Finlandia Trophy 2025 Rhythm Dance "I Really, Really, Really Wanna Zingas"

[Braulio]

Shawn Rettstatt is his usual shameless political buffoon. He better not be anywhere near Milano in 2026.

Don´t tempt destiny

Imagine him as the technical specialist for ice dance and Shin Amano for the men in Milano

 

[jenny12]

Loved Zingas/Kolesnik!

I’m loving them this season. She’s consistently improved and I think I’m a little in love with him

 

[marbri]

I always liked Asher but spelling fakakta right is such a bonus.

Look, if the dancers themselves are saying the calling is insane, I believe them. There has and always will be politik in dance, and Cizeron’s return has scrambled the hierarchy. (Nice of the Shibs to be mediocre enough not to impact any of the top teams.)

On top of which, Mark Hanretty seems an honest man and certainly more knowledgeable than other commentators, and you can hear his surprise at some of the shenanigans going back to Skate for Milano.

I just found myself chuckling every time Mark complimented a team for really making sure they execute those turns for the panel only to see up on the screen B or L1

 

[Tinycities]

I would absolutely love for someone to do a slowed down breakdown of each teams pattern or midline like that one user did for cpom last week.

Firstly, I’d learn a lot, but I just want to see what the tech panel is seeing.

 

[Wyliefan]

I think Piper put it well. And it's kind of bonkers for Rettstatt to be so loosey-goosey about patterns and themes and so strict about calling. No wonder the skaters get confused.

But I guess I have some very interesting facial expressions to look forward to when I watch this tonight!

 

[Karen-W]

Explanation from Filip Taschler about their music issue today -

https://twitter.com/x/status/1992000373234778542

That is more than a little insane that the organizers couldn't get their music right at all despite the Taschlers doing everything within their power to ensure the correct music was played.

 

[Spikefan]

That explains why they were so heated at the end towards whoever that person was. They had just been through it with them that morning.

Edited to add: I love how Maurizio handled it. You can tell he’s been through the most drama and deals with it well now. Can he win PCOTY again this year?

 

[marbri]

Explanation from Filip Taschler about their music issue today -

https://twitter.com/x/status/1992000373234778542

That is more than a little insane that the organizers couldn't get their music right at all despite the Taschlers doing everything within their power to ensure the correct music was played.

Was there an earlier competition in July in Finland where they got the old version?

 

[Karen-W]

Was there an earlier competition in July in Finland where they got the old version?

No. This is the first competition hosted by Finland this season.

 

[skateycat]

I would absolutely love for someone to do a slowed down breakdown of each teams pattern or midline like that one user did for cpom last week.

Firstly, I’d learn a lot, but I just want to see what the tech panel is seeing.

And I want to see what the tech panel is smoking

 

[peibeck]

You know they will score that unless some catastrophe. I don´t see Dune beating Igor and his politicks and of course Zingas / Kolesnik have been doing well

Igor has more political power right now than IAM?

The top two are decided. The scores are close for the last podium spot, so a mistake or more whack-a-doo calling and who knows???

 

[Karen-W]

Igor has more political power right now than IAM?

The top two are decided. The scores are close for the last podium spot, so a mistake or more whack-a-doo calling and who knows???

There is a smaller gap between FBCiz in 1st and ZingKol in 3rd (1.38 points) than there is between ZingKol in 3rd and SmaDie in 4th (2.44 points). I'd say that there is absolutely nothing decided yet.

 

[MacMadame]

It looks like any of the top 3 could finish in any order on the podium. I suppose if a team implodes, SamDie could get on the podium instead of one of them. And it's been crazy this year, so maybe someone will biff the twizzles or a lift won't go up so it could happen.

Btw, it's Dieck. Not Dirk and not Dick. Or any of the many other variations I've been seeing.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Spellcheck thinks otherwise.

 

[Alilou]

Is there a link to the RD presser?

 

[Lanie]

Explanation from Filip Taschler about their music issue today -

https://twitter.com/x/status/1992000373234778542

That is more than a little insane that the organizers couldn't get their music right at all despite the Taschlers doing everything within their power to ensure the correct music was played.

that's totally unacceptable of who was handling the music, I've done music before at GP practices and we checked and double and triple checked, asked the skaters about their music and getting current music cuts to us if things weren't correct, ran around to make sure we got the correct cuts if we learned we needed an update and the old music deleted from the playlist, how could that have happened?!

 

[Kateri]

The press conference for the RD: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSjY0PZnu9w

I don't think I've ever seen such a non-PR press conf, with both athletes and press just laying into the tech panel! Mark Hanretty can be heard prodding the athletes for some especially good reactions, around 7 minutes in.

 

[Bunny Hop]

So even with the advantage of watching on replay having seen the scores, read the comments here, and having the protocols in front of me while watching, I am still WTF about some of the calling here.

Normally I am the one looking at the protocols to figure out why the panel called something a certain way, and (usually) understanding why even if I don't personally agree. Here....no. The panel need to be drug tested.

Really struggling not to feel that the call on Fournier-Beaudry/Cizeron's choreo sequence was in some way deliberate and to make some sort of point (what point, I don't know). And that's from someone who doesn't think there is nearly as much conspiring going on as others think.

And Piper Gilles should be rightly peeved about the Base level call on the twizzles. No, they weren't great and there were breaks, per the commentary, but even mid-level teams normally get away with a lot worse.

Taschlers - Given his explanation as to the lengths they went through to make sure the music was correct, that music error is unforgivable and someone should be removed from duty for that error. No wonder they were furious.

On a positive note, thanks to Mark Hanretty for calling out the different steps and explaining technical elements to the viewers. I really appreciate it. He was also clearly baffled by some of the scores.

 

[tony]

The press conference for the RD: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSjY0PZnu9w

I don't think I've ever seen such a non-PR press conf, with both athletes and press just laying into the tech panel! Mark Hanretty can be heard prodding the athletes for some especially good reactions, around 7 minutes in.

This is amazing.

 

[Skaterbob]

So even with the advantage of watching on replay having seen the scores, read the comments here, and having the protocols in front of me while watching, I am still WTF about some of the calling here.

Normally I am the one looking at the protocols to figure out why the panel called something a certain way, and (usually) understanding why even if I don't personally agree. Here....no. The panel need to be drug tested.

Really struggling not to feel that the call on Fournier-Beaudry/Cizeron's choreo sequence was in some way deliberate and to make some sort of point (what point, I don't know). And that's from someone who doesn't think there is nearly as much conspiring going on as others think.

And Piper Gilles should be rightly peeved about the Base level call on the twizzles. No, they weren't great and there were breaks, per the commentary, but even mid-level teams normally get away with a lot worse.

Taschlers - Given his explanation as to the lengths they went through to make sure the music was correct, that music error is unforgivable and someone should be removed from duty for that error. No wonder they were furious.

On a positive note, thanks to Mark Hanretty for calling out the different steps and explaining technical elements to the viewers. I really appreciate it. He was also clearly baffled by some of the scores.

"but even mid-level teams normally get away with a lot worse." I mean is that really how we want sport judged? That they should get away with something because others have gotten away with it in other competitions by a different caller? Piper seemed all over the place on the twizzle but feel free for the rulebook memorizers to point out why it shouldn't have been called the way it was.

 

[Karen-W]

Give me a break, folks. Go back and re-watch the opening choreo section. Guillaume was within 2m of the boards as he looped behind Laurence. It's especially glaring and obvious when compared to how the executed the same choreo section at the start of their GPdF RD. The tech panel was made the correct call.

 

[Skaterbob]

Give me a break, folks. Go back and re-watch the opening choreo section. Guillaume was within 2m of the boards as he looped behind Laurence. It's especially glaring and obvious when compared to how the executed the same choreo section at the start of their GPdF RD. The tech panel was made the correct call.

They did seem to start way closer to the boards than in France or the rink is also much narrower.

 

[Karen-W]

They did seem to start way closer to the boards than in France or the rink is also much narrower.

From the respective GP announcements - yes, Helsinki Ice Hall is narrower than IceParc in Angers. Either way, that's something they should be capable of adjusting for during practices.

Place
ICEPARC
5 avenue de la constitution, 49100 Angers
(an indoor ice-rink with the ice surface of 60 x 30 m, air-conditioned and heated)

Place
Helsinki Ice Hall
Nordenskiöldinkatu 11-13, 00250 Helsinki
(an indoor ice-rink with the ice surface of 60 x 27.7 m, air-conditioned and heated)

 

[Bunny Hop]

"but even mid-level teams normally get away with a lot worse." I mean is that really how we want sport judged? That they should get away with something because others have gotten away with it in other competitions by a different caller? Piper seemed all over the place on the twizzle but feel free for the rulebook memorizers to point out why it shouldn't have been called the way it was.

I mean I completely agree, but they need to call consistently and without bias. All the panels should be applying the rules in the same way. If there's leeway (and I don't necessarily agree there should be) then that also needs to be codified in the rules not at the whim of whoever is on the panel.

 

[Private Citizen]

I mean I completely agree, but they need to call consistently and without bias. All the panels should be applying the rules in the same way. If there's leeway (and I don't necessarily agree there should be) then that also needs to be codified in the rules not at the whim of whoever is on the panel.

The problem for me is that the criteria are vague and subject to interpretation. You can argue almost anything. I believe ice dance results are directionally right, but within segments of good - great - exceptional it's very hard to get to clear and consistent outcomes. You'll see fierce debate here, e.g., on how to call Madison Chock's twizzles and whether to apply a two-level penalty based on their not moving sufficiently across the ice. I'm not sure of any way to resolve this clearly and consistently. At least not without AI.

I do think skaters should get the benefit of the doubt. Calling F-B&C's choreographic steps was outrageous. Then again, I think the element is vague (and stupid), and the rules are vague (and also stupid). You're effectively banning choreo steps outside of this. Or requiring that the first bit of choreography will be designated as the steps and all others ignored? I suppose we should be grateful that the panel didn't call an additional element and penalize them for the second one . Again, I don't like this team at all, so I'm relatively unbiased here.

Gilles makes no coherent point and seems to have sour grapes. If the rules haven't been applied in the past, that doesn't mean that they shouldn't be applied in the present or the future. No rulebook junkie has explained why the call is wrong. And, again, I suspect like Chock's twizzles, there is sufficient grey area to justify two or more calls.

 

[MacMadame]

Gilles makes no coherent point and seems to have sour grapes. If the rules haven't been applied in the past, that doesn't mean that they shouldn't be applied in the present or the future. No rulebook junkie has explained why the call is wrong.

Several rulebook junkies seemed to think they should have been called Level 1 and not B.

I think what Piper was trying to say is similar to what was said here. If a team is getting so many low levels, how can their PCS be so high? Skating skills of 9+ for the top two teams but they can't skate well enough to get the levels?

Either they are putting high-quality elements and skating skills on the ice or they aren't.

 

[Skaterbob]

Several rulebook junkies seemed to think they should have been called Level 1 and not B.

I think what Piper was trying to say is similar to what was said here. If a team is getting so many low levels, how can their PCS be so high? Skating skills of 9+ for the top two teams but they can't skate well enough to get the levels?

Either they are putting high-quality elements and skating skills on the ice or they aren't.

I'm not sure Piper wants to bark up that tree and fall behind the Lithuania team lol

 

[Private Citizen]

Several rulebook junkies seemed to think they should have been called Level 1 and not B.

Based on what? If I missed a discussion about the criteria for B, the criteria for L1, and why these are clearly L1 instead of B, happy for someone to point me to it .

I think what Piper was trying to say is similar to what was said here. If a team is getting so many low levels, how can their PCS be so high? Skating skills of 9+ for the top two teams but they can't skate well enough to get the levels?

I don't agree with this argument or think it makes sense. In all disciplines, there are skaters who can't do certain elements well but get high PCS. Michelle Kwan had a terrible layback. Kazakova and Dmitriev had a terrible death spiral. Does that mean they shouldn't get high PCS? Maybe this year's pattern sequence is the equivalent of a BO death spiral, where even otherwise good teams struggle.

Either they are putting high-quality elements and skating skills on the ice or they aren't.

Or maybe the criteria for the elements measure minutiae -- which would be my argument.

 

[VGThuy]

I think Piper has a point but so do the counter arguments. Like to perform the pattern dances right to get high levels, you really need to be in control over the blade and be precise, which requires amazing skating skills. However, SS in the PCS category encompasses so much more than judging them on individual elements and is meant to be a holistic assessment.

It’s like a Trixie Schuba and Janet Lynn thing. Schuba has the master of the school figures, the most minute and precise test of a figure skater where stability and control (and true deep carvings) served her well and she became known as the best school figures skater. However, when it came to free skating, most people with eyes and objectivity would have given Janet Lynn way higher SS marks in PCS with the way she effortlessly flew across the ice and did so many turns and steps with such ease and power while Schuba looked laborious and slow in comparison. Lynn inspired the entire Japanese skating skills philosophy that they’re celebrated for today but her school figures always prevented her from winning international competitions (except for 1973 Worlds where the Short Program was the culprit ironically since the SP was essentially invented for her).

 

[MacMadame]

I don't agree with this argument or think it makes sense. In all disciplines, there are skaters who can't do certain elements well but get high PCS. Michelle Kwan had a terrible layback. Kazakova and Dmitriev had a terrible death spiral. Does that mean they shouldn't get high PCS? Maybe this year's pattern sequence is the equivalent of a BO death spiral, where even otherwise good teams struggle.

It wasn't one element. It was every element across the board for every team. The calling was crazy and you know it.