From Russia With Love (#36) Spring into Summer 2020

[Rina RUS]

... and yet a certain portion of both Soviet and Nazi soldiers terribly tortured the opposing party's town-dwellers and villagers, especially women (if you know what i mean)

This is right. Yet it will be also right to say, that in the end of war (when they were coming to Western Europe) many soviet soldiers were not ordinary people, but criminals taken from prisons who were allowed to deserve their freedome by fighting. They were taken from prisons because lots and lots of "ordinary" soldiers were already killed, because women were fighting, because little kids were making weapon (standing on a box, if a kid still was too short to do it).
And... sorry, in another case it would be wrong to speak about the order, but in this case the order is "Nazi... and Soviet". Just because when soviet soldiers were finally coming to Western Europe, even "ordinary" men could be insane after the things they had seen. I don't mean, that it's OK to do bad things, if you are not the first one who does it, - I just mean people even became insane or almost insane on that war.

 

[Tinami Amori]

This is right. Yet it will be also right to say, that in the end of war (when they were coming to Western Europe) many soviet soldiers were not ordinary people, but criminals taken from prisons who were allowed to deserve their freedome by fighting. They were taken from prisons because lots and lots of "ordinary" soldiers were already killed, because women were fighting, because little kids were making weapon (standing on a box, if a kid still was too short to do it).
And... sorry, in another case it would be wrong to speak about the order, but in this case the order is "Nazi... and Soviet". Just because when soviet soldiers were finally coming to Western Europe, even "ordinary" men could be insane after the things they had seen. I don't mean, that it's OK to do bad things, if you are not the first one who does it, - I just mean people even became insane or almost insane on that war.

A lot of issues you speak about are correct, true, and fair to mention. There are situations in wars (and life unfortunately) that deservingly lead to "eye for an eye".

But one has to be fair! and what "eye" has been taken by 13 to 16 year old school girls or 90 years old grand-mothers or 3 year old kids, who did nothing and voted to nothing from the Nazi regime (as of mid 1930's) to be thrown onto the rifle bayonets? or burned alive? yes, Nazis burned your village and relatives, so go burn Nazis, not women and children who by logic could not have participated in the evil activities... (no photos required, we have enough of "stuff" today).

P.S. I'd love people to see this old movie about WWI, directed by Jean Renoir, with Jean Gabin and Erich von Stroheim, called "La Grande Illusion". https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0028950/

Excellent recap - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcO8rEjoG0c
It's not quite about war, but human relationships and the society of those times.
Two noble men/aristocrats, end up on opposite sides. One is a prisoner and the other is a jailer. They knew each other from the past and were quite friendly playing various entertainment games of high society (tennis, target shooting, etc).

They both do their soldier-duty, stand up for the interests of their country, but in social setting remain cordial and civil, respecting each other.

Like they said in Pygmalion: "A fake gentleman treats a real Lady like a street urchin, and a true gentleman treats a street urchin like a Lady". But many (ethnic) Russians of course would not know this, since these "left wing radicals" exterminated or deported all the Nobility and Aristocrats during the Revolution... Not just criminals were let into battles, many the regular soldiers were quite the Neanderthals speciments, if we'll look at it honestly - worst than "Sobakevich" in "Dog's Heart"... and could give a run for their money to M-13 Mexican gang...

 

[Rina RUS]

But one has to be fair!

I've already said I don't think, that it's OK to take "an eye for an eye ", I just say a person can even have a problem with his mental health after such an experience.

 

[Mad for Skating]

... and yet a certain portion of both Soviet and Nazi soldiers terribly tortured the opposing party's town-dwellers and villagers, especially women (if you know what i mean). Respect goes for fighting and defending your land - no respect is deserved for those who went beyond defending or preventing.

While I appreciate you acknowledging the atrocities committed against women during the war, I would really like to see you show the same level of compassion to all women who have been ill-used by men, rather than blaming the women because they weren’t “pure” enough.

(I’m not looking for a fight here, but I just find it a bit hypocritical give him the discussion we were having a few days ago).

 

[barbarafan]

While I appreciate you acknowledging the atrocities committed against women during the war, I would really like to see you show the same level of compassion to all women who have been ill-used by men, rather than blaming the women because they weren’t “pure” enough.

(I’m not looking for a fight here, but I just find it a bit hypocritical give him the discussion we were having a few days ago).

You seem to have quite a chip on your shoulder against men. Perhaps you should look around a bit and you will notice that in both male and females there are good and bad.

 

[starrynight]

You seem to have quite a chip on your shoulder against men. Perhaps you should look around a bit and you will notice that in both male and females there are good and bad.

No. @Mad for Skating is referencing a very specific conversation from another thread.

 

[Rafter]

Just saw on CNN that Navka’s husband (Putin’s spokesperson) has been hospitalized with Covid.
Just

 

[muffinplus]

Just saw on CNN that Navka’s husband (Putin’s spokesperson) has been hospitalized with *********.
Just

Navka as well

 

[VGThuy]

Oh man Pygmalion was brought up. Love it. But the way the line was quoted didn’t fully capture the entire point from Shaw, who was a socialist. Here it is below:

Eliza to Pickering: ...the difference between a lady and a flower girl is not how she behaves, but how she's treated. I shall always be a flower girl to Professor Higgins, because he always treats me as a flower girl, and always will; but I know I can be a lady to you, because you always treat me as a lady, and always will.

A few scenes later.


HIGGINS. About you, not about me. If you come back I shall treat you just as I have always treated you. I can't change my nature; and I don't intend to change my manners. My manners are exactly the same as Colonel Pickering's.

LIZA. That's not true. He treats a flower girl as if she was a duchess.

HIGGINS. And I treat a duchess as if she was a flower girl.

LIZA. I see. [She turns away composedly, and sits on the ottoman, facing the window]. The same to everybody.

HIGGINS [grinning, a little taken down] Without accepting the comparison at all points, Eliza, it's quite true that your father is not a snob, and that he will be quite at home in any station of life to which his eccentric destiny may call him. [Seriously] The great secret, Eliza, is not having bad manners or good manners or any other particular sort of manners, but having the same manner for all human souls: in short, behaving as if you were in Heaven, where there are no third-class carriages, and one soul is as good as another.

 

[aliona22]

Navka as well

This article has quotes from Navka, saying they are both doing better. This website looks sketchy but AP used some of these quotes so I assume it's legit.

 

[Eislauffan]

This article has quotes from Navka, saying they are both doing better. This website looks sketchy but AP used some of these quotes so I assume it's legit.

Tatiana Navka posted on her Instagram confirming what was said in the article.

Login • Instagram

Welcome back to Instagram. Sign in to check out what your friends, family & interests have been capturing & sharing around the world.

www.instagram.com

 

[Mad for Skating]

You seem to have quite a chip on your shoulder against men. Perhaps you should look around a bit and you will notice that in both male and females there are good and bad.

I don’t hate men as a whole, only men who don’t treat women as they should. I think that’s fair enough.
Also, I’m aware that not all women are good people; I was just making reference to TA’s post about the male soldiers and the civilian women.

No. @Mad for Skating is referencing a very specific conversation from another thread.

Thanks @starrynight, that’s exactly what I was referring to.

 

[Rina RUS]

I just... remembered all these videos
(at least one flower in each video)

FLOWERS
(an ice play about a coach and her skaters)

Act 1
Episode 1. Only one flower for two girls

Алексей Ягудин, Максим Маринин - Сцены "Детство" и "Цветок Кармен". "Кармен" 5.11.15 Часть 2

Видео Ola

www.youtube.com

Episode 2. Inviting a choreographer for the skaters

Ужин с придурком. Мария Петрова - Илья Авербух

http://facebook.com/PetrovaTikhonov - Мария Петрова и Илья Авербух в ледовом шоу Первого канала «Ледниковый период. Кубок профессионалов». Выпуск 7. Кино 199...

www.youtube.com

Episode 3. A rival coach appears

Evgeni Plushenko 2003 Worlds gala only you＋encore

Evgeni Plushenko 2003 Worlds gala only you＋encore

www.youtube.com

Episode 4. Where have all the skaters gone?

Татьяна Навка и Роман Костомаров Юбилей Татьяны Тарасовой в кругу друзей 70!

Юбилейный вечер к 70-летию заслуженного тренера СССР Татьяны Анатольевны Тарасовой который состоялся 17-18 февраля 2017 года и отмечали в «Лужниках». Выступа...

www.youtube.com

Act 2
Episode 1. A new student in her group!

Ягудин, Навка, ТТММ "Огни большого города" Пермь 30.03.13 Часть 2

"Как мне узнать тебя" - Навка, Маринин, Шабалин, Ставиский, Хвалько. "Джекпот" - Ягудин "Ангел большого города" Тотьмянина Маринин, Тихонов

www.youtube.com

Episode 2. A program for the new student

Alexei Yagudin 1999 Super Stars The Rose

www.youtube.com

Episode 3. Is she so cruel to them?

Ice Age-3 2009/10/24, Lanskaya Yagudin

ICE AGE 3 - Battle of the titans, 2009/10/24, Valeria Lanskaya Alexei Yagudin

www.youtube.com

Happy end

Алексей Ягудин в программе "Девчата" 09.07.10

www.youtube.com

 

[Loves_Shizuka]

Is Zagitova coming back?

Даниил Глейхенгауз: «Скоро узнаете про музыку к новым программам Алины Загитовой»

Даниил Глейхенгауз , хореограф группы Этери Тутберидзе , прокомментировал изменение стоимости прыжков в фигурном катании, а также рассказал о музыке к новым программами Алины Загитовой .

www.sports.ru

 

[TAHbKA]

Is Zagitova coming back?

Даниил Глейхенгауз: «Скоро узнаете про музыку к новым программам Алины Загитовой»

Даниил Глейхенгауз , хореограф группы Этери Тутберидзе , прокомментировал изменение стоимости прыжков в фигурном катании, а также рассказал о музыке к новым программами Алины Загитовой .

www.sports.ru

According to her instagram she held an off ice online practice with Gleikhengauze and then answered some questions. She was asked about the music, to which Daniil explains that they can't decide now on anything because the music sounds very different on the rink and they can't make a decision till they are on the rink and have a chance to hear the piece.

 

[Ka3sha]

Well, Adelina Sotnikova also took part in the test skates and showed her new programs once. Just saying

 

[babayaga]

According to her instagram she held an off ice online practice with Gleikhengauze and then answered some questions. She was asked about the music, to which Daniil explains that they can't decide now on anything because the music sounds very different on the rink and they can't make a decision till they are on the rink and have a chance to hear the piece.

He did say that something is chosen if I remember correctly. He just doesn't want to announce the choices until they hear them on the rink. And Alina never left, she took a short break, so it's not even a comeback. I miss her, I am glad that predictions that she is clearly done are false!

 

[tony]

Zagitova, if she chooses to compete whenever the ISU opens back up, has nothing to lose. Everyone is at an equal disadvantage right now, and there's no way to know if/how the skaters will recover and get back into their pre-quarantine forms. If she wants to get back to work and try her best, all the power to her.

 

[babayaga]

I was hoping Alina will make a coaching change during this time to be honest. It will be hard for me to cheer for Alina and dislike her coaches at the same time, but it is still better than if she just retired.

Zagitova, if she chooses to compete whenever the ISU opens back up, has nothing to lose. Everyone is at an equal disadvantage right now, and there's no way to know if/how the skaters will recover and get back into their pre-quarantine forms. If she wants to get back to work and try her best, all the power to her.

Indeed, this break sort of put everyone on the equal foot for the next season. Gleihengaus said the ice training will not resume until after June 1st. This will give Alina enough time to prepare for her exams and then focus on training.

 

[TAHbKA]

He did say that something is chosen if I remember correctly. He just doesn't want to announce the choices until they hear them on the rink. And Alina never left, she took a short break, so it's not even a comeback. I miss her, I am glad that predictions that she is clearly done are false!

I don't recall him mentioning anything was chosen but generally answering why they are not willing to say anything right now.

Zagitova has everything to lose - she is the current World and Olympic champion. She was already beaten by Kostornaya 3 times and by Trusova/Scherbakova/Kihira/Tennel once. Am sure she doesn't want that to repeat. My bet it she will do the test skate, 1-2 B competitions, may be a GP event, but she would have to be quite silly showing up at the Nationals to become there what? 6th if she skates clean? out of top 10 if she makes the tiniest mistake? Why would she?

 

[mjb52]

Why not, if she likes skating? I don't think coming in 10th at Russian Nationals takes anything away from what she already achieved.

 

[starrynight]

but she would have to be quite silly showing up at the Nationals to become there what? 6th if she skates clean? out of top 10 if she makes the tiniest mistake? Why would she?

Depends if she wants to become a 'career skater'. With shows not happening around the world due to travel restrictions and audience restrictions it may be a better financial move to return to skating.

If she can get paid a salary or given funding to continue training and competing, it might be a better career move at the moment. And who knows what can happen down the track? An opportunity could open up. If someone like Tukt can land a quad in her 20s, anything is possible.

Zagitova's Cleopatra program was the first program she did that really captured my imagination. She has more to contribute from the entertainment side of skating.

I think there was a big concern a while ago that Sambo 70 did not allow its image to be tainted by skaters regressing. But maybe they will be able to move on from such attitudes.

 

[rfisher]

But, Russia typically only funds the top 5 or 6. Top 10 won't cut it, moreover her endorsements could drop significantly. If she doesn't come in in the top 3 at the test skates, I don't see her competing. I like Zagitova a lot and would be happy if she decided to compete again, but she doesn't want to learn the quad and there are too many young skaters who already has it or them in some cases. Most of the Russian coaches don't want to be tainted by skaters regressing, not just Sambo-70. They and their rinks get funding based on how many winners they produce.

 

[Lanie]

I hope she does come back because I think she like Sotnikova really has shown marked improvement. But we know how that went for poor Adelina

 

[TAHbKA]

Depends if she wants to become a 'career skater'. With shows not happening around the world due to travel restrictions and audience restrictions it may be a better financial move to return to skating.
If she can get paid a salary or given funding to continue training and competing, it might be a better career move at the moment.

To be paid a salary she would have to be top 6, which I highly doubt she can at the moment. She would also waste more on staying healthy than what she would be earning. With the travelling restrictions not only she would not be able to travel for the shows, but for the competitions as well, so how would that help her?
Sotnikova set an example to what happens to an Olympic champion who was beaten by 6 random girls at the nationals. I don't think she did herself any favours with that and Zagitova might as well be smart enough to learn from someone else's mistakes.

Why not, if she likes skating? I don't think coming in 10th at Russian Nationals takes anything away from what she already achieved.

Nothing from what she already achieved, a lot from what she might earn in the future.

 

[babayaga]

I don't recall him mentioning anything was chosen but generally answering why they are not willing to say anything right now.

He was vague, but his wording was "you will find out soon, we cannot announce until we hear the music on the ice". It did not sound as if they didn't even start choosing yet, I disagree.

As for what she has to lose - I actually think it is not a terrible tragedy for Alina to lose to stronger competitors. How many time she said I am happy to be second/third, since tomorrow I may not be top three at all. She knew very well who is coming up and in particular looked very happy to be in third place at GPF after the short program. I think if she trains well and goes back to her best form she may fight for the third spot at nationals. Trusova did not look unbeatable at all at her last two competitions last year.

 

[VenusH.]

But, Russia typically only funds the top 5 or 6. Top 10 won't cut it, moreover her endorsements could drop significantly. If she doesn't come in in the top 3 at the test skates, I don't see her competing. I like Zagitova a lot and would be happy if she decided to compete again, but she doesn't want to learn the quad and there are too many young skaters who already has it or them in some cases. Most of the Russian coaches don't want to be tainted by skaters regressing, not just Sambo-70. They and their rinks get funding based on how many winners they produce.

She didn't said she does not want to learn quad... just she would have to lose weight for it. But from WHERE? Śure, she could close her mouth and not eat, not drink water and other nonsense she spouted... but under Eteri, she will never learn quad, unless she is willing to starve and break her back for it. And at this point reworking her technique while having crap slung on her from various people for "betraying" Eteri... not sure it is possible.

But on the other hand, maybe this quarantine caused many to lose their quads and Alina has her years of experience in her favor.

 

[mjb52]

I don't accept at all that Alina needs to lose weight to learn a quad but just looking at established precedent maybe she should learn a triple axel? How is her double? The triple axel seems especially friendly to spring and power and not the whipping it around technique if you look at who has landed it in the past. I have confessed my lack of intense interest in the technique side of the sport elsewhere so it's just a thought; I'm no expert!

 

[Mad for Skating]

I don't accept at all that Alina needs to lose weight to learn a quad but just looking at established precedent maybe she should learn a triple axel? How is her double? The triple axel seems especially friendly to spring and power and not the whipping it around technique if you look at who has landed it in the past. I have confessed my lack of intense interest in the technique side of the sport elsewhere so it's just a thought; I'm no expert!

I think it would be possible if she used a similar technique to Tuktamysheva. Liza is an adult woman with a solid 3A who hasn’t sacrificed her health for it. If a skater really needs to be bone-thin to land their jumps, there’s something wrong with their technique.

 

[Tinami Amori]

But, Russia typically only funds the top 5 or 6. Top 10 won't cut it, moreover her endorsements could drop significantly. If she doesn't come in in the top 3 at the test skates, I don't see her competing.

.... in reverse to yours order...
- Test Skate results do exist for all participants and who the top 3 are, but never published officially (one either relies on word of mouth, or find must a way or a person to get into RFFS's system IF anyone a) bothers to enter it, b) bothers to play with the system).

- Endorsements have no direct links to Test Skates. If Sponsors bother to watch Test Skate and skater fails badly, then they might make their own prediction, maybe.....

- Russia at Test Skates can decide to fund 7... like past season. We need to remember, they allow Jr. transferring to Sr. to be funded as well. Each year is different. Last year was Trus, Shcher, Kost, Zagi, Tuktik, Meda, Samo. and this year it maybe Trus, Shcher, Kost, Zagi, Tuktik, Meda (if all confirm competing) and any of Jr. girls if they/coaches decide they will move to Seniors: Valieeva, Sinitsyna, Tarakanova. And then the top 3 Juniors from these or others that i did not mention: Usach, Khrom, Akatieva, Berestovskaya, Petrosyan, etc..

Russian Feds are not limited by how many they can fund (within reason)... they can easily justify to Ministry of Sports funding between 6 to 12 ladies (jr. and sr.)

Is Zagitova coming back?

Даниил Глейхенгауз: «Скоро узнаете про музыку к новым программам Алины Загитовой»

Даниил Глейхенгауз , хореограф группы Этери Тутберидзе , прокомментировал изменение стоимости прыжков в фигурном катании, а также рассказал о музыке к новым программами Алины Загитовой .

www.sports.ru

Judge for your self, Gleikh's words, verbatim...
Про музыку к новым программам Алины скоро узнаете. Мы сначала должны послушать музыку на льду, прежде чем объявлять ее, а сейчас это невозможно»

(You) will soon learn about the music for Alina's new programmes (pl). (or: About the music for the new programmes of Alina you will soon learn). We first must listed to the music how it works on ice, before announcing it, but at present it is not possible.

imo: they have choreo, generics; they have themes and picked the music, but need to see how it works on ice (if it works on ice, before making it official. i recall Gleikh and Alina announcing they are working on 1 new programme - Notre-Dame de Paris. What i am not sure of is if these are show or competition programmes. I am hoping that these are pro-show-programmes (make money girl!), but inclined to think these are for a competition.