Budapest Trophy 2024 - Women's SP & FS

[Karen-W]

Well, they tried, but they couldn't knock her down and out of first!

 

[Sylvia]

Final standings:

1 Alysa LIU USA 192.77 1 2
2 Kimmy REPOND SUI 190.09 3 1
3 Lorine SCHILD FRA 179.70 5 3
4 Lindsay THORNGREN USA 179.45 2 4
5 Madeline SCHIZAS CAN 175.71 4 5
6 Julia SAUTER ROU 157.75 6 11
7 Katinka Anna ZSEMBERY HUN 153.61 8 8
8 Janna JYRKINEN FIN 152.34 7 9
9 Niki WORIES NED 148.98 11 6
10 Kristina ISAEV GER 142.29 10 10
11 Ema DOBOSZOVA SVK 140.58 12 12
12 Kristen SPOURS GBR 138.93 17 7
13 Regina SCHERMANN HUN 132.95 9 15
14 Sara FRANZI SUI 126.79 13 14
15 Laura SZCZESNA POL 122.36 15 16
16 Daria ZSIRNOV HUN 121.74 14 17
17 Gian-Quen ISAACS RSA 120.37 19 13
18 Sarah Marie PESCH GER 114.04 16 18
19 Eva-Lotta KIIBUS EST 99.25 18 19
20 Cintia SZABO HUN 86.13 20 20

Pl.	Name	Nation	TSS =	TES +		PCS +	CO	PR	SK	Ded. -	StN.
1​	Kimmy REPOND	SUI	124.05​	61.57​		62.48​	7.85​	7.70​	7.85​	0.00​	#18​
2​	Alysa LIU	USA	123.94​	59.19​		64.75​	8.15​	8.15​	7.95​	0.00​	#20​
3​	Lorine SCHILD	FRA	116.22​	61.15​		56.07​	7.20​	6.95​	6.85​	1.00​	#16​
4​	Lindsay THORNGREN	USA	113.26​	50.11​		63.15​	8.15​	7.70​	7.80​	0.00​	#19​
5​	Madeline SCHIZAS	CAN	110.50​	52.97​		57.53​	7.35​	7.20​	7.00​	0.00​	#17​
6​	Niki WORIES	NED	101.76​	53.24​		49.52​	6.15​	6.20​	6.20​	1.00​	#10​
7​	Kristen SPOURS	GBR	100.77​	52.71​		48.06​	6.05​	6.15​	5.80​	0.00​	#4​
8​	Katinka Anna ZSEMBERY	HUN	99.87​	49.01​		50.86​	6.20​	6.40​	6.45​	0.00​	#13​
9​	Janna JYRKINEN	FIN	95.08​	44.95​		51.13​	6.50​	6.30​	6.35​	1.00​	#14​
10​	Kristina ISAEV	GER	94.98​	45.32​		51.66​	6.45​	6.45​	6.45​	2.00​	#11​
11​	Julia SAUTER	ROU	94.77​	42.97​		51.80​	6.50​	6.45​	6.45​	0.00​	#15​
12​	Ema DOBOSZOVA	SVK	93.58​	49.66​		43.92​	5.45​	5.30​	5.70​	0.00​	#9​
13​	Gian-Quen ISAACS	RSA	83.24​	46.93​		38.31​	4.90​	4.60​	4.85​	2.00​	#2​
14​	Sara FRANZI	SUI	81.43​	34.43​		47.00​	5.85​	5.80​	5.95​	0.00​	#8​
15​	Regina SCHERMANN	HUN	81.36​	35.50​		46.86​	5.85​	5.70​	6.00​	1.00​	#12​
16​	Laura SZCZESNA	POL	78.60​	36.34​		43.26​	5.50​	5.10​	5.60​	1.00​	#6​
17​	Daria ZSIRNOV	HUN	77.43​	37.18​		41.25​	5.35​	4.85​	5.25​	1.00​	#7​
18​	Sarah Marie PESCH	GER	73.35​	34.23​		43.12​	5.45​	5.25​	5.45​	4.00​	#5​
19​	Eva-Lotta KIIBUS	EST	62.09​	25.17​		37.92​	4.95​	4.15​	5.10​	1.00​	#3​
20​	Cintia SZABO	HUN	49.68​	19.17​		31.51​	4.10​	3.65​	4.05​	1.00​	#1​

 

[sk8nlizard]

3t in combo was under for sure, sal after euler was as well

I thought the 3T looked > and the 3S looked >>. I felt when the music picked up that’s where I noticed the stamina issues, that step sequence was SLOW. Then the jumps started to get tight.
I’ve never been a huge Alysa fan. That said, she is clearly having a good time, the dress is gorgeous and she seems to have always been able to handle nerves. More competition is great for US Ladies, so I’m all for it.

Also, I think a few things that hurt Lindsay are that she looks miserable and skates extremely slowly. Also, her jumps go very up and down which make the short rotations even more obvious. I did like this dress and she’s a great spinner.

 

[Coco]

I am mad about my girl missing a bronze by .25.

ISU needs to look at the big picture, compare SP and FS for Schild and Thorngren and ask themselves what we're doing.

Rotations getting called correctly depend on so many variables, it's absurd that the call has so much impact. Look at the whole trajectory of the jump in addition to everything else, ot get more freaking cameras and review all jumps.

 

[zigzig]

Europe has the biggest pool of callers to draw from and they’re often very protective of skaters from their preferred countries...it's total bull.

 

[Rukia]

Wow looking at protocols Lindsay was absolutely massacred. Got some kind of call on every single jump except the 2a and 2a-2t-1t which I thought was the worst one lol

 

[sk9tingfan]

I understand why Alysa selected a kitschy, upbeat music selection since it was her first competition back. Generally I like a selection that has more tension and drama for her, but this one served her need to not be so serious for a comeback. And you could not have had two costume designs that were more diametically opposed.At first i thought the FS costume was a bit much, but it's a testament to the disco era.

 

[Karen-W]

Europe has the biggest pool of callers to draw from and they’re often very protective of skaters from their preferred countries...it's total bull.

Yeah, and I'm sure it's not sitting well with some of those feds that the US women are experiencing a resurgence this season and, after the Japanese jr women, dominating the SB top 24.

Current SB Top 24 - 3 Japanese sr women; 5 Japanese jr women; 5 US sr women; 1 US jr woman; 2 Korean jr women; 1 Korean sr woman (and not even their best one - Ahsun Yun); 2 Chinese jr women; 1 Kazakh sr woman; and Gubanova, Kaiser, Gutmann - and now Repond.

 

[PRlady]

Our catsitter was here to meet the cat so I was distracted but both Alisa and Lindsay are far more polished than Schild. Repond is a good skater but even I could see the URs. I would have had the American girls first and second and I’m generally not a homer.

 

[Karen-W]

Our catsitter was here to meet the cat so I was distracted but both Alisa and Lindsay are far more polished than Schild. Repond is a good skater but even I could see the URs. I would have had the American girls first and second and I’m generally not a homer.

Yeah - they were unnecessarily harsh on Lindsay's jumps. It's not as if Lorine's jumps were clean either. I'm working on uploading the FS of the top 6.

 

[Sylvia]

FS protocols: https://hunskate.hu/external/mukorc...------FNL-000100--_JudgesDetailsperSkater.pdf

Alysa’s FS: https://x.com/moozuru/status/1845474424335859720

Kimmy’s FS: https://x.com/moozuru/status/1845470558185763150

 

[Private Citizen]

The calls for Thorngren are absolutely fair. I thought she was gifted in the short, where she should have had an < and e, with -3 on both passes.

Her jumps are fundamentally flawed in a way that's never going to improve. She has a very squatty air position that makes her prone to underrotation on just about every jump. She also lips and toe axels. Much like Karen Chen's, her jumps should start from -3 if "clean" and go down from there. Her only hope is ever going to be a generous caller. Maybe she's skating for the fun of it, but she'll need to totally start over from single jumps on up if she wants to be internationally competitive. Her technique issues are the most serious of any US woman's and will never fly with an international panel.

 

[Karen-W]

Free Skates -

Liu - https://rumble.com/v5ij4i5-liu-budapest-trophy-2024-fs.html
Repond - https://rumble.com/v5ij66l-repond-budapest-trophy-2024-fs.html
Schild - https://rumble.com/v5ij7hg-schild-budapest-trophy-2024-fs.html
Thorngren - https://rumble.com/v5ij5i5-thorngren-budapest-trophy-2024-fs.html
Schizas - https://rumble.com/v5ij6xh-schizas-budapest-trophy-2024-fs.html
Sauter - https://rumble.com/v5ij83p-sauter-budapest-trophy-2024-fs.html

 

[Karen-W]

The calls for Thorngren are absolutely fair. I thought she was gifted in the short, where she should have had an < and e, with -3 on both passes.

Her jumps are fundamentally flawed in a way that's never going to improve. She has a very squatty air position that makes her prone to underrotation on just about every jump. She also lips and toe axels. Much like Karen Chen's, her jumps should start from -3 if "clean" and go down from there. Her only hope is ever going to be a generous caller. Maybe she's skating for the fun of it, but she'll need to totally start over from single jumps on up if she wants to be internationally competitive. Her technique issues are the most serious of any US woman's and will never fly with an international panel.

Okay, so, here's my question for you - do you think the calling for Repond or Schild was equally fair?

If we grant to you that Lindsay's calls were correct and fair, then please, take your same microscope to Kimmy & Lorine because their jumps didn't look any better than hers in real time - and I haven't gone back to re-watch yet - but I think that's where most of us are taking issue with the calling today. It's bullshit to take a microscope to ONE skater but not to the others. It was VERY noticeable while waiting for their scores that this panel was taking WAY longer to look at every jump for both Lindsay & Alysa and that they had NOT done that with either Lorine or Kimmy.

 

[sk9tingfan]

"All callers are political, but some are more political than others".

Additional adage, "All technical specialists are special, but some are more special than others".

 

[jlai]

Liu's tes was good considering 3 issues with jumps.
I would have knocked it down a teeny bit more, but I would do that with the others also.

 

[sk9tingfan]

I'm prefacing the next question with the understanding that not every skater has the option of moving due to financial and/or other considerations.

Does anyone have any opinion on a change of coach needed for Lindsay? I know we've already had this discussion with respect to Isabeau.

 

[Rukia]

Liu's tes was good considering 3 issues with jumps.
I would have knocked it down a teeny bit more, but I would do that with the others also.

What else would you have called? She got < on the 3t in combo, q on the 3z before the euler, << on the 3 sal after the euler, and q on her last 2a.

 

[Private Citizen]

Okay, so, here's my question for you - do you think the calling for Repond or Schild was equally fair?

Yes, no other skater on the scene today has the type of squat air position that Thorngren has. The calls look right to me from a relative standpoint as well.

Liu's problems on the combos were visible to the naked eye, and the only other call she got was a q. The panel may have spent a long time reviewing her elements, but she wasn't dinged on anything beyond the obvious.

Repond has the type of technique where she'll usually fall v. stand up if she underrotates. Still, she received one !, one q, and one underrotation.

Schild received an "e" on her flip, combined with a q, with many judges giving this jump a -5. Thorngren was also in "e" and -5 territory, but received the lesser ! and predominantly -3. She also received another underrotation call.

Genuinely don't see any bias here, just acknowledgement of the brutal truth.

 

[Debbie S]

Wow looking at protocols Lindsay was absolutely massacred. Got some kind of call on every single jump except the 2a and 2a-2t-1t which I thought was the worst one lol

Basically the same calls she got at Mid-Atlantics, from a U.S. panel.

 

[honey]

Pretty much every single one of Lindsay’s jumps were visibly under in real time. Soooo. Yeah, not getting the bitching here about unfair calls. Her technique is poor and always has been. She skates slowly and this makes things worse. Some power in her skating would help her get around some of the poor technique. And as glorious as the short is, this free skate music is abysmal. She lacks personality and this is highlighting that.

I am surprised that Kimmy didn’t get a couple q’s, but her rotations were not anywhere near as egregiously under as Lindsay’s today.

Time will tell if Alysa can clean things up on rotations. My guess is it will come down to the day and the caller with her, but the triple triple is probably always going to get scrutinized. The skating is beautiful though and I’ll root for her.

I do hope with so many of the us women having rotation issues that at nationals a blind eye isn’t turned to it completely. I have full expectations that they will indeed pretend everyone rotated everything and let the chips fall where they may with that, but an international panel may judge a U.S. women’s event quite differently.

 

[SkateFanBerlin]

Somewhere in Lindsay is a great skater. Today she looked slow - maybe part of problems with jumps. Also not much going on between elements - more to add later I guess. She`s sophisticated with great lines. I like her in this new bigger size.

 

[SkateFanBerlin]

Callers were particular with most of the women in the final group. US ladies won`t have so much a problem with callers as Japanese ladies who so often skate clean. Hopefully more in shape for the GP assignments.

 

[peibeck]

Watched the videos of the top 5 and in portions you can't even see the jump landing because the feet are out of view, so our armchair callers are giving me some laughs. Everyone seemed to have some issues, and overall the results didn't seem heinous. Schild isn't my cuppa, but Thorngren had some "q" issues even to my eye. (Although I don't think her tech is as dreadful as some posters here.) A coaching change for her and/or Isabeau would likely result in a whole lost season or two relearning jumps from scratch though, so the chances of that seem unlikely at best.

 

[jlai]

What else would you have called? She got < on the 3t in combo, q on the 3z before the euler, << on the 3 sal after the euler, and q on her last 2a.

I am just thinking that scores are a couple points high across the top 4 (except Lindsay). That's all.

 

[Sylvia]

Women's off ice medal ceremony: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbynwfFQKXM

ETA:

Kimmy's FS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5--OSjAgNM
Alysa's FS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlkuFequdY8
Lorine's FS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9joGnlLP4yk
Lindsay's FS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_KD9GlPmSM
Madeline's FS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeeSGMZByk4

Lorine's SP: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCrC0Xbeuj4

 

[SkateFanBerlin]

Was strange scoring on Schizas. No < or << but some didn`t even look like 3`s. Two foot landings. Unchecked exits. Just saying scoring seems strange.

 

[Miezekatze]

Watched the videos of the top 5 and in portions you can't even see the jump landing because the feet are out of view, so our armchair callers are giving me some laughs.

That was my first irritated thought when i read here and then watched the Top 2 videos.

With Kimmy it even were 2 jumps where the skates were cut off on the landing.

Really enjoyed Alysa and Kimmy and i think quite good shape for early in the season. Even though as a program i prefer Kimmys SP. In Alysas case i like both programs!

 

[Sylvia]

Judith D’s post-skate interviews & mixed zone quotes for Golden Skate:

Alysa video after her FS: https://www.instagram.com/reel/DBEdklhInuA/
Video after her SP: https://www.instagram.com/reel/DBByJDsITI5/
Full FS filmed by GS in the audience (also posted in her news thread in GSD): https://www.instagram.com/reel/DBEWrYyo_Bg/

Kimmy video after her FS: https://www.instagram.com/reel/DBEhJbvu3T9/
Quotes after SP: https://www.instagram.com/p/DBBzfHXI1xr/

Lorine’s quotes after her FS: https://www.instagram.com/p/DBEkSc0Ogex/

Niki Wories video (back after a 2.5 year absence) after her FS: https://www.instagram.com/reel/DBEOklxITXY/
Clip of her SP: https://www.instagram.com/reel/DBB3koZoQBa/
She got the Europeans TES minimum combined score here.

 

[zigzig]

Hm - if the caller was as strict with Kimmie as the other skaters she should have gotten at least a q on the 2A in her 3Lo+2A seq and a << on her 3F.