Eric Radford and Vanessa James to compete in pairs together for Canada

[mackiecat]

What it boils down to in my mind is that Eric wasn’t up front with Meagan about the whole thing.

I would be more supportive of him is he was.

The CBC article said he invited Vanessa to try out for fun and the future possibilities of show skating just a few weeks after Battle of the Blades.

But he didn’t inform Meagan until months after that when Vanessa was released from France.

Last time I checked you didn’t need a release to perform in shows together so it’s a bit BS that he is saying he couldn’t inform Meagan because he didn’t know this partnership was on track until Va Essa was released.

I’m taking most of what they are saying with a huge grain of salt but both are agreeing with the point on which Meagan was informed.

Eric has a right to skate with whoever he wants but Meagan deserved a discussion much earlier than when she got one. It’s totally disrespectful from Eric.

Eric and Vanessa were talking about doing shows in Europe. Vanessa had the contacts. Remember Megan moved a province away from Eric and has a toddler. Even if they were invited, how in earth would Megan and Eric train when they live 6 hours apart and how would she manage touring Europe with a toddler especially in CoViD times

 

[Coco]

Bev Smith's take on the situation: The Muddy Waters of a Comeback

That's just it - if Eric would have had the guts to have one difficult conversation with Meagan, so much of this drama could have been avoided. Huge shame.

Well, if Meagan hadn't dramatically posted on social media, there wouldn't have been any drama. Who knows if she said things online that she didn't say directly to her sister in law or Eric.

There are no shining stars here.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Bev Smith's take on the situation: The Muddy Waters of a Comeback

That's just it - if Eric would have had the guts to have one difficult conversation with Meagan, so much of this drama could have been avoided. Huge shame.

But Eric said he did have the conversation with her and wished him the best of luck. I guess it’s just who do you want to believe

 

[skategal]

Eric and Vanessa were talking about doing shows in Europe. Vanessa had the contacts. Remember Megan moved a province away from Eric and has a toddler. Even if they were invited, how in earth would Megan and Eric train when they live 6 hours apart and how would she manage touring Europe with a toddler especially in ********* times

Toddlers are very portable. She could arrange to bring her along.

Or you know she could leave the child with her father. It doesn’t always have to be the mom as the primary caregiver.

Men leave and go to work in far away places all the time and manage it without pushback from society.

Re: training

Toronto and Montreal aren’t that far apart. They could take turns going back and forth to each other’s location to train if they wanted to. You don’t have to be on tip top shape to do shows.

 

[kwanette]

She's not denouncing them. She's acknowledging that some people have a hard time supporting the partnership given the discourse regarding Vanessa.

Personally I think a lot of people online are frustrated that Cipres got away with the sexual abuse of a child, and the coaching team hasn't paid much of a price for covering it up, and they're taking it out on Vanessa - who's more easily accessible, though vastly less responsible.

She was excited for the new team until folks pointed out things to her? Alrighty then..

 

[thvu]

I shouldn't be surprised with the assumptions people are running with. Duhamel said he didn't ask her if she wanted to still compete. He didn't owe her that. There's a reason she presented the information this way, so that people would make assumptions to put herself in the best light and Eric in the worst.

It seems to me that Eric did have a conversation with Meghan, but didn't ask her if she wanted to make a comeback with him. That seems to be central to her feelings of "betrayal," that he let her know she was being dumped for someone else. I don't see what's wrong with that.

They can both be telling the truth about what transpired, so it all really comes down to whether or not you believe Duhamel was owed a chance to comeback to competition with Radford, which IMO she was not.

 

[Judy]

Toddlers are very portable. She could arrange to bring her along.

Or you know she could leave the child with her father. It doesn’t always have to be the mom as the primary caregiver.

Men leave and go to work in far away places all the time and manage it without pushback from society.

Re: training

Toronto and Montreal aren’t that far apart. They could take turns going back and forth to each other’s location to train if they wanted to. You don’t have to be on tip top shape to do shows.

Well I am sure he could have come to her and stayed there. At the end of the day it is for all of them to work out.

Personally I don’t think anyone would enjoy the feeling of the doing it behind your back thing. Especially if a family member was involved. I know I would be upset if one of my family members did something behind my back. It is a very understandable reaction no matter who is right or wrong etc.

 

[Vagabond]

I shouldn't be surprised with the assumptions people are running with.

People are also running with a lot of assumptions about Vanessa James, even after this post:

I have been very critical of Vanessa's behavior but you can't judge her unless you know the full story. I hope that she gets to tell her side of the story some day.

What people may not realize is that Vanessa moved to Paris to a skating club where sexual abuse and all other forms of abuse were common in that toxic culture. She was coached by Jean-Rolland Racle, a sexual predator. The club director Gilles Beyer (he was moved to different functions but was always around) was a rapist and best friend of Didier. Vanessa's French citizenship was expedited due to Didier's political connections and you can believe that he would remind her of everything he did for her. So many French skaters came forward a year ago to describe the horrible abuse that was going on at that time. That environnement was pure hell for a lady skater. My friends that had no chance but to go to Paris to succeed in skating are still traumatized years later. They were all told to shut up in that culture ruled by fear.

When Vanessa was paired with Cipres, you could tell that an explosive situation was going on. They barely improved when they trained in Paris. Cipres is a narcistic ass to deal with on a daily basis . Vanessa does have a strong personality and they would have huge fights and considered quitting . She is a pair girl who is very outspoken and smart. Someone else would have been eaten alive. I have no doubt that she was in survival mode for years and still is in many ways.

Being in an abusive environment and a relationship with an abusive person can affect a person tremendously. (James and Ciprès were not only a pair but also, for a while, a couple.) This piece touches on some of these effects.

It may seem clear to those on the outside what Vanessa James should have done and should be doing. But we aren't walking in her shoes. She is.

 

[skategal]

I shouldn't be surprised with the assumptions people are running with. Duhamel said he didn't ask her if she wanted to still compete. He didn't owe her that. There's a reason she presented the information this way, so that people would make assumptions to put herself in the best light and Eric in the worst.

It seems to me that Eric did have a conversation with Meghan, but didn't ask her if she wanted to make a comeback with him. That seems to be central to her feelings of "betrayal," that he let her know she was being dumped for someone else. I don't see what's wrong with that.

They can both be telling the truth about what transpired, so it all really comes down to whether or not you believe Duhamel was owed a chance to comeback to competition with Radford, which IMO she was not.

It comes down to whether she was owed a conversation up front about what his intentions were.

He is under no obligation to compete with Meagan again or ask her to comeback.

But he did owe her the truth up front and earlier than she got it. So at least she could prepare and seek other opportunities to make money.

 

[tony]

It may seem clear to those on the outside what Vanessa James should have done and should be doing. But we aren't walking in her shoes. She is.

This is another thing that drives me crazy. People don't all cope with things in the same way. Some are ready to tell all via Instagram story about abuse and then be torn to shreds by people on FSU who don't 'get' that method of delivery (see Sarah Feng regarding Nyman details). Some (well, one) FSU posters ripped Ashley Wagner to shreds for reporting her own story of abuse way after the fact, saying it's not courageous.

Some people feel like it is their place to be activists for what has happened, and others don't want anything to do with situations that have involved them. The pathetic Twitter generation of skating fandom, who pretend to be activists for every last thing, should be the first to understand that not everyone is going to react in the same way. Yet what have we seen? Lists of people who shared memories of John Coughlin for example. Bratty teens saying 'I hope [x skater] dies'. And so on. All these wannabe-'I'm doing everything right for the world'-types should be the first to realize that not everyone is going to come to terms with things so quickly and/or be cheerleaders like they are, from the comfort of their keyboards and stupid ass user names.

 

[Coco]

And what did she owe him before she gathered her blogger friends, stoked fires online and put him, and Vanessa, on blast?

 

[tony]

And what did she owe him before she gathered her blogger friends, stoked fires online and put him, and Vanessa, on blast?

Here you go with the assuming.

 

[Viscaro]

What I am very annoyed in the criticism of Vanessa (note that Radford is also accused of being an "enabler" for a friendship with another skater that killed himself after abuse revelations), is that this is the same old "a man does something disgusting ? Blame his mother his partner his sister his daughter his female friends the friends of his female friends. Don't forget, being feminist means BLAME THE WOMEN. And if you don't, you are an enabler too !!"

This. happens. every. time. And sometimes I fall for it too, it's true I have higher expectations of women regarding reaction to sexual abuse - I admit I was disappointed with Péchalat.

The reddit figure skating sub is wild with this stuff at the moment, which surprises me - I thought they were a lot of Canadians on this sub and that they would be happy with a Radford comeback. And this looks like a great and fun partnership.

 

[skategal]

And what did she owe him before she gathered her blogger friends, stoked fires online and put him, and Vanessa, on blast?

I’ve never defended her actions either.

But I can understand the hurt behind them and wanting to lash out.

 

[MsZem]

All these wannabe-'I'm doing everything right for the world'-types should be the first to realize that not everyone is going to come to terms with things so quickly and/or be cheerleaders like they are, from the comfort of their keyboards and stupid ass user names.

This is so true. People always want to believe they'd do the right thing and act with integrity and courage no matter the circumstances. But it's not what happens in real life, because people, and circumstances, are messy and complicated.

I'd like to see how well some of these people would have done were they in Vanessa James's skates, with a decade of work and sacrifice just gone, because her partner decided to send dick pics to a child.

 

[Wyliefan]

What I am very annoyed in the criticism of Vanessa (note that Radford is also accused of being an "enabler" for a friendship with another skater that killed himself after abuse revelations), is that this is the same old "a man does something disgusting ? Blame his mother his partner his sister his daughter his female friends the friends of his female friends. Don't forget, being feminist means BLAME THE WOMEN. And if you don't, you are an enabler too !!"

Who on this board is saying "Blame Vanessa for Morgan's abusive act"? Who? Point me to one post that says that. Saying that she should dissociate herself from him is a very different thing from blaming her.

 

[SkateFanBerlin]

Bev Smith's take on the situation: The Muddy Waters of a Comeback

That's just it - if Eric would have had the guts to have one difficult conversation with Meagan, so much of this drama could have been avoided. Huge shame.

Don't know Meaghan, but maybe she's proved difficult in the past. When my partner is not so open with me it's usually because I've reacted inappropriately in the past.

 

[Sylvia]

Off-topic PSA: Vanessa James taped a solo piece while in Canada that On Ice Perspectives' Jordan Cowan has edited with Starr Andrews' program that he recently filmed at Sky Rink in NYC and their joint performance will debut tonight:

Starr Andrews and Vanessa James to Pay Tribute at Figure Skating in Harlem’s Champions in Life Virtual Benefit Gala - U.S. Figure Skating Fan Zone

Figure Skating in Harlem's Champions in Life Virtual Benefit Gala will showcase a special performance by Starr Andrews and French pairs skater Vanessa James on April

usfigureskatingfanzone.com

"Without Mabel and Atoy, [figure skating] would not be the same," Andrews said. "Historically there has not been a lot of representation of BIPOC skaters, but the FSH community is bringing awareness to that."
"While Mabel was never able to compete, she paved the way for Black skaters like Starr, myself and others," James said. "I remember growing up looking to Derrick as an idol in skating because he looked just like me and [because he] was a very beautiful skater. So, it's nice that it has come full circle and that I'm doing his choreography alongside his star athlete."

"Black Lives Matter isn't just a moment -- it's a movement. We haven't forgotten this is important, needs to be continued, showcased and highlighted," James said. "BIPOC people have been doing a lot of work to be heard and sharing their experiences. But, it's not just up to us to make change. We need our allies to help us move forward and share our experiences."
While allyship can look different for each individual, supporting the Champions in Life Virtual Benefit Gala is one way to support BIPOC youth and learn about the excellence and history of Black figure skaters.
"If [Fairbanks] could see it, I think she would be very proud," James said. "[This performance] is a true representation of what Mabel engrained in her athletes."

Free registration to watch FS in Harlem's virtual gala tonight, starting at 7 pm Eastern: https://www.fshchampions.org/

 

[Frau Muller]

Japan - China's not really in contention for a Team medal.

I forgot. How could I forget Yuma’s crew! (Ha ha)

 

[Viscaro]

Who on this board is saying "Blame Vanessa for Morgan's abusive act"? Who? Point me to one post that says that. Saying that she should dissociate herself from him is a very different thing from blaming her.

I am sorry, I wasn't speaking about this thread specifically - more of the twitter and reddit posts. Although I think a saw a message on this thread saying that Vanessa should had ended her career entirely because she did not react publicly about Ciprès.

But I also think your point is unfair - saying that Vanessa should distance herself assumes she is responsible in some way, to the point that she has to react about it. You are not blaming her as much as other do with this statement, but is not "a very different thing from blaming her" - in fact, it's a diluted version of it.

And the fact that the abuse of Ciprès is a "contagion" that pollutes everyone close to him, to the point that they have to publicly denounce him or be consider enablers themselves, and that this contagion propagates to everyone supporting the people that did not distance themselves explicitly from Ciprès (in this case, I refer to the negative comments that Wagner (who is completely unrelated to any abuse scandal where she would be an abuser) received on her insta as reaction to congratulations of a new team) is a worrying and toxic crowd behavior - one that is prevalent in sects but also unfortunately in militant places (as explained by Contrapoints for example). And often it used to silence people that already suffer from many prejudices - as James, as a black woman, and Radford, as a gay man, do.

 

[Judy]

What I am very annoyed in the criticism of Vanessa (note that Radford is also accused of being an "enabler" for a friendship with another skater that killed himself after abuse revelations), is that this is the same old "a man does something disgusting ? Blame his mother his partner his sister his daughter his female friends the friends of his female friends. Don't forget, being feminist means BLAME THE WOMEN. And if you don't, you are an enabler too !!"

This. happens. every. time. And sometimes I fall for it too, it's true I have higher expectations of women regarding reaction to sexual abuse - I admit I was disappointed with Péchalat.

The reddit figure skating sub is wild with this stuff at the moment, which surprises me - I thought they were a lot of Canadians on this sub and that they would be happy with a Radford comeback. And this looks like a great and fun partnership.

I think it is silly to blame Jones. She didn’t commit the crime. Sometimes your immediate reaction is to defend but he’s the one responsible.

Is he planning to turn himself in? Or we he just never travel to the U.S.? I believe there are restrictions from Europe to the U.S.?

 

[Wyliefan]

But I also think your point is unfair - saying that Vanessa should distance herself assumes she is responsible in some way, to the point that she has to react about it. You are not blaming her as much as other do with this statement, but is not "a very different thing from blaming her" - in fact, it's a diluted version of it.

No, it doesn't. She is not in the least responsible for what Morgan did. She is responsible for whether she signals publicly that she is okay with his child abuse, or that she condemns it.

 

[tony]

No, it doesn't. She is not in the least responsible for what Morgan did. She is responsible for whether she signals publicly that she is okay with his child abuse, or that she condemns it.

Gonna have to disagree. For all the bitching people do these days about what actually is said publicly (and then even that is analyzed to death), James shouldn't have to be forced to acknowledge anything as she didn't do any of it.

And if you don't like it, unfollow her and turn the TV off when she's on. She doesn't owe anyone anything.

 

[MsZem]

Gonna have to disagree. For all the bitching people do these days about what actually is said publicly (and then even that is analyzed to death), James shouldn't have to be forced to acknowledge anything as she didn't do any of it.

And if you don't like it, unfollow her and turn the TV off when she's on. She doesn't owe anyone anything.

It's the equivalent of expecting people to disavow terrorists, as if they're somehow responsible or approving if they do not (not that Cipres's actions go that far). Let's assume James disapproves of sexually harassing and abusing children, like any normal person.

 

[feraina]

What people may not realize is that Vanessa moved to Paris to a skating club where sexual abuse and all other forms of abuse were common in that toxic culture. She was coached by Jean-Rolland Racle, a sexual predator. The club director Gilles Beyer (he was moved to different functions but was always around) was a rapist and best friend of Didier. Vanessa's French citizenship was expedited due to Didier's political connections and you can believe that he would remind her of everything he did for her. So many French skaters came forward a year ago to describe the horrible abuse that was going on at that time. That environnement was pure hell for a lady skater. My friends that had no chance but to go to Paris to succeed in skating are still traumatized years later. They were all told to shut up in that culture ruled by fear.

On this note, I wonder how much of Vanessa's quick release by the French fed had to do with her not stirring up trouble. Given the well known corruption within the French Fed, and how much it protected Ciprès and continues to do so, who's to say someone at the fed didn't tell James that she better watch what she says to the public because she'll never get to skate with anybody else ever again, either inside or outside France, or become a coach or judge or have any other sort of career prospects. Oh, as for her possible career prospects in the U.S., she might have been able to become a pairs coach or something, except the usual route of starting out as an assistant coach with her former coaches would also have been impossible, because, oops, those coaches are pariahs now too (and if she publicly denounced them, then she'll never work with them again when they're reinstated in the future). "I would support James/Radford, if only she stood up more for the victims back then" -- there probably wouldn't be James/Radford at all if she really had made a stand and burned the bridges with the French Fed and others at the time. It's easy enough for people like us, with no real skin in the game or even a real name, to criticize and blame these people for this and that; the cost of a single public tweet going awry, for some of these skaters, whose entire future depends on these social and political connections, is a lot greater.

Let's see. Who were the people with the real power, that enabled what happened with Cipres happened? It wasn't James. It was the coaches, the rink management, the French fed, and maybe the US fed. People like Vanessa are so low down on the totem pole that they had little to no influence at the time, and yet they're now the ones taking all the flak. I do feel for her.

 

[VICK B.]

On the Russian side.. the Russian nationals have at least 5 teams that have a chance of Olympic medals... and the rest of the world just one team from China... This new team maybe be good for Canada

 

[MsZem]

On this note, I wonder how much of Vanessa's quick release by the French fed had to do with her not stirring up trouble. Given the well known corruption within the French Fed, and how much it protected Ciprès and continues to do so, who's to say someone at the fed didn't tell James that she better watch what she says to the public because she'll never get to skate with anybody else ever again, either inside or outside France, or become a coach or judge or have any other sort of career prospects.

I suspect it's more about Nathalie Pechalat being in charge rather than Didier Gailhaguet.

It's been explained before that Pechalat was limited in terms of the investigation she could put into place. She was not limited in terms of doing right by her former teammate.

 

[wickedwitch]

Gonna have to disagree. For all the bitching people do these days about what actually is said publicly (and then even that is analyzed to death), James shouldn't have to be forced to acknowledge anything as she didn't do any of it.

And if you don't like it, unfollow her and turn the TV off when she's on. She doesn't owe anyone anything.

I 100% agree she doesn't have to publically disavow his actions. But I think what some people take issue with his her posting messages of support for Cipres.

 

[skipaway]

Well if they make the Canadian team (highly likely) and are chosen to compete in the Team Event it is not unreasonable of them to think they can medal.

Does Vanessa need Canadian citizenship in order to skate in Beijing? Won’t that take a long time to achieve?

 

[Lemonade20]

I think it is silly to blame Jones. She didn’t commit the crime. Sometimes your immediate reaction is to defend but he’s the one responsible.

Is he planning to turn himself in? Or we he just never travel to the U.S.? I believe there are restrictions from Europe to the U.S.?

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