2025 Cup of China Pairs SP PBP - Haban-Error

[Sally1214]

Rebecca and Filippo's tes are taking a beating on review, I think. BUT ... I really liked their costumes. Does that mean their costuming overshadowed their skating for me

 

[peibeck]

I will never not think of "Volare" as a car commercial song.

Think of this as an ad for the zamboni.

 

[skategal]

Just what we needed....a crappy drowsy Bolero cover...ugh

 

[tony]

The jump elements are just so perfect with them. Death spiral won't be her nemesis this year, either. Much more interesting moments to the program than they are usually good for.

Olympic medal incoming if they get through two programs cleanly IMO. And probably a team medal too.

 

[skatingguy]

Anastasiia Metelkina/Luka Berulava
Coach: P. Sliusarenko, E. Zakroev
Music: Bolero (excerpt) by Milos Karadaglic

3S
Triple Twist 4
Throw 3F
Back Inside Death Spiral 4
Flying Change Foot Combo Spin 4
Reverse Lasso Lift 4 (3 after review)
Step Sequence 4

Interesting starting position, and it made it clear that she was the cape with the way they started the program. That was an excellent performance, and a pretty good program for a team that generally has terrible program.

77.77 = 1st Place

 

[Sally1214]

Anastasiia and Luka killed it!!

 

[thvu]

Wowwwww. That was great from Metelkina & Berulava. Such great posture, lines. The element quality was so great in the 3twist, sbs 3sal, throw 3flip, the death spiral.

The sbs spins were slightly out of sync, but they were so close together. And the reverse lasso lift covered alot of ice, but what is with his footwork and being on his heel so much?

 

[peibeck]

Metelkina/Berulava: a touch out of synch on the sbs but otherwise superb. Let's see how the judges hold down their PCS too.

 

[Citlali]

This Bolero music

That GOE was ultra generous or maybe I'm being unfair to them because they made me listen to that

 

[Karen-W]

MetBeru - SBS 3s - really gorgeous; 3tw - nice; throw 3f - also quite nice; BIDS - good; SBS spins - bit out of synch near the end but otherwise nice & close together; lift - good; step seq - fine, but I really don't see the point in ever ending on a step sequence. They really have come to play this season with much better programs than in past seasons. Also, Madison should look to Anastasiia for inspiration for a revamped FD costume.

 

[peibeck]

Sara's dress is gorgeous

 

[skatingguy]

Sara Conti/Niccolo Macii
Coach: Barbara Luoni
Music: The Wild Bull, Concerto de Espana

Triple Twist 3
Throw 3Lo - hand down
3S - timing slightly off, Sara's jump was tight
Reverse Lasso Lift 3
Step Sequence 4
Back Inside Death Spiral 4
Change Foot Combo Spin 4

Not as sharp as the Georgians, but a very good performance, and used the music very effectively.

73.41 = 2nd Place

 

[thvu]

Loooooovveee this from Conti and Macii. This team has style and charisma. From the opening, I loved the intensity. Their unison has just gotten better too. And the choreo is sharp, transitions in the first half were so smooth. These two perform and are giving us charisma.

Element quality overall was not as good as the Georgians, but give Conti & Macii all the PCS. They should win PCS for the night.

 

[Citlali]

Sara and Niccolo has been skating to Italy's most used music and THIS year they choose Spain?

 

[tony]

Even seeing the Georgians back to back with these two-time World medalists, Metelkina & Berulava are just so much better and so smooth with what they do. I like the intensity of C/M here but that death spiral comes to almost a complete stop in getting hopes of level 4 and it just seems a bit imbalanced overall.

 

[Karen-W]

ConMac - 3tw - nice; throw 3lo - hand down on the landing; SBS 3s - decent; lift - seemed a bit clunky on the entrance but they made it work; step seq - decent; assisted cartwheel into the BIDS - alright; SBS spins - good for the most part.

I know this wasn't their first competition of the season but they definitely seem a little under-trained. It's definitely one of the more interesting programs here. It'll be interesting to see where they score & place.

 

[tony]

Sara and Niccolo has been skating to Italy's most used music and THIS year they choose Spain?

The free skate..

 

[peibeck]

Conti/Macii: Great speed, but not always super clean on the tech. Best presentation though, very fiery and Olympic-like.

 

[Sally1214]

Really enjoyed that from Sara and Niccolo. Should win PCS but we shall see.

 

[peibeck]

The Italians barely behind Sui/Han (with an under rotated jump fall and much slower skating) in PCS is more judging nonsense.

 

[peibeck]

OK kids, off to the office. Will catch the dance and women later.

 

[Sally1214]

I'm just fine with Conti and Macii in 2nd but Sui/Han should be nowhere as close as they are in 3rd. I don't think they should even be in third place at all ... but (sigh) ... moving on ...

OK, so that's it for LIVE skating for me today. Off to get a flu shot now (an autumn ritual that is always good to get out of the way). I'll catch up with the Women and Dance sometime this afternoon.

See you all tomorrow morning for the Men and Pair Free Skates.

 

[skatingguy]

Short Program Protocols

 

[thvu]

So, now that @tony has established that Sui & Han should get a 0 for their lift in the SP and should be in 7th...

Like wow, what a miss for so many people involved, from their own team, to the tech panel, to everyone who watched practices and didn't say anything.

 

[tony]

It's just frustrating as a fan, albeit a very dedicated one, that I read the rules and try to know exactly what I'm looking for at all times, but the officials (who I get reminded have X amount of training and experience that I don't have) don't even know what they are doing here, or when it comes to some of the more nuanced rules. This one literally has a line on the group 5 description explaining that if it doesn't meet this key criteria, it needs to be called group 4. It's not even something that I had to twist and roundabout to get to.

 

[Karen-W]

It's just frustrating as a fan, albeit a very dedicated one, that I read the rules and try to know exactly what I'm looking for at all times, but the officials (who I get reminded have X amount of training and experience that I don't have) don't even know what they are doing here, or when it comes to some of the more nuanced rules. This one literally has a line on the group 5 description explaining that if it doesn't meet this key criteria, it needs to be called group 4. It's not even something that I had to twist and roundabout to get to.

Dumb question - has something changed in the definition of Group 5 vs Group 4 since SuiHan last competed?

I'm only asking because while I'm sure it hasn't, I just don't understand how they & their team, which includes Hongbo Zhao, could have missed such an obvious requirement.

And we won't even talk about the entire officiating crew - tech panel & judges - who also missed it.

 

[tony]

Dumb question - has something changed in the definition of Group 5 vs Group 4 since SuiHan last competed?

I'm only asking because while I'm sure it hasn't, I just don't understand how they & their team, which includes Hongbo Zhao, could have missed such an obvious requirement.

And we won't even talk about the entire officiating crew - tech panel & judges - who also missed it.

The judges can't really do anything about it. They have to score the GOE based on how it's called. If the panel calls it a group 5, they can't decide on their own that it was a group 4 and dock them all those GOE points. I don't fault them, although since most of them, if not all, watch the practices alongside the tech panels, someone could've/should've seen something.

Had to do a lot of clicking around broken links but I found the 2021/2022 rules and it's the exact same when they were competing.

Wayback Machine

Group 5 (Lasso) Lifts
In a Lasso, or Group 5 Lift, the Woman rotates around the man/in relation to the man during the lifting process between the take-off and the fully extended position. This rotation must be visible by way of shoulders and or hips. During the lifting process one of the man’s hands must remain clearly above his shoulders. If not, the group is identified as group 4 lift

ETA- I suspect maybe the camp does know but think that it was 'close enough' that no one would notice or care. Maybe they aren't 100% yet and need to do that entry, for whatever reason.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Catching up.

i really like the flipover into the split position in Sui/Han's lift. That music doesn't even rate a 1 on the Flamenco scale.

I never noticed before that the last 1/3 of Zhang/Huang's jump entrance was both of them gliding forward on two feet and flat edges. But that camera angle caught it dead on.

Did Beccari get taller? Guarise is aging like one of those vintage bottles of wine at auction that I can neither pronounce nor afford.

Aside from the SBS spins, and apart from the "will-they-won't-they" component of Sui/Han's comeback, I preferred McBeath/Parkman here, and I'm not a huge fan of any US Pair.

Hocke/Kunkel's program is right in their wheelhouse.

Ghilardi/Ambrossini's skating most often looks sticky to me. I preferred watching Beccari/Ambrosini Guarise, despite the gulf in scores.

Metelkina's costume is a crime against Lycra and the headstand to open is cringe, but once they start skating I can't argue with their quality. If I have to listen to Bolero in skating, the SP is, at least, shorter.

Hard for me to get past the horrific musical arrangement that Conti/Macii are bringing. The skating is another matter: they look GP-ready.

 

[Karen-W]

The judges can't really do anything about it. They have to score the GOE based on how it's called. If the panel calls it a group 5, they can't decide on their own that it was a group 4 and dock them all those GOE points. I don't fault them, although since most of them, if not all, watch the practices alongside the tech panels, someone could've/should've seen something.

Had to do a lot of clicking around broken links but I found the 2021/2022 rules and it's the exact same when they were competing.

Wayback Machine

Group 5 (Lasso) Lifts
In a Lasso, or Group 5 Lift, the Woman rotates around the man/in relation to the man during the lifting process between the take-off and the fully extended position. This rotation must be visible by way of shoulders and or hips. During the lifting process one of the man’s hands must remain clearly above his shoulders. If not, the group is identified as group 4 lift

ETA- I suspect maybe the camp does know but think that it was 'close enough' that no one would notice or care. Maybe they aren't 100% yet and need to do that entry, for whatever reason.

FWIW - Chris Knierim agrees that this lift is a Group 4 lift, not a Group 5 one.

https://x.com/ChrisKnierim/status/1981708205224071312?t=xTv2c-n2IlocOMynZ7pgaQ&s=19

I suspect that even though they got away with it today, the tech panel at NHK won't be quite as inept now that it's being called out all over social media.

 

[tony]

FWIW - Chris Knierim agrees that this lift is a Group 4 lift, not a Group 5 one.

https://x.com/ChrisKnierim/status/1981708205224071312?t=xTv2c-n2IlocOMynZ7pgaQ&s=19

I suspect that even though they got away with it today, the tech panel at NHK won't be quite as inept now that it's being called out all over social media.

Is it being though? Chris' Tweet has zero traction and I only saw one coach share my photo so far.

I wrote to one of the technical panelists at Cup of China in a very nice tone and explained why it's the totally wrong call. Let's see what happens tomorrow if they attempt it again.