Canadian Nationals 2021 Cancelled

binbinwinwin

Well-Known Member
Messages
475
The skaters may be accepting of the risk but it doesn’t change that traveling is inviting more risks than staying close to home. It’s just the skaters are more willing to accept that additional risk.

SC as an organization saw that differently and I can also see Vancouver/BC not wanting to host an event with people flying in from other parts of Canada where things are not good right now.
Very much agree. The skaters are accepting of risk but the medical system truly cannot handle the ********* right now, I have friends working in hospitals across the GTA where a lot of skaters train and they are allocating and rationing their ICU beds right now. If more than 3 people have a stroke and need emergency care at the same hospital, anyone after the first 3 will not have a bed. If we have a snowstorm and 2 feet of snow are dropped and a family gets into a bad car accident? Not everyone in the car may be able to get emergency care at the nearest hospital. Flying out and flying back in carries a lot of risks. Anything we can do to even prevent one more person from getting sick right now is a good thing.

B.C. has the highest percentage of vaccinated people with the first dose and per 100k people and they are trending down despite the post NYE numbers coming in. They have made more progress and we should keep it that way.

Additionally a lot of smaller rinks are closed. High performance athletes are on the ice for the time being, however to prepare for a competition they need extra training time and usually book ice elsewhere to work more with specialists or choreographers. Many of those "elsewheres" are closed indefinitely because they are smaller rinks and with the limits on skaters, they would lose more money paying the electricity bill for 8 skaters on ice at a time than just shutting down completely for the time being. While they are training, the training time may not be sufficient.
 

Louis

Private citizen
Messages
15,361
The USFS is not doing anything out of step with other elite sport. Protocols are in place. Very few cases are linked to air travel. Why skating fans want to treat the sport like some fourth-tier county fair is beyond me.

If Worlds do happen, I hope the ISU allots all available Olympic spots to the countries that participate. Those that don't can attempt to earn one spot via Nebelhorn if they're ready to stop cowering in the corner at that point. If not, so be it! All choices, even "safe" ones, have consequences.
 

Lemonade20

Former Kurtholic
Messages
936
The USFS is not doing anything out of step with other elite sport. Protocols are in place. Very few cases are linked to air travel. Why skating fans want to treat the sport like some fourth-tier county fair is beyond me.

If Worlds do happen, I hope the ISU allots all available Olympic spots to the countries that participate. Those that don't can attempt to earn one spot via Nebelhorn if they're ready to stop cowering in the corner at that point. If not, so be it! All choices, even "safe" ones, have consequences.
The US Nationals was able to proceed because they have the infrastructure in place to make it a safe event. The hotel is near the rink, and they successfully pulled off an event earlier there. The Canadian Nationals was not able to do the same thing. The skating rink is not close to the hotel, and there is more travel involved (both by air and land). It just wasn't feasible to make a "safe bubble".
 

Stephanie

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,105
The US Nationals was able to proceed because they have the infrastructure in place to make it a safe event. The hotel is near the rink, and they successfully pulled off an event earlier there. The Canadian Nationals was not able to do the same thing. The skating rink is not close to the hotel, and there is more travel involved (both by air and land). It just wasn't feasible to make a "safe bubble".
True, but USFS did move nationals from San Jose to Las Vegas, where the bubble setup was presumably more feasible.
 

Habs

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,500
The US Nationals was able to proceed because they have the infrastructure in place to make it a safe event. The hotel is near the rink, and they successfully pulled off an event earlier there. The Canadian Nationals was not able to do the same thing. The skating rink is not close to the hotel, and there is more travel involved (both by air and land). It just wasn't feasible to make a "safe bubble".

This. And rinks are closed in many places and skaters haven't been able to train or prepare for the event.
 

Lemonade20

Former Kurtholic
Messages
936
If it were up to you people there would be a ban on any figure skating event anywhere for 24 months.

-BB
I wouldn't ban figure skating, just maybe limit how much traveling they need to do? It can be a success if you have the right things in place. Russia didn't care, and Canada just can't make it happen safely. We are more widely spread out than you think.
 

dramagrrl

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,881
If Worlds do happen, I hope the ISU allots all available Olympic spots to the countries that participate. Those that don't can attempt to earn one spot via Nebelhorn if they're ready to stop cowering in the corner at that point. If not, so be it! All choices, even "safe" ones, have consequences.
So you want to punish athletes for following the protocols of their country and federation? This is so ridiculous in so many ways that I don't even know what to say. :rolleyes:
 

tony

Well-Known Member
Messages
8,687
I personally have no problem with any of the country of Canada, the provinces themselves, or Skate Canada deciding that Nationals isn't a good idea.

I do have a problem with people making snide comments about the logic behind holding a Worlds or US Nationals when we've seen other sports go on, we've seen people have to go back to classes, we've seen people go back to their jobs, etc. And then people come in, half-reading the thread, trying to insist that some are arguing from the standpoint of skating being the only thing that matters. As Louis and others have repeatedly pointed out, life is going on outside of figure skating- with precautions. One person came to claim they have one friend who assumes they got CV on a plane but can't be certain, even with all of the science and reports behind saying flights aren't that big of a concern.

When I ask if people have gone to grocery stores, post offices, lunches with friends, meetings with friends in general, their workplaces, been in an Uber/other transportation or ask if they rely on OTHERS to do that for them, I get semi-answers or quotes that bounce around those answers.

Not a single person here, from what I can see, is acting like the world needs to be opened up solely for figure skating. What we are arguing is that there are so many other things going on- whether it be sports-wise or otherwise with safety protocols in place. I mean, even some skaters in otherwise completely shut down areas can still potentially get to the rink.

But every time Canada gets brought up having to do with anything, we hear about how they manage the CV so much better and are so much smarter than other countries. Sorry about it, somewhere, a fairly large population stopped caring as much and the numbers, which started going up way before Christmas, reflect that. And we can start a whole new round of arguments about this, but the posts are there to show it.
 

Louis

Private citizen
Messages
15,361
So you want to punish athletes for following the protocols of their country and federation? This is so ridiculous in so many ways that I don't even know what to say. :rolleyes:
Yes, I do. Everyone else wants to punish hundreds of skaters for the benefit of a few reluctant federations. If Canada or any other country chooses not to field a team at Worlds, it faces the consequences - meaning no Olympic spots and one spot per discipline for Worlds next year. The skaters should look to their federation and their government for answers. It's unfortunate, the same way past boycotts have been, but it's the fairest course of action. At least there's Nebelhorn to try to qualify a spot.

No skater or federation who qualifies an Olympic berth at Stockholm Worlds should have it taken away based on what would have happened if reluctant federations had fielded a team.
 

skatingguy

Golden Team
Messages
7,823
But every time Canada gets brought up having to do with anything, we hear about how they manage the CV so much better and are so much smarter than other countries. Sorry about it, somewhere, a fairly large population stopped caring as much and the numbers, which started going up way before Christmas, reflect that. And we can start a whole new round of arguments about this, but the posts are there to show it.
This was a myth from the beginning - we managed it better than the US, but that's not saying much.
 

tony

Well-Known Member
Messages
8,687
Only some parts of Canada managed CV well.

Other parts, not so well.
This is a far cry from the posts early on, from FSU posters, reaching the point of near-bragging about how Canadians are smarter, they understand what needs to be done, other countries (and everyone in them by association) aren't smart, they can actually stay home and follow regulations, etc. Like I said months ago, all it takes is one. You sit at home 24/7 and/or are very, very cautious about what you are doing? Many Americans are doing the same, but that didn't stop some posters for insisting Canadians all used the same logic. Should I assume you're all not smart now because the numbers went up and you're all equally responsible?
BC has done well without having to have big lockdowns.

They aren’t about to throw that progress out the window now to have a figure skating competition as much as we would all love to see it.
I'm not sure who you're replying to on this part, but since the first part was apparently to me, maybe this one is too? Did you read my first sentence of my post? I get that aspect. I, repeat, don't get the constant snide comments about how Canadians know best. You don't. Check your numbers.
 

dramagrrl

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,881
Yes, I do. Everyone else wants to punish hundreds of skaters for the benefit of a few reluctant federations. If Canada or any other country chooses not to field a team at Worlds, it faces the consequences - meaning no Olympic spots and one spot per discipline for Worlds next year. The skaters should look to their federation and their government for answers. It's unfortunate, the same way past boycotts have been, but it's the fairest course of action. At least there's Nebelhorn to try to qualify a spot.
It's lucky then that you have no role in the ISU and that it is unlikely this will be the course they will take if Worlds do indeed take place and some countries cannot send a team because their federal or provincial/state governments have made rules that are not allowing them to do so.

As for some of the posters above who are saying this is a case of Canadians bragging that we have handled the ********* better than others, I would be the first to say my province's idiotic current government has handled things, especially the second wave, terribly. That does not mean the few correct decisions that have been made in the country - including, in my opinion, the cancellations of both Skate Canada and Canadians - should not be supported or praised.
 

tony

Well-Known Member
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8,687
As for some of the posters above who are saying this is a case of Canadians bragging that we have handled the ********* better than others, I would be the first to say my province's idiotic current government has handled things, especially the second wave, terribly. That does not mean the few correct decisions that have been made in the country - including, in my opinion, the cancellations of both Skate Canada and Canadians - should not be supported or praised.
Well you're picking the wrong bone with me because I've not once said it was a bad decision to cancel those events anywhere on this board. Now if you want to talk about US Nationals, Worlds, or any other event going on and then try to claim that all of the world is shut down and figure skating shouldn't be the exception (as others above have), then you need to adjust your argument.
 

skategal

Bunny mama
Messages
7,022
This is a far cry from the posts early on, from FSU posters, reaching the point of near-bragging about how Canadians are smarter, they understand what needs to be done, other countries (and everyone in them by association) aren't smart, they can actually stay home and follow regulations, etc. Like I said months ago, all it takes is one. You sit at home 24/7 and/or are very, very cautious about what you are doing? Many Americans are doing the same, but that didn't stop some posters for insisting Canadians all used the same logic. Should I assume you're all not smart now because the numbers went up and you're all equally responsible?

I'm not sure who you're replying to on this part, but since the first part was apparently to me, maybe this one is too? Did you read my first sentence of my post? I get that aspect. I, repeat, don't get the constant snide comments about how Canadians know best. You don't. Check your numbers.
I wasn’t replying to you in particular just the thread in general. And being honest.

All I can say is you don’t live in my house where we talk all the time about how ridiculous the numbers in Canada are when we could be doing so much more as a country. :shuffle:

Thankfully we are doing well where I live for various reasons which will be analyzed and discussed ad nauseam in the annals of Public Health for years to come.

And no I don’t stay at home 24/7. We don’t have to here. It’s not necessary anymore.

We all did stay home almost exclusively except for groceries and waking for 16 weeks last spring which helped keep numbers low.

Some things are still not open here and when numbers flare, things like bars and restaurants are shut down for take out only.

Life is slowly returning to normal here and there is light at the end of the tunnel.

But I don’t talk about it much in here where I know others are suffering so much more than we are.

I can say our Provincial and Federal leaders united in their efforts to fight crud which is nice to see.

And there is no appetite anywhere in Canada right now to have a National Figure Championships...not with the public, not with the politicians, not with the health care providers.

There just isn’t.
 

tony

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Messages
8,687
All I can say is you don’t live in my house where we talk all the time about how ridiculous the numbers in Canada are when we could be doing so much more as a country. :shuffle:
All I can say is that some of the Canadian posters on this board don't know what I or anyone else is doing during CV, especially those in the US, but it hasn't stopped them from clumping everyone together. So :shuffle: back, I guess?
And there is no appetite anywhere in Canada right now to have a National Figure Championships...not with the public, not with the politicians, not with the health care providers.


There just isn’t.
I don't disagree-- I've said it how many times now? :lol: They made their decision based on what they thought was best, we move on from that event. However, again, it doesn't mean that Canada speaks for everyone else and their decision reflects somehow that they are the only ones who care and that other events need to be canceled too. You may not be doing this, but there are other posters in this thread and elsewhere on the board who are stating as much.
 

Brenda_Bottems

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Messages
426
I personally have no problem with any of the country of Canada, the provinces themselves, or Skate Canada deciding that Nationals isn't a good idea.
I always have assumed you were French-Canadian?

They aren’t about to throw that progress out the window now to have a figure skating competition as much as we would all love to see it.
I certainly think the majority of Canadians would want to take that risk to have the opportunity to see another stunning Canadian ladies competition.

-BB
 

Erin

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Messages
10,044
I, repeat, don't get the constant snide comments about how Canadians know best. You don't. Check your numbers.

I don't think the post you are responding to even remotely said that Canadians know best. The statement was that the area where Canadians was supposed to be held is doing well, with the implication that it's better than other areas of Canada where skaters would be coming from. A pretty neutral statement that checks out by the numbers.

I have seen comments from other Canadians that I would consider unnecessarily smug, and I cringe every time I see them. I assume I'm not the only one. Don't paint us all with the same brush just like you don't want to be.
 

tony

Well-Known Member
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8,687
I don't think the post you are responding to even remotely said that Canadians know best. The statement was that the area where Canadians was supposed to be held is doing well, with the implication that it's better than other areas of Canada where skaters would be coming from. A pretty neutral statement that checks out by the numbers.

I have seen comments from other Canadians that I would consider unnecessarily smug, and I cringe every time I see them. I assume I'm not the only one. Don't paint us all with the same brush just like you don't want to be.
The comment you've quoted from me was stemming from a blanket statement, not quoting anyone, but thoughts based on the last few pages of back-and-forth. Keep reading my replies prior to (edited to clarify prior to and not past) this one- I asked if (certain) Canadians want to claim all Americans are irresponsible about CV, should we in turn, now months later, do the exact same thing back? I've not once actually said all of you are the same- the smug ones know who they are.
 
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Colonel Green

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7,208
Yes, I do. Everyone else wants to punish hundreds of skaters for the benefit of a few reluctant federations.
No, it isn't a question of "punishing" any skaters. It's dangerous to be holding a World Championships at all at a time when inessential international travel is being discouraged; the "hundreds of skaters" and people around them shouldn't be needlessly endangered.

But failing that, yes, if they persist in holding a World Championships under these conditions, it should not be the designated Olympic qualifier. The ISU should not be incentivizing people to ignore best practices with regard to health and safety.
 

Karen-W

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4,548
No, it isn't a question of "punishing" any skaters. It's dangerous to be holding a World Championships at all at a time when inessential international travel is being discouraged; the "hundreds of skaters" and people around them shouldn't be needlessly endangered.

But failing that, yes, if they persist in holding a World Championships under these conditions, it should not be the designated Olympic qualifier. The ISU should not be incentivizing people to ignore best practices with regard to health and safety.
Why should it not be designated as the Olympic qualifier? I'm quite positive that any skater who was named to the World team for his/her country would choose to compete, irrespective of the travel restrictions that might or might not exist in 2 months. As I stated earlier, I'm positive that Russia, the USA, Japan, Italy, China, and probably most other countries will be able to send their very best team to Worlds and it will be a highly competitive event. There is no need to leave these countries dangling, wondering how large their teams will be, just because some countries choose to not send teams.
 

skategal

Bunny mama
Messages
7,022
I don’t know who the smug ones are so I’ll have to take your guys word for it.

I do have a bunch of people on ignore and regularly skip over some other posters posts....so....yeah :lol:

And yeah, no desire to live through another Canadian ladies event.

I was there live at the infamous event in 1995 when the event was won with 1 triple? :scream:

At this point, I would watch Worlds and
US Nationals but I don’t really care much if they happen or not.

Or if Worlds happens and Canada doesn’t attend.

Or if we have to qualify at Nebelhorn.

It is what it is.

I do feel bad for the athletes.
 

tony

Well-Known Member
Messages
8,687
I'm going to blame myself for this one, but I really wonder whether some (note the SOME) Canadians would maybe be slightly less concerned about Worlds happening at all if the numbers were better there and say, only terrible in... Australia/it's locked down there and Worlds isn't possible? Because I'm just imagining the constant :rolleyes: replies a certain Aussie poster would get by using the same argument.
 

Judy

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,023
The USFS is not doing anything out of step with other elite sport. Protocols are in place. Very few cases are linked to air travel. Why skating fans want to treat the sport like some fourth-tier county fair is beyond me.

If Worlds do happen, I hope the ISU allots all available Olympic spots to the countries that participate. Those that don't can attempt to earn one spot via Nebelhorn if they're ready to stop cowering in the corner at that point. If not, so be it! All choices, even "safe" ones, have consequences.
Well Louis ... I support my country in taking ********* very seriously. Skate Canada would be under government restrictions and guidelines. We don’t have Trump as our leader here thank god.
 

Louis

Private citizen
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15,361
Well Louis ... I support my country in taking ********* very seriously. Skate Canada would be under government restrictions and guidelines. We don’t have Trump as our leader here thank god.

Proving Tony's point.

This has nothing to do with Trump. Elite sporting events are happening all over the world and have an exception in virtually every country, including Canada.
 

Colonel Green

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,208
Why should it not be designated as the Olympic qualifier?
For the reasons I already spelled out.

And for the record, if Worlds does happen and is the Olympic qualifier, I expect Canada will send a team because of the stakes. Which exemplifies my point. If it was just Worlds on its own, while I'd still think it needlessly risky given the worldwide numbers, that'd be one thing; but the Olympic qualifier is the ISU actively trying to incentivize people to compete against health advice. Which is irresponsible.
 

mjb52

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4,002
I think there should be (and will be) a Worlds; however, it's also important to ensure that all countries are treated fairly and have a fair opportunity to qualify to the Olympics. I think the ISU will make sure to do that, Canada is a powerful federation and it's not going to be thrown to the wolves. A lot of people are frustrated in all directions, but we all ultimately want the same thing, a great and fair Olympic competition, it's valuable to remember that and not lash out at each other.
 

Judy

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,023
Proving Tony's point.

This has nothing to do with Trump. Elite sporting events are happening all over the world and have an exception in virtually every country, including Canada.
I'm going to blame myself for this one, but I really wonder whether some (note the SOME) Canadians would maybe be slightly less concerned about Worlds happening at all if the numbers were better there and say, only terrible in... Australia/it's locked down there and Worlds isn't possible? Because I'm just imagining the constant :rolleyes: replies a certain Aussie poster would get by using the same argument.
Well they could feel that way but the reality is that the goverment in coordination with the premiers in each provinces are making the rules. I don’t follow skating at all anymore although I’ll probably tune in for Olympics. I don’t even know if indoor rinks are allowed to be open at least in Ontario/Quebec is on a massive lockdown. Our border is closed to a lot of countries.
 

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