From Russia With Love [#40]: Summer 2021 & into the Olympic season

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also, I wish the Navka's and Yagudin's would think about the young Russian skaters who they harm with these comments. They aren't responsible for them, but they inevitably probably surround them with a bit of a dark cloud, even though they aren't their fault and they obviously can't stand up to these hugely prominent people who also hold a lot of financial power over who gets to do what. If Navka and Yagudin care about the sport, they would keep these thoughts to themselves, even if they aren't educated enough not to have them. I think that whole generation sometimes seems to have trouble letting go of the spotlight.
Yagudin and Navka lived in the US for some time. They should know better. Goats in mink will always be goats.
 

starrynight

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3,001
I am going to regret this question, but what's Navka's new post with Gabriella and Guillaume's picture about?

I can see that Navka is just doubling down and continuing to stir the pot. Basically continuing to be a ‘mean girl’ because she can.

Who is the gymnast that Navka seems intent to pick on? I would spare a thought for them.

I don’t understand why Navka considers herself an authority on this. It has as much credibility as when every four years around Olympic time outsiders who know nothing of the sport like to tease figure skaters.

Part of me thinks that Navka might be trying to create some Papadakis/Cizeron vs Russia narrative to further serve the ice dance gold medal struggle - but perhaps that is over complicating this. I just say that because Kaitlyn Weaver also replied to Navka to tell her not to say such things, but Navka seems to be just focusing on P/C.
 
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Sylvia

So happy the JGP season is back!
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Coach Elena Kustarova shared with RIA Novosti correspondent Boris Khodorovsky some details of the preparation for the Olympic season of duets Tiffany Zagorski / Jonathan Guerreiro and Anastasia Skoptcova / Kirill Aleshin.
 

aliona22

Well-Known Member
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283
Part of me thinks that Navka might be trying to create some Papadakis/Cizeron vs Russia narrative to further serve the ice dance gold medal struggle - but perhaps that is over complicating this. I just say that because Kaitlyn Weaver also replied to Navka to tell her not to say such things, but Navka seems to be just focusing on P/C.

Baiul called her out too and commended the IOC for its position on gender equality.

The gymnast in the video is Cristofer Benitez.
 

love_skate2011

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3,209
Russia is supporting Men's Rhtythmic Gymnastics , Viner is promoting it and collaborating with Japanese gymnasts

BUT Viner and Russia prefer the Japanese mens RG which is a masculine mix of acrobatics , jumping butterflies and aparratus NOT the Spanish version which leans towars the same womens elements with leaps and flexibility.

Here is the Difference

What Russia promotes for Mens RG - Japanese RG


This is Spanish RG

 

love_skate2011

Well-Known Member
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3,209
Russia is supporting Men's Rhtythmic Gymnastics , Viner is promoting it and collaborating with Japanese gymnasts

BUT Viner and Russia prefer the Japanese mens RG which is a masculine mix of acrobatics , jumping butterflies and aparratus NOT the Spanish version which leans towars the same womens elements with leaps and flexibility.

Here is the Difference

What Russia promotes for Mens RG - Japanese RG


This is Spanish RG


This is understandable Nobody will Promote the Spanish Version as majority of the world will find it unacceptable for a man to even compete in this, I'd think even in the US this will still get mocked ?
 

zebraswan

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1,213
I don't think it is worth the energy to get worked up over the provocation from people like Navka. Look who she is married to...she has an agenda to push and she isn't ever going to suddenly see the light and change her mind. Yagudin is a little different because he talks crap in the role of commentator and gets paid for it, which I find more disturbing.

You can't drag these people out of the stone age...they are convinced that the "decadent west" is the root of all evil. Or maybe they just have to keep pushing that propaganda for the plebs because it's expected of them.
 

Rina RUS

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Clearly no one ever told her that if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.
the irony of Russian skating is that all the young athletes in their teens and twenties all behave impeccably and show so much discipline ... and the adults all in their 40s are the ones that create the immature drama.

It isn’t like people from other countries say only nice things or say nothing.
Do you remember those stories about the caricatures by Charlie Hebdo? They even thought it was OK to laugh at a dead kid. Is it just about freedom of speech? Many people thought it was OK to support Charlie Hebdo. Of course, the attack on Charlie Hebdo was a crime, but it doesn’t mean that their caricatures were not offensive.
Maybe those infamous costumes which Domnina and Shabalin had, were an example of a bad taste (many people think so, right?), but I guess nobody thinks Domnina and Shabalin wanted to laugh at somebody on purpose. Opinions differ. Yet it is weird, if the costumes of this pair are something extremely offensive, but the caricatures by Charlie Hebdo are just an opinion.
Somebody dislikes Domnina’s costume, Navka dislikes another costume. Opinions differ.
I guess you are wrong, if you think that a “well-mannered” person from your country will always look “well-mannered” in other countries.
Russians think that a decent person should give up his/her seat in public transport to an elderly person, or to a disabled person, or to a pregnant woman, or to a passenger with a small kid. It is about all the seats in public transport. It is a soviet tradition. A foreigner who doesn’t do the same can look ill-mannered.
Russian men almost always help, if they see a woman with a heavy suit-case on the stairs. It is not flirting or understatement. They are just used to think that a decent man is supposed to help in such cases.
Yes, countries differ too.
 

Bigbird

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I don't think it is worth the energy to get worked up over the provocation from people like Navka. Look who she is married to...she has an agenda to push and she isn't ever going to suddenly see the light and change her mind. Yagudin is a little different because he talks crap in the role of commentator and gets paid for it, which I find more disturbing.

You can't drag these people out of the stone age...they are convinced that the "decadent west" is the root of all evil. Or maybe they just have to keep pushing that propaganda for the plebs because it's expected of them.
She's just an elegant, well dressed, OGM winning, huskster and mean girl. Normal Navka, nothing more to it. GG would be better served to completely ignore her.
 

Frau Muller

Sailing the Seven Ultra-Cs!
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I don't think it is worth the energy to get worked up over the provocation from people like Navka. Look who she is married to...she has an agenda to push and she isn't ever going to suddenly see the light and change her mind. Yagudin is a little different because he talks crap in the role of commentator and gets paid for it, which I find more disturbing.

You can't drag these people out of the stone age...they are convinced that the "decadent west" is the root of all evil. Or maybe they just have to keep pushing that propaganda for the plebs because it's expected of them.

Not all peoples on earth have to have the same values, preferences, religions, etc. Why can’t we just accept people for what they are?
 

Rina RUS

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I bet she doesn't know that Irina Viner is behind Men's rhythmic gymnastics in Russia, openly said that they deserve more recognition and she plans to work on it and develop this sport.

As for Yagudin, he participated in rhythmic gymnastics (in a pair). With ribbons. Irina Viner said he could join the national team (partly it was a joke, she just liked his artistry).
(He tried to work with a stick too, but his skills, of course, are far from those which you can see on the Japanese video. Berezhnaya participated in that project from the beginning and won in it.)
 

michalle

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5,344
It's not brain surgery, just don't post on instagram mocking this guy. It's not hard. There are so many other things to post about instead. Post about how pretty Russia looks in the summer, your breakfast, the beautiful dress you're wearing, whatever. There are literally a million other possibilities. But if you choose to post about this, knowing that people all over the world read your instagram, why be surprised when some of those people get mad? I love the outspokenness of Russian skaters, coaches, etc..., but if you choose to go after a specific person, like Yagudin did with Brown, and like this post, then people might come back after you. That's just how life works. When Duhamel said what she did about Anna S, did people in the Russian fs world say "well she has a right to her own opinion?" Not that I remember. I remember people being mad. And they had a right to be, because imo what she said was annoying and she deserved to be called out. And Navka does too, and so did Yagudin. No one is saying Russia has to transform overnight into some annoying "I'm so happy to be here" PC stereotype or whatever the concern is. Just be fun and honest without gratuitously attacking some athlete for no real reason out of nowhere on social media.
 
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starrynight

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I think the point is, cultural differences aside, Navka is just being unkind and a bully.

It's really no different to when you are a child and you see someone strange on the train and your mother tells you to mind your own business and not to point and stare.

Sure, the gymnast's costume might be outside of her experience and usual exposure, but so what? There's a big difference between being confused by something as compared to then getting on to a big massive social network platform and making fun of someone.

And as an aside, lots of people mock figure skating, but that's not going to stop us enjoying our sport.
 

Immortelle

Rejected by Krasnopolski
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Just my take on this: I think the video in question is great, he has wonderful skills and musicality. I admit, I don’t watch a lot of rhythmic gymnastics because I get creeped out by the contortions of some of the athletes, I just don’t think it’s that attractive to watch compared to artistic gymnastics.
I find the same with some of the spin positions used in skating too. Just because you can manipulate your body into that shape doesn’t mean it suits your choreography or your music.
 

Bigbird

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Just my take on this: I think the video in question is great, he has wonderful skills and musicality. I admit, I don’t watch a lot of rhythmic gymnastics because I get creeped out by the contortions of some of the athletes, I just don’t think it’s that attractive to watch compared to artistic gymnastics.
I find the same with some of the spin positions used in skating too. Just because you can manipulate your body into that shape doesn’t mean it suits your choreography or your music.
Tell that to Bobrova and Stepanova. But we digress. What is going on with Katashinskaya and new partner? Will we get to see them come Junior test skates?
 

Frau Muller

Sailing the Seven Ultra-Cs!
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I think the one not accepting diversity is precisely Navka. She is the one pointing out how unacceptable she sees that guy
True but I’m referring to both sides...comments such as “dragging Russians out of the Stone Age...” One man’s Stone Age is another’s Enlightment. The problem is when one side maliciously mocks (Navka) and the other insults in kind.
 

thvu

Usova's Apprentice
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5,305
Not all peoples on earth have to have the same values, preferences, religions, etc. Why can’t we just accept people for what they are?

True but I’m referring to both sides...comments such as “dragging Russians out of the Stone Age...” One man’s Stone Age is another’s Enlightment. The problem is when one side maliciously mocks (Navka) and the other insults in kind.

Because tolerance for the intolerant gets innocent people killed.
 

Rina RUS

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Because tolerance for the intolerant gets innocent people killed.

As for innocent victims…
USA admit that USA kill civilians in Syria and Iraq (when they bomb those countries).
https://iz.ru/1124563/2021-02-14/ss...rnymi-zhertvami-svoikh-udarov-v-sirii-i-irake
It seems nobody cares that Ukrainian army kills civilians of Ukraine (including kids).
Sorry, I’m not going to discuss these topics here.
I just think it is weird that people pretend to be more civilized than they are.
 

Rina RUS

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When Duhamel said what she did about Anna S, did people in the Russian fs world say "well she has a right to her own opinion?" Not that I remember. I remember people being mad.
OK. Let it be a good example. I didn’t say that people should agree with every “opinion” or like every “opinion” (including Navka’s post), but it is weird when people think they are more civilized, that other people just need to be dragged out of the stone age. I think this is called arrogance in English.
 

starrynight

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Navka is acting the same as plenty of public figures all over the world who get onto social networks to offer spicy opinions for the sole reason of attention seeking and pursuing drama.

People’s negative reactions to her trying to bully that gymnast are hardly an anti-Russian thing. If a skater from anywhere else made such posts the reaction would be 1000 times worse.

Anyway, I shouldn’t be focusing on this when there is a book out by Mishin. Has anyone read it?
 
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46
I can see that Navka is just doubling down and continuing to stir the pot. Basically continuing to be a ‘mean girl’ because she can.

Who is the gymnast that Navka seems intent to pick on? I would spare a thought for them.

I don’t understand why Navka considers herself an authority on this. It has as much credibility as when every four years around Olympic time outsiders who know nothing of the sport like to tease figure skaters.

Part of me thinks that Navka might be trying to create some Papadakis/Cizeron vs Russia narrative to further serve the ice dance gold medal struggle - but perhaps that is over complicating this. I just say that because Kaitlyn Weaver also replied to Navka to tell her not to say such things, but Navka seems to be just focusing

Tell that to Bobrova and Stepanova. But we digress. What is going on with Katashinskaya and new partner? Will we get to see them come Junior test skates?
Saw Katashinskaya skate with her new partner on instagram and they looked great, check it out.(I only pray and hope it is a realistic partnership)
 

thvu

Usova's Apprentice
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5,305
I just think it is weird that people pretend to be more civilized than they are.

Your reasoning is absolutely absurd. Your position is basically this:
“Dangerous bigotry that leads to the deaths and murders of innocents should be tolerated because other people do shitty things too.”
It’s all shitty @Rina RUS . The only one trying to justify the murder of innocent people here is you.
 

starrynight

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3,001
I kind of get the impression that some of these attitudes are considered to be a rebellion against the West.

And sure, the idea that the USA gets to play the moral police to the rest of the world is a bit absurd. I understand why such an idea is rejected.

But I don't think that basic issues like respect to one another should get caught up in such things. After all, in each nation, it is our own brothers, sisters, neighbours, aunts, uncles, colleagues, friends etc these things concern and effect.
 

Frau Muller

Sailing the Seven Ultra-Cs!
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Your reasoning is absolutely absurd. Your position is basically this:
“Dangerous bigotry that ....

Who determines “bigotry”? Bigotry to one group isn’t bigotry for others, say, members of Orthodox or other conservative religions. RESPECT towards fellow humans of all beliefs is the way.
 

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