From Russia with love [#28]: Autumn to Winter 2017

It is WE the fans that are paying for those OG. The IOC should NOT forget that. But they have for a very long time.
 
Vash01 said:
It is still their moral duty to explain why some athletes were invited and others were not, unless there is a clear cut case of doping which is already proven and published. Not giving an explanation should not be acceptable under any circumstances. Athletes may not have a legal right over the IOC (which is abusing its power, IMO) but from purely humanitarian perspective they need to know why they are not allowed to participate. I dont know if arbitration is an option at this point.
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Yes it is their moral duty to explain it to those who need to know, the athletes and probably their governing body. That does not mean the general public has any moral right to know or to then pass judgment based on their "expert knowledge"
 
Vash01 said:
It is still their moral duty to explain why some athletes were invited and others were not, unless there is a clear cut case of doping which is already proven and published. Not giving an explanation should not be acceptable under any circumstances. Athletes may not have a legal right over the IOC (which is abusing its power, IMO) but from purely humanitarian perspective they need to know why they are not allowed to participate. I dont know if arbitration is an option at this point.
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As has been explained repeatedly, there will not be any explanation from the IOC until the formal announcement of who is invited from Russia on 28th January. The information about Stolbova & Bukin has come from leaks within Russia. If there's no further information from the IOC after their deadline, carry on complaining, but for now can you all chill.
 
morqet said:
As has been explained repeatedly, there will not be any explanation from the IOC until the formal announcement of who is invited from Russia on 28th January. The information about Stolbova & Bukin has come from leaks within Russia. If there's no further information from the IOC after their deadline, carry on complaining, but for now can you all chill.
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Heck the further information will just create a whole new set of complaints. The "conspiracy" theory group has already made up their mind, they just want more ammunition for their rants.
 
Vash01 said:
It is still their moral duty to explain why some athletes were invited and others were not, unless there is a clear cut case of doping which is already proven and published. Not giving an explanation should not be acceptable under any circumstances. Athletes may not have a legal right over the IOC (which is abusing its power, IMO) but from purely humanitarian perspective they need to know why they are not allowed to participate. I dont know if arbitration is an option at this point.
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It would be good if they would explain why there not inviting some athletes but the IOC may be not able to explain all the decisions because of privacy protections for the athletes. I don't think we'll ever know why certain athletes aren't going to receive invites, and other reason may come out over time as the investigation into the doping scheme continues. The IOC has the right to invite whomever they wish to the Olympics, that is there power. They decide which sports are included, what countries, and ultimately what athletes are invited.
 
skatingguy said:
It would be good if they would explain why there not inviting some athletes but the IOC may be not able to explain all the decisions because of privacy protections for the athletes. I don't think we'll ever know why certain athletes aren't going to receive invites, and other reason may come out over time as the investigation into the doping scheme continues. The IOC has the right to invite whomever they wish to the Olympics, that is there power. They decide which sports are included, what countries, and ultimately what athletes are invited.
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Disagree! The IOC can't do it without reasons in this case.! The IOC is not a GOD. Plus the decisions are always made after the vote of the member states.
 
lala said:
Disagree! The IOC can't do it without reasons in this case.! The IOC is not a GOD. Plus the decisions are always made after the vote of the member states.
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I agree with you but I don't understand the last sentence in your post. Do all the members vote on who should be allowed? How many nations are on this membership panel? Do you feel that perhaps the AiOC president made the decision without taking a vote? I am confused.
 
Carolla5501 said:
Heck the further information will just create a whole new set of complaints. The "conspiracy" theory group has already made up their mind, they just want more ammunition for their rants
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Actually it is possible not to believe in a conspiracy theory and still want some kind of explanation and feel resentful if no explanation is given. It is reasonable to assume that if there was any conspiracy, other athletes would be targeted and not those who are currently not Russia's No. 1 in their disciplines. And still I agree that we have a right to know the reason for each specific ban. There is no need to go into detail - I believe some details may be confidential. But a general explanation such as 'administrative violation' or 'sample processing violation by a laboratory' would be very welcome.
 
I would like to know if athletes are allowed to question or challenge those reasons- whatever they may be. What if there was an error in the data or information? Is there a provision for them to get a clarification from the IOC?

I don't remember if Bobrova and Soloviev were allowed to challenge the ban due to WADA's decisions. Obviously they didn't win if there was a challenge. By the time they were cleared it was too late, but at least they knew the reason for the ban. The IIC needs to be more transparent.
 
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Well it is a shame: S/B were the one dance team that the US commentators talked about throughout the season because they felt they had really improved and were world podium ready and you could see how much the audience enjoyed them at Europeans. I just cannot imagine any ice skater doping. This isn't Lance and his fellow bikers. This is freaking figure skating for chrissakes. I hope there is a way to appeal.
 
Vash01 said:
I agree with you but I don't understand the last sentence in your post. Do all the members vote on who should be allowed? How many nations are on this membership panel? Do you feel that perhaps the AiOC president made the decision without taking a vote? I am confused.
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Oh, no I was misunderstood. I responsed to this statement: "They decide which sports are included, what countries,," Yes, they have ritght to do that but that's a decision of the member states. But in this case probably one official's decision who are invited thus the official has to be justified...
 
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Yes it is their moral duty to explain it to those who need to know, the athletes and probably their governing body.
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• Russian athletes will be invited to join the OAR team based on a process overseen by a four-person group created by the IOC. It will be chaired by Valerie Fourneyron, France’s former minister of sports and the head of the International Testing Authority, a group created by the World Anti-Doping Agency earlier this year. Fourneyron, 58, is a doctor by trade.

• The other members of the panel are IOC medical and scientific director Richard Budgett, who will represent the IOC, and members yet to be appointed by WADA and by SportAccord’s Drug-Free Sport Unit. Budgett, 58, also a doctor by trade, was a gold medal-winning rower for Great Britain at the 1984 Olympics (the Games, coincidentally, that were boycotted by the Soviet Union and other aligned nations).

• The panel will only consider Russian athletes who have met the qualifying competition standards for their sport.

• Qualified athletes must pass a three-pronged test of their compliance with international doping standards: they can’t have been previously penalized or banned for doping; they must have taken part in and passed all tests recommended by the IOC’s Pre-Games Testing Task Force; and they must submit to and pass any additional tests required by the new panel.

• The Pre-Games Testing Task Force was created to pay special attention to certain athletes ahead of Pyeongchang in addition to normal drug testing carried out by countries and sport federations. This task force was particularly interested in Russian athletes because of the McLaren Report findings and the IOC’s own investigations. Targeted athletes also came from other nations and sports with questionable doping histories, athletes in the top 20 in the world in their sports, and athletes who had seen recent performance spikes.

• The IOC will also compile an invitation list for support staff for the OAR team. No one in a leadership position from Russia’s team in Sochi and no coach or doctor previously sanctioned for an anti-doping offence will be invited. The IOC, though, has pledged to provide the same level of technical support the athletes would have received from their own national Olympic committee.
 
Cachoo said:
Well it is a shame: S/B were the one dance team that the US commentators talked about throughout the season because they felt they had really improved and were world podium ready and you could see how much the audience enjoyed them at Europeans. I just cannot imagine any ice skater doping. This isn't Lance and his fellow bikers. This is freaking figure skating for chrissakes. I hope there is a way to appeal.
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Actually I can imagine any athlete doping. Ice Skaters don't come with some "halo" that says they won't take advantage to get ahead, increase stamina etc... After Lance's was a lot about stamina..... How often have we said 'skater is running out of energy at the end of a program", what if something would help? Would they be tempted? Maybe?
 
Vash01 said:
Only Sochi. That's what we are talking about.
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That’s confusing! Let me get this straight. So you are insisting that MarieM uses Russian spelling of Russian city Sochi rather than her native language transliteration. But you use your language (English) for Czech city Praha (you use English version Prague). You also use English version (Moscow) rather that Russian version - Moskva. Isn’t that a double standard? Why should someone else be corrected to use the native version rather than their own language transliteration, but you admit yourself that you use English versions for other cities?
 
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BittyBug said:
Nothing. But something may have happened in Turin. :sekret: ;)
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I did not know that people had problems with that situation :). I always heard Turin before the games but in the promos and boards, it said TORINO, that was not the Italians' idea?
 
I was getting optimist about this situation with Bukin but if it was a mistake I think they would say it already. I guess they are trying to find the best way to justify the situation, or maybe even worse, they are not interested in the slightest clarify the doubts. I have not followed so many Olympics but this Olympic season feels bad, something has gone wrong all season.
 
lala said:
Disagree! The IOC can't do it without reasons in this case.! The IOC is not a GOD. Plus the decisions are always made after the vote of the member states.
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No, the IOC doesn't have member states. The IOC has members, but not every country with an Olympic Committee is represented at the IOC. It's not like the UN. The IOC is a club, and you have to be invited to join, though there are a small number of members who are elected by the athletes, and that is a relatively recent addition to the IOC.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_members_of_the_International_Olympic_Committee
The Olympics is their party and they make the decisions.
 
The IOC is dependent on good will among the general public, governments, sponsors, and media companies so it is subject to outside pressure.
 
chapis said:
I did not know that people had problems with that situation :). I always heard Turin before the games but in the promos and boards, it said TORINO, that was not the Italians' idea?
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Chapis, I'm sorry if my joke did not translate. I was just playing with words. :)
 
skatingguy said:
No, the IOC doesn't have member states. The IOC has members, but not every country with an Olympic Committee is represented at the IOC. It's not like the UN. The IOC is a club, and you have to be invited to join, though there are a small number of members who are elected by the athletes, and that is a relatively recent addition to the IOC.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_members_of_the_International_Olympic_Committee
The Olympics is their party and they make the decisions.
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The members are the representative of nations. They are sent by the National Olympic Committees. They are elected by the National Olympic Committee members
 
I am not happy with Stolbova, Bukin situation at all, and we're yet to see if this is an administrative error, a ploy, or has valid reason.

But Alexei Yagudin is acting like a jerk, and not helping the situation, but making rude proclamations against IOC and WADA, given he is a public figure and his messages are read in figure skating world. He was a jerk at times in 2002 in SLC and after, and then on an Averbuch skating tour in Israel, then some more, but such behavior affected only him, and now it's a serious public issue which affects others... His recent instagram.. and he places (IDIOT) it next to Bukin's foto..... (he just ruined all my pride in him for medal in 2002 and 2 great programmes and his good work as a commentator on skating shows, don't know who will hire him now... even in Russia..)

https://www.instagram.com/p/BeTIvqBh7AH/?hl=en&taken-by=alexei.yagudin
“What the F…! no other words! This is total lawlessness! Excuse my language but this is total MIND-F..K! And the westerners/foreigners are yet claiming that all sport is outside of politics! IOC, WADA and all who are making such decisions are SCUM, FILTH who are ruining the lives of clean athletes, of those who sacrificed their lives and put their souls into the sport. This news break my heart! ..Xxxxxxx ..
 
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