Bobrova and Soloviev out of Worlds

[hanca]

The thing that's odd to me is that B&S immedeately said there was foul play. They could have just waited for the results of the investigation or stated that it could have been a mistake, but Dima was quite clear in what he said

Well, if you knew that you strictly sticked to the rules and yet your drug tests came positive, you would also immediately think that it is foul play, because how else it would get into your body (if you knew for certain that you didn't take it yourself)? I can understand why she would immediately come to this conclusion.

 

[IceIceBaby]

When do we know how long is her ban?

 

[MarieM]

She'll have at least a year I think. IF it's more, her career is done

 

[taz'smum]

When do we know how long is her ban?

If it is the same as for Galyeta, then you will have to wait another 5 months to have the final decision on the length of her ban.

http://static.isu.org/media/105156/...ciplinary-commission-ms-anastasia-galyeta.pdf

 

[Xela M]

Well, if you knew that you strictly sticked to the rules and yet your drug tests came positive, you would also immediately think that it is foul play, because how else it would get into your body (if you knew for certain that you didn't take it yourself)? I can understand why she would immediately come to this conclusion.

I think he might know more than us. He wouldn't have just said "people are trying to shut us up" with unfair play and sabotage without having a specific group of people in mind. I find it quite interesting (and awful )

 

[MacMadame]

@MacMadame Maria Sharapova said she had no idea that the rule change was happening.

Because she couldn't be bothered to read the email she was sent. Not because no one attempted to educate her.

Though I don't believe this, myself. I think her team knew.

This drug only has a half life of 6 hours, so it takes less than a day to get out of your system.

Well that's what we believe, but it sounds the drug is detectable for longer than people think. Whether they took it when it was legal or a few days after it was banned is unclear since we don't know when all these failed tests were taken. So maybe some athletes continued to take it in 2016 thinking it would be out of their systems in time and were wrong but others took it on Dec. 31st when it was legal thinking it would be gone by Jan 1st and it wasn't.

Regardless of why Sharapova started taking it, my guess is that she continued taking it for non-medical reasons. I mean, I believe she has a serious heart condition like I believe all of Bob Kersee's athletes had asthma, you know?

And all of Alberto Salazar's athletes have hypothyroidism.

Vitamin shots? No.

"Vitamin shots"? Some do, but, as far as I know, not in general.

The athletes I know (not in skating though) are crazy for their supplements. Which include vitamins and minerals. They would take shots of stuff that will be broken down by stomach acid. B12 is very commonly given by injection. Btw, medlonium is one that can't be taken by mouth because stomach acid breaks it down into something that doesn't work.

Which means no one slipped it into Bobrova's food.

What kind of risks would be involved in using this drug regularly/occasionally? I'm genuinely curious - as I noted yesterday, my focus tends to be on how great a risk a drug might pose to athletes rather than how much it might enhance their performance/ability to train.

Here is an article I found that was written after Sept. 2015 but before Jan 1st that talks about this drug and 2 others and questions why this one is banned but the others aren't.

http://roidvisor.com/performance-enhancing-drugs-used-by-elite-athletes-that-are-surprisingly-legal/

You will note the source is one that I expect to be a bit pro-PEDs and anti-WADA. But I googled medlonium side-effects and found the same info -- mild drug with few side-effect -- on more mainstream medical sites. I found this article interesting because it shows (a) what athletes are willing to do to get an edge and (b) how inconsistent WADA can be about what is and isn't banned.

 

[MsZem]

The athletes I know (not in skating though) are crazy for their supplements. Which include vitamins and minerals. They would take shots of stuff that will be broken down by stomach acid. B12 is very commonly given by injection. Btw, medlonium is one that can't be taken by mouth because stomach acid breaks it down into something that doesn't work.

...

Here is an article I found that was written after Sept. 2015 but before Jan 1st that talks about this drug and 2 others and questions why this one is banned but the others aren't.

http://roidvisor.com/performance-enhancing-drugs-used-by-elite-athletes-that-are-surprisingly-legal/

You will note the source is one that I expect to be a bit pro-PEDs and anti-WADA. But I googled medlonium side-effects and found the same info -- mild drug with few side-effect -- on more mainstream medical sites. I found this article interesting because it shows (a) what athletes are willing to do to get an edge and (b) how inconsistent WADA can be about what is and isn't banned.

I've had B12 injections, and they are evil, you couldn't pay me to have one unless it was a medical emergency. Surely there are less painful ways to enhance one's performance (in a WADA-approved manner)?

Thanks for the link, will take a look later.

 

[Carolla5501]

What kind of risks would be involved in using this drug regularly/occasionally? I'm genuinely curious - as I noted yesterday, my focus tends to be on how great a risk a drug might pose to athletes rather than how much it might enhance their performance/ability to train.


So if her son were at a competitive event in a foreign country, she'd rather have him receive no treatment than be treated by the team doctor who is the regular physician for a number of athletes on the team? .

Depends.

If her son needs medication for something he brings it with him, provides to the physician if it is required to be provided by the physician and verifies it's his prior to receiving it. If her son needed Emergency treatment (which there is no way this was "emergent") then of course it's fine. But anything else would be a "no" So if the physician was there but not really briefed, trained on her son's condition then it's a no go. As I said they know a kid who got cold meds from a "team" doctor. (One of the other teams at the event had him there) The meds turned out to include banned substances. Since this child has Olympic level talent the coaches have been very firm on this type of thing. If you don't bring it, provide it to the MD and know it's been approved by your team just say no!

(And she said her son has been offered some interesting things by people in the sport claiming to want to "help" LOL! )

 

[Jeschke]

Sharapova's case is VERY sketchy.

This is the highest earning female athlete in the world whose whole career (and hundreds of millions of dollars in sponsorship contracts) depend on her NOT failing doping tests. And she expects us to believe that all that was put at risk because she forgot to click on an email link from WADA. I will never believe it.

It's Maria goddammit, of course I do
#trainwreckpova

 

[aftershocks]

If it is the same as for Galyeta, then you will have to wait another 5 months to have the final decision on the length of her ban.

http://static.isu.org/media/105156/...ciplinary-commission-ms-anastasia-galyeta.pdf

In that case, I wonder would the length of time imposed be retroactive?

 

[patinart]

No way. He's a hard worker, she's a diva. Won't work.

It's off topic, but my dream pairing would Ilinykh/Bukin.

While this whole thing is quite sad and I really don't want to see Bobrova/Soloviev's career end over this, if she is banned for a long period, I would like to see him keep skating... even if it is with a different lady. Not sure who he could partner up with, but he is a very talented skater.

That being said, I hope the ban is short and that we see B/S come back sooner rather than later.

 

[taz'smum]

In that case, I wonder would the length of time imposed be retroactive?

Yes, it would be retroactive. If Bobrova was to get just a 6 month ban, she would be free almost instantly.

 

[Loves_Shizuka]

It's off topic, but my dream pairing would Ilinykh/Bukin.

Haven't they already given that a go?

 

[patinart]

I think they did when they were quite young. It was the same situation when she was with Katsalapov as well. They broke up only to be reunited a short time later.

 

[Rock2]

Tonya Harding?

I knew there would be something I'm forgetting!

Ya, she created a whole new category of way to, um, work around the system.
That counts.
Anything else at least within last 20 years?

 

[CassAgain]

If I recall correctly, after the free dance at Europeans Katia was missing for a good portion of the fishbowl kiss and cry scene. Guess she was in doping control.

 

[acraven]

I don't discount the slight possibility that Bobrova's vitamin/supplement mixture was doctored intentionally, but that would not have been a sure way to the get the team banned (even if you were confident they would medal). If it is the case that only one member of a pair or dance team is tested, to be certain of a failed drug test, you'd somehow need to get the drug into Nikita as well.

 

[Ka3sha]

Besides feeling sorry for Katya and Dima, I also am very sad about Zhulin
Hope that this situation won't affect on their coaching team and other pairs at the rink

 

[Excidra]

I can't believe people feel sorry for her. Look she took a banned drug, with the knowledge that what she took was a banned substance. She should lose her bronze medal from European.

I have no sympathy for athletes who dont play fair. Hopefully B/S will receive a 2 yearS ban from the sport.

 

[love_skate2011]

according to AP

the ban for melodonium, a newly banned drug listed by WADA is 1 year.

 

[casken]

If I recall correctly, after the free dance at Europeans Katia was missing for a good portion of the fishbowl kiss and cry scene. Guess she was in doping control.

She wasn't there when P&C's marks came up, but was back by the time S&K's marks came up. But you're probably right.

 

[allezfred]

She should lose her bronze medal from European.

Oh there is no doubt she will lose the bronze medal. It's only a matter of time for the decision.

 

[Kasey]

Devastated for B&S; if she is guilty, well then, devastated for S, but still hurt for her because she seems like one of the nicer athletes I've met. Just a crappy situation all around, whether she is guilty or not.

 

[Xela M]

I can't believe people feel sorry for her. Look she took a banned drug, with the knowledge that what she took was a banned substance. She should lose her bronze medal from European.

I have no sympathy for athletes who dont play fair. Hopefully B/S will receive a 2 yearS ban from the sport.

How's the weather up there?

She knew the drug was banned. Yes.

But the question is, did she knowingly take it? And so far it's not at all clear.

 

[Lacey]

Sharapova's case is VERY sketchy.

This is the highest earning female athlete in the world whose whole career (and hundreds of millions of dollars in sponsorship contracts) depend on her NOT failing doping tests. And she expects us to believe that all that was put at risk because she forgot to click on an email link from WADA. I will never believe it.

WTF was Sharapova's reference that Diabetes runs in her family, thus the need for her to have this drug.

AFAIK, there is no drug that prevents Diabetes.

And I am insulted if she is saying that.

(Off to find the Sharapova thread in Tennis, Other Sports...)

 

[Xela M]

WTF was Sharapova's reference that Diabetes runs in her family, thus the need for her to have this drug.

AFAIK, there is no drug that prevents Diabetes.

And I am insulted if she is saying that.

Sharapova knew exactly what she was doing calling that press conference and breaking the news herself before it broke. She may not have a competent medical team, but she sure as hell has a great PR team!

 

[Ka3sha]

I can't believe people feel sorry for her. Look she took a banned drug, with the knowledge that what she took was a banned substance. She should lose her bronze medal from European.

I can only say for myself but Katya, in my opinion, is the last person in Russian Figure Skating Team, who would take dope intentionally.
It is her fault, if she didn't check all the stuff and took that dope after 1st of January. It is also a doctor's fault, if he made an injection (a wrong one?) and didn't check it.
She will be punished, I do not doubt. Still, I feel sorry for them and do not believe that she did it intentionally after all, what had happened to them.
And I'm saying this even not being a B/S's fan (as skaters).

 

[2sk8]

It depends.

WADA has not placed Actovegin on its prohibited list but investigations into its possible use as a performance enhancer are continuing. It is forbidden, however, to take it intravenously as per WADA’s prohibited methods: “Intravenous infusions and/or injections of more than 50 mL per six-hour period are prohibited except for those legitimately received in the course of hospital admissions or clinical investigations.”

There are many drugs where the precise methods of injection are relevant to whether it is allowable or not.

 

[2sk8]

I agree- she has people for this kind of thing.

Exactly. With millions at stake, she had "people" who would have filed for a TUE the minute this drug was listed, if she had truly been taking it for years.

 

[Sylvia]

Sports Muscle Injuries and Actovegin: Basics, Concepts and Future of Actovegin (2016 book by Paul Y.F. Lee):

Muscle injuries are very common sports-related injuries. They results in significant morbidity and time lost from training and competitions. R.I.C.E. have been the mainstay of therapy, which are based on tradition and poor evidence. Recently, there have been many new potential treatment options available on the market, attempting to shorten healing and speed up recovery. The biochemical events following skeletal muscle injuries and repair is driven by cytokines, monocytes and leukocytes. The speed and quality of muscle healing are dependent on the inflammatory process. Studies suggested Actovegin could significantly modulate the inflammatory process. This book analyzed the Dr. Mueller-Wohlfahrt’s Actovegin injection regime in detail and discuss the potential for a new treatment regimen based on single agent Actovegin injection. This book should help shed some light on the scientific logics and new theories on Actovegin therapy, and should be especially useful to professionals in sports and sports injuries fields such as high-performance athletes, coaches, physiotherapist, sports doctors, or anyone else who may be dealing with muscle injuries.

https://www.morebooks.de/store/gb/book/sports-muscle-injuries-and-actovegin/isbn/978-3-659-83180-5

"Sports and exercise medicine—specialists or snake oil salesmen?" British Journal of Sports Medicine article (November 2009): https://www.researchgate.net/profil...l_salesmen/links/00b7d535cae47d8938000000.pdf