2024-25 US Pairs Discussion - Triple-Twisting Through Tornado Alley

Karen-W said:
a double standard that fans are applying to would-be American skaters
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There's some sort of Western shame about someone not having a fully "adult" marriage with all the proper visible steps: dating/engagement/lovely public ceremony. The Chock and Bates ideal.
Misato and Tim's marriage wasn't swept under the rug, they publicly announced it with smiling faces and holding their marriage certificate, and so people weren't surprised when he got rapid citizenship. Maybe that's the Japanese difference.
 
Well, Chris Knierim retired and Alexa Knierim considered her options and paired with Brendan Frazier. The were not the first married couple to do this. Different ending with Koleto, but I'm guessing the Japanese Fed wouldn't have been unhappy to have him team up with one of the younger skaters for experience's sake.
 
Karen-W said:
He announced his retirement today - link is in the Dance Hall thread over in the Trash Can.
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But not his divorce, right? I predict they will stay married until something happens that would cause a divorce for any couple. Which may never happen.

Karen-W said:
We're not inside these relationships and it's a little distasteful to speculate on whether or not they are romantic - which is, I think, sort of what @MacMadame is driving at when asking if all of the speculation/discussion is a little creepy (feel free to correct me if I'm misinterpreting :)).
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That's probably nicer than what I'm thinking. But this feels a bit like when we first started talking about child marriages and some people said we should wait for more proof (which came very quickly). These are adults, as Prancer has said, and if they are married, we have no idea what is going on between them. I would prefer if the discussion stuck to how a possible marriage would impact citizenship. Not that I can control FSU discussions or anything. It's just my preference.
 
After Euros, the WS lists look like this:

Top 4: Hase/Volodin, Conti/Macii,, Stellato-Dudek/Deschamps (can't catch C/M at 4C's), and Miura/Kihara, who can't be caught by anyone.

Next 4: Ghilardi/Ambrosini, Pavlova/Sviachenko, Metelkina/Berulava, and Hocke/Kunkel.

Next in line is Kam/O'Shea. They can knock Metelkina/Berulava and Hocke/Kunkel with a win. They can knock out Hocke/Kunkel with 5th or higher, as long as Pereira/Michaud don't win, in which case they'd need silver or bronze.

Efimova/Mitrofanov can't catch anyone in the Top 20 (who are competing), even with a win at 4C's.
 
Cpomfan said:
So about the rumor of Alisa and Misha getting married, this is what I found on the Norfolk County Public Records ... https://www.norfolkresearch.org/WwwImg/D0MF0001.PDF

The question is whether or not they are truly in love or in just in sham marriage in an attempt to go to the Olympics
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There's no mention of Alisa Efimova in this. It just says that Misha is married but we don't know to who. Unless there's an actual marriage record like there was of the Colorado ice dance teams, I don't think we have proof that they are married to each other. Even if they are married, I very much doubt that they can go to the 2026 Olympics, so...

I just want to celebrate their great skate at US Nationals and hope to see them do well at future competitions.
 
cailuj365 said:
There's no mention of Alisa Efimova in this. It just says that Misha is married but we don't know to who. Unless there's an actual marriage record like there was of the Colorado ice dance teams, I don't think we have proof that they are married to each other. Even if they are married, I very much doubt that they can go to the 2026 Olympics, so...

I just want to celebrate their great skate at US Nationals and hope to see them do well at future competitions.
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I just want to say that I’m a fan of the pair and truly wish them the best. I appreciate your perspective, and I’m sorry if my post came across the wrong way. That wasn’t my intention at all! However, unless it is something fishy that neither of them do not want others to know about, I do find it odd how secretive they are about him being married. Even Scott Moir opens up about being married and having kids with someone other than Tessa and that is with fan shipping them for decades.
 
Cpomfan said:
I just want to say that I’m a fan of the pair and truly wish them the best. I appreciate your perspective, and I’m sorry if my post came across the wrong way. That wasn’t my intention at all! However, unless it is something fishy that neither of them do not want others to know about, I do find it odd how secretive they are about him being married. Even Scott Moir opens up about being married and having kids with someone other than Tessa and that is with fan shipping them for decades.
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You don't have to apologize. I'm sure there's something they're doing, whether it's marriage or something else, to help them along with getting citizenship. I'm just struggling to see the point of whether they are married or not, in love or not, because I don't see how they will go to the 2026 Olympics regardless. For the 2030 Olympics, who knows if they'll still even be a team or in form by then.

I sincerely hope that Scott Moir can be open about his wife and kids at this point of his life. V/M were definitely coy about their relationship during their competitive career, stoking the fires of fan shipping for the benefit of their own public image (but also based on genuine love and respect that they had for each other), but they never had to deal with concerns about whether their citizenship was legal.
 
cailuj365 said:
There's no mention of Alisa Efimova in this. It just says that Misha is married but we don't know to who. Unless there's an actual marriage record like there was of the Colorado ice dance teams, I don't think we have proof that they are married to each other. Even if they are married, I very much doubt that they can go to the 2026 Olympics, so...
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The problem, though, is that there is now proof that Misha IS married which, sure, he's not obligated to make any information about his personal life public as a skater, but it certainly raises questions that he has NOT been open with this news given that his partner does not have a US passport and would need to be on an extremely fast timeline to acquire US citizenship in order to compete at the 2026 Olympics - a timeline that usually only happens due to marriage, and it still might be unprecedented.

From a public relations/communications perspective, I'm rather torn, because if it does turn out they're married, they're not really doing anything to set themselves up for public acceptance that this is anything but a business transaction. I'm no fan of social media ship-baiting, but they'd have done well to have followed the Neset-Markelov template, I suppose, of slowly letting their fans in on the notion that they're romantically involved and have been for awhile. As it is, they're just setting themselves up for backlash and criticism that they're taking a team spot from a team that is fully American already, especially if we only have two spots. Mind, I like them and think they're a fantastic team and I don't think we earn three spots next year without their contribution to the effort.
 
Karen-W said:
The problem, though, is that there is now proof that Misha IS married which, sure, he's not obligated to make any information about his personal life public as a skater, but it certainly raises questions that he has NOT been open with this news given that his partner does not have a US passport and would need to be on an extremely fast timeline to acquire US citizenship in order to compete at the 2026 Olympics - a timeline that usually only happens due to marriage, and it still might be unprecedented.

From a public relations/communications perspective, I'm rather torn, because if it does turn out they're married, they're not really doing anything to set themselves up for public acceptance that this is anything but a business transaction. I'm no fan of social media ship-baiting, but they'd have done well to have followed the Neset-Markelov template, I suppose, of slowly letting their fans in on the notion that they're romantically involved and have been for awhile. As it is, they're just setting themselves up for backlash and criticism that they're taking a team spot from a team that is fully American already, especially if we only have two spots. Mind, I like them and think they're a fantastic team and I don't think we earn three spots next year without their contribution to the effort.
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Thank you putting it better than I could ever have. While I respect cailuj365's statement and do find truth in it, him not being open about his marriage only raises more questions than answers for Efimova/Mitrofanov. Also, the recent article about them from the Olympic blog post "New pairs duo and Formula 1 fans Alisa Efimova and Misha Mitrofanov hit supersonic speeds en route to big Olympic dream", they dedicate an entire paragraph or two about them possibility going to the Milano Olympics. Why would they do this if they were not certain they will be eligible for the Milano Olympics to begin with.
 
Yeah, I get what both of you are saying, that it's obviously suspicious, but I just don't want to put in my mental effort to know what's going on. I think there's only one conclusion for Milano, and they're not going to be able to go. I read that same article too last week and how much they focused on 2026 Milano, and I just felt a bit sorry for them, because I think they will be in for a very rude awakening soon.

We'll find out soon enough what the status is for her citizenship. If by some miracle act of government or loophole Alisa DOES get citizenship and they qualify for the 2026 Olympics based on their performances, then I'm not going to be sad or angry on behalf of the other "fully American" pairs who skated worse, nor do I want the media to pry on what went down with E/M's citizenship process. Maybe that all sounds terrible and unethical, but I just want the best teams representing the USA to go.
 
As a fan, I think it's awesome if they are married. Maybe they fell quickly in love, didn't want to waste time, and got married. Maybe they got married and fell in love more gradually - after all what is more romantic than helping each other achieve their Olympic dreams?

In any case, they are fully consenting adults, so I think it's terrific. Drama like this is part of what makes figure skating so exciting.
 
As the mortgage document mentions Misha and two others -his parents?- but not Aliza, I wouldn’t take it as proof of anything but that Misha, a grown man, is married. If he married his partner, she’s not included in the home ownership.
 
PRlady said:
As the mortgage document mentions Misha and two others -his parents?- but not Aliza, I wouldn’t take it as proof of anything but that Misha, a grown man, is married. If he married his partner, she’s not included in the home ownership.
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No. All that first page of the Note/Mortgage shows is Misha's spouse is not on the loan.

If Alisa doesn't have any income or permanent residence, she probably wouldn't be eligible to purchase a home in the US.

They could have added Misha's spouse to the title vesting without her being on the Note/Mortgage, but the first page of the Note/Mortgage provided only shows who are the "Borrowers". Title vesting has some nuances from state to state & I don't have a lot of experience with Massachusetts requirements, so I can't state for sure just in reviewing the first page of the recorded Note/Mortgage - that would be on the Deed of Trust.
 
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This I understand (I’m on the title but not the mortgage for the home I still unfortunately own with a long-divorced ex.) But I’m right in that it demonstrates Misha is married but not to who, right?
 
PRlady said:
This I understand (I’m on the title but not the mortgage for the home I still unfortunately own with a long-divorced ex.) But I’m right in that it demonstrates Misha is married but not to who, right?
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Yes, you are correct. That's why I was trying to be careful in how I replied. It cannot be presumed from the first page of the Mortgage document who Misha is married to.

I'm looking right now on the Norfolk County property records site to see if any other records in Misha's name exist - there are, and going through them to see what, if anything, I can find.

ETA - so, it looks like Misha & Tamara Chimanovitch (his mom?) purchased the house originally in Nov 2023. The loan then was a Fixed/Adjustable Rate mortgage. The new mortgage executed in December 2024 is a fixed rate since there is no Fixed/ARM rider attached. When they purchased the property in Nov 2023, the vesting was as follows: Mishael Mitrofanov and Tamara Chimanovitch, as joint tenants with rights of survivorship - which doesn't give us any information about either person's marital status.

I don't see a new recorded deed, so basically, Misha & Tamara purchased the house in Nov 2023, they then refinanced this past fall and his dad (Gennadiy Mitrofanov) was added as a borrower, but he has not been added to the property title. Different lenders will show vesting on the Note/Mortgage differently, which is why we now know that Misha is married. But, Misha's spouse is not required by Massachusetts law to sign or acknowledge any loan docs if not on the title.
 
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While I don't dismiss the potential blow-back if people lump two adults in the same category as couples whose marriage was suggested and planned before at least one of the was age-eligible, if a marriage passes muster with the INS, she'd be just as "real" an American as he. Like other naturalized Americans, she couldn't run for President, but I don't think she's planning to. It's really none of our business if they're married and why.

Other competitors or their coaches and families can try a :mitchell: campaign or what they did to Gorsha Sur before that, but that's between them and their Congresspeople and the INS, and it's not a good look, to say the least.

Nothing suggests that either of them has the money or political influence to make citizenship in time for Torino happen quicker than the average marriage between a US citizen and a non-citizen. Sometimes personal connections, though can push things through, but that's not something anyone can count on.
 
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So Misha did an interview with Match TV back in July 2023 (published in English on FS Gossips), and here he is already talking about Olympic goals and acquiring Alisa's citizenship.

Misha Mitrofanov: After the split (with Lu), I wondered whether I should continue. I decided that I wanted to pursue it further and started looking for a new partner a couple of weeks later. I realized that the dream of making it to the Olympics is still alive. I have to strive and do everything possible for that.

...Match TV: There might be problems with Alisa’s passport.

Misha Mitrofanov: We’re sorting that out. I think there won’t be any problems; we have a plan of action.
 
Well, I'm sad that Misha's loan history and refinancing history for his home has been examined with such scrutiny. Even if it's public record, it's information that we really didn't need to know. FYI, Tamara C is not his mom. Google search says his mom's name is Yelena. I don't know who Tamara is (nor do I care to know who she is), but I just don't want there to be misinformation.

In other news, I thought both Misha and Alisa did very admirably on their TV interviews speaking about the plane crash tragedy. Misha was such a rock when it was clear that Jimmy was getting emotional. What whiplash - to go from the happiness of winning your biggest title to grappling with such close training mates and their family members suddenly perishing. I'm sure this was not what any of the senior skaters were anticipating they were going to be talking about on TV the week after Nationals. Hopefully, they (and their coaches Letov and Ganicheva) have started to re-find the motivation, strength, and perspective to continue training and keep sight of their goals for the season. 4CC and Worlds are just around the corner. I love both of E/M's programs this year. I even really like this overwrought cover of "Je Suis Malade." 😅

I saw Emily Chan in the Euro stands cheering for A. Seleveko on the broadcast. At first I was surprised that she made the trip, but I remembered that her season is essentially done unless there are some withdrawals.
 
Heheheheh. You are sad that someone else took the time to examine the property records, but you went ahead and looked up who the person I mentioned is and the name of Misha's mom.

Hi, I'm a pot. I'm black. You're a kettle. You're also black.
 
Karen-W said:
Heheheheh. You are sad that someone else took the time to examine the property records, but you went ahead and looked up who the person I mentioned is and the name of Misha's mom.

Hi, I'm a pot. I'm black. You're a kettle. You're also black.
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LOL, I didn't look up Tamara. I just read your post and let Google AI search give me the answer for "Misha Mitrofanov parents" since y'all are questioning. His parents' names are actually on his Wikipedia page. Just let Misha live!
 
If they wanted to keep their marriage secret, there are many better answers they could have given that wouldn't have made people so suspicious. The press conference was a dead giveaway.

I'm surprised that they are keeping the marriage so secret, given that they're both adults. Wouldn't that make it seem more suspicious to the immigration authorities? But maybe they are fearing a Tanith Belbin / Gorsha Sur type backlash, so their plan is to unveil a surprise sekret passport at the last minute, giving the haterz no time to object. :mitchell: :mitchell: :mitchell:
 
I don’t really get the backlash to the speculation about their marriage. They opened the door when discussing going to the 2026 Olympics as if it’s a realistic possibility within their sights, but then refused to discuss how they get there.

If they didn’t want people asking obvious questions and trying to figure it out, then do one of two things - shut up or explain it.
 
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thvu said:
I don’t really get the backlash to the speculation about their marriage. They opened the door when discussing going to the 2026 Olympics as if it’s a realistic possibility within their sights, but then refusing to discuss how they get there.

If they didn’t want people asking obvious questions and trying to figure it out, then do one of two things - shut up or explain it.
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exactly you can't be like "we think we'll be good by milan" with no explanation when 2 of the US's flyest ice dancers have been fighting for citizenship for 84 years at this point and expect that people will go "yes this makes sense" and just move on
 
Private Citizen said:
I'm surprised that they are keeping the marriage so secret, given that they're both adults. Wouldn't that make it seem more suspicious to the immigration authorities? But maybe they are fearing a Tanith Belbin / Gorsha Sur type backlash, so their plan is to unveil a surprise sekret passport at the last minute, giving the haterz no time to object. :mitchell: :mitchell: :mitchell:
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This is part of what confuses me. Maybe those of members who have been through it can speak more to it, but hiding your marriage and not acting married in any way seems like it would be a red flag for immigration.

I also still don't understand how they think they are getting there since their timeline is too short even with marriage.
 
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