Adam speaks his mind on US leader chosen for the Oympic delegation

Homosexuals absenting themselves from meetings with homophobes helps nothing! Everyone says that homosexuals owning who they are Among family and coworkers was a good thing for changing views. Yes rippon meeting Pence openly could change pence. That’s been proven to lead to less homophobia. Boycotting and absenting is dangerous harmful and awful for homosexuals. Plus Christianity is peace love and harmony so so much anger and hate from rippon is anti Christian.
 
Homosexuals absenting themselves from meetings with homophobes helps nothing! Everyone says that homosexuals owning who they are Among family and coworkers was a good thing for changing views. Yes rippon meeting Pence openly could change pence. That’s been proven to lead to less homophobia. Boycotting and absenting is dangerous harmful and awful for homosexuals. Plus Christianity is peace love and harmony so so much anger and hate from rippon is anti Christian.

Nobody asked for your advice. Movements led by the actual communities being affected will keep on doing what they're doing without interlopers who have never gotten involved before or studied working strategies trying to lecture them. I think it takes a lot of gall to tell someone who is part of the maligned community that he is wrong to snub the very person who has made it part of his life's work to delegitimize them and added to the harm against to their community publicly and proudly. Guess what got Pence's attention the most? The snub. A gay person meeting him for like a second among many other Olympic athletes at a PR Olympic event isn't going to leave an impression nor make Pence get rid of his lifelong deeply-held religious belief that gays need to be extinguished from society (not saying killed but he's doing it in other ways).
 
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So people who actually are victims of discrimination and bigotry should either not protest at all about that mistreatment, or should protest that mistreatment by being silent. Because if they speak about their experiences and their opinions, they're exploiting their victim status. Gotcha.
 
I'd say Adam has been pretty effective and he was just getting started.

"Who will Adam snub next"? :watch: Sounds like a new reality show where aging figure skater compensates for his waning relevance by ineffectively tackling social justice causes worldwide. Maybe next he'll refuse to meet Angela Merkel for rejecting gay marriage. :cheer: And just wait until he gets through with Tayyip Erdogan! :revenge:

ruffled your feathers and you end up posting about victimization being used as social currency,
which shows you don't really care about effective means of protest or even this issue

Personally, I do not or ever have seen myself as part of a "victim group" or "underprivileged" for things I can't control (being gay, darker skinned, muslim family). But the popular narrative runs opposite--uncontrollables like race and gender dictate "privilege" while individual merit and personal responsibility are tossed to the wayside. I find that concept infuriating...but maybe I just need another lecture from you to better understand my impending doom living here in the United States. :lol:
 
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It is bigotry but rippon is saying he is the truly religious one. Pence is using religion to further his hate but a Christian would be forgiving and embrace the sinner not shun them! Christians didn’t shun the lepers!
Late to the discussion and commenting before reading the rest of the thread, so I apologize if this has been noted.
Jesus, however, called out the Pharisees and other religious leaders of the time for their self importance and forgetting what is truly the Great Commandment - to love one another and to treat others as you wish to be treated. Pence is a self absorbent political "leader" who believes himself to be the authority on the right way to be as a Christian. Rather than the right way to treat another and to ensure everyone is treated with respect to whom they are. Pence by supporting gay conversion therapy is not embracing others but is shutting them out of society as piranha in his little world. One can turn the other cheek, but given the opportunity (in this case White House visitation) to stand for a social principle of justice for all act upon that opportunity. In this case to reject the notation that because one is gay one is somehow not worthy of respect and acceptance. Social justice, ethics and morality.
 
It is a challenge to tyranny and discrimination. It may not change anything in itself short-term, but such challenges (individual and collective) have always been necessary to effect change.
Also, to prevent normalization and acceptance of abhorrent ideas and policies. To take a stand, however small, and say, "This is not okay. I don't accept this, and you don't have to either."
 
Nobody asked for your advice. Movements led by the actual communities being affected will keep on doing what they're doing without interlopers who have never gotten involved before or studied working strategies trying to lecture them. I think it takes a lot of gall to tell someone who is part of the maligned community that he is wrong to snub the very person who has made it part of his life's work to delegitimize them and added to the harm against to their community publicly and proudly. Guess what got Pence's attention the most? The snub. A gay person meeting him for like a second among many other Olympic athletes at a PR Olympic event isn't going to leave an impression nor make Pence get rid of his lifelong deeply-held religious belief that gays need to be extinguished from society (not saying killed but he's doing it in other ways).

So? I can still comment and point out the fact that everyone does agree by staying put and not leaving and standing up for themselves being open about homosexuality in difficult environments has helped acceptance of homosexuality. Staying away from conflict or being in the closet didn’t help. Rippon by boycotting is going against all things that have proven to work and make progress. It’s disgusting. It’s attention seeking and self serving BS.

Late to the discussion and commenting before reading the rest of the thread, so I apologize if this has been noted.
Jesus, however, called out the Pharisees and other religious leaders of the time for their self importance and forgetting what is truly the Great Commandment - to love one another and to treat others as you wish to be treated. Pence is a self absorbent political "leader" who believes himself to be the authority on the right way to be as a Christian. Rather than the right way to treat another and to ensure everyone is treated with respect to whom they are. Pence by supporting gay conversion therapy is not embracing others but is shutting them out of society as piranha in his little world. One can turn the other cheek, but given the opportunity (in this case White House visitation) to stand for a social principle of justice for all act upon that opportunity. In this case to reject the notation that because one is gay one is somehow not worthy of respect and acceptance. Social justice, ethics and morality.

Jesus did do that and he did it through direct confrontation! He even allowed himself to be crucified because he believed in direct confrontation! He didn’t try to hide and go into exile but stay and confront all the problems!
 
If Adam was hiding and going into exile then nobody would have known anything about where he stood on these issues. The opposite is happening and everybody knows where he stands as he put himself out there to make his views known, including Pence. This is a case of wrongful categorization of what he is doing. If anything, by doing what he's doing he put more attention onto himself and has put a target on his back from people like you who are accusing him of being un-Christian because you KNOW exactly what he is thinking with his public charges.

"Who will Adam snub next"? :watch: Sounds like a new reality show where aging figure skater compensates for his waning relevance by ineffectively tackling social justice causes worldwide. Maybe next he'll refuse to meet Angela Merkel for rejecting gay marriage. :cheer: And just wait until he gets through with Tayyip Erdogan! :revenge:

You never know what the future holds. Charlie White became much more politically-active and outspoken after Sochi. Adam has been spending his whole life so far dedicated to skating. That said, in the last few years Adam has used Twitter to speak out about various political issues, so I think he's at least cognizant and cares. Maybe he'll dedicate some energy to take that further. Maybe he won't. But the most we can ask people is to do what they can.


Personally, I do not or ever have seen myself as part of a "victim group" or "underprivileged" for things I can't control (being gay, darker skinned, muslim family). But the popular narrative runs opposite--uncontrollables like race and gender dictate "privilege" while individual merit and personal responsibility are tossed to the wayside. I find that concept infuriating...but maybe I just need another lecture from you to better understand my impending doom living here in the United States. :lol:

I should start charging for my lectures. However, I know where you stand and how you feel with the content and tone of your posts, so I'd figure it'd be as fruitful as me going up to someone like Pence and in 10-30 seconds telling him to change his whole life's worldview on LGBTQ issues and be successful at it. Anyway, just a morsel this time, regarding privilege and individual merit and personal responsibility, those aren't mutually exclusive. In fact, any substantive discussion of privilege covers individual merit and personal responsibility. Of course, some people on social media who are more interested in engaging in outrage culture take these dense academic terms and twist them in a self-serving way so that people, such as yourself, can find an excuse to dismiss the whole thing no matter despite any merit those ideas may have.
 
So? I can still comment and point out the fact that everyone does agree by staying put and not leaving and standing up for themselves being open about homosexuality in difficult environments has helped acceptance of homosexuality. Staying away from conflict or being in the closet didn’t help. Rippon by boycotting is going against all things that have proven to work and make progress. It’s disgusting. It’s attention seeking and self serving BS.



Jesus did do that and he did it through direct confrontation! He even allowed himself to be crucified because he believed in direct confrontation! He didn’t try to hide and go into exile but stay and confront all the problems!



About that sentence I just highlighted. You're wrong. If you do a little research , you'll discover that the boycott of the bus system in Montgomery Alabama in 1955-1956 was a key action in the civil rights of the 1950s and 1960s. One person, Rosa Parks. Yes boycotts can work occasionally. But you're filled with your own agenda that anything that contradicts your own world won't matter.
 
So this is what we get from Adam after he was darn lucky to have been named to the team after finishing in 4th place at Nationals. Thank goodness that his equally big-mouthed buddy Ashley is not on the US Oly team or they’d be collectively whining...in stereophonic sound, no less. STFU and just skate.
 
So this is what we get from Adam after he was darn lucky to have been named to the team after finishing in 4th place at Nationals. Thank goodness that his equally big-mouthed buddy Ashley is not on the US Oly team or they’d be collectively whining...in stereophonic sound, no less. STFU and just skate.

Ahh, yes, shut up and skate. And don't you football players DARE take a knee at a game to make a statement, just shut up and play (and BTW, you "brown" players, be grateful you've been ALLOWED to participate in this game and be paid high salaries, where's your GRATITUDE, dammit????). Athletes should just shut up and play. Actors should shut up and act. But of course, the Frau Muller's of the world have the right to speak out and tell others how to behave.

Hey, Frau, we put up with your whining. You can put up with Adam's and anyone else's.
 
Homosexuals absenting themselves from meetings with homophobes helps nothing! Everyone says that homosexuals owning who they are Among family and coworkers was a good thing for changing views. Yes rippon meeting Pence openly could change pence. That’s been proven to lead to less homophobia.
Rippon was quoted in Brennan's USA Today column as being open to meeting Pence in person but he indicates that competing is his priority:
“If I had the chance to meet him [Pence] afterwards, after I’m finished competing, there might be a possibility to have an open conversation,” Rippon said. “He seems more mild-mannered than Donald Trump. … But I don’t think the current administration represents the values that I was taught growing up. Mike Pence doesn’t stand for anything that I really believe in.”
Plus Christianity is peace love and harmony so so much anger and hate from rippon is anti Christian.
You may read the tone of his quotes as expressing "anger and hate" and are free to repeat it endlessly (as you have to date), but I don't believe this is case at all. :)

Rippon's follow-up quote was published yesterday in this People article: http://people.com/sports/figure-skater-adam-rippon-criticizes-mike-pence-gay-rights/
“I just don’t think that’s right,” he says, “and I think there are so many people who also don’t think that’s right and I think right now more than ever I have this window of time to say what I feel and hopefully make a change.”

“My mom has always taught me to stand up for people who don’t have a voice,” he says.
From the end of the article:
“Sharing my story [coming out] in 2015, I remember thinking if just one person hears this and reads it and it makes them feel like they aren’t alone, that would be awesome,” he tells PEOPLE. “Now to be headed to the Olympics, my story now has a bigger platform and I’ve heard from so many different kinds of people.”

“It’s so amazing,” he continues, “and it makes me feel like coming out — it was way more important than I even realized.”
 
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This thread has turned (more) adversarial, but I have some downtime at work and I may as well post a few thoughts to supplement what people have said above.

First, I don't think it's unreasonable to point out that Adam and Ashley aren't necessarily engaging in the most productive political actions they could. But then again, just like it's easier for them to criticize the current administration than quit skating and become full-time political organizers, it's even easier for us here on FSU to criticize Adam and Ashley than any of the above. Plus, criticism and other actions aren't mutually exclusive, and what people do to try to promote queer liberation may or may not be successful--intentions, strategy, and effects don't have any sort of objective connection.

I don't see the point in asking athletes to be apolitical, but I also agree that the media tries too hard to get public figures to comment on politics because it generates interest. As I've said before, athletes who come out of the closet basically become political figures whether they want to or not, which can create a lose/lose scenario for figure skaters (Cf. Orser, Boitano, Weir, and now Rippon).

What I'm seeing here--and have seen many times in the past on FSU--is that some posters want to prescribe how gay people express their sexuality and their politics. I didn't even like writing that sentence because I realize that when I say "their" it could imply that there is a general or stereotypical or essential truth connecting all gay people, which of course is incorrect. Similarly, what's at stake for every person deciding whether to come out or not come out or be out is radically different and involves factors including geographic location, profession, family, partners . . . and in the case of public figures, it's often even more complicated.

Being part of the queer community, I've seen just how often queer people want to judge other queer people. If someone comes out, they did it at the wrong time or in the wrong way. If they're in the closet, they're betraying all other gay people in the universe. If they're too stereotypical, they're a disgrace to their sexuality. If they're too "normal," they're evil assimilationists. These kind of judgments seem, to me, even worse when they're coming from straight people, but that may be an unfair double standard and I'm willing to adjust my thoughts.

I guess my main point is that Adam's comments--and our discussions about them--are part of a huge, broad, and complex struggle for understanding or acceptance or something like that. Dictating how gay people come out or express themselves doesn't seem productive to me, but cutting off criticism of political actions and dialogue doesn't either. And, finally, I think trying to generate empathy by saying sexuality is just like race or ability or other factors connected with empowerment is problematic, tempting as it may be. It's a unique issue that obviously intersects with other factors of identity but is not tantamount to any of them.
 
Being part of the queer community, I've seen just how often queer people want to judge other queer people. If someone comes out, they did it at the wrong time or in the wrong way. If they're in the closet, they're betraying all other gay people in the universe. If they're too stereotypical, they're a disgrace to their sexuality. If they're too "normal," they're evil assimilationists. These kind of judgments seem, to me, even worse when they're coming from straight people, but that may be an unfair double standard and I'm willing to adjust my thoughts.

I am going to say this knowing someone is going to say I am making light of it, which is not my intent. Humanity is judgey. Someone just posted a thread on how can we get a message to Zagitova to pull up her tights. Because judgey. About everything. We make our opinions known when we aren't necessarily ill intended or evil people because, well, because we are the center of our own universes and they are our opinions.
 
Ahh, yes, shut up and skate. And don't you football players DARE take a knee at a game to make a statement, just shut up and play (and BTW, you "brown" players, be grateful you've been ALLOWED to participate in this game and be paid high salaries, where's your GRATITUDE, dammit????). Athletes should just shut up and play. Actors should shut up and act. But of course, the Frau Muller's of the world have the right to speak out and tell others how to behave.

Hey, Frau, we put up with your whining. You can put up with Adam's and anyone else's.
Gosh darn it. You're so right. I should have never brought attention to the fact I was disabled and couldn't vote because of the simple fact there was no handicap ramp at the courthouse for me to go up or down on with my Walker.

Yes, I should have never even opened my mouth and brought attention to the fact I was disabled and couldn't vote anymore. If I wouldn't have said anything about it, I still wouldn't be able to vote because there would be no accessible place for me to vote in my town.

I didn't just speak up for me. I spoke up and protested for every single disabled/handicapped person that was in the same situation and couldn't vote because of the absence of handicap ramps in my small town.

I'm glad you posted and said what you did, Yazmeen. Just because I'm now disabled doesn't mean I'm no longer a fully functioning human being that also isn't allowed to vote because of it.
 
About that sentence I just highlighted. You're wrong. If you do a little research , you'll discover that the boycott of the bus system in Montgomery Alabama in 1955-1956 was a key action in the civil rights of the 1950s and 1960s. One person, Rosa Parks. Yes boycotts can work occasionally. But you're filled with your own agenda that anything that contradicts your own world won't matter.

This is just boycotting a person and not the main drivers of homophobia in the world. And it’s all about rippon saying he has true Christian values and not pence so why would someone boycott another person? That’s not Christian and it’s also not how gay rights works now! Gay rights work with establishing Strong personal connections with individuals! You boycott bad institutions not people! Rippon is boycotting a person which is wrong hateful and unchristian.

Rippon was quoted in Brennan's USA Today column as being open to meet Pence in person but he indicates that competing is his priority:
“If I had the chance to meet him [Pence] afterwards, after I’m finished competing, there might be a possibility to have an open conversation,” Rippon said. “He seems more mild-mannered than Donald Trump. … But I don’t think the current administration represents the values that I was taught growing up. Mike Pence doesn’t stand for anything that I really believe in.”

You may read the tone of his quotes as expressing "anger and hate" and are free to repeat it endlessly (as you have to date), but I don't believe this is case at all. :)

Rippon's follow-up quote was published yesterday in this People article: http://people.com/sports/figure-skater-adam-rippon-criticizes-mike-pence-gay-rights/

From the end of the article:

But that is why rippon must meet with pence not boycott him at any point. Pope John paul ii didn’t boycott meeting his attempted assassin he met with him and forgave him and established strong relationship with him. Since rippon knows what true christianity is and lives it every day any boycott of any meeting with a sinner is wrong. It’s is his Christian duty to meet pence as much as possible but also that’s what gay rights activism is about now. Stay and be out!
 
Boycotting a person? Oh my you need a course in American history as soon as possible.
In short Rosa Parks was the symbol, when she refused to give up her seat to a white man on the bus in the 1950's she was arrested and prosecuted. In response, the African American community spearheaded a boycott of the entire bus system that just about crippled the city of Montgomery and led to the civil rights movement that is still changing this country.

My point is, one person can make a difference. Yes, there may be consequences for speaking out and defending what someone thinks is right. But people throughout history have taken a stand, for big important ideals. Boycotting is one action.
Whatever Adam does or doesn't do isn't up to me or you. It's not for me or anyone to form his conscience and tell him how to act.
 
Homosexuals absenting themselves from meetings with homophobes helps nothing! Everyone says that homosexuals owning who they are Among family and coworkers was a good thing for changing views. Yes rippon meeting Pence openly could change pence. That’s been proven to lead to less homophobia. Boycotting and absenting is dangerous harmful and awful for homosexuals. Plus Christianity is peace love and harmony so so much anger and hate from rippon is anti Christian.
I don't see him as angry or hateful or anti-Christian. He's just not having any b*llsh*t.
 
Ahh, yes, shut up and skate. And don't you football players DARE take a knee at a game to make a statement, just shut up and play (and BTW, you "brown" players, be grateful you've been ALLOWED to participate in this game and be paid high salaries, where's your GRATITUDE, dammit????). Athletes should just shut up and play. Actors should shut up and act. But of course, the Frau Muller's of the world have the right to speak out and tell others how to behave.

Hey, Frau, we put up with your whining. You can put up with Adam's and anyone else's.

Except for the thing about brown players...........you are totally correct. And many, many sports fans agree with you....look at NFL ratings. Movies are also suffering from abysmal sales.

Respect the country. You know, the country where you have the opportunity to make a gazillion dollars by playing a football, or for being a film star. You have a job to do. Do it. A football field is not the place for political anything. Now that does not mean you don't have a voice, and you have every right to speak out - be appropriate.

And you actors out there................I (and most of America) just so don't care about your political views. I liked you better before I heard your views on things you know very little about........while you were keeping silent about one of the most Weinstien. That is something you do know about, yet you stood by and let the harm continue.

And as for Adam......how very kind of him to say that he might be willing to meet Mr. Pence.....how very gracious. Adam.....grow up, land your jumps, and respect your country.
 
I'm Jewish, but I would appreciate it if you considered it your Christian duty to stop telling gay people how to live their lives as gay people.

Also, please stop abusing punctuation.
I am doing no such thing! I am just going by what the prevailing thoughts are on how to be out!!

There is also NO ABUSE of punctuation!!
 
Except for the thing about brown players...........you are totally correct. And many, many sports fans agree with you....look at NFL ratings. Movies are also suffering from abysmal sales.

Respect the country. You know, the country where you have the opportunity to make a gazillion dollars by playing a football, or for being a film star. You have a job to do. Do it. A football field is not the place for political anything. Now that does not mean you don't have a voice, and you have every right to speak out - be appropriate.

And you actors out there................I (and most of America) just so don't care about your political views. I liked you better before I heard your views on things you know very little about........while you were keeping silent about one of the most Weinstien. That is something you do know about, yet you stood by and let the harm continue.

And as for Adam......how very kind of him to say that he might be willing to meet Mr. Pence.....how very gracious. Adam.....grow up, land your jumps, and respect your country.

Well, let me be clear now and ask you flat out since you are apparently sarcasm-immune: So, in your view, actors and athletes should not speak out except in circumstances that you pre-approve of, but you have the right to do so and also to tell them how to behave at any time. Am I correct that you are saying that they should keep their opinions to themselves unless you decide the "appropriate time and place" while it's just fine for you to spout your beliefs AND tell them how to behave at will?

Sorry for belaboring this, but I just have to shake my head when people like you tell famous people to shut up while simultaneously dictating how and when and even if they should speak up without limiting the circumstances where YOU can speak and share your opinions freely. I guess the hypocrisy here also flies over your head...
 
Looks like Pence has responded to Rippon....
Pence's press secretary apparently emailed that one (previously quoted) reply/statement to various media organizations.

Dave Zirin, sports editor of The Nation, today: Olympian Adam Rippon Stands Up to Mike Pence’s Homophobia
I spoke to Cyd Zeigler, author of Fair Play: How LGBT Athletes Are Claiming Their Rightful Place in Sports, who said, “The most important piece of what Adam said about Mike Pence is his willingness to sit down with the vice president for an open conversation. We have let the divisions in our country get way out of hand, and Adam’s openness to conversation with someone he disagrees with shows the leadership we’ve come to expect from our greatest American athletes. I wish we would all take his lead.”
ETA the link to the end of Zirin's 4-tweet chain: https://twitter.com/EdgeofSports/status/954430606909280257
 
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I am doing no such thing! I am just going by what the prevailing thoughts are on how to be out!!

There is also NO ABUSE of punctuation!!

You don't get to tell anyone how to act. It's Adam's choice. If you think he's hateful and anti-Christian for not wanting to meet at man who wants to force him the change and take away his rights then you are part of the problem.

Calm down and stop jumping down people's throats. If you're going to be judgmental and self-righteous then you should expect to be called out.
 
You don't get to tell anyone how to act. It's Adam's choice. If you think he's hateful and anti-Christian for not wanting to meet at man who wants to force him the change and take away his rights then you are part of the problem.

Calm down and stop jumping down people's throats. If you're going to be judgmental and self-righteous then you should expect to be called out.

And the sad part is that if Adam could easily complete quad jumps, casey would probably be defending him...
 

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