Canadian Nationals 2021 Cancelled

skategal

Bunny mama
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7,022
These half-baked ideas make zero sense to me. If other provinces aren't doing the same, then in 28 days you'll see an expected drop in Ontario but then open the flood gates for everyone to come back and start it all over again? (and I understand hospital capacity issues, but I just don't think any plan is a good one unless the entire country is locked down equally)
It's worked in many parts of Canada.

And Ontario has done so much to try and avoid doing this.

But they have to do something.

The health care system there is close to collapse.

Their neighbor (Quebec) also has strict restrictions now as does most of Canada.

Atlantic Canada is doing the best now with almost everything open but it is because we had a hard 16 week lockdown in Spring and re-opened things slowly, with some extra restrictions over the Holidays to keep numbers from spiralling.
 

Vase

Active Member
Messages
220
How long is this to last in Ontario? I Wonder if the athletes can still train throughout these new restrictions
 
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Sylvia

Wishing I could go back to the Lake Placid JGP
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63,967
Pairs is a judgment call between Matte/Ferland (2nd at Challenge) and Walsh/Michaud, but I feel like M/F may not have another opportunity, and I'd send them since placement would only change by 1-2 spots regardless.
Coach Alison Purkiss seems to believe indicate Walsh/Michaud are all but but assured to retain their Worlds spot, according to an article linked in the Canadian Pairs thread here: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/th...airs-news-updates.107092/page-16#post-5930889

ETA 2 excerpts here:
Purkiss’ skaters performed their programs more than six weeks ago, while skaters in B.C. and Quebec just recently completed theirs. That put the Brant club competitors at a disadvantage.
“For us, we recorded the video at the end of November so when (the announcer) kept saying on the broadcast on the Skate Canada site that it was skated a week or two ago, it was two months ago for us,” Purkiss said.
“It was frustrating because they’re all way better than they were when they recorded the video.”
Walsh and Michaud weren’t able to compete because Walsh had an injury when the performances were recorded. With a spot at the now cancelled nationals secured and a berth at the worlds assured, there was no need for them to push themselves and have Walsh further hurt herself.
 
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Vase

Active Member
Messages
220
Coach Alison Purkiss seems to believe Walsh/Michaud are all but but assured to retain their Worlds spot
I’m sure athletes and coaches are aware of who would be going to Worlds. Since doing a virtual Challenge back in December, they’d have lots of time to discuss worst case scenarios and make decisions.
But I’d say the big question is how do the Olympic spots get chosen if there’s no Worlds, or if countries choose not to send athletes.
Which if our pair teams are still training, I guess they are hoping to send athletes.
I’m really feeling for these athletes, coaches and all involved. It would be a hard position to be in, as a fan it’s all unsettling.
 

Sylvia

Wishing I could go back to the Lake Placid JGP
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63,967
Did anyone catch Nam Nguyen's IG Live that just ended? Just wondering if he said anything worth sharing here. I only heard the part at the end where he said this was the "third cancellation this year" for him (Worlds, Skate Canada International, and now Nationals :().
 

overedge

G.O.A.T.
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29,214
World Junior Championship in ice hockey has just been held in Canada. Is it more a money issue rather than a health safety issue to basically cancel the whole season for figure skaters in Canada? The skaters must be frustrated.

The World Juniors was held in a bubble in Edmonton where there were hotels right next to the ice rink, and it's in a part of the city that's relatively easy to seal off - it's designed for outdoor festivals etc. Canadian Nationals were going to be at Thunderbird rink in Vancouver, which is on the UBC campus and isn't near any major hotels. The skaters would have to travel to and from their hotels to the rink on buses or by car, which would increase their risk of exposure. Also, pretty much everything else at UBC is closed because classes are online, so they might have had to make other trips if there was other stuff they needed. So it's not at all comparable to the setup for World Juniors.
 
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screech

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6,343
I doubt Worlds will happen, but if it does, I think for the most part they should use Challenge, as for everyone but Keegan, it's the only event they'll have taken part in. In fact, other than him, Stephen, and Walsh/Michaud, I think all the top skaters who would be up for consideration are taking part (I may have missed someone).

For men's, Nam was selected to go to Worlds last year, and if he does decently (even without winning) at challenge, I see them honouring that, unless Roman completely blows him out of the water. If neither performs that great, then send Keegan, since he did okay at Skate America, and he's overall the best skater.
 

dramagrrl

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Messages
1,881
Deciding to travel through a blinding snowstorm to attend the free skates at last year's Canadians seems years ago now. I am doubly glad I risked the snow last year - or perhaps triply glad, since I also was supposed to attend Worlds in Montreal and that didn't happen either. :(
 
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tony

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8,687
With Sweden drowning in ********* and the new highly infectious ********* "Super Strain" on the move, Worlds is not happening.

US Nationals would probably be cancelled too but they're desperate for that NBC media-rights money.
I have a serious question about this one too, as I asked similar earlier:

If the country is drowning w/ cases or there are only a few, what extra risk do you have by going on a plane from A to B, getting to the hotel, and probably having similar restrictions to what the USFS is trying this weekend? Have any of you been in an Uber in the last 9 months? I don't feel particularly unsafe when I have to sit in the back seat and both I and the driver have a mask on. Hell, some of them have even put up protective barriers. Some skaters might be taking Ubers or other forms of transportation to the rink as it is, and they may be around more people at the rink or at home (family still going to work, whatever) than they would be at Worlds if they are told to stay in their rooms or have little movement outside of practices and competition.

Not one skater is sitting at home if they are able to skate. They are going to the rink daily. I don't know why there's this belief that the Swedish atmosphere or air quality is going to put skaters and coaches at risk automatically. That's not how it works. All it takes is one person ANYWHERE you're at, but getting to the rink is pretty low-risk all across the board IMO.

If they are going from A to B (again considering we've been told repeatedly that flying is not an extreme danger), how is this any more of a no-no than anything else they've been doing at home? They are not locked up in their houses.

Some of you try to phrase it like the skaters are being forced to compete. The Canadian skaters (yes, the ones with so much more logic and common sense according to some), all wanted to compete as well at Nationals according to Sadovsky, and you better believe the top skaters still want Worlds to happen. Italians, Russians, Japanese, most of European skaters have also gotten through events even if their countries were experiencing increases in numbers.
 

victorskid

Happily ignoring pontificators & know-it-alls
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7,663
I have a serious question about this one too, as I asked similar earlier:

If the country is drowning w/ cases or there are only a few, what extra risk do you have by going on a plane from A to B, getting to the hotel, and probably having similar restrictions to what the USFS is trying this weekend? Have any of you been in an Uber in the last 9 months? I don't feel particularly unsafe when I have to sit in the back seat and both I and the driver have a mask on. Hell, some of them have even put up protective barriers. Some skaters might be taking Ubers or other forms of transportation to the rink as it is, and they may be around more people at the rink or at home (family still going to work, whatever) than they would be at Worlds if they are told to stay in their rooms or have little movement outside of practices and competition.

Not one skater is sitting at home if they are able to skate. They are going to the rink daily. I don't know why there's this belief that the Swedish atmosphere or air quality is going to put skaters and coaches at risk automatically. That's not how it works. All it takes is one person ANYWHERE you're at, but getting to the rink is pretty low-risk all across the board IMO.

If they are going from A to B (again considering we've been told repeatedly that flying is not an extreme danger), how is this any more of a no-no than anything else they've been doing at home? They are not locked up in their houses.

Some of you try to phrase it like the skaters are being forced to compete. The Canadian skaters (yes, the ones with so much more logic and common sense according to some), all wanted to compete as well at Nationals according to Sadovsky, and you better believe the top skaters still want Worlds to happen. Italians, Russians, Japanese, most of European skaters have also gotten through events even if their countries were experiencing increases in numbers.
I would just like to politely remind folks that travelling across the country or internationally does not just involve the plane, it also involves airports (often more than one), ground transportation, etc. Those posting information about transmission of YKW in planes need to expand their focus a little. We have all seen the folks who refuse to wear masks or wear them incorrectly.....

The Canadian Championships have been cancelled for this year. Skate Canada made that decision. Skate Canada will make any decisions necessary IF Worlds take place this year (either on schedule or at another time).

We all may have opinions but we are not part of the decision making.
 

tony

Well-Known Member
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8,687
I would just like to politely remind folks that travelling across the country or internationally does not just involve the plane, it also involves airports (often more than one), ground transportation, etc. Those posting information about transmission of YKW in planes need to expand their focus a little. We have all seen the folks who refuse to wear masks or wear them incorrectly.....

Canadians has been cancelled for this year. Skate Canada made that decision. Skate Canada will make any decisions necessary IF Worlds take place this year (either on schedule or at another time).

We all may have opinions but we are not part of the decision making.
I politely pointed out the Uber/transportation aspect of things. Standing in an airport and keeping distance is different than going to a grocery store how? And if you haven't gone to one, then you're making someone else do it for you. Are you concerned for that person? Have you gone to the post office? How is going to the rink every day and sharing the ice with more people than you'll have on practice ice at Worlds somehow safer? I expanded on much more than just the plane and you chose to focus on that, so I'll add more questions.

This isn't a bunch of people sitting without a masking on partying with others at any point from A to B. Where is the extreme risk coming in that they don't have at home?

Like I asked-- have you been in an Uber or any kind of transportation in the last 9 months? They are taking a lot of extra precautions, as well, and I wouldn't say that's very high risk. I live in a hot spot and if I choose to go to a bar or the beach or a place where a bunch of people are able to not care as much, then that's on me. None of this A to B stuff is extreme risk.
 

aka_gerbil

Rooting for the Underdogs
Messages
2,363
When you travel, particularly air travel, it’s not just you get on a plane just with people from location A who are all traveling to location B. You’re mixing people who originated from many different locations and are going to many different locations. Skater A is on a plane coming from location A, but there’s a passenger from location B who traveled in from elsewhere and location A is where that other person is changing planes. Other passenger is coming in from a location where the new more transmissible variant is more prevalent. 20% of negative pcr tests for ynw are false negatives. Other passenger manages to infect skater A.

It’s too early to detect by PCR when Skater A arrives. Skater A passes it on to Skater B who lives in Location C. Event ends, people go home. Skater B passes more transmissible variant to other people in Location C where it wasn’t before. How any disease or variant gets from one geographic location to another is travel. With new variants popping up, travel is how they spread from place to place.

Air travel allowed for efficient mixing of a lot of people from a lot of different places by design. If you’re staying home in your own location, you’re not mixing with nearly as many people from nearly as many places.

As a related aside relating to YNW and travel, one person who I know most certainly caught it flying. With the logistics and timing, it’s the only place they could have. Person is one of the ones who ended up with the neuro/cognitive long haul symptoms. It’s been 4 1/2 months.
 

tony

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8,687
When you travel, particularly air travel, it’s not just you get on a plane just with people from location A who are all traveling to location B. You’re mixing people who originated from many different locations and are going to many different locations. Skater A is on a plane coming from location A, but there’s a passenger from location B who traveled in from elsewhere and location A is where that other person is changing planes. Other passenger is coming in from a location where the new more transmissible variant is more prevalent. 20% of negative pcr tests for ynw are false negatives. Other passenger manages to infect skater A.
Guess what? When you go to the rink and you share the ice with all the other skaters you train with, you also don't know what they've done in all their personal time. This is true of any activity you do- even a casual lunch or coffee with just one or two friends. Have you been to the grocery store at all? Do you know where all of those people have been? Or like I asked above, do you stay home and make someone else go through that 'risk'?

If there's only one case in your city, you still have a chance of getting CV unless you've gone into complete lockdown and that makes me assume you have people doing necessity things for you.

I live in a tourist city that people can still come vacation from many different countries-- and trust me, they are. Does that mean I should feel like the local Whole Foods is equivalent to your airport scenario because it's a heavily tourist city? Should I assume everything indoors in Miami is equivalent to an airport?
 

victorskid

Happily ignoring pontificators & know-it-alls
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7,663
With all due respect, it is time to discontinue this discussion, especially in relation to the cancellation of the CANADIAN championships. That is a "done deal".

By the way, it has just been announced that another skater has had to withdraw from the US Nationals due to a "surprise positive result", apparently after they travelled to Las Vegas....
 

tony

Well-Known Member
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8,687
With all due respect, it is time to discontinue this discussion, especially in relation to the cancellation of the CANADIAN championships. That is a "done deal".

By the way, it has just been announced that another skater has had to withdraw from the US Nationals due to a "surprise positive result".
Because threads never drift, right? I was replying to a poster who made comments about both Worlds and US Nationals when you directly quoted me, having half-read my post.

And as you speak about this being Canadian Nationals, you throw in a US Nats mention again. Got it!
 

aka_gerbil

Rooting for the Underdogs
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2,363
I have a job that cannot be done at home, so it’s been off to work for me ever since this ********* started. I work with a group who understand how diseases spread and we all have the same assessment of the risks and how we reduce that.

I stopped in-person shopping in June after three trips to different stores in which people could not maintain social distance or wear face masks properly. The stores I use have staff who collect the orders so me staying out of the store reduces the number of people in there (I do not use instacart or any service like it.)
 

tony

Well-Known Member
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8,687
I stopped in-person shopping in June after three trips to different stores in which people could not maintain social distance or wear face masks properly. The stores I use have staff who collect the orders so me staying out of the store reduces the number of people in there (I do not use instacart or any service like it.)
You're still making someone else do it for you, whether it's in the store itself (I'm going to take a wild guess that it's not just one person working in the store) or it's Instacart. Instacart people are probably not even around as many others for the extended amounts of time as the employees you're relying on.

Have you been to the post office? The hair salon? Any restaurant at all?

You're going to work and having an assessment of how to stay safe. Skaters and their families/coaches can also come to this understanding and weigh their risks. But again, European competitions have been happening this season. Skaters flew to Skate America, too, and it's not like the numbers in the US were amazing.
 

skategal

Bunny mama
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7,022
It’s not about individual risk.

It’s about risk to a population. In this case, it’s about risk to the population of BC and their health care system.

It’s a huge risk to BC to hold this event there and have that many people travel into the province from hot spots in Canada.

People who are human and do take unnecessary risks sometimes and don’t practice perfect public health regulations as many of us do sometimes.

Don’t underestimate the BC government’s influence on Skate Canada’s decision.

It’s not being held because BC doesn’t want it held there and don’t want to open up to the risk for their population and health care system.

A similar decision was taken with Worlds last year. It was cancelled because the Quebec government said no.

The World Juniors were held in Alberta because the Alberta government said yes. They were willing to take the risks to have it.

Time will tell if that was a good call or not, but someone in the government including the MOH would have assessed the plans and said “yes it’s okay” just as BC is now saying “no.”
 

aka_gerbil

Rooting for the Underdogs
Messages
2,363
Have you been to the post office? The hair salon? Any restaurant at all?

No post office since last February. The last time I was in a restaurant was the first week of March 2020. I did get my hair trimmed in the fall when we had a less bad lull because I was getting bad headaches. My hair is simple, we didn’t shampoo, in/out in five minutes, my stylist and I were the only people there. I spent two weeks worried about and think at this point, I can make it on not getting trimmed again until after I’m vaccinated hopefully in the late spring.


You're going to work and having an assessment of how to stay safe. Skaters and their families/coaches can also come to this understanding and weigh their risks. But again, European competitions have been happening this season. Skaters flew to Skate America, too, and it's not like the numbers in the US were amazing.

The skaters may be accepting of the risk but it doesn’t change that traveling is inviting more risks than staying close to home. It’s just the skaters are more willing to accept that additional risk.

SC as an organization saw that differently and I can also see Vancouver/BC not wanting to host an event with people flying in from other parts of Canada where things are not good right now.

A lot of those Euro competitions have been Russia and how many skaters have gotten sick? At least one career seems to have ended because of it...
 

Marco

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14,727
At some point, everyone is going to need to stop continuing to blame Trump and realize that people on all points of the spectrum are much more lax with their behaviors now. Actually, I'd say many Trump fans have been consistent with not caring, but now that more things have opened in certain parts of the US, you can't continuously blame those evil Republicans for numbers going up when people are traveling, engaging in more get-togethers/parties, etc.
Well they haven't stopped blaming China.
 

MacMadame

Staying at home
Messages
38,772
With Sweden drowning in ********* and the new highly infectious ********* "Super Strain" on the move, Worlds is not happening.

US Nationals would probably be cancelled too but they're desperate for that NBC media-rights money.
And Sweden isn't desperate for money?
 

mjb52

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4,003
If you mean Shpilevaya, didn't she gets sick over the summer, way before there were any competitions? Not sure what's going on with her now, but the larger issue may be splitting with her partner. I don't think we've had updates on her health in ages. Everyone wants the skaters to be safe, but it's weird to contrast the hyper-vigilance now with how Kolyada was out for over a year because of sinusitis and Liza missed months because of pneumonia and no one thought all competitions should be cancelled. There has to be a way of balancing reasonable concerns and precautions with this impulse to just shut life down. If everything is going to be shut down until life is risk free, everything is going to be shut down forever. Different countries clearly have decided to approach this issue different ways. That is their right. No one is demanding Canada hold Nationals whether they want to or not. But other countries are holding Nationals and that's their right too. And lots of countries and lots of skaters want there to be a Worlds. If they are willing to accept the risk, that is their right as well. No one is going to be forced to go to Worlds if they don't want to.
 

aka_gerbil

Rooting for the Underdogs
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2,363
She did, but she’s also an example of YNW possibly being career-ending to an athlete. Viktoria Sinistina had a lung lesion after YNW. Bukin had significantly decreased lung capacity Hopefully, they fully recover, but permanent heart or lung damage from YNW could end athletic career early.
 

mjb52

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4,003
Bukin just won Russian Nationals and Vika and Nikita, while I am quite worried about them, did manage to skate in a show for a week and are back on ice training. Hopefully they should both be fine. Again, this is not to diminish anyone's concerns about the health of these athletes, who we all care about. It is just to say that there are never going to be 100% guarantees even long after this ***** is gone.
 

starrynight

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2,677
I think many are looking at this through a lens of skating being the sole fulcrum of life and society.

However from what Canadians have posted, movement of people from hotspots into lesser affected areas is a big concern there. I’m sure that precautions for communities at large are more important than a skating comp. Canadian skating has had all its big names retire anyway and for the most part a worlds team could easily be picked based off prior results and observations.
 

tony

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8,687
I think many are looking at this through a lens of skating being the sole fulcrum of life and society.
Not that this is going anywhere, but I think most people here are arguing the complete opposite.. unless you're referring to the people that have twisted this into Worlds not happening and/or snide comments about how US Nationals are still going.
 

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