Canadian Nationals 2021 Cancelled

Sylvia

Wishing I could go back to the Lake Placid JGP
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Roman Sadovsky has uploaded a new video about 2021 Nationals being cancelled and explains why it can't be held virtually or safely.

Main Points:
He was complimentary of Skate Canada and how hard they worked to try to run a safe event
About 85% of skaters would be traveling from hotspots to BC, which is one of the provinces handling the situation slightly better
Hard time finding any training ice (Alberta has no ice, Ontario is high performance only)
Virtual is not possible because for Challenge a lot of skaters had difficulty securing ice and safe bubbles to film
Virtual is not possible because of the time disparity between skaters filming (he mentioned that BC skaters filmed bout 3 weeks after he did)
Skating does not have the money to pull off bubbling like hockey does (heard that NHL spent around 75 million to do it)
Thank you for sharing Sadovsky's video as well as providing a summary. :)
 

Japanfan

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I too had hoped for a virtual event, but understand the decision to cancel and think it is prudent.

Meanwhile, US Nats go ahead while the epidemic worsens and numbers rise. :confused:
 

tony

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I too had hoped for a virtual event, but understand the decision to cancel and think it is prudent.

Meanwhile, US Nats go ahead while the epidemic worsens and numbers rise. :confused:
It's inevitable that this thread is going to turn into a bunch of back-and-forth about this, so here we go.

Skaters in the US are going to the rink every day, they are going to gyms and training facilities. Their families are going to work every day, sometimes traveling often. Cities are not completely shut down, essential workers (by way of things like grocery stores) have been working since day one, etc. Going from A to B via a plane and then sitting in a hotel room poses a bigger threat than any of the above how? We've been over the flight stuff and it's been linked to plenty here how it's very low in terms of risk. USFS has been seemingly diligent in their efforts and procedures that have led to the withdrawal of several teams. Everyone can do their parts and we can hope it runs successfully. But still, I'm waiting for people to actually explain how the numbers going up puts any of them in direct danger by getting to Las Vegas and then literally sitting in a hotel when they aren't training or competing, and how it's throwing them into some big risk when they are training every day as it is.

The reason why the numbers are going up in the USA and Canada is because people are getting much more lax about their behaviors as a whole- whether any of us like it or not. You personally aren't and you've sat at home 24 hours a day since March 2020? Good for you, but many people have not and more people are becoming daring in their actions by the day.

Roman even said in his video that the skaters on the conference call all still wanted Nationals to happen, and they want to train if they can. The situation in Canada is that some rinks are completely shut down at the moment and there are restrictions in place, and it's not helping control their numbers.
 

Japanfan

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skaters in the US are going to the rink every day, they are going to gyms and training facilities. Their families are going to work every day, sometimes traveling often. Cities are not completely shut down, essential workers (by way of things like grocery stores) have been working since day one, etc. Going from A to B via a plane and then sitting in a hotel room poses a bigger threat than any of the above how? We've been over the flight stuff and it's been linked to plenty here how it's very low in terms of risk. USFS has been seemingly diligent in their efforts and procedures that have led to the withdrawal of several teams. Everyone can do their parts and we can hope it runs successfully. But still, I'm waiting for people to actually explain how the numbers going up puts any of them in direct danger by getting to Las Vegas and then literally sitting in a hotel when they aren't training or competing, and how it's throwing them into some big risk when they are training every day as it is.
I think the danger is that someone in the bubble will be an asymptomatic carrier, transmit YKW to someone else, and thereby start community transmission. But that seems obvious. People need to go to work and buy groceries. They don't need to take planes to compete in FS.

The reason why the numbers are going up in the USA and Canada is because people are getting much more lax about their behaviors as a whole- whether any of us like it or not. You personally aren't and you've sat at home 24 hours a day since March 2020? Good for you, but many people have not and more people are becoming daring in their actions by the day.
As you must know, you can't really compare Canada to the US, which SFAIK is the hardest hit country along with Russia. We are doing much better than the US, thanks to a competent federal leader and competent provincial leaders and public health officials. And we are doing better here in British Columbia than the rest of the country, in part because we have a wonderful PHO, the now famous Dr. Bonny Henry.

And perhaps people shouldn't be do all of those things you mention previously. Quebec has instituted a curfew to deal with its current crisis, and it seems Ontario is introducing new restrictions every day.

And yes, I pretty much have sat at home 24/7 since March, excepting for brief shopping trips and taking my job to the park, and several visits with one friend who I would say is in my bubble. However, I can do that because I work at home and don't have many reasons to go out (e.g. helping an elderly family member, delivering meals to neighbors or the homeless).

Roman even said in his video that the skaters on the conference call all still wanted Nationals to happen, and they want to train if they can. The situation in Canada is that some rinks are completely shut down at the moment and there are restrictions in place, and it's not helping control their numbers.

It may in fact be helping to control the numbers.

We knew the numbers were going to go up, and they can be expected to do so in the next three months. The point is to keep those rising numbers as low as possible.

Also, I fear outbreaks results from last week's riot, where so many people gathered close together in a large mass did not wear masks.

And of course at least some of the skaters wanted Nationals to happen, more likely many. Fans wanted them to happen, also.
 
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tony

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I think the danger is that someone in the bubble will be an asymptomatic carrier, transmit YKW to someone else, and thereby start community transmission. But that seems obvious. People need to go to work and buy groceries. They don't need to take planes to compete in FS.
There is that chance of transmission anywhere, but I'm just curious why, if it's like Skate America where they aren't ever in close contact besides zipping past each other on warm-up ice, this suddenly becomes a huge risk and puts so many others at risk? At their home rinks during practice, I'd be willing to bet that they are closer to each other than they will be the entire weekend at Nationals. Are you suggesting all of that should be shut down too, even in Canada? Unless there's a total lockdown with punishment for those who break it, this ideology won't happen.

As you must know, you can't really compare Canada to the US, which SFAIK is the hardest hit country along with Russia. We are doing much better than the US, thanks to a competent federal leader and competent provincial leaders and public health officials. And we are doing better here in British Columbia than the rest of the country, in part because we have a wonderful PHO, the now famous Dr. Bonny Henry.
At some point, everyone is going to need to stop continuing to blame Trump and realize that people on all points of the spectrum are much more lax with their behaviors now. Actually, I'd say many Trump fans have been consistent with not caring, but now that more things have opened in certain parts of the US, you can't continuously blame those evil Republicans for numbers going up when people are traveling, engaging in more get-togethers/parties, etc.

And perhaps people shouldn't be do all of those things you mention previously. Quebec has instituted a curfew to deal with its current crisis, and it seems Ontario is introducing new restrictions every day.
Miami, which typically has a closing time of 5AM, has been on a curfew this entire time. First it was 9PM, then 10PM, and it's been at midnight for a while. Don't hold your breath on curfews doing much of anything. CV doesn't only come out at night.

And yes, I pretty much have sat at home 24/7 since March, excepting for brief shopping trips and taking my job to the park, and several visits with one friend who I would say is in my bubble. However, I can do that because I work at home and don't have many reasons to go out (e.g. helping an elderly family member, delivering meals to neighbors or the homeless).
And like I said, good for you. I pretty much have, as well. I documented how they attempted to get us go to back to class and since one person in my class on the first day ended up testing positive, I had to sit at home for 14 days as a precaution. But if you want to try and insist that A) the majority of people in the USA and/or Canada are sitting at home 24/7 as well or B) it's all the Republicans, I promise you that you are very wrong. Doesn't make them 'right', but think about the people that have to work and for those who live in tourist cities and have worked in the field for so many years with little to no other skills, what do you suggest? And before you say entry-level anything, consider cost of living in such cities.

It may in fact be helping to control the numbers.

We knew the numbers were going to go up, and they can be expected to do so in the next three months. The point is to keep those rising numbers as low as possible.
And why are they rising? Because it's cold? Or because people are becoming more comfortable with their actions and/or getting bored? Consider younger people before you claim that no one is bored-- whether they are right or wrong.
 
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Karen-W

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Also, I fear outbreaks results from last week's riot, where so many people gathered close together in a large mass did not wear masks.
Well, I guess it's a good thing you're in Canada so you have little to fear from outbreaks that might result from last week's riot at the US Capitol. I can't imagine that being on the opposite coast in another country you'll need to worry about an outbreak occurring in your city from people returning after they joined the protest. And especially now that Canadian Nationals have been cancelled, there won't be any US-based skaters traveling to your fair city to increase the danger of an outbreak. That might be the only bright light in the sad news of the cancellation of Canadian Nationals - the rest of us on FSU won't have to read the hand-wringing and worry over the bubble not being tight enough, or skaters not getting enough training time to adequately prepare. It is, of course, offset by the eventual moaning and complaining we're sure to hear about how unfair it is of the ISU to go ahead and hold Worlds (and I firmly believe they will, even if they have to postpone it until May) and what a shame it is that Canada won't field a team. Meanwhile, Russia, Japan, the US, China, and Italy will all send their best skaters and it'll be a pretty competitive event, regardless of any missing athletes.
 

Japanfan

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There is that chance of transmission anywhere, but I'm just curious why, if it's like Skate America where they aren't ever in close contact besides zipping past each other on warm-up ice, this suddenly becomes a huge risk and puts so many others at risk? At their home rinks during practice, I'd be willing to bet that they are closer to each other than they will be the entire weekend at Nationals. Are you suggesting all of that should be shut down too, even in Canada? Unless there's a total lockdown with punishment for those who break it, this ideology won't happen.
I can't see how there could be 0 contact between bubbles of skaters/coaches/officials. Are they all to stay in hotel rooms isolated from each other the whole time? Have no contact with anyone outside their bubble as they make their way from hotel to arena and back? Is that manageable? And many will not be able to avoid having to fly to get to the competition. And will skaters be taken to the comp by individual drivers, since they won't want to be on the bus? Who would pay for that.

At some point, everyone is going to need to stop continuing to blame Trump and realize that people on all points of the spectrum are much more lax with their behaviors now. Actually, I'd say many Trump fans have been consistent with not caring, but now that more things have opened in certain parts of the US, you can't continuously blame those evil Republicans for numbers going up when people are traveling, engaging in more get-togethers/parties, etc.

People in my province, for the most part, are not more lax. Masks just became mandatory a few weeks/a month ago.

And the leader of a nation is a role model. Trump initially called YKW a hoax, refused to wear a mask, and hosted a bunch of largely maskless political events. He set an example.
But if you want to try and insist that A) the majority of people in the USA and/or Canada are sitting at home 24/7 as well or B) it's all the Republicans, I promise you that you are very wrong. Doesn't make them 'right', but think about the people that have to work and for those who live in tourist cities and have worked in the field for so many years with little to no other skills, what do you suggest? And before you say entry-level anything, consider cost of living in such cities.
I was speaking for myself, not for other people, in response to a comment you made. I did not say or imply that most Americans/Canadians were sitting at home. Of course, people have to go to work. I believe I said that also.

And why are they rising? Because it's cold? Or because people are becoming more comfortable with their actions and/or getting bored? Consider younger people before you claim that no one is bored-- whether they are right or wrong.
I think they are rising in part because some people are in part becoming more comfortable with their actions and/or getting bored. But I don't think that is the primary reason. I think the numbers are rising because the measures needed to fully contain the *****, like full lockdown, are really hard to implement and come at a huge economic and social cost. And some people have to go out to work, such as hospital workers, factory workers, grocery store workers.

But as the numbers continue to rise, we are seeing and likely will see more lockdowns or restrictions. And the more contagious variants are frightening.

However, I'm not a Public Health Officer, and this is just IMHO.
 

Japanfan

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Well, I guess it's a good thing you're in Canada so you have little to fear from outbreaks that might result from last week's riot at the US Capitol. I can't imagine that being on the opposite coast in another country you'll need to worry about an outbreak occurring in your city from people returning after they joined the protest.

I am very grateful to be Canadian right now. For a whole bunch of reasons.

And especially now that Canadian Nationals have been cancelled, there won't be any US-based skaters traveling to your fair city to increase the danger of an outbreak.

I hadn't expected the event to be held here as planned. I had hoped for a virtual event. Although the skaters would have still perhaps competed at Thunderbird sans audience. given that the arena had been booked. I would have been okay with that actually, but it appears Skate Canada and the Canadian government are not.

That might be the only bright light in the sad news of the cancellation of Canadian Nationals - the rest of us on FSU won't have to read the hand-wringing and worry over the bubble not being tight enough, or skaters not getting enough training time to adequately prepare. It is, of course, offset by the eventual moaning and complaining we're sure to hear about how unfair it is of the ISU to go ahead and hold Worlds (and I firmly believe they will, even if they have to postpone it until May) and what a shame it is that Canada won't field a team. Meanwhile, Russia, Japan, the US, China, and Italy will all send their best skaters and it'll be a pretty competitive event, regardless of any missing athletes.

I did not know that Canada would not field a team to Worlds, and think it is a shame. However, TBH I am not sure that Worlds will take place.
 

essence_of_soy

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Being in total isolation is impossible at any event.

In Australia, a driver shuttling international flight crew contracted the ***** and helped start a new wave (yet to be controlled) in Sydney.

Meanwhile, cricket players from overseas were complaining that they had to stay in hotel lockdown. But somehow, managed to sneak out for lunch.

In an ideal situation, it simply isn't enough to abide by the rules. That a more contagious strain has managed to spread around the world, means that even the best intentions aren't absolute.

As a support staff member at a school with more than 900 students, every day even being on campus when there were clusters nearby, made it an anxious experience.

I hope skaters are given the choice whether they want to compete or not.
 
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MacMadame

Staying at home
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I did not know that Canada would not field a team to Worlds,
Skate Canada has not said they won't field a team. That is speculation based on an older article that talked about their responses to a poll that the ISU took of their members.
 

Dobre

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I don't think numbers are going up clear across the U.S. right now because people are more lax than they were a month ago. Numbers were going down in the upper Midwest, Pacific Northwest, & Montana & Wyoming & Michigan all through early December when people were probably doing about the same things as they are now.

But people traveled & saw family for Christmas. They saw people they don't usually see. Then they all went about doing the same normal things they had been doing previously in December & spread the ***** around their communities & now numbers are going up clear across the country, even in Hawaii & Vermont. Also we have the new variant, which is probably aiding & abetting; but not enough evidence of it to say that it's a major factor in spread yet.

None of this has anything to do with Canada, of course, so my apologies for the tangent. Things are not good in Nevada right now (currently twice as high as the state's peak from the summer), but skating-wise we're lucky. It is smack dab in between two states with over 100 cases per 100,000 right now and if things were as bad in Nevada as they are in L.A., I don't think even Las Vegas would be open. (The governor extended Las Vegas's statewide freeze today). Hopefully new cases do not get worse in Nevada & instead start to crest as we get two weeks out from New Years, but if the hospital situation gets worse in Nevada, we may be lucky the event is happening this weekend & just get in under the wire.
 
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Carolla5501

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I think the danger is that someone in the bubble will be an asymptomatic carrier, transmit YKW to someone else, and thereby start community transmission. But that seems obvious. People need to go to work and buy groceries. They don't need to take planes to compete in FS.
So why is that danger "greater" than the danger in the bubble at their local rink?

And apparently you refuse to even consider the "plane is not the source of all evil" evidence LOL!

You say people need to go to work... guess what, that's EXACTLY what the skaters are doing.

Honestly I don't know the right response but the argument that they might come into contact with someone is pretty much, so??? they could do that anywhere and for most of them they are NOT training everyday with no other skaters/coaches etc around. It's a "community" (which is why 3 pairs from Colorado didn't get on a plane to go to Nationals, their community has an issue)

As for the "more contagious" version. Yeah, it's like we all think "the ***** will only mutate in the UK so if we can keep it there we are safe" Hmm.......
 

Japanfan

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So why is that danger "greater" than the danger in the bubble at their local rink?

Because they will be in contact with people outside of their bubble, increasing their chances of contracting YKW.


And apparently you refuse to even consider the "plane is not the source of all evil" evidence LOL!

There have been a lot of cases of transmission on planes. Everyday in my province a new list of flights on which someone had YKW are identified. The list is long.



You say people need to go to work... guess what, that's EXACTLY what the skaters are doing.

In a sense, yes, but it's not the same as people who have to go work to earn income in order to live. Aside from the few funded athletes (five in each discipline in Canada SFAIK), most competitors at Nationals will not earn income. Rather, they will spend a fair bit of their own/their families' own income to get their.

And, many of the competitors do not skate full time as a job. Some of them are still in high school.
As for the "more contagious" version. Yeah, it's like we all think "the ***** will only mutate in the UK so if we can keep it there we are safe" Hmm.......
Not quite. At least one of the new variants have been identified in Canada, I am not sure if it the UK one but I think it is.

I don't think anyone feels exactly safe at this point of time. But, we can still take steps to improve our safety as much as possible.
 

skategal

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From someone on the other side of Canada with super low crud numbers, almost every one of our cases come from travel into our province from other non-Atlantic provinces of Canada, so I do not blame BC one bit for not wanting to hold Nationals and introduce potential cases into the province.

Plus they may have gathering limits in place or about to put them in and the second they start making exceptions for some groups and not others, all heck breaks out politically.

It is a shame though....for sure.
 
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sk8girl

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So if worlds happen......who goes?
Skate Canada could do virtual monitoring for the skaters who would be eligible (which wouldn't be that many skaters, depending on what the ISU decides about the minimum scores needed this year), say around the time that Canadians was supposed to take place.

There wouldn't have to be any travel involved for the monitoring - they would just need to do a video call to the skaters' training rink and have them skate. At least that way everyone would have a chance to improve on their Challenge performances, and those who didn't do Challenge could get their performances out there for Skate Canada.

Then I guess Skate Canada would just need to make their choices. Tough for sure...
 

haribobo

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If Worlds does happen and if Canada decides to send a team...also I think min score would have to be dropped for this year, its just too silly otherwise.

I think the dance team is clearly G/P, FB/S, and L/L.

Pairs is a judgment call between Matte/Ferland (2nd at Challenge) and Walsh/Michaud, but I feel like M/F may not have another opportunity, and I'd send them since placement would only change by 1-2 spots regardless.

Men, could be a tough one. I'd go with Roman if he wins Challenge with a good skate based on him also winning Nationals last year. If Nam or someone else wins Challenge, that's a tougher call with Keegan also skating well at SA.

Ladies, just send top 2 from Challenge and be done with it. I don't care if it ends up as Amelia Orzel and Michelle Long, Gabby, Schizas, whoever. Nobody was terribly convincing last year, it just doesn't matter that much, go with who is doing well most recently. No, challenge isn't totally "fair", but neither is anything else. Not worth a ruckus IMO.
 

Vase

Active Member
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So sad, but not surprising. I hope all the athletes all over the World stay healthy and motivated !
So do I
Can’t imagine how hard this would be to do, especially upcoming an Olympic season, but I’m sure some feel unsure of the the Olympics happening
 

MacMadame

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You say people need to go to work... guess what, that's EXACTLY what the skaters are doing.
But not everyone needs to go to work. I don't go to work, for example. I work from home. The only people who need to go to work are people in essential jobs that can't be performed from home and people who would out on the street homeless if they don't go to work. I gather the latter isn't a big issue in Canada since the government is doing the sensible thing and basically paying people to stay home. So it's just essential workers. Which figure skaters are not.

So if worlds happen......who goes?
Either a committee decides based on whatever data they have or they schedule some sort of test skate among the contenders if it's not obvious who to send.

They could also have a mini-Nationals a month before assuming that Worlds is moved to May (my prediction) and in April cases are much better (experts' predictions) so having Nationals is safe.
 

tony

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But not everyone needs to go to work. I don't go to work, for example. I work from home. The only people who need to go to work are people in essential jobs that can't be performed from home and people who would out on the street homeless if they don't go to work. I gather the latter isn't a big issue in Canada since the government is doing the sensible thing and basically paying people to stay home. So it's just essential workers. Which figure skaters are not.
This isn't really correct. You wouldn't consider most jobs in Florida (and big cities) to be essential but here are the options: go back and attempt to make the money you need to live, find an entry-level online job that will not pay for your bills, or try to claim unemployment still that A) isn't much money to begin with and B) is almost impossible to get now in places that have basically opened up because they aren't going to accept 'cannot work because of CV' as an excuse anymore. That extra $600/$400 a week was gone after four weeks in Florida. Average rent (and pretty ordinary living situations here) in Miami is $2000 -- $550 max every two weeks pays just over half of rent a month.

You're looking at it through the eyes of someone who has a job at home, hasn't lost their job, and has the experience and history to be able to do so without any drop in income. Not the case for many people. Not real life. Also, many people who had the ability to work from home have lost their jobs, companies aren't in a mad rush to hire, and they are now looking at options like restaurants or bars or Uber or food delivery (or OnlyFans) because the $10/hour busy work/entry level isn't going to cut it for them, either.
 

Louis

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In most countries, elite athletes - which skaters are - have exceptions.

Even so, "essential worker" is very loosely defined. Cigarette vendors / tobacconists, beer and wine stores, coffee shops, restaurants (for takeaway), convenience stores, tchotchke / souvenir stores (as long as they sell convenience foods), and garden centers are all "essential" in most places. Click and collect is allowed in most places. Stores with other goods can sell them if they're in substantially the same area as essential goods. I'd venture to say the world can live without all of these things, if we really had to.

I don't see any reason why skaters of a caliber to have a reasonable chance of competing at a national or world championships should not be considered as "essential" as any of the above.

If we move into lockdown phase 10567348 where only grocery stores and pharmacies are allowed to open, and where other elite sport has stopped, then I'll reconsider.

Also, I am not sure if Canada has done better than Europe, but while the overall government support is excellent, there are some notable exceptions - including self-employed and those whose roles have been made permanently redundant. I have two friends who became homeless (thankfully, both have found temporary places to live), one who turned to porn (Tony's onlyfans example is not uncommon), and several others on the brink. It's great that the government had made things good for ~80%. 20% are still suffering mightily, in ways that they may never recover from. I highly doubt elite skaters or their coaches are uniformly being paid to stay at home.
 

Skate Talker

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I am not surprised the Nationals won't happen next month and only just the slightest bit surprised they are cancelled outright rather than pushed back or replaced by some sort of virtual competition. However after reading the summation of Roman's video I can clearly see why those options don't make sense this year either. I do feel sad for the athletes and I have no doubt there will be long-term consequences to the Canadian figure skaters but I also have no doubt this whole ********* has impacted every single skater in some way.

But to keep things in perspective, name someone who's life has not or will not be impacted to some degree. Imho this is the only possible decision.
 

Dave of the North

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There have been a lot of cases of transmission on planes. Everyday in my province a new list of flights on which someone had YKW are identified. The list is long.

This seems to be a common misunderstanding. The first statement does not follow on from the second. The second sentence doesn't mean these people caught YKW on the flight. They were diagnosed later and then the warnings are put out so that other passengers can self monitor for symptoms.

In flight transmission rare

It's too bad we won't have Canadians this year. I hope that Worlds will still happen and a Canadian team will be able to attend.
 

tony

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Ontario just announced a 28 day lockdown. Only allowed out of your house for essential reasons.

I am betting that this also played a role in canceling Nationals.

I doubt rinks will be open anytime soon in Ontario where a large portion of Canadian figure skaters train.
These half-baked ideas make zero sense to me. If other provinces aren't doing the same, then in 28 days you'll see an expected drop in Ontario but then open the flood gates for everyone to come back and start it all over again? (and I understand hospital capacity issues, but I just don't think any plan is a good one unless the entire country is locked down equally)
 
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