2024-25 ISU Grand Prix Assignments & projected alternates

Karen-W

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@Karen-W does not sleep.
I actually do, but last night definitely was suffering from insomnia.

Updating the Ice Dance Alternates list -
Alternates List -

1-10
Flores/Desyatov
Janse van Rensburg/Steffan (NHK)
Dupayage/Nabais (GPdF)
Harris/Chan (SCI)
Fabbri/Ayer (SCI)
Wolfkostin/Tsarevski
Soucisse/Firus
Tkachenko/Kiliakov (SkAm)
Bekker/Hernandez
Val/Kazimov

11-20
Manni/Roethlisberger
Bashynska/Beaumont
Pinchuk/Pogorielov (Finlandia)
Yoshida/Morita (NHK)
Lagouge/Caffa
Nosovitskaya/Nosovitskiy
Mazingue/Gaidajenko
Reitan/Majorov
Tanaka/Nishiyama (NHK)
Simova/Aksenov

21-29
Hensen/Lickers
Ramanauskaite/Kizala
Terreaux/Perron
Larson/Kapran
Dozzi/Papetti
Matthaei/Liebers
Ignateva/Szemko
Karnes/Carr
Ichilov/Kravchenko
 
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Karen-W

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Dobre

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Ok who do I have to bribe to get my favourite Irish dance team a Grand Prix assignment? I thought with them qualifying for the free at worlds they would be?
Hmm. I've not been analyzing the list this year.

But I'm looking at Karen's list & I'm thinking it's not that impossible. Four out of six teams above Soucisse & Firus on the alternate list already have one invite. Last season it seemed like about ten teams received the 1 invite, rather than teams on the bubble getting two. Also the two teams ahead of S&F that don't have one are both from the U.S. USA is going to let the domestic summer season play out, then put someone in for their host berth at SA and be maxed out in every country except China so S&F have a great shot at filling a non-American team opening at any other GP.

(Val & Kazimov would have an advantage for a late opening in Europe, since they train there).
 
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RoseRed

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Soucisse/Firus could get a spot, but there don't tend to be many WDs in dance, so I wouldn't bet on it. And in the past couple years it's been more common to give a team a 2nd spot than go down the list for a 1st spot when it comes to replacements.

In 2023-24, the dance WDs were:
  • Hawayek/Baker at Skate America – replaced by Smart/Diaz (2nd spot)
  • Wang/Liu at Cup of China – replaced by Shi/Wu (host pick)
  • Taschlerova/Taschler at Cup of China – not replaced
  • Hawayek/Baker at NHK – replaced by McNamara/Spiridonov (2nd spot)
  • Kazakova/Reviya at NHK – not replaced
So only two non-host teams got a spot: S/D getting a 2nd, and McN/S getting a 2nd while replacing another US team.

In 2022-23, the dance WDs were:
  • Nazarova/Nikitin at Skate America – replaced by Holubstova/Bielobrov (2nd spot)
  • Reed/Ambrulevicius at Skate America – replaced by Harris Chan (2nd spot)
  • Makita/Gunara at Skate Canada – replaced by Lauriault/Le Gac (host pick)
  • Nazarova/Nikitin at Grand Prix de France – replaced by Kazakova/Reviya (2nd spot)
Three non-host teams got spots: all 2nd spots, and one (H/B) replacing another team from their country.

In 2021-22, the dance WDs were:
  • Zagorski/Guerreiro at Skate America – not replaced
  • Portesi Peroni/Chrastecky at Gran Premio d'Italia – replaced by Moschini/Fioretti (host pick)
  • Wang/Liu at NHK – replaced by Shevchenko/Eremenko (1st spot)
  • Hawayek/Baker at NHK – not replaced
  • Galyavieva/Thauron at Grand Prix de France – replaced by Demougeot/Le Mercier (host pick)
  • Zagorski/Guerreiro at Grand Prix de France – replaced by Turkkila/Versluis (1st spot)
  • Galyavieva/Thauron at Rostelecom Cup – replaced by Reed/Ambrulevicius (2nd spot)
  • Kazakova/Reviya at Rostelecom Cup – not replaced
  • Kaliszek/Spodyriev at Rostelecom Cup – not replaced
This year had more WDs, and we did see a couple non-host pick teams pick up a first spot.

In 2019-20, the dance WDs were:
  • McNamara/Carpenter at Internationaux de France – replaced by Reed/Ambrulevicius (2nd spot)
  • Turkkila/Versluis at Rostelecom Cup – replaced by Tessari/Fioretti (1st spot)
  • Komatsubara/Koleto at NHK – not replaced
Two teams picked up spots, one was their 1st spot.

The 2021 Grand Prix was a weird year since not many teams were on the SB best list due to so much being canceled the previous season, which makes it hard to compare. For RC 2019, Tessari/Fioretti were 36th on the SB list from the previous season, so I'd guess not at the top of the list.

For this season, I'd guess SA would favour a North American based team, which could be Harris/Chan, Fabbri/Ayer, Soucisse/Firus or Bekker/Hernandez. For SC, if the team that WD was American I think there's a good chance they'd pick another team, if not then Soucisse/Firus, Tkachenko/Kiliakov and Bekker/Hernandez would be the teams in NA available. S/F's country change was contentious, don't know if SC cares about that now. France generally chooses teams training in Europe, so Janse van Rensburg/Steffan or Val/Kazimov. China, I'm never really sure what they'll do. Finland, I guess they'd also prefer a European team, so Janse van Rensburg/Steffan, Dupayage/Nabais or Val/Kazimov. NHK often picks someone near the top of the list. They could go for S/F as the first non-US team without a spot, but just as likely for them to pick one of the four teams with one spot above them.
 

YukiNieve

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The ticket sales information for overseas attendants for the NHK Trophy has been released.

I am not sure if there are other threads to post this?
 

Karen-W

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Updating the Women's Alternates list since Sarina Joos is assigned to JGP Latvia and Anna Pezzetta is one of the substitute entries. Since they have 8 JGP entries, one has to think that Pezzetta will probably get JGP Czechia when that entry list comes out next week.

Alternates List -

1-10
Aoki (SkAm)
M Kim
Pelkonen (Finlandia)
Lin-Gracey
Mikutina
Seniuk
Andrews
Ruiter (SCI)
Dupuis (SCI)
Seo

11-18
Ting
Choi
Miclette
Kawabe
Paganini
Everhardt
H Chen (CoC)
Sauter
 

Karen-W

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Liam Carr announced his retirement earlier today which means that Karnes/Carr are no longer a team and off the Ice Dance Alternates list. Also, Wolfkostin/Tsarevski are doing the JGP this season.

Alternates List -
1-10
Flores/Desyatov
Janse van Rensburg/Steffan (NHK)
Dupayage/Nabais (GPdF)
Harris/Chan (SCI)
Fabbri/Ayer (SCI)
Soucisse/Firus
Tkachenko/Kiliakov (SkAm)
Bekker/Hernandez
Val/Kazimov
Manni/Roethlisberger

11-20
Bashynska/Beaumont
Pinchuk/Pogorielov (Finlandia)
Yoshida/Morita (NHK)
Lagouge/Caffa
Nosovitskaya/Nosovitskiy
Mazingue/Gaidajenko
Reitan/Majorov
Tanaka/Nishiyama (NHK)
Simova/Aksenov
Hensen/Lickers

21-27
Ramanauskaite/Kizala
Terreaux/Perron
Larson/Kapran
Dozzi/Papetti
Matthaei/Liebers
Ignateva/Szemko
Ichilov/Kravchenko
 

Karen-W

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Also - didn't expect to see this on the JGP Latvia entries list but Adam Hagara is listed as the only substitute for SVK (Lukas Vlacavik is assigned). We'll have to keep an eye on the upcoming JGP entry lists but it does seem like Hagara might be going back to the JGP and could give up his GP assignment. Stay tuned...
 

jkl

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I was an ice monitor at this weekends Scott Hamilton Invitational. It is an NQS comp this year which brought in upper echelon coaches. One tidbit I was told is that the Skate Off for the Women’s TBD slot at Skate America will be held this week at Cranberry. The four women in the skate off are Starr Andrews, Sarah Everhardt, Clare Seo and Elyse Lin-Gracey. There are other women competing at Cranberry but these are the ones in the Skate Off. Champs Camp is the following week.
 

AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)

Get it Amber 😝
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I was an ice monitor at this weekends Scott Hamilton Invitational. It is an NQS comp this year which brought in upper echelon coaches. One tidbit I was told is that the Skate Off for the Women’s TBD slot at Skate America will be held this week at Cranberry. The four women in the skate off are Starr Andrews, Sarah Everhardt, Clare Seo and Elyse Lin-Gracey. There are other women competing at Cranberry but these are the ones in the Skate Off. Champs Camp is the following week.

This was fax worthy

:watch:
 

Karen-W

YMCA is such a catchy tune!
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I was an ice monitor at this weekends Scott Hamilton Invitational. It is an NQS comp this year which brought in upper echelon coaches. One tidbit I was told is that the Skate Off for the Women’s TBD slot at Skate America will be held this week at Cranberry. The four women in the skate off are Starr Andrews, Sarah Everhardt, Clare Seo and Elyse Lin-Gracey. There are other women competing at Cranberry but these are the ones in the Skate Off. Champs Camp is the following week.
Well, we like this tidbit! Now, if only we knew who was in the skate off for the Men's SkAm TBD spot - one has to presume it will also be at Cranberry this coming week. ;)
 

Rukia

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I was an ice monitor at this weekends Scott Hamilton Invitational. It is an NQS comp this year which brought in upper echelon coaches. One tidbit I was told is that the Skate Off for the Women’s TBD slot at Skate America will be held this week at Cranberry. The four women in the skate off are Starr Andrews, Sarah Everhardt, Clare Seo and Elyse Lin-Gracey. There are other women competing at Cranberry but these are the ones in the Skate Off. Champs Camp is the following week.
👀 👀 👀

I would love to see Sarah Everhardt in person. She intrigues me.
 

Karen-W

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Also worth noting that Lin-Gracey, Andrew, Seo & Everhardt are the 4 US women on the 23-24 SB Top 75 list and available as alternates for any GPs.

On the men's side, there are quite a few more - Torgashev, Hiwatashi, Kapeikis, Broussard, Naumov (already assigned to SkAm), Ma and Xie.
 

Karen-W

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Also - didn't expect to see this on the JGP Latvia entries list but Adam Hagara is listed as the only substitute for SVK (Lukas Vlacavik is assigned). We'll have to keep an eye on the upcoming JGP entry lists but it does seem like Hagara might be going back to the JGP and could give up his GP assignment. Stay tuned...
Confirmed with this week's JGP Czechia entries list - Hagara has elected to go back to the JGP, so we can expect that he'll relinquish his NHK assignment. Also, Jacob Sanchez competed at the US Junior Team Cup and has been listed on the JGP alternates list for both Latvia & Czechia, so it seems safe to assume he was not included in the GP selection pool. Updating the men's alternates list accordingly:

Alternates List -
1-10
Grassl (Finlandia)
Torgashev (GPdF)
J Lim (NHK)
Yoshioka (SkAm)
Carrillo (SkAm)
Hy Kim (CoC)
Samoilov (Finlandia)
Reshtenko
M Selevko
Hiwatashi (NHK)

11-20
Sadovsky (SCI)
Kapeikis
Le May
Y Chen (CoC)
Ha Kim
Tsuboi
Levandi
Broussard
Shmuratko
Nakamura

21-30
Naumov (SkAm)
Daniliants
Kataise
Starostin
Rakic (SCI)
Nordeback
Y Cha
Strommer
Hammi
S Lee

31-39
Zandron
Folkesson
Appleby
Guarino Sabate
Kulish
Ma
Rossi
Jagoda
Xie

For the NHK spot that Hagara has vacated - move Sadovsky, Kapeikis and LeMay into the 1-10 group as possible replacements. Best guess - probably Younger Selevko gets the nod but it could be Grassl.
 

LoisAGOEs

Active Member
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The new Grand Prix document uploaded last week states they’ve done away with the next 10 selection route, they have to follow the alternate list in order unless there are certain circumstances (maximum country spots used, injury, visa issues, etc).
 

Karen-W

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The new Grand Prix document uploaded last week states they’ve done away with the next 10 selection route, they have to follow the alternate list in order unless there are certain circumstances (maximum country spots used, injury, visa issues, etc).
I hadn't read the new GP doc carefully yet and missed that. That's an interesting decision by the GP host commission. I'd always gotten the impression they liked the flexibility of being able to have their choice of who they want from the next 10.
 

Karen-W

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So, here is the updated language regarding alternates for GP replacements:

The alternate list needs to be worked through in ranking order for the top 75 ranked Skaters/Couples according to their Season’s Best score (GP Points). All Skaters/Couples of the alternate list will be chosen in order of their ranking (excluding any skaters from Members already included in a maximum capacity and subject to extenuating circumstances). Extenuating circumstances include, but are not limited to, the availability of visas to enter the Host Country. A selection out of strict order must be approved by the ISU. A three (3) day response benchmark is granted for the respective answer of a skater/couple until the host country may pick another skater/couple for participation.

Skaters/Couples, who place first in any of the ISU Challenger Series events for 2024/25 and can prove to have skated the minimum Technical score as mentioned in paragraph 2.3, will be added to the alternate list, bottom ranked according to their scores. Pairs participating in Challenger Series competitions who earn the minimum GP points will be added to the alternate list as well.

Nice to have official confirmation that ALL pairs teams who participate in Challengers and earn the total score minimum are added to the alternates list since they've clearly been doing this the past two seasons.
 

Karen-W

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Also of note - Shimizu/Honda are assigned to JGP Czechia which means they are not eligible to fill the NHK host TBD spot. I don't think Japan has a 4th pairs team that is senior eligible so it seems pretty likely that spot will be assigned to someone else. The biggest question there is whether it goes to Danilova/Tsiba who are highest on the Alternates list or if it goes to Caldara/Maglio who were WS Top 24 at season's end and should have received a GP assignment on the initial go-round. As far as I can tell from their social media they seem to still be training but I'm not 100% positive.
 

hoptoad

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Hmm, I wonder what "bottom ranked according to their scores" means?

Bottom of what? And if it's according their scores, it wouldn't necessarily be at the bottom. . .

Also, wasn't there a situation of Grassl perhaps being suspended for not being available to drug monitoring?
 

Karen-W

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Hmm, I wonder what "bottom ranked according to their scores" means?

Bottom of what? And if it's according their scores, it wouldn't necessarily be at the bottom. . .

Also, wasn't there a situation of Grassl perhaps being suspended for not being available to drug monitoring?
Bottom of the alternates list.

For singles & dance a Challenger win gets you put on the bottom of the alternates list if you weren't already on it. If more than one Challenger winner is added to the bottom of the alternates list then they're ordered from highest score to lowest. So, say we have Kiibus win Lombardia with a score of 175.00, Taljegard wins Nebelhorn with a score of 160.00 and Samoldelkina wins Denis Ten Memorial with a score of 195.00 - they would be added to the BOTTOM of the Women's alternate list in the following order:

post-Lombardia - Kiibus
post-Nebelhorn - Kiibus, Taljegard
post-Denis Ten Mem - Samoldelkina, Kiibus, Taljegard

I am pretty sure, based on how it has worked the past two seasons for Pairs that the alternates list has worked differently and the new pairs teams that have earned a qualifying score are inserted onto the alternates list based upon their Challenger score from this season. We've seen teams that should have been at the bottom of the alternates list moved up very quickly and given second assignments ahead of lower-scoring teams. So, if we have a situation where Efimova/Mitrofanov and/or McBeath/Parkman score higher than 177.54 at John Nicks IPC, they would slide in ahead of Danilova/Tsiba who are at the top of the alternates list. And if they're between 166.01 and 173.53 then they'd slide in between Danilova/Tsiba and Bombardier/Mimar on the alternates list (presuming that Bombardier/Mimar were included as part of the initial GP selection list).
 

skateblessing

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Bottom of the alternates list.

For singles & dance a Challenger win gets you put on the bottom of the alternates list if you weren't already on it. If more than one Challenger winner is added to the bottom of the alternates list then they're ordered from highest score to lowest. So, say we have Kiibus win Lombardia with a score of 175.00, Taljegard wins Nebelhorn with a score of 160.00 and Samoldelkina wins Denis Ten Memorial with a score of 195.00 - they would be added to the BOTTOM of the Women's alternate list in the following order:

post-Lombardia - Kiibus
post-Nebelhorn - Kiibus, Taljegard
post-Denis Ten Mem - Samoldelkina, Kiibus, Taljegard

I am pretty sure, based on how it has worked the past two seasons for Pairs that the alternates list has worked differently and the new pairs teams that have earned a qualifying score are inserted onto the alternates list based upon their Challenger score from this season. We've seen teams that should have been at the bottom of the alternates list moved up very quickly and given second assignments ahead of lower-scoring teams. So, if we have a situation where Efimova/Mitrofanov and/or McBeath/Parkman score higher than 177.54 at John Nicks IPC, they would slide in ahead of Danilova/Tsiba who are at the top of the alternates list. And if they're between 166.01 and 173.53 then they'd slide in between Danilova/Tsiba and Bombardier/Mimar on the alternates list (presuming that Bombardier/Mimar were included as part of the initial GP selection list).

With the new changes of rules however, winning a Challenger will most likely make it impossible to get a GP spot now. If they had stayed with the old rule, chances was there for some events as long as they were able to be on top 10 on the alternate list. If i´m not mistaken, that is have Ziegler got one of the spots last season? I think it perhaps was something with Visa as well.

Now, for the event with the shortest alternate list (because of maxed out spots etc.) there are just 10 alternates on NHK Trophy in the womens field, which most likely be shorter once/if the Korean girls officially WD. However it really doesn´t help much when you will be on the bottom of the list and spots are given by the order. With the old rules you could potentially be selected because you would be top 10, so at least there was a chance, but now the one who wins the Challenger will have around 8-9 before then om the list, who will be offered the spot first. Most of the alternates doesn´t have a spot and would probably be offered a second spot according to the order before reaching the bottom of the list.

Maybe only for pairs it will help winning an early Challenger because of a shorter alternates list?

However, I would like to say that this new change is fair. But I think it´s maybe pointless to be put on the list now if you win a Challenger when there is no real chance of a spot.
 

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