all.

 

[Willin]

Maybe more importantly - they have to be damn careful about what they take - when they take it - and most top level athletes are going to be talking to someone about anything they consider taking, or having a plan for 'if A' take this because this is safe for you to take.

Yup. A big star in college football was suspended for a doping violation - a violation he caught by buying the wrong brand of vitamin. Athletes have to be very careful.

Marion Jones was winning everything, too. And she never failed a doping test either. It's just not much of a defense.

Look at the situation. The team doctor has a history of doping and one of the athletes has failed a drug test, which they're not even trying to deny. It's shocking to be sure, but it's a story we've seen many times in sport.

Yes. This is what I keep coming back to - Eteri has used a doctor with a history of doping and getting caught doping. As for why Eteri's skaters weren't caught before? Well, the doctor wasn't recruited or seen at Sambo until after 2018 - when Eteri's quad revolution began. There are also ways to cheat tests - if you use the drug at the right time you can have it out of your system by the time the test happens. For instance, Eteri could have her skaters take the substance during the off season to help them in training (when RUSADA does the monitoring) and then easily have them weaned by the time competition season starts.

 

[Perky Shae Lynn]

If all the trainers and doctors were perfect at this we'd never get positive tests in high level athletes at all.

Yes, but the point was - the trainers have been doing it for years without being caught. And then they suddenly do get caught. At the worst possible moment. Odd timing, no?

 

[overedge]

Yes, but the point was - the trainers have been doing it for years without being caught. And then they suddenly do get caught. At the worst possible moment. When the athlete is dominating. Odd timing, no?

No. They could have miscalculated the dose, or miscalculated the time it would take to clear her system. Or they could have thought, hey, this is an important competition and she needs to be extra ready, let's increase the dosage. All of those things happened to track and field athletes who tested positive for banned substances.

 

[euterpe]

The drug was detected in December, sometime around Nationals and before Euros. That would have been a time of heavy duty training, and that is when the drug would have been most useful---to allow the body to recover quickly from
extended periods of rigorous training.

 

[Amantide]

Marion Jones wasn't just one individual. She was being doped by a laboratory that was doping many other athletes - not just in track and field, but in pro baseball and football too. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BALCO_scandal



Track and field coaches doped their athletes, or helped their athletes dope, for years without anyone knowng. If it wasn't for a few tenacious law-enforcement officers and journalists, they'd probably still be getting away with it. If a skater has a positive test for a banned substance, and their coach is well known for controlling every aspect of their students' training, and it's unlikely that the skater could have ingested the substance some other way.......I think there's more going on here than just one positive test.

Again, you are bringing examples and history of other athletes and sports. If we follow this logic then absolutely no sport, athlete or country is safe from doubts, speculations and/or accusations. I watched the Short Track competition the other day and I enjoyed it. Should I be thinking they might have been doped because that's what happened in the past and with other athletes? Of course not. Could it be? Sure. But until it's proven that competition is legit. Cycling has been hammered by doping cases and heavily damaged its reputation because of it. That's fair enough. There are good reasons for it. I still do not throw accusations at every cyclist or coach because of it. I just like to go case by case and with what I know.

And no, this is not me trying to find "farfetched excuses" for Eteri. She is a grown*ss woman. I am not her mother, sister or friend. I don't even like her as a coach because her students, in general, are not beautiful to watch and they do not have a longevity. The only 3 skaters she has coached that I have loved are: Julia, Kostornaia and Polina T. (hardly a success story), and the reasons I loved watching them have little to do with their coach. If anything, based on the history of the skaters I have loved, I would feel a little resentment towards her.

Sports in general have a problem with doping and at this point the issue for me is why and what can be done to resolve this. It seems to be a "cancer" and it's taking away all the pleasure I have watching the sports in general, and figure skating in particular. Testing doesn't seem to be the solution either. Although it surely needs to be there. But we need a "revolution" here.

Anyway, I really think this thread has been hijacked with Valieva's case and doping. Perhaps a new thread dedicated to it would be better and leave this thread free to comment about other Russian athletes&news.

 

[Trillian]

I watched the Short Track competition the other day and I enjoyed it. Should I be thinking they might have been doped because that's what happened in the past and with other athletes?

No. But if one of them tested positive for a banned substance? Then yes, you should think that they might be doping.

 

[Amantide]

No. But if one of them tested positive for a banned substance? Then yes, you should think that they might be doping.

Well, I guess we differ here. I would be disappointed but I would certainly not think that everybody else was. And maybe I would be wrong, I don't know. But the day I thought that is the day I stop watching sport. Not just the Olympics but Euros, Worlds, GPF etc., because what's the point? Lets close the shop entirely and be done with it.

p.s. I understand the "might". But what I've read here are outright accusations. There is a difference.

 

[Orm Irian]

It's plausible. If the doses had been the same for the duration of the season, would it not be caught during prior testing? And if the doses are not the same, would an "expert" trainer make a change right before the Olympics, without any apparent reason to do so?

Even doses of legal and legitimate medications are sometimes calculated based on factors including the recipient's weight/body size, because that can affect how they're metabolised and what impact they have on the body. If a dose of a medication is calculated for Weight A and the recipient drops several kilos and ends up at Weight B, the medication can have an anomalous impact, or not be metabolised as quickly or as fully because the proportions are off and now there's too much for their body to deal with. In the case of athletic doping, that might well mean that an athlete who metabolised Dose A fully enough at Weight A that it wouldn't register on a test might not be able to do the same for Dose A at Weight B.

Memo to shonky coaches: don't both dope your athletes and encourage them to lose every ounce of weight they humanly can at the same time, I guess.

 

[rink_mom]

ITA update

International Testing Agency-Beijing 2022: The ITA informs on figure skater Kamila Valieva

ita.sport

 

[aka_gerbil]

ITA update

International Testing Agency-Beijing 2022: The ITA informs on figure skater Kamila Valieva

ita.sport

If the website goes down, this Twitter account has screenshots.

https://twitter.com/jtoneysbeat/status/1491972471230111750?s=21

 

[asdf334]

In the case of athletic doping, that might well mean that an athlete who metabolised Dose A fully enough at Weight A that it wouldn't register on a test might not be able to do the same for Dose A at Weight B.

This is exactly what happened with the Romanians in Sydney. A few members of the team had also taken Sudafed, but were taller/bigger than Raducan and why they didn't test positive.

 

[Bigbird]

You kidding me? She is marrying Morozov. WHELP!
I'm glad she is working with Pairs though, and with Moskvina no less.

Let's wait and see though. Personally I'm in denial, re Stolbova.

The rest I'll take day by day.

 

[clairecloutier]

LOL, this thread. I guess no one here remembers Lance Armstrong: “Never a failed test”

Lance Armstrong: '20+ Year Career ... Never A Failed Test ... I Rest My Case'

The cycling legend has used the Web, and in particular his Twitter page, to hit back hard against the latest allegation that he used a performance-enhancing drug when he was competing. And he's raised questions about his accuser's credibility.

www.npr.org