Canadian Men 2017-18 season news & updates

Sylvia

Wishing I could go back to the Lake Placid JGP
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Japanfan

Well-Known Member
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24,052
Let the young’uns sort themselves out for the second spot cuz I am TeamKeeg (TeamMess?)
and would love to see this late bloomer carry the Canadian mens torch for a couple of seasons. :cheer2:

I've always enjoyed Keegan, but seen him as somewhat limited in range. However, he may grow and surprise me.
 

Sylvia

Wishing I could go back to the Lake Placid JGP
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Relevant quotes from Keegan's choreographer, Lance Vipond, from the final section of this post-Worlds article (link is cross-posted in the Canadian Ladies news thread): http://www.brantfordexpositor.ca/2018/03/26/osmond-is-perfection
When he was approached to coach the men's singles skater two years ago, Vipond wasn't sure the match would work.
"I had never really watched him," he said. "I knew who he was but I was never really drawn into his skating. It wasn't my esthetic. He was known as this really wild, crazy, fast, athletic guy who was rough around the edges. My kind of thing is a refined, nice tidy style."
But Vipond said yes and, after Messing came to Brantford for a couple of weeks, their relationship grew,
Messing, who turned 26 in January, made his first Olympics this year, finishing 12th in men's singles. And then at the world championships, he recorded a personal high score in his short program on his way to an eighth-place finish.
Vipond thinks Messing still has more to accomplish.
"There's still stuff that he hasn't tried out yet," he said.
"He's mastered the style that we've worked on the past two years but, I think with his attitude and his openness, he can take a few more steps up.
"He's just beginning his international career. This is the first year people have taken notice of him."
 

Seerek

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5,416

ChiquitaBanana

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,005
Of the "class of 1999", Nathan Chen and Dmitri Aliev have really raced ahead of the pack, including the likes of Roman and Alexander Petrov. I'm still hoping it's a case of patience being a virtue for Roman as far the next Olympic cycle goes.
OHhhhhhhh... Let Shetterbug having her moment of appreciation... not all the kids develop at the sam age, some have growth spur issue. Guys get better with years.
 

shutterbug

Well-Known Member
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1,914
OHhhhhhhh... Let Shetterbug having her moment of appreciation... not all the kids develop at the sam age, some have growth spur issue. Guys get better with years.
:lol: Thanks @ChiquitaBanana. I think what Nathan Chen has accomplished is remarkable in ANY age group. My wish for Roman this season is to start putting down consistent performances and gain some ground on his peers like Aliev. Ditto for Nam, Nic, Jo, Conrad etc. At least one of these boys needs to step up and grab this opportunity by the throat.
 

Seerek

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,416
Actually, I was totally for Roman being sent with Nam to 2015 Senior Worlds over Jeremy T. and Liam - Skate Canada starting anew at the beginning of an Olympic Cycle made more sense to me than sending other more seasoned seniors.
 

Sylvia

Wishing I could go back to the Lake Placid JGP
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64,001
Canadian men assigned to 2018 Egna Spring Trophy (April 5-8 in Italy):

Junior Men (2):
Beresford CLEMENTS [J20 at Challenge in Dec. 2017]
Matthew MARKELL [J1 at 2018 Nationals]

Adv. Novice Boys (3):
Brian CHIEM [N3]
Alexei GUINZBOURG [N1]
Aleksa RAKIC [N2]
 
Last edited:

skatetalent

New Member
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4
Will Skate Canada dump Nam Nyguen?
I think he has been dumped since the moment Patrick came back.
Nam was hit by particular “teenager”, physical, mental changes.
What he earned was by his international records not by skate Canada’s judges. His component scores were consistently same between domestic and internationalcompetitions. His technical was usually high far away from others in Canada he was lowball. However other athletes most got higher scores at domestic competition e.g. Liam, Eladje, Roman, Keegan, Nic... this shows Nam was not a cup of tea of Skate Canada, he got selected to do at international competitions because his world ranking his international records that others in Canada did not have it.
This sport is corrupted, not fair.
He gets high expectation from country from everyone, from community parents.... at young age
Look at the National results. He would deserve to be second... He would be selected to Olympic 2014 compared to Liam who could not land triple axel and was inflated by component scores to get third spot. Did Liam get dump at all? No I doubt about it.
Nam was selected to world 2014 not because Skate Canada liked him, because Skate Canada had no choice. At that year no one got the minimum scores for World but Nam. He got motivation and did well since then.
When Patrick came back, Nam and Patrick was at same event Skate Canada where Nam was a current champion, did he get attention? I guess not. He did well at age of 17, top 5 at the event. Skate Canada was passed by him to omit him to perform at Gala... I still remembered his coach got upset about this.
This year at Skate Canada International Keegan did not even make top 5 but he get bumped and all skate Canada athletes performed at Gala.
Just small thing could make a young athlete feel...
Of course it is Nam’s False as he should not get distract by these.
This sport is about encouragement, motivation. Once the athlete realize he/she is not supported his/her mentality would not be there for competition
Look at Alain, what Alain did and contribute to skate Canada
Above just my two cent thought, I usually support young talented athletes and do feel for them, their family who would pay extremely expensive price to trade and hope their kids to have good results.
 

mag

Well-Known Member
Messages
12,198
@skatetalent Saying Nam has not been supported by SC is, well, hysterical. Nam’s problems are twofold.

First, the training problems. He has terrible basic skating and is extemely slow. Yes, it appears he has tried to work on that but it is still no where near where it should be. He also appears to lack strength and conditioning training. This has become more apparent as he has grown. You need muscles to get up in the air and rotate, especially when you are on the tall side. Nam is 5’10” so about average height. He looks and skates much taller because of his lack of muscle and poor posture. If he was a women, even with equivalent jumps, he wouldn’t be making it out of Sections.

Second, he has an attitude problem and a family member with an attitude problem. Neither are endearing. People might be willing to put up with more when you are a 12 phenom, but at 20 it starts to wear a bit thin.

As for skating at galas, it was Nam who was chosen to skate on home ice at the 2010 Olympic gala eventhough he was not the reigning Junior National Champion. Liam Firus, the reigning Junior National Champion, also from Vancouver, was not even asked. There was absolutely no excuse for that.
 

barbarafan

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,816
@skatetalent Saying Nam has not been supported by SC is, well, hysterical. Nam’s problems are twofold.

First, the training problems. He has terrible basic skating and is extemely slow. Yes, it appears he has tried to work on that but it is still no where near where it should be. He also appears to lack strength and conditioning training. This has become more apparent as he has grown. You need muscles to get up in the air and rotate, especially when you are on the tall side. Nam is 5’10” so about average height. He looks and skates much taller because of his lack of muscle and poor posture. If he was a women, even with equivalent jumps, he wouldn’t be making it out of Sections.

Second, he has an attitude problem and a family member with an attitude problem. Neither are endearing. People might be willing to put up with more when you are a 12 phenom, but at 20 it starts to wear a bit thin.

As for skating at galas, it was Nam who was chosen to skate on home ice at the 2010 Olympic gala eventhough he was not the reigning Junior National Champion. Liam Firus, the reigning Junior National Champion, also from Vancouver, was not even asked. There was absolutely no excuse for that.

The above seems pretty much on and the fact they he is still coach-hopping shows that the coin still hasn't dropped, however @skatetalent is correct about Skate Canada's favourites but the year Chan came back at I believe Skate Canada Int'L Nam was not asked to skate at the Gala and he was reigning Senior national Champion and for the gala they normally invited the first few placements plus ALL Canadians. That was a slap in the face. When he was asked to skate in 2010 it was Skate Canada bragging about their child phenom nothing about placements.
 

mackiecat

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,306
@skatetalent Saying Nam has not been supported by SC is, well, hysterical. Nam’s problems are twofold.

First, the training problems. He has terrible basic skating and is extemely slow. Yes, it appears he has tried to work on that but it is still no where near where it should be. He also appears to lack strength and conditioning training. This has become more apparent as he has grown. You need muscles to get up in the air and rotate, especially when you are on the tall side. Nam is 5’10” so about average height. He looks and skates much taller because of his lack of muscle and poor posture. If he was a women, even with equivalent jumps, he wouldn’t be making it out of Sections.
.

So Nam wasn't at Sectional but at summer skate which was months earlier. He landed 4t+2t, fell on fully rotated 4s and landed 3 a in the short. You are saying he wouldn't make the top 16 at Sectionals in the ladies event??? His long a
Had 2 clean triple axels, one in combo with a 3t
 

barbarafan

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4,816
That may be so, but it was a huge slap in the face to Firus and he didn’t deserve that.
I was working incredible hrs at the time and only saw a few of the competition skate routines...nothing of the gala so did the reigning junior champions of all the disciplines appear in it or just Nam.
 

Sylvia

Wishing I could go back to the Lake Placid JGP
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64,001
Canadian men assigned to 2018 Egna Spring Trophy (April 5-8 in Italy):

Junior Men (2):
Beresford CLEMENTS [J20 at Challenge in Dec. 2017]
Matthew MARKELL [J1 at 2018 Nationals]

Adv. Novice Boys (3):
Brian CHIEM [N3]
Alexei GUINZBOURG [N1]
Aleksa RAKIC [N2]
Skate Canada's press release for Egna Spring Trophy: https://skatecanada.ca/2018/04/canadian-figure-skaters-in-italy-for-egna-spring-trophy/

This competition is being live streamed -- go to the thread in Kiss & Cry (should be open to all now for the next few months) for the starting orders, etc.: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/th...april-5-8-egna-neumarkt-bolzano-italy.103674/

Roman Sadovsky's latest vlog shows him working with David Wilson on his new SP (starting after the 4-min. mark): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymKT5O_j0cU
 

Ohyes

Well-Known Member
Messages
311
@skatetalent Saying Nam has not been supported by SC is, well, hysterical. Nam’s problems are twofold.

First, the training problems. He has terrible basic skating and is extemely slow. Yes, it appears he has tried to work on that but it is still no where near where it should be. He also appears to lack strength and conditioning training. This has become more apparent as he has grown. You need muscles to get up in the air and rotate, especially when you are on the tall side. Nam is 5’10” so about average height. He looks and skates much taller because of his lack of muscle and poor posture. If he was a women, even with equivalent jumps, he wouldn’t be making it out of Sections.

Second, he has an attitude problem and a family member with an attitude problem. Neither are endearing. People might be willing to put up with more when you are a 12 phenom, but at 20 it starts to wear a bit thin.

As for skating at galas, it was Nam who was chosen to skate on home ice at the 2010 Olympic gala eventhough he was not the reigning Junior National Champion. Liam Firus, the reigning Junior National Champion, also from Vancouver, was not even asked. There was absolutely no excuse for that.

I have heard his skating went downhill one of the reasons was because his father was way too controlling over him. Anywho, I still like watching Nam skate.
 

Sylvia

Wishing I could go back to the Lake Placid JGP
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64,001
"People filled Town Square Park in downtown Anchorage to celebrate Alaska's Olympians on Wednesday evening [April 4, 2018]. Cross-country skiers, a snowboarder and a figure skater took to the stage as the crowd cheered."
Keegan can be glimpsed in photo #6 in this gallery: https://www.adn.com/slideshow/sport...fellow-olympians-take-the-stage-in-anchorage/

"... Alaskan Keegan Messing, who competed in figure skating for Team Canada – he did a backflip on the stage." http://www.ktuu.com/content/sports/Alaskan-gold-medalist--478834893.html

(Cross-posted in Keegan's fan thread)
 

dramagrrl

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Messages
1,882
I wouldn't say that SC doesn't support Nam, but I do agree with the poster above who said that SC has almost always held Nam down in PCS, except in the season when Patrick was away and Nam was getting international attention. Yes, he doesn't really deserve high components marks because as people have pointed out, there are still a lot of areas of his basic skating skills that need work. However, I thought he definitely showed some major improvement at Canadians this year - I was there live and it was the first time that Nam's skating didn't seem significantly slower and smaller than others in the same group. At any other Nationals, a program like the LP he skated in Vancouver (with two quads and two 3As, one in combo with 3T, plus four other clean triples including two in combination) would definitely have gotten overblown "nationals inflation" PCS scores, but Nam was only fifth in PCS in the LP. He was barely ahead of Kevin Reynolds, whose LP was much sloppier and riddled with errors and URs that night. The SC judges were not cutting him the same kind of slack that they give some of their favourites even when they skate disastrously.

I don't know anything first hand about Nam's supposed attitude problem or overbearing parent(s). I do know that obviously, he has done himself no favours by not qualifying to the LP in two out of the four Worlds that SC has sent him to. I really hope he is able to replicate the performance he gave at Canadians this year and continue to show that kind of improvement and not let this year's Worlds result get to him.
 

Dobre

Well-Known Member
Messages
8,978
At any other Nationals, a program like the LP he skated in Vancouver (with two quads and two 3As, one in combo with 3T, plus four other clean triples including two in combination) would definitely have gotten overblown "nationals inflation" PCS scores, but Nam was only fifth in PCS in the LP.

Nathan had lower PCS scores at 2016 U.S. Nationals with 4 clean quads and 4 clean triples.
 

RoseRed

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,726
Nam's PCS in the FS was 82.62. Keegan's was 86.20. Both Nam and Keegan had one fall. Personally, Keegan having that amount of PCS advantage seems correct to me. He's faster/has better SS (more transitions too?), and is much stronger on the performance/interpretation side.
 

danceallnight

Member
Messages
35
I think he has been dumped since the moment Patrick came back.
Nam was hit by particular “teenager”, physical, mental changes.
What he earned was by his international records not by skate Canada’s judges. His component scores were consistently same between domestic and internationalcompetitions. His technical was usually high far away from others in Canada he was lowball. However other athletes most got higher scores at domestic competition e.g. Liam, Eladje, Roman, Keegan, Nic... this shows Nam was not a cup of tea of Skate Canada, he got selected to do at international competitions because his world ranking his international records that others in Canada did not have it.
This sport is corrupted, not fair.
He gets high expectation from country from everyone, from community parents.... at young age
Look at the National results. He would deserve to be second... He would be selected to Olympic 2014 compared to Liam who could not land triple axel and was inflated by component scores to get third spot. Did Liam get dump at all? No I doubt about it.
Nam was selected to world 2014 not because Skate Canada liked him, because Skate Canada had no choice. At that year no one got the minimum scores for World but Nam. He got motivation and did well since then.
When Patrick came back, Nam and Patrick was at same event Skate Canada where Nam was a current champion, did he get attention? I guess not. He did well at age of 17, top 5 at the event. Skate Canada was passed by him to omit him to perform at Gala... I still remembered his coach got upset about this.
This year at Skate Canada International Keegan did not even make top 5 but he get bumped and all skate Canada athletes performed at Gala.
Just small thing could make a young athlete feel...
Of course it is Nam’s False as he should not get distract by these.
This sport is about encouragement, motivation. Once the athlete realize he/she is not supported his/her mentality would not be there for competition
Look at Alain, what Alain did and contribute to skate Canada
Above just my two cent thought, I usually support young talented athletes and do feel for them, their family who would pay extremely expensive price to trade and hope their kids to have good results.
 

Sylvia

Wishing I could go back to the Lake Placid JGP
Messages
64,001
Egna Spring Trophy results for the Canadian men:

Junior Men:
Silver - Beresford CLEMENTS CAN 179.89 3 (62.06) 1 (117.83)
WD Matthew MARKELL CAN (2nd in SP with 63.00)
“I reached my goal by doing a clean free skate,” said Clements. “I got all my spins and just competed the way I trained. It was exciting to show off my abilities on the ice.”
This was Clements’ first career international assignment. He withdrew from an event earlier this season and didn’t qualify for the national championships.
“For this event I wanted to make sure I was fully healed,” said Clements. “I just trained really hard and focused on getting better. It was a slow process. It took about six months and required a lot of physio and days off.”
Matthew Markell of Prescott, Ont., second after the short program, withdrew from the free skate.
https://skatecanada.ca/2018/04/canadas-beresford-clements-wins-silver-at-egna-spring-trophy/

Advanced Novice Boys:
Gold - Aleksa RAKIC CAN 129.62 1 (43.39) 1 (86.23)
Silver - Brian CHIEM CAN 117.16 3 (37.72) 2 (79.44)
WD Alexei GUINZBOURG CAN (2nd in SP with 37.84)
Canada was 1-2 in novice men competition. Aleksa Rakic of Burnaby, B.C., won the gold medal with 129.62 points with Brian Chiem of Edmonton taking the silver with 117.16 and Maxim Knorr of Germany third at 110.70.
“I tried to replicate what I did in training,” said Rakic. “It was great to end that program on a high note. Now I’ll start preparing new programs with new elements with more jumps and more jumps in combination.”
Alec Guinzbourg of Kingston, Ont., second after the short program on Friday, withdrew.
https://skatecanada.ca/2018/04/medal-bonanza-for-canadian-novice-skaters-at-egna-spring-trophy/
 

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