2023-24 US Pairs Discussion - Chan you count Howe many teams we have?

[Stephanie]

Liu/Nagy have a bye to nationals with their NHK assignment (3 GP/Challengers: Autumn Classic, Skate America, and NHK).

 

[Karen-W]

Liu/Nagy have a bye to nationals with their NHK assignment (3 GP/Challengers: Autumn Classic, Skate America, and NHK).

They are replacing Chan/Howe at NHK who were WD earlier today.

 

[Sylvia]

Lachlan Lewer's update today on his Junior pairs partner : https://www.instagram.com/p/CzCRkraucTu/

After 6 weeks of Naomi being off the ice from surgery for a torn ligament in her ankle, we’re super excited to get back into training and finish out this season on a high note!!!

ETA that Naomi’s subsequent Instagram story caption says her injury happened in mid-August and “About a month later I got surgery to repair the ligament in my foot … I have been in PT and working really hard to get better and compete in the end of the season.”

 

[Jammers]

What's going on with C/H is one of them injured?

 

[Sylvia]

Spencer Howe had shoulder surgery in May.

ETA - the August 24 GS article that was posted in this thread has more info: https://www.goldenskate.com/chan-and-howe-its-just-the-beginning/

 

[Sylvia]

Happy Halloween from “Super” Spencer & Emily : https://www.instagram.com/reel/CzEv6e_RZgn/

ETA:

Coach Olga Ganicheva posted the same clip as an IG story plus another clip of them off ice captioned “Coming Soon”.

 

[Sylvia]

Ellie Kam/Danny O'Shea Fan Zone article by Troy Schwindt (published today, Nov. 2nd, before their GP debut tomorrow in Angers, France):

Kam and O’Shea Set High Goals for Grand Prix Debut Season - U.S. Figure Skating Fan Zone

Just a few hours after the ISU World Figure Skating Championships 2023 in Saitama, Japan, Ellie Kam and Danny O'Shea, along with their coach, Drew Meekins, sat down

usfigureskatingfanzone.com

 

[~tapdancer~]

I just watched P/F's skate at GP France. That is a wonderful program with all the potential in the world to be a show stopper. If only they could get their elements and levels. Hope they keep improving.

Also sorry that Ellie and Danny had to withdraw. Hope they are ok.

 

[Spiralgraph]

I just watched P/F's skate at GP France. That is a wonderful program with all the potential in the world to be a show stopper. If only they could get their elements and levels. Hope they keep improving.

Also sorry that Ellie and Danny had to withdraw. Hope they are ok.

I like P/F too but their inconsisitancy "will not hold them in good stead" to borrow a phrase from Dick Button. I wonder how much longer they will remain a team..

 

[Sylvia]

Also sorry that Ellie and Danny had to withdraw. Hope they are ok.

The ISU media advisory stated they had to withdraw on Saturday because "Kam sustained an injury in a fall in the morning practice."
I hope she will be OK for Finland in less than 2 weeks - guess we'll have to wait and see.

 

[~tapdancer~]

I like P/F too but their inconsisitancy "will not hold them in good stead" to borrow a phrase from Dick Button. I wonder how much longer they will remain a team..

Well, I think they match well but just can't seem to have a clean program. And it's more than just a mistake or two. It was the same with their program last year, great program, but doesn't work with errors. Do you think they are not planning to stay together? I wonder.

 

[Karen-W]

Regarding Plazas/Fernandez - I have no idea what their longterm plans are, but I do wonder if the jump issues are entirely her fault and I can't help wondering what she could accomplish with a taller partner. She's able to land the jumps and throws in practices at least some of the time, as evidenced by their IG posts, etc.

I was fantasizing during their FS today about her having a tryout with Siianytsia (not sure he and Haley Scott are still together - their joint IG account appears to have been deleted). She is only 23, so there wouldn't be any icky age issue, and I think she has so much untapped potential. Max - not so much because of his height is always going to make it hard to succeed except with the tiniest of partners.

 

[Willin]

I don't think it's a height thing - Sui/Han had no issues with both being similarly short and Cain/LeDuc had no issues with being similar heights but tall. I think the jump issues are just that - jump issues. I don't see anything inherently wrong with their jump technique other than her perhaps putting too much oomph into hers, and if he's strong enough to lift her as well as he does he's strong enough to throw her - especially since her problem seems to be too much power into jumps.

Honestly it just seems like the same old same old problems US pairs have had for years: confidence/timing issues with their jumps. Neither one of them has really competed at anywhere near this level before and they're not exactly training with big competition. I think they'd benefit from a) more experience b) finding good training mates and c) a good sports psychologist.

 

[skatingguy]

I don't think it's a height thing - Sui/Han had no issues with both being similarly short and Cain/LeDuc had no issues with being similar heights but tall.

Cain, and LeDuc had serious issues with jumps, and sometimes with pair elements because they didn't quite match height wise. They really struggled to land the more difficult throws at times.

 

[Willin]

@skatingguy Other than throws, P/F don't have a pair's element problem: they have some of the best lifts out there right now and their death spirals are average to above average. Cain/LeDuc's issues with their jumps was also not a height problem but rather a consistency issue - not to mention they were trying much harder SBS jumps than other teams, making the risk of error higher. These issues are not comparable.

 

[~tapdancer~]

I am hoping that P/F stay together and keep working hard. I still believe the potential is there for better.

 

[~tapdancer~]

Spencer Howe had shoulder surgery in May.

ETA - the August 24 GS article that was posted in this thread has more info: https://www.goldenskate.com/chan-and-howe-its-just-the-beginning/

Thanks for that Sylvia, I was wondering what was going on with them. Hoping they are at the point they need to be right now. Looking forward to seeing them on ice again.

 

[mtnskater]

Is Junior World Champion Sonia Baram skating with anyone now? She was reliable on toe and salchow.

 

[marshallpond]

Regarding Plazas/Fernandez - I have no idea what their longterm plans are, but I do wonder if the jump issues are entirely her fault and I can't help wondering what she could accomplish with a taller partner. She's able to land the jumps and throws in practices at least some of the time, as evidenced by their IG posts, etc.

I was fantasizing during their FS today about her having a tryout with Siianytsia (not sure he and Haley Scott are still together - their joint IG account appears to have been deleted). She is only 23, so there wouldn't be any icky age issue, and I think she has so much untapped potential. Max - not so much because of his height is always going to make it hard to succeed except with the tiniest of partners.

When they got together in 2020, Val couldn't do any triples. Yes, she won the Novice Collegiate, but that's a whole different beast than singles. She's been working with a singles coach to get those triples, but she is just learning them and consistency is not yet there. Often this leads to some shouting matches and crying in the middle of practice sessions.

Max may not have the height but he's farmboy-strong. And he is much better than Val in terms of jumping; that's why he was the junior pairs champion with his old partner back in 2016. Even after quitting the sport for years to get his pilot license, he could still jump. Well, at least he lands his jumps more often than Val

But this has always been their case - lifts and other pair elements are good, but it's like a coin toss-up if they will land their jumps or not. And sadly, often they do not.

 

[Sylvia]

So @marshallpond it sounds like you’re based in Canton?

Is Junior World Champion Sonia Baram skating with anyone now? She was reliable on toe and salchow.

Sonia has focused on singles this season - she qualified to compete in the Senior Women's event at the Pacific Coast Sectional on Saturday & Sunday.

The U.S. Pairs Final spans November 8-11 in Tacoma, WA (copying out the Senior & Junior SP starting orders below; results link is posted in the U.S. Sectionals competition thread in the Kiss & Cry section):

Senior Pairs SP starting order (to be livestreamed Friday on Peacock starting at 11:15 pm Eastern time):
1 Ellie Korytek, SC of New York / Timmy Chapman, SC of New York
2 Megan Wessenberg, SC of Boston / Edoardo Caputo, Individual Member
3 Nica Digerness, Broadmoor SC / Mark Sadusky, St. Moritz ISC //
4 Linzy Fitzpatrick, SC of New York / Keyton Bearinger, SC of New York
5 Isabelle Martins, Chicago FSC / Ryan Bedard, Northern Ice SC
6 Grace Hanns, Broadmoor SC / Danny Neudecker, Seattle SC //
7 Nina Ouellette, SC of San Francisco / Rique Newby-Estrella, SC of New York
8 Mazie McFarland, Skokie Valley SC / Jordan Gillette, Skokie Valley SC
9 Alisa Efimova, SC of Boston / Misha Mitrofanov, SC of Boston
10 Katie McBeath, Winterhurst FSC / Daniil Parkman, SC of New York

Junior Pairs SP starting order (Peacock on Thursday 4:20 pm ET):
1 Ashley Fletcher, Orange County FSC / Aaron Felberbaum, DuPage FSC
2 Sydney Cooke, Elite Edge SC / Matthew Kennedy, Patriot FSC
3 Audrey Park, All Year FSC / Carter Griffin, All Year FSC //
4 Adele Zheng, DuPage FSC / Andy Deng, Fort Wayne ISC
5 Saya Carpenter, Detroit SC / Jon Maravilla, Detroit SC
6 Reagan Moss, SC of New York / Jakub Galbavy, SC of New York
7 Melania Delis, All Year FSC / Jaden Schwab, St. Paul FSC

JGP Finalist pair Luke Wang and Olvia Flores have a bye; he is competing in the Junior Men's event on Saturday & Sunday.

 

[Karen-W]

Some notes about the junior teams who competed in the NQS but are not entered in the Pairs Final -

Flores/Wang have a bye to Nats as JGPF qualifiers.

Williams/Lewer - she is coming back from injury - it wouldn't surprise me if they are given an injury bye to Nats or at least given consideration for one of our 3 Jr Worlds spots, provided her rehab goes well.

Rivers/Rensing - are they still together? Last time they competed was Glacier Falls in July.

Smith/McPike - I think the word upthread was they're the only US Junior Team eligible for the YWOG, but I'd have thought the USFS would have still encouraged them to compete at the Pairs Final even if they won't be at Nats...

Junior teams (11)
Olivia Flores/Luke Wang ISP 154.52 (2nd place at JGP #3 Istanbul), 147.22 (2nd place at JGP #2 Linz), 123.40 (Glacier Falls) [JGPF - qualifies them for a bye]
Naomi Williams/Lachlan Lewer ISP 138.19 (Glacier Falls) [WD from both JGP #5 Budapest & JGP #6 Gdansk]
Adele Zheng/Andy Deng ISP 106.92 (JGP #3 Istanbul), 126.16 (Battle of the Blades)
Audrey Park/Carter Griffin ISP (though not yet listed on USFS' website) 119.67 (Golden West)
Sydney Cooke/Matthew Kennedy (ISU age-ineligible) 117.44 (Boston Open), 105.85 (Middle Atlantics)
Ashley Fletcher/Aaron Felberbaum ISP 111.47 (Boston Open), 97.76 (John Nicks IPC), 97.83 (Battle of the Blades)
Melania Delis/Jaden Schwab (ISU age-ineligible) 104.31 (Golden West), 88.94 (Glacier Falls)
*Reagan Moss/Jakub Galbavy 103.04 (Middle Atlantics) *eligible for the ISP in 2024-25 per Slovak federation release
Saya Carpenter/Jon Maravilla (ISU age-eligible but not yet listed in ISP) 99.54 (Broadmoor Fall Classic), 102.36 (John Nicks IPC)
Catherine Rivers/Nathan Rensing (ISU age-ineligible) 101.39 (Glacier Falls)
Cayla Smith/Jared McPike (YOG age-eligible) 78.97 (debut at Boston Open)

And looking at the Novice teams - 4 of whom will earn invitations to Nats... there is one additional team on the start list that did not compete in the NQS.

Novice teams (9)
Milada Kovar/Nickolai Apter 102.22 (Broadmoor Fall Classic), 93.24 (Golden West)
Taisiya Shapovalova/Sebastian Malczyk 88.60 (Boston Open), 98.00 (Golden West), 93.59 (Glacier Falls)
Baylen Taich/Michael Chappa 97.35 (Broadmoor Fall Classic)
Jolena Grohne/Reede Lunt 97.20 (Broadmoor Fall Classic)
Clara Finkelstein/Mark Williams 91.88 (Golden West), 78.43 (Glacier Falls)
Tallulah Tanner/Sam Herbert 88.95 (Battle of the Blades)
Joyce Lu/Wyatt Lu 88.22 (Golden West)
Anna Krasnopeeva/Mitchell Castelletti 67.03 (Broadmoor Fall Classic)
Tyler VanWagner/Patrick VanWagner 38.11 (Boston Open), 37.14 (Middle Atlantics)

Sofia Jarmoc/Luke Witkowski (both from SCoB)

 

[Sylvia]

Re. Williams/Lewer: AFAIK there are no medical or injury byes to Nationals (could an exception be made in this case?). I do think it's very likely they will be "given consideration for one of our 3 Jr Worlds spots, provided her rehab goes well."

And looking at the Novice teams - 4 of whom will earn invitations to Nats... there is one additional team on the start list that did not compete in the NQS.

Sofia Jarmoc/Luke Witkowski (both from SCoB)

Good! Both competed well in Novice singles at Easterns and have qualified for the National High Performance Development Team & Camp - Luke finished 3rd and Sofia 4th (Simon Shnapir coached both there).

 

[marshallpond]

So @marshallpond it sounds like you’re based in Canton?

Sonia has focused on singles this season - she qualified to compete in the Senior Women's event at the Pacific Coast Sectional on Saturday & Sunday.

The U.S. Pairs Final spans November 8-11 in Tacoma, WA (copying out the Senior & Junior SP starting orders below; results link is posted in the U.S. Sectionals competition thread in the Kiss & Cry section):

Senior Pairs SP starting order (to be livestreamed Friday on Peacock starting at 11:15 pm Eastern time):
1 Ellie Korytek, SC of New York / Timmy Chapman, SC of New York
2 Megan Wessenberg, SC of Boston / Edoardo Caputo, Individual Member
3 Nica Digerness, Broadmoor SC / Mark Sadusky, St. Moritz ISC //
4 Linzy Fitzpatrick, SC of New York / Keyton Bearinger, SC of New York
5 Isabelle Martins, Chicago FSC / Ryan Bedard, Northern Ice SC
6 Grace Hanns, Broadmoor SC / Danny Neudecker, Seattle SC //
7 Nina Ouellette, SC of San Francisco / Rique Newby-Estrella, SC of New York
8 Mazie McFarland, Skokie Valley SC / Jordan Gillette, Skokie Valley SC
9 Alisa Efimova, SC of Boston / Misha Mitrofanov, SC of Boston
10 Katie McBeath, Winterhurst FSC / Daniil Parkman, SC of New York

Junior Pairs SP starting order (Peacock on Thursday 4:20 pm ET):
1 Ashley Fletcher, Orange County FSC / Aaron Felberbaum, DuPage FSC
2 Sydney Cooke, Elite Edge SC / Matthew Kennedy, Patriot FSC
3 Audrey Park, All Year FSC / Carter Griffin, All Year FSC //
4 Adele Zheng, DuPage FSC / Andy Deng, Fort Wayne ISC
5 Saya Carpenter, Detroit SC / Jon Maravilla, Detroit SC
6 Reagan Moss, SC of New York / Jakub Galbavy, SC of New York
7 Melania Delis, All Year FSC / Jaden Schwab, St. Paul FSC

JGP Finalist pair Luke Wang and Olvia Flores have a bye; he is competing in the Junior Men's event on Saturday & Sunday.

Was in Canton when Evora/Peterson moved there in Sept 2020, bringing with them Max and Val. Tara and O'Shea very briefly were there until Tara decided to go pro. And Nagy was there before going to Hungary. But we moved last year.

 

[Amy L]

Re. Williams/Lewer: AFAIK there are no medical or injury byes to Nationals (could an exception be made in this case?). I do think it's very likely they will be "given consideration for one of our 3 Jr Worlds spots, provided her rehab goes well."

Isn't that how Digerness/Sandusky made it to Nationals last year?

 

[Karen-W]

Isn't that how Digerness/Sandusky made it to Nationals last year?

Senior is different from junior with regard to byes. Additionally, we didn't have a full field of at least 12 teams who had the TES mins and DigSad had easily met them at the NQS they did compete in during the summer, so I think that's why they were given an injury bye.

There aren't TES mins for juniors and with 7 teams competing in the Final+Flores/Wang, that's 8 teams. About the only way I could see Williams/Lewer getting a bye would be if one of the 7 junior teams competing at the Final this week cannot make it to Nats.

 

[marshallpond]

Heard that it's confirmed that Naomi/Lachlan are getting the medical bye to the Nationals. They are not in the Pacific finals (and Cayla/Jared are also not doing Pacific finals)

 

[marshallpond]

Rivers/Rensing - are they still together? Last time they competed was Glacier Falls in July.

They are not competing in the Pairs Finals in Tacoma

 

[Sylvia]

They [Williams/Lewer] are not in the Pacific finals (and Cayla/Jared are also not doing Pacific finals)

They [R/R] are not competing in the Pairs Finals in Tacoma

As can be seen in my post #380 above.

 

[Karen-W]

They are not competing in the Pairs Finals in Tacoma

No duh. The question was why... injury or split?

 

[Sylvia]

Maria Mokhova/Ivan Mokhov 'fluff' that was filmed at Champs Champ (uploaded on USFS' YT channel before they compete at Cup of China): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQD0dqh5w1Y

"Behind The Lens" videos (partial Skate America programs) uploaded by USFS within the past 3 days of:
Liu/Nagy's SP: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IE-JK6YRIA4
Liu/Nagy's FS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNT-nIOlfAY
Plazas/Fernandez's SP: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PV-M8_cm82k
Martins/Bedard's SP: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v47zbdDF5vY