2025-26 U.S. Ice Dance News, Updates & Discussion - Backstreet Boys & Spice Girls

I've seen some responses on social media suggesting that it's embarrassing to Maia for this to have become public, that it should have remained in fan chats. And I simply don't understand the reasoning among fans who seem to consider themselves enlightened on all sorts of matters that it's better for this type of emotionally and verbally abusive behavior to be kept under wraps. What is the point of shedding light on harm in skating if not to expose it when possible, even if it that exposure happened thanks to a less than savory source? If a skater hit his partner and it were captured on LiveBarn, should that be left to DM convos because the sacred secrecy of fan chats trumps safety?

I was a fan of the Shibs throughout the 2010s. I was dubious about the comeback, but keeping an open mind of at least the possibility of interesting material. Within the first minute 30 of this video, I had a visceral fight-or-flight reaction to Alex's behavior. I hate that this really is the reality, after the rumors of the last couple years, but it's important to know now.
 
I've seen some conflict over this clip being shared. It's a vulnerable moment for Maia, and obviously DL had no good intentions sharing it. At the same time, this sort of behaviour shouldn't be kept secret and should be exposed. Regardless, it's out there now, and Alex's behaviour is just inexcusable, and if that woman at the boards is indeed their mother, it doesn't feel like Maia has the necessary support for this comeback. Some people are trying to argue that it's just a sibling fight, but a "Sibling fight" to me would involve both parties being immature, yelling, throwing around insults stomping around, slamming on the boards etc. That would not have been impressive to see, but far less disturbing than Alex berating Maia for eleven and a half minutes while she mostly stayed still, you could barely hear her most of the time, and even when she did raise her voice enough to be audible she was nowhere near as aggressive. She mostly wanted him to talk to her more nicely and felt he was contradicting himself by saying it's "textbook" also that skating is not just about following instructions. This wasn't an argument or a fight, this was Alex verbally assaulting and abusing his sister.

It would still be completely unacceptable to speak to anyone like that regardless of their level of skill and experience, but it was incredibly striking to me how he seems to think himself above her, not just saying that he's the only reason they'll make it or that she's an idiot or has a weak mind, but in the way he talks down to her like an ignorant child who doesn't understand anything without him holding her hand. What medals and accolades does he have that she does not? What vast experience and training does he have that she doesn't? He's not treating her like a partner and an equal whose opinion is just as valid as his, he's treating her like dead weight he's dragging to glory.

Just because they're siblings doesn't give him the right to treat her that way. Siblings can abuse each other just like how romantic partners can, or how abuse can occur in the workplace, or between parent and child. There are many reasons she'd might find it worth it to attempt a comeback. I'm fairly certain they would have come back years ago if not for her health scare, and having her career cut short like that must have been devastating. She may have thought Alex matured in the past seven years. And a fairly major factor is that seven years ago they had a full proper coaching team as well as training mates, and Alex may have controlled himself a bit better and there were more parties to intervene. Now they're training largely alone, Alex is doing the coaching(which aside from his personal issues seems like a recipe for disaster regardless, one partner being in charge like that), they're lacking the support and infrastructure they're used to, and based on the actual skating they're not where they'd like to be at this point in the season to challenge for medals. That frustration and lack of safety net may have made Alex's tendencies worse than ever, though based on how Maia and their mother react it's still not out of the ordinary for him.

That video was an incredibly hard watch. It's going to be difficult to think of anything else if they do make it to competition, and any puff pieces that include Alex talking about how brave and strong she is for coming back from cancer are just going to be nauseating. I hope Maia considers if this comeback is really worth it and finds a good support system.
 
I've seen some responses on social media suggesting that it's embarrassing to Maia for this to have become public, that it should have remained in fan chats. And I simply don't understand the reasoning among fans who seem to consider themselves enlightened on all sorts of matters that it's better for this type of emotionally and verbally abusive behavior to be kept under wraps. What is the point of shedding light on harm in skating if not to expose it when possible, even if it that exposure happened thanks to a less than savory source? If a skater hit his partner and it were captured on LiveBarn, should that be left to DM convos because the sacred secrecy of fan chats trumps safety?
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This strikes me as yet another form of victim blaming.
 
I think Alex should act more his age for sure. That said I think sanctions against him would hurt the female partner just as much. Any sanction against the brother would have a lasting impact on family dynamics that can go on for decades.

But perhaps someone should talk to the parent who talks to the kids
 
But perhaps someone should talk to the parent who talks to the kids

The "kids" are in their thirties. And their mother is not their coach. (I doubt the mother is actually able/willing to solve this issue at this point anyway.) If they do officially have a coach, then they should talk to that coach, even if the coach isn't there on a regular basis. And even if they are not going to impose sanctions, they need to talk to the skaters (separately and differently).
 
The "kids" are in their thirties. And their mother is not their coach. (I doubt the mother is actually able/willing to solve this issue at this point anyway.) If they do officially have a coach, then they should talk to that coach, even if the coach isn't there on a regular basis. And even if they are not going to impose sanctions, they need to talk to the skaters (separately and differently).
Tell them to get a coach as the arbitrator works too. Or yes talk to them separately and differently.
 
I have seen loads of other partnered skaters scream (pairs and ice dance) at each other on the ice. It's more common than most fans think, siblings or not. I have seen lots of fighting on the ice between partners, though fighting between siblings can have more dynamics than just partners.

I've seen partners break down on the ice to the point that an ambulance had to be called for wellness concerns, and the girl was at the ER for hours. I've seen a top team where the guy berated and screamed at the girl for almost the whole session, and the other skaters in the rink couldn't skate because the guy was screaming at the girl in the middle of the rink (and no, not the Shibutanis). I've seen fights escalate to the point the Child Services have been called. I've seen fights that started at the rink and ended up in lawsuits.

I had a pair skater who lived with me before and his fight with the partner was so bad, the police came to my house several times to talk to him (both skaters have stopped skating).

And yes, some coaches scream and fight with other coaches. One of the coaches who passed away in the flight that crashed had a major blow-up with another coach, and they just started screaming in the middle of the rink, that everyone just can't skate because their fight was so intense. That forced the coach to move to another rink.

This fight with the Shibutanis is just real-life dynamics of a couple dealing with the pressures of skating. It happens fairly common among skaters and coaches.
 
^^And we're supposed to normalize and excuse that behavior?

I have no doubt that some elite skaters behave that way (although none of the elites i shared the ice with in my 17 years of skating did), but the behavior is not normal or within the rules. SafeSport sets boundaries, USFS sets boundaries, and skaters and coaches who violate those should not be rewarded with prime int'l assignments, spots on the Oly team, and sponsorship deals that hold them up as role models.
 
I have seen loads of other partnered skaters scream (pairs and ice dance) at each other on the ice. It's more common than most fans think, siblings or not. I have seen lots of fighting on the ice between partners, though fighting between siblings can have more dynamics than just partners.

I've seen partners break down on the ice to the point that an ambulance had to be called for wellness concerns, and the girl was at the ER for hours. I've seen a top team where the guy berated and screamed at the girl for almost the whole session, and the other skaters in the rink couldn't skate because the guy was screaming at the girl in the middle of the rink (and no, not the Shibutanis). I've seen fights escalate to the point the Child Services have been called. I've seen fights that started at the rink and ended up in lawsuits.

I had a pair skater who lived with me before and his fight with the partner was so bad, the police came to my house several times to talk to him (both skaters have stopped skating).

And yes, some coaches scream and fight with other coaches. One of the coaches who passed away in the flight that crashed had a major blow-up with another coach, and they just started screaming in the middle of the rink, that everyone just can't skate because their fight was so intense. That forced the coach to move to another rink.

This fight with the Shibutanis is just real-life dynamics of a couple dealing with the pressures of skating. It happens fairly common among skaters and coaches.
This sounds incredibly unhealthy and destructive. The above experiences had to have impacted those skaters well into their post-skating years and their relationships moving forward. Considering many participating in this sport start out very young, I think the culture that has been allowed to fester, where many people in the sport seem to have normalized it, should definitely be examined.
 
This sounds incredibly unhealthy and destructive. The above experiences had to have impacted those skaters well into their post-skating years and their relationships moving forward. Considering many participating in this sport start out very young, I think the culture that has been allowed to fester, where many people in the sport seem to have normalized it, should definitely be examined.
Fester feels like a very appropriate word. Just because the culture has become this doesn’t mean it has to stay this way.
 
I have seen loads of other partnered skaters scream (pairs and ice dance) at each other on the ice. It's more common than most fans think, siblings or not. I have seen lots of fighting on the ice between partners, though fighting between siblings can have more dynamics than just partners.

I've seen partners break down on the ice to the point that an ambulance had to be called for wellness concerns, and the girl was at the ER for hours. I've seen a top team where the guy berated and screamed at the girl for almost the whole session, and the other skaters in the rink couldn't skate because the guy was screaming at the girl in the middle of the rink (and no, not the Shibutanis). I've seen fights escalate to the point the Child Services have been called. I've seen fights that started at the rink and ended up in lawsuits.

I had a pair skater who lived with me before and his fight with the partner was so bad, the police came to my house several times to talk to him (both skaters have stopped skating).

And yes, some coaches scream and fight with other coaches. One of the coaches who passed away in the flight that crashed had a major blow-up with another coach, and they just started screaming in the middle of the rink, that everyone just can't skate because their fight was so intense. That forced the coach to move to another rink.

This fight with the Shibutanis is just real-life dynamics of a couple dealing with the pressures of skating. It happens fairly common among skaters and coaches.
While I know these things occur - and there's one rink in my area notorious for abusive parents - they no longer acceptable. They're also hardly ubiquitous. I grew up skating in both the Midwest and all over California and have trained at 6-7 rinks regularly throughout that time. I NEVER saw any of this behavior. I heard rumors of it, but it's not like this is some fact of life in skating.

If anything it's getting a lot less common with the advent of SafeSport. In the '90s coaches yelling at and scolding skaters was common. Now many coaches I know won't get anywhere near that. Some parents threaten to call SafeSport or even report at the most minor issues that would've been standard when I grew up. Depending on the rink there are also a LOT more adult skaters on freestyle sessions and parents at the boards monitoring and reporting bad behavior.

The rise of social media has made more leaks of bad behavior, and the rise of #metoo and similar movements have made skaters, coaches, and parents much more aware that this behavior is unacceptable. Before this people could get away with it - skaters and coaches were out of touch. Now there's much less excuse to be out of touch on respectful behavior and a lot more chance bad behavior gets called out and leaked.

In response we've seen a LOT of blowback against bad behavior against male partners. It's become a big topic of online discourse with names named and the female partners doing interviews and making public accusations against former male partners.

So Alex can no longer hide behind "this is normal in skating."
 
This sounds incredibly unhealthy and destructive. The above experiences had to have impacted those skaters well into their post-skating years and their relationships moving forward. Considering many participating in this sport start out very young, I think the culture that has been allowed to fester, where many people in the sport seem to have normalized it, should definitely be examined.
I don't plan on watching the video as I'm not sure whether it was obtained in an ethical manner, that is, intended for my entertainment.
But I'd agree with this. It does nothing to "cancel Alex" if the incentives and enablements in the system continue.
Even if it's becoming common for abusive skating partners to be exposed, this does not guarantee that there are structural and cultural reforms taking place.
Finally, I'm not sure that increasing same-sex skating partners will affect the issue at all. Girls can be real mean to girls. The dynamic of the "better partner" being abusive to the other can be perfectly present with two women.
 
Apart from the discussion about whether Alex’s behavior is “normal” or “abusive”, the things that jumped out were:

1) Alex was having a serious tantrum that he seemed to have very little control over and displayed having difficulty in regulating … in private with his family and Maia. In public, we know the Shibs have carefully-crafted their image and throughout the decade + that they competed, they always presented this calm and didn’t get too emotional. This gives way more credence to those who felt the Shibs were too controlled overall both on and off the ice as if they’re trying to contain something from getting out.

2) Alex really does talk down to Maia and it seems as though he does not see her as an equal. I really can’t fathom anyone thinking Maia wasn’t an equal part to the Shibs’ success especially when one of their strengths was that they were so similarly matched in skating skills and ability.
 
I don't plan on watching the video as I'm not sure whether it was obtained in an ethical manner, that is, intended for my entertainment.
But I'd agree with this. It does nothing to "cancel Alex" if the incentives and enablements in the system continue.
Even if it's becoming common for abusive skating partners to be exposed, this does not guarantee that there are structural and cultural reforms taking place.
Finally, I'm not sure that increasing same-sex skating partners will affect the issue at all. Girls can be real mean to girls. The dynamic of the "better partner" being abusive to the other can be perfectly present with two women.
This is a huge problem. While there's been a wider acknowledgement of it as a problem, there are plenty of terrible partners that are still out there. Sorensen and Chen were stopped not by the Fed but by SafeSport. Guillame Cizeron is still being rewarded in the French Fed (who in general seems to brush off abusers). Frankly, I'm sure USFS will brush this off as many fans have because Dave Lease is the only source - ignoring that it's clear video evidence.

I'm of the opinion that many feds are changing in this respect, but change is slow and dependent on skill. The NFL could afford to lose abusers but they keep them for the money and chance at success. I'd bet USFS wouldn't throw a gold medalist under the bus like that. But that's also why SafeSport exists, and I think SafeSport is helping. Unfortunately somehow I doubt Maia would ever report Alex to SafeSport.

Apart from the discussion about whether Alex’s behavior is “normal” or “abusive”, the things that jumped out were:

1) Alex was having a serious tantrum that he seemed to have very little control over and displayed having difficulty in regulating … in private with his family and Maia. In public, we know the Shibs have carefully-crafted their image and throughout the decade + that they competed, they always presented this calm and didn’t get too emotional. This gives way more credence to those who felt the Shibs were too controlled overall both on and off the ice as if they’re trying to contain something from getting out.

2) Alex really does talk down to Maia and it seems as though he does not see her as an equal. I really can’t fathom anyone thinking Maia wasn’t an equal part to the Shibs’ success especially when one of their strengths was that they were so similarly matched in skating skills and ability.
I think another huge issue is that even the "fans" value the male partners more. Maia is Alex's equal, and I've seen it argued that she may even be the better of the two.

Yet there seems to be this discourse among fans that ice dance men are the best and the women are there just to complement them. There's fans who, on one hand, are so quick to say "**** abusive ice dance guys!" while on the other hand are very quick to act like women in ice dance just suck at skating. I've seen this for Meryl Davis, perpetuated against many dancers by Dave Lease, and now with fans determined to split up certain teams because the male partner is "too good" for the girl. Emily Bratti is a particularly intense target of this right now. While F/G are both panned, Lilah is often the target of more intense scrutiny. Others I've seen targeted include Gabi Papadakis and Madi Chock.

I know well why ice dance guys are valued growing up in ice skating, but the amount they're coddled as adults - and by fans no less - is really interesting. I wonder if it has to do with them tending towards conventionally attractive?
 
To be fair, Cizeron wasn't abusive that we know of. He's not winning any awards for Partner of the Year, but I don't believe he was ever accused of abuse.
 
To be fair, Cizeron wasn't abusive that we know of. He's not winning any awards for Partner of the Year, but I don't believe he was ever accused of abuse.
To be fair, PapCiz only fully ended their partnership less than a year ago and Gabi has yet to write a full autobiography/tell-all of her entire skating career. What has been put out there and what is known about the skating culture attitudes still holding full court at IAM have punched enough of a question mark in my head about the dynamics of Gabi & Gui's relationship.
 
This is a huge problem. While Frankly, I'm sure USFS will brush this off as many fans have because Dave Lease is the only source - ignoring that it's clear video evidence.

Except that it runs completely counter to USFS’s messaging on mental health. I would think the top teams, the Champs Camp teams, would be given access to psychologists—Green and Parsons mentioned theirs in a recent interview—just like they have access to nutritionists, trainers, etc.

I’m starting to wonder what monitoring is going on here. It’s such a crazy situation, training away from coaches, private ice, missing Champs Camp, that this cannot end well for them….but USFS has their hands full with the current teams who are doing well internationally.
 
Different discipline, but also niche: ballet. Ballet teachers used to be very physical with students, moving their bodies/body parts around. I don't know when the change became common, but in articles and QA's in North America, teachers are now expected to be hands off, at least at elite academies. They whine a lot about not being able to give corrections more directly, words are hard, etc. However, they've adjusted and have learned a different way to teach, even if it's neither automatic nor intuitive, and it isn't like it was back in the day, when teachers would twist your limbs off and hand them to you. It's not like a lot of the old, venerated coaches in Russia didn't talk out their corrections with their students from a chair at the front of the studio, and it's not like Gus Lussi, at least in his later years, got out of his chair off the ice.

So if they're forced to, ie, if there are consequences if they don't change, for the most part, they'll change if they need their jobs.
 
Very few partnerships are equal in the eyes of fans. Madi Hubbell was better than Zack, Smart more charismatic than Dieck, likewise Lim/Quan and others. It isn’t always misogyny, just opinionating by all of us that goes one way or the other. Women might be criticized more frequently partially because most choreo spotlights the lady. When a lady gets better than her partner (paging Carreira) that gets noticed too.
 
Definitely: Margolio, Goncharov, and Kostomarov got no end of grief for being considered so behind their partners. And the push back wasn't simply because they weren't as good, but that they appeared to be judged and placed as if both were equal, instead of on both of their strengths and weaknesses. Similar to Fear and Gibson.
 
General question: last week (I believe) Lease reported on the Shibs free dance and shared a clip. I'm wondering if this new video is from that same session?

If not, I'm guessing they knew LiveBarn could look in on their sessions and yet still this blow up happened.

And now it's 36-48 hours at least since this video appeared and neither the Shibs, nor USFS has made comment on it? Not a good look for either.

At the moment it seems as though more mainstream media, like Brennan or Hersh, have also ignored it. But if they pick it up maybe the Shibs or the USFS will be forced into confronting this inexcusable behavior?
 

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