Canadian Men 2017-18 season news & updates

Seerek

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Looks like next season will be a race to see who'll be first to get a quadruple lutz landed in competition between Messing, Orzel, Phan and maybe Gogolev.
 

aftershocks

Banned Member
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Of the "class of 1999", Nathan Chen and Dmitri Aliev have really raced ahead of the pack, including the likes of Roman and Alexander Petrov. I'm still hoping it's a case of patience being a virtue for Roman as far the next Olympic cycle goes.

I think Roman is coming along nicely. For some skaters it takes time to bloom competitively. It's fun getting to know Roman's personality via his vlogs. :)

Looks like next season will be a race to see who'll be first to get a quadruple lutz landed in competition between Messing, Orzel, Phan and maybe Gogolev.

So Roman is only working on quad sal and quad toe for now? I guess it makes sense to get those fully consistent first.
 
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Sylvia

Wishing I could go back to the Lake Placid JGP
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mag

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So Roman is only working on quad sal and quad toe for now? I guess it makes sense to get those fully consistent first.

I am sure Roman is working on more than that. Skaters spend a great deal of time doing jump exercises, landing forward, and landing on their butts before they are ready to show a clip of something new.
 

aftershocks

Banned Member
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^^ Yes, that's what I was wondering and querying in my previous post. I think Roman has appeared to be more confident with landing quads and he's gung-ho on quads being a positive, as he expounded on in one of his vlogs. :)

Therefore, Roman might also be considered in the running to one day successfully land a quad lutz.
 

VGThuy

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He had some of my favorite musical selections of the past two seasons and I really wanted to see his Mika SP and La La Land LP at the Olympics. I am grateful to just being able to see those programs when I could last season and I wish him all the best.
 

Habs

Well-Known Member
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5,501
I always enjoyed Liam's skating. His carriage and skating skills are divine. It's a shame he could never pull it together with the harder jumps - he would have been exceptional.
 

JasperBoy

Stayin inside
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4,629
Liam was always a pleasure to watch. He had some freak events in recent years (suspender failure, etc) that must have been very frustrating. No, not so good with the big jumps, but excellent technique. I can't wait to see the results of the consulting firm of Balde and Firus.
 

micaelis

New Member
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7
I'm new to FSU and also to figure skating in general. I got interested when in spring last year I was looking for men's bicycle road racing on YouTube and accidentally came onto a video of Yuzuru Hanyu's fs at 2017 Worlds. I was immediately fascinated and went on to explore as much as I could about him and since it's Hanyu there's a lot of 'much' out there. I generally hang out on Planet Hanyu but I recently became aware of Stephen Gogolev through a comment made by Brian Orser in an interview and as I've discovered more about Stephen I've begun to think he might be the Next Big Thing, at least as far as Canadian Men's skating goes. By that I mean a successor to Patrick, although Stephen's style seems to be developing in a very different direction.

What is really fascinating me is speculation about interaction between Stephen and Yuzu, particularly now that Javi, who it seems may have been a sort of mentor, has left TCC. In an interview Brian said that one of his biggest challenges with Stephen is keeping him in a challenging environment. As Stephen proceeded in previous seasons to just simply win everything in sight on the pre-novice and novice levels, and then, in Canada, skating on the junior levels, I think he finally decided that Stephen would have to train with the big boys at TCC. Exactly when that occurred I'm not sure but it is definitely the situation now. I have a feeling Brian probably switched Stephen to training with the elites when he was nailing all his triples and started doing credible quads. He almost certainly was doing it all last season when Stephen, still age-ineligible for international junior competition, was skating all his Canadian competitions on the senior level (coming in 10th at the Canadian senior nationals last season. Not bad for a kid who'd just turned 13.

Right now Yuzu is the senior skater (the oldest, although Jason Brown is just eight days younger) at TCC and also the one with the greatest longevity (now that Javi's gone) but it's also very likely that Yuzu and Stephen have gotten to know each other fairly well since they both arrived at TCC at roughly the same time. Stephen, of course, being a native English speaker (his family had immigrated to Canada from Russia) had no language problems, quite the reverse of Yuzu.

In terms of the interaction and influence the two might have on each other, I think in terms of Yuzu's influence on Stephen it's primarily across the board. Stephen is training next to a skater who has become quite literally a living legend and so there is that aura about Hanyu that is there even though Yuzu's amiable disposition does much to counter it. I think more significantly is that Stephen's training next to the man who now must be regarded as the most complete male skater out there. With Patrick gone Yuzu is now the king of the PCS and he's been challenging Patrick in that regard since they first started going head to head pre-Sochi. Stephen is seen right now as a jumper who, according to Brian, has all the quads in hand except the Axel, which no one has yet (the 4A is now the Holy Grail of the male skater fraternity) and so in Yuzu Stephen can see how true success is dependent on more than jumps. I have no doubt that Brian is pointing that out whenever the situation warrants.

Another important factor is that Yuzu is there as a model for Stephen as his visibility increases now that he is skating internationally on the junior level. It is a given that Stephen is probably one of the most-watched individuals entering the junior levels this year. Brian has been adroit in nurturing interest in his young prodigy. Like Yuzu, Stephen is being seen as a prodigy, a Mozart on skates, and it is fortunate that Yuzu is there to advise Stephen on how to deal with the increased attention from the media if he skates as well as most expect him to and starts tearing up the junior ranks.

As to what Stephen's presence means to Yuzu, I see it as a great motivator. Yuzu remembers what he was doing back when he was Stephen's age and knows that he was not doing any quads when he was twelve years old. He was still working on his 3A. So Yuzu, being the uber-competitor he is, almost certainly sees Stephen as a rival, just he saw Javi. Yuzu always plans well ahead and he knows that he is just two seasons away from having to deal with Stephen in head-to-head competition. If Yuzu has intentions for Beijing in 2022 he is already aware that Stephen might by that time be viewed as a likely podium presence. The one advantage Yuzu had in his first Olympics, unlike Stephen, is that at Sochi he was in his fourth season of skating senior level. For Stephen it will be only his second. He will still be the new kid on the block.

There is, I think, one thing which Yuzu has which Stephen has never had, at least not up until now, and that is how to deal with severe crisis. Yuzu has had to face several points in his career where it was quite possible his skating career could end, the most severe being the 2011 earthquake and tsunami. In that situation he was literally on the ice skating when all hell broke loose and he fled the rink with his skates still on fearing the building might come down on him. The loss of his training venue but also significantly the guilt he was feeling as he was finally able to resume his skating career (he felt he was avoiding the suffering by continuing to skate, particularly when he left to train in Toronto) was a situation which took some time to resolve. There was also the collision at the cup of China in Shanghai in 2014 which almost derailed his season then and most recently last year's injury which threatened his hope for a second Olympic gold or even his skating career itself. Stephen has not had any such crises and so he does not possess those depths of experience that so fuel Yuzu's skating.

What I am most interested in all this is to see how and to what degree Stephen might replace the departed Javier Fernandez in regards to Yuzu. There is almost exactly ten years difference in their ages (both have December birthdays, 1994 and 2004), effectively half a generation. Stephen has known Canadian culture his entire life, Yuzu only since his mid-teens. But they have trained under the same coach since their arrival at almost the same time back in 2012 and in the same classes at least since last summer, quite probably even earlier, depending on how early Brian thought he needed to get Stephen into a more advanced and challenging training situation. We do know that Yuzu's private life is very private. Away from the ice he spends almost all his time pursuing his studies or playing video games. At this point I've been able to discover nothing about Stephen's life off the ice. Brian goes to great lengths to make sure his skaters have as much privacy in their lives away from TCC as they desire.

Whatever relationship is developing between the two, there is no chance that it will be of the same nature as Yuzu's with Javi, primarily because of the age difference. But Yuzu is well aware of the fact that barring something unforeseen Stephen is in the early stages of a world class skating career, one which will most likely lead to actual rivalry between the two of them. I'm sure Stephen has the same awareness. How they work out the situation of the two training together and competing against each is something I'm most interested in seeing. Things are going to be interesting at TCC.
 

4rkidz

plotting, planning and travelling
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@micaelis interesting observations. Let’s see how he develops first as we have been down this path before with Nam..
 

victorskid

Happily ignoring pontificators & know-it-alls
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Stephen will be competing at the Junior level internationally this year - the first year that he is eligible. Let's give him a chance to get his "feet wet" at that and see how the future evolves.

By the way, the post from @micaelis actually belongs in the 2018-19 season thread, I believe.
 

micaelis

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@micaelis interesting observations. Let’s see how he develops first as we have been down this path before with Nam..

I agree that we have to see how things develop, however there are significant differences between Brian's experience with Nam and those with Stephen. Nam came to Brian at age 14 when he had already been competing for some five seasons at lower levels and then junior level. Stephen began training under Brian at age seven and in fact for all practical purposes Brian has been Stephen's only trainer. Brian has acknowledged the problems Nam had at TCC and he does not deny that TCC was somewhat to blame although he did say some of the problems were attributable to Nam.

Basically Brian and the TCC team and environment have been the only coaches Stephen has had and Brian learned a great deal from his experience with Nam and is applying it when handling Stephen. He is being extremely cautious in regards to potential injury and regulates Stephen's jumping very closely. Additionally he has prepared himself and others (much of that, according to Brian, was a result of Tracy's dealing with her own teenage children and the advice she passed on to him) to handle Stephen's hormone-induced mental instability.

I do, however, agree that things could go badly with Stephen as he embarks on both his junior level competition and moves into the high season of his adolescence. Each teenager is different, however, and we should not expect that things will progress with Stephen as they did with Nam. Only time will tell. We should not, however, expect that TCC has not altered itself to handle future developments with young Mr Gogolev. Brian has already indicated that they are acting proactively in order to head off problems before they emerge and that might be all that is needed to keep Stephen on an even keel these next few years. My main point here is that right now as things stand Stephen might be in the beginning stages of a spectacular figure-skating career and as my earlier post indicated, much of what occurs in how he handles his skating and his life if that indeed happens could be significantly effected by his relationship with Yuzu who having passed through adolescence and attaining iconic status can tell Stephen when giving advice - 'Been there, done that'.
 

barbarafan

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Where did you get this from "Stephen's hormone-induced mental instability"
I have never seen any nonsense like this. He is being treated carefully physically as he is in the middle of his growing stage and could experience injury if he is allowed to jump too much(or sometimes at all) He was fine before he started growing and when he is done he will be fine again (unless he ends up very tall)and the speed and strength from the new body will only enhance his former talent.
 

Sylvia

Wishing I could go back to the Lake Placid JGP
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64,001
Stephen will be competing at the Junior level internationally this year - the first year that he is eligible. Let's give him a chance to get his "feet wet" at that and see how the future evolves.

By the way, the post from @micaelis actually belongs in the 2018-19 season thread, I believe.
I don't think it belongs in the Canadian men's current season news thread, actually.

My two cents is that @micaelis (or someone else) might consider starting a thread in the Trash Can forum to discuss the international skaters at the Toronto Cricket Club that could also be a fan-type thread.
 
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victorskid

Happily ignoring pontificators & know-it-alls
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I don't think it belongs in the Canadian men's current season news thread, actually.

My two cents is that @micaelis (or someone else) might consider starting a thread in the Trash Can forum to discuss the international skaters at the Toronto Cricket Club that could also be a fan-type thread.

I agree - this is not news but personal opinion. My original point was more that it wasn't to do with last season. Perhaps an Admin could lock this thread?
 

micaelis

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Where did you get this from "Stephen's hormone-induced mental instability"
I have never seen any nonsense like this. He is being treated carefully physically as he is in the middle of his growing stage and could experience injury if he is allowed to jump too much(or sometimes at all) He was fine before he started growing and when he is done he will be fine again (unless he ends up very tall)and the speed and strength from the new body will only enhance his former talent.

I did not mean it in terms of physical training. I know very well how careful Brian is being with Stephen. In one interview he mentioned that at the first sign of pain in ankle, knee or elsewhere it's no jumps for two weeks. I was referring to the fact that adolescents, in adjusting to what's going on with their world as they are becoming 'grown-ups' are faced with a lot of social and psychological anxieties that can result in what seems to others, particularly older others, to be irrational. Part of the problem Brian had with Nam was in the attitude he was sporting then. Particularly because of Tracy's input, since she had 'teenagers' in her family, Brian was able to finally realize that teenagers can be irrational and the best way to cope with it is to go with the flow as much as possible. In using the term 'hormone-induced mental instability' I was just spotlighting that, although I deliberately exaggerated using the terminology I did. It was simply to make the point that there's more to growing up than just getting bigger. Mental changes are also taking place and no athletic trainer dealing with adolescents should simply confine the training to matters physical. What I'm hoping, and because Tracy is on the scene, what I'm expecting is that Brian is ready to deal with Stephen's psyche as much as with his physique. He does not want to have a 'Nam' repeat.
 

overedge

G.O.A.T.
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and psychological anxieties that can result in what seems to others, particularly older others, to be irrational. Part of the problem Brian had with Nam was in the attitude he was sporting then. Particularly because of Tracy's input, since she had 'teenagers' in her family, Brian was able to finally realize that teenagers can be irrational and the best way to cope with it is to go with the flow as much as possible.

Unless you are Brian yourself, you really don't have much basis to be making these inferences about Brian's reasoning and thought processes.
 

ChiquitaBanana

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2,005
I did not mean it in terms of physical training. I know very well how careful Brian is being with Stephen. In one interview he mentioned that at the first sign of pain in ankle, knee or elsewhere it's no jumps for two weeks. I was referring to the fact that adolescents, in adjusting to what's going on with their world as they are becoming 'grown-ups' are faced with a lot of social and psychological anxieties that can result in what seems to others, particularly older others, to be irrational. Part of the problem Brian had with Nam was in the attitude he was sporting then. Particularly because of Tracy's input, since she had 'teenagers' in her family, Brian was able to finally realize that teenagers can be irrational and the best way to cope with it is to go with the flow as much as possible. In using the term 'hormone-induced mental instability' I was just spotlighting that, although I deliberately exaggerated using the terminology I did. It was simply to make the point that there's more to growing up than just getting bigger. Mental changes are also taking place and no athletic trainer dealing with adolescents should simply confine the training to matters physical. What I'm hoping, and because Tracy is on the scene, what I'm expecting is that Brian is ready to deal with Stephen's psyche as much as with his physique. He does not want to have a 'Nam' repeat.

I don’t know how to put it, but you are way too involved in Stephen’s skating based only on online information, for someone who barely knew skating few months ago.
 
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barbarafan

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4,816
I did not mean it in terms of physical training. I know very well how careful Brian is being with Stephen. In one interview he mentioned that at the first sign of pain in ankle, knee or elsewhere it's no jumps for two weeks. I was referring to the fact that adolescents, in adjusting to what's going on with their world as they are becoming 'grown-ups' are faced with a lot of social and psychological anxieties that can result in what seems to others, particularly older others, to be irrational. Part of the problem Brian had with Nam was in the attitude he was sporting then. Particularly because of Tracy's input, since she had 'teenagers' in her family, Brian was able to finally realize that teenagers can be irrational and the best way to cope with it is to go with the flow as much as possible. In using the term 'hormone-induced mental instability' I was just spotlighting that, although I deliberately exaggerated using the terminology I did. It was simply to make the point that there's more to growing up than just getting bigger. Mental changes are also taking place and no athletic trainer dealing with adolescents should simply confine the training to matters physical. What I'm hoping, and because Tracy is on the scene, what I'm expecting is that Brian is ready to deal with Stephen's psyche as much as with his physique. He does not want to have a 'Nam' repeat.

You are talking about apples and oranges....Stephen is very dedicated, hardworking and responsible. Nam loved the friends and attention but didn't like hard work and apparently his father encouraged him in his attitude. He was wasting everyone's time.
 

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