2022-23 Pairs General Discussion - You Get a GP! You Get a GP! All of You Get a GP!

miffy

Bad Brit
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If when these teams paired up they didn’t know the age rules would be changed, and (depending which team) they either thought they could go straight to seniors or sit out one year internationally then I’m not against them being allowed to move up - or maybe one extra year in juniors and then move up early if they would have been old enough under the old rules. Otherwise the likelihood of them splitting seems very high, and there are so few pair teams now.
 

PRlady

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I’m in favor of grandfathering existing teams for a year, and perhaps lowering the pair girl age for seniors to 16 until 2026, to allow accommodation to the new rules.

There are always going to be varying relationships between partners. Daniel has a total older-brother vibe with Sophia that’s nice to see. Smith otoh was clearly annoying Deng and I think that was just a four-year gap. Kam/O’Shea looks icky to me but that’s just because he looks almost middle-aged. How much older is Stellato than her partner?
 

Karen-W

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I’m in favor of grandfathering existing teams for a year, and perhaps lowering the pair girl age for seniors to 16 until 2026, to allow accommodation to the new rules.
That would mean that both Baram/Tioumentsev and Murakami/Moriguchi would lose out on one international season, since Sonia and Haruna were only 13 at the start of this season. Ackermann/Harms would be able to move up in the 2024-25 season since she was 14 at the start of this season.

Frankly, I think it would be harmful to both BarTiou and MuraMori to have to sit out the pre-Olympic season - they would lose out on critical ISU points and Jr Worlds, which in turn impacts the GP assignments they get during the Olympic season. Pairs is already the smallest field at all of the GPs, so those spots are really limited. Sure, they're from GP host feds, so they'd certainly get at least a host spot, but there's no guarantee they'd get a second spot, especially if Russia is back by then.

The simplest way to deal with the issue is to issue a blanket "if the team was eligible and competed internationally as juniors during the 2022-23 season, they are eligible to remain in juniors until the woman is age-eligible for seniors."

I do think that the ISU needs to look at raising the maximum age for junior pairs men, perhaps in conjunction with raising the minimum age for junior pairs women, if the age difference is that much of a concern.
 

RoseRed

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That would mean that both Baram/Tioumentsev and Murakami/Moriguchi would lose out on one international season, since Sonia and Haruna were only 13 at the start of this season. Ackermann/Harms would be able to move up in the 2024-25 season since she was 14 at the start of this season.

Frankly, I think it would be harmful to both BarTiou and MuraMori to have to sit out the pre-Olympic season - they would lose out on critical ISU points and Jr Worlds, which in turn impacts the GP assignments they get during the Olympic season. Pairs is already the smallest field at all of the GPs, so those spots are really limited. Sure, they're from GP host feds, so they'd certainly get at least a host spot, but there's no guarantee they'd get a second spot, especially if Russia is back by then.

The simplest way to deal with the issue is to issue a blanket "if the team was eligible and competed internationally as juniors during the 2022-23 season, they are eligible to remain in juniors until the woman is age-eligible for seniors."

I do think that the ISU needs to look at raising the maximum age for junior pairs men, perhaps in conjunction with raising the minimum age for junior pairs women, if the age difference is that much of a concern.
But both those teams were already going to have to sit out one season under the old age rules. Yes, the timing of that season will now be more unfortunate in terms of the Olympics, but still they knew they'd miss an international season when they teamed up. So I think it's acceptable if they'll still have to do so. And imo there should be a limit on how old a male partner will be allowed in juniors, even under special circumstances. It would be pretty unfair to younger junior teams to have to compete against a couple teams with 23 yo men.

If they change the minimum ages for everyone that's a different story (although frankly I think under 21 is fine as a max age for junior competition).
 

LL22

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PART of the reason this age rule was changed was to avoid the issue that occurred at the Olympics i.e. no medals because there was a minor who had a doping issue.

It makes no sense to raise the age for single ladies to 17 but lower it for pairs. We will run into the same problem this rule change was trying to fix. It has to stay the same for ladies and pairs, otherwise this same scenario can happen again.

However, I am in favor of raising the Junior age for boys by one year. I had hoped they would do that covid year when many skaters aged out and there was no jgp season. It would give these skaters another year to compete. Two years of domestic events after that is not too bad. Alysa Liu did that I believe.
 

Karen-W

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Two years of domestic events after that is not too bad. Alysa Liu did that I believe.
Sure, it wasn't bad for Alysa Liu, who was competing in women's singles in a country with tons of women's singles skaters. And it would probably be fine for Baram/Tioumentsev who would have plenty of club comp opportunities in the US, even in pairs. But, it would leave teams like Ackermann/Harms and Murakami/Moriguchi with 2-3 domestic competitions at best over the course of a couple of seasons.

PART of the reason this age rule was changed was to avoid the issue that occurred at the Olympics i.e. no medals because there was a minor who had a doping issue.

It makes no sense to raise the age for single ladies to 17 but lower it for pairs. We will run into the same problem this rule change was trying to fix. It has to stay the same for ladies and pairs, otherwise this same scenario can happen again.
Except that

1) the WADA protected person age minimum is under 16, which is how RUSADA gave us the whole Valieva issue in Beijing, so changing the rule for senior pairs women to be 16 for one season only (the next Olympic season) would not leave us open to another potential doping scandal of similar nature,

and 2) the age change was in the works LONG before the doping scandal and we actually had the scoop on what the proposal was going to be in January 2022. There are multiple threads on FSU dating back to 2019 & 2020 pointing to the fact that multiple federations planned on submitting an age increase proposal, and the ISU's Athletes Commission were busy polling the athletes, coaches, and other stakeholders in the sport about an age increase during the fall of 2022.

At best, the Valieva doping scandal only served to solidify the willingness of most of the ISU member feds to increase the age minimum. And, there were a handful of delegates at the ISU Congress last summer who voiced concern (Papa Boris among them) about the impact the age increase would have on the pairs discipline, specifically juniors, but the rest of the Congress basically disregarded that and moved ahead with the age increase.
 

LL22

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Sure, it wasn't bad for Alysa Liu, who was competing in women's singles in a country with tons of women's singles skaters. And it would probably be fine for Baram/Tioumentsev who would have plenty of club comp opportunities in the US, even in pairs. But, it would leave teams like Ackermann/Harms and Murakami/Moriguchi with 2-3 domestic competitions at best over the course of a couple of seasons.


Except that

1) the WADA protected person age minimum is under 16, which is how RUSADA gave us the whole Valieva issue in Beijing, so changing the rule for senior pairs women to be 16 for one season only (the next Olympic season) would not leave us open to another potential doping scandal of similar nature,

and 2) the age change was in the works LONG before the doping scandal and we actually had the scoop on what the proposal was going to be in January 2022. There are multiple threads on FSU dating back to 2019 & 2020 pointing to the fact that multiple federations planned on submitting an age increase proposal, and the ISU's Athletes Commission were busy polling the athletes, coaches, and other stakeholders in the sport about an age increase during the fall of 2022.

At best, the Valieva doping scandal only served to solidify the willingness of most of the ISU member feds to increase the age minimum. And, there were a handful of delegates at the ISU Congress last summer who voiced concern (Papa Boris among them) about the impact the age increase would have on the pairs discipline, specifically juniors, but the rest of the Congress basically disregarded that and moved ahead with the age increase.
M/M train with Bruno Marcotte in Canada and also in Japan. If they are in Canada or travel to the US they are allowed to compete in all the local events. Which is far more than 2 or 3 events throughout the season. Germany has many local events as well, although these types of competitions are not as common in Europe as they are in the North America.

I said “Part” of the reason the age limit was raised.

It does not make sense to me to raise the age limit for singles but lower it for pairs which is the more dangerous discipline. It also encourages countries/coaches to pair very young girls with adult boys and that can be a slippery slope for abuse.

In the last two Olympic cycles there was hardly anyone under the age of 18 in senior pairs. I understand things change, however, I cant be alone in not wanting to watch a bunch of 14 year old girls and 22 year old boys skate to a contemporary love song or something of the like. I dont want pairs to turn into that, I think it would be negative for the sport. I love watching two adults portray a mood or characters, not watching an awkward program with triple elements.
 
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Karen-W

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M/M train with Bruno Marcotte in Canada and also in Japan. If they are in Canada or travel to the US they are allowed to compete in all the local events. Which is far more than 2 or 3 events throughout the season. Germany has many local events as well, although these types of competitions are not as common in Europe as they are in the North America.
MuraMori do not train full time in Canada. They were in Oakville last summer and then again for about 2 weeks ahead of Jr Worlds. You're making an assumption that they would be allowed to compete in domestic club comps in either the US or Canada while training here, but there's nothing to back that assumption up since they did not do that last summer and it's pretty rare for Japanese skaters, even ice dance teams, to do so.

Germany does have lots of local events, but how many of them have pairs competitions? Certainly not the same number as in the US or Canada during club competition season.
I said “Part” of the reason the age limit was raised.
Except that is not true. At all. At best, the Valieva doping scandal only ensured the age limit proposal would pass, but if you reviewed the ISU Athletes' Commission's polling data, you'd know there was widespread support, across all stakeholders, for the age minimum increase. It was likely to pass even if the Valieva situation had not happened.
It does not make sense to me to raise the age limit for singles but lower it for pairs which is the more dangerous discipline. It also encourages countries/coaches to pair very young girls with adult boys and that can be a slippery slope for abuse.
No one is suggesting that senior pairs women have a lower age limit beyond 2026. It is merely a discussion to help out the handful of teams that do exist, and existed before the age limit increase was implemented, from being out of international competition for so long that they break up instead.
In the last two Olympic cycles there was hardly anyone under the age of 18 in senior pairs. I understand things change, however, I cant be alone in not wanting to watch a bunch of 14 year old girls and 22 year old boys skate to a contemporary love song or something of the like. I dont want pairs to turn into that, I think it would be negative for the sport. I love watching two adults portray a mood or characters, not watching an awkward program with triple elements.
First of all, this is a discussion that mostly affects a handful of established junior pairs. Since you prefer the adults, just don't watch the junior competitions where these pairs that clearly disturb you are skating "awkward programs with triple elements." That's your loss, though most of us here would argue that none of the teams in question had awkward or inappropriately-themed programs and the triple elements they did attempt were well executed.
 

airgelaal

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I feel like it would be better for the sport if junior pairs teams were limited to no more than one throw triple and/or triple twist, as well as no more than one triple jumping pass per program. Junior pairs already do one less lift, which is good, and I think limiting the triples on the technical elements side would be beneficial if the age limits remain as they are or only current pairs teams are grandfathered in to whatever plan they come up with (and I'd require federatios submit a list of all current pairs teams they have who need to be grandfathered, whether theyve competed internationally or just domestically).
I also think that difficulty should be reduced. Let's be honest, most difficult lifts look ugly. Even when they are well executed. But this does not always happen. I think choreographic elements are a great choice for juniors. I mean lifts or even jumps.
For example, in synchronized diving, competitions begin with basic jumps. And it's not as easy as it seems
 

tony

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I dont want pairs to turn into that, I think it would be negative for the sport. I love watching two adults portray a mood or characters, not watching an awkward program with triple elements.
So otherwise this season in pairs has mostly been a total snooze for you, I guess? ;)

I don't know what everyone else is watching but in the men, women, and pairs segments especially, senior/age eligible skaters do not guarantee anything close to setting great moods and portraying characters.
 

LL22

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MuraMori do not train full time in Canada. They were in Oakville last summer and then again for about 2 weeks ahead of Jr Worlds. You're making an assumption that they would be allowed to compete in domestic club comps in either the US or Canada while training here, but there's nothing to back that assumption up since they did not do that last summer and it's pretty rare for Japanese skaters, even ice dance teams, to do so.

Germany does have lots of local events, but how many of them have pairs competitions? Certainly not the same number as in the US or Canada during club competition season.

Except that is not true. At all. At best, the Valieva doping scandal only ensured the age limit proposal would pass, but if you reviewed the ISU Athletes' Commission's polling data, you'd know there was widespread support, across all stakeholders, for the age minimum increase. It was likely to pass even if the Valieva situation had not happened.

No one is suggesting that senior pairs women have a lower age limit beyond 2026. It is merely a discussion to help out the handful of teams that do exist, and existed before the age limit increase was implemented, from being out of international competition for so long that they break up instead.

First of all, this is a discussion that mostly affects a handful of established junior pairs. Since you prefer the adults, just don't watch the junior competitions where these pairs that clearly disturb you are skating "awkward programs with triple elements." That's your loss, though most of us here would argue that none of the teams in question had awkward or inappropriately-themed programs and the triple elements they did attempt were well executed. of the teams in Montreal have and can compete at all the local events in Quebec and Ontario.


In Canada and the US, you can compete in local events if you represent a different country. All the dance teams in Quebec are from different Countries as well as pair teams from other countries training in the states are allowed to enter local competitions in both countries. Its happened many times already. So if MM are in Ontario they can compete if they want at any local event. All im sayin…

I was told by a former German skater that they dont have many events in general, but that often if someone wants to compete- i.e. pairs. They can do an exhibition. So at least the skaters get out there. But no, its not the same as NA and I didnt say it was. Just giving options.

Looks like we agree here. To quote you

At best, the Valieva doping scandal only ensured the age limit proposal would pass,
This is all I meant by “part”. It wasn’t approved until after the Olympics, so it played a part.

I hope that the discipline goes into a positive direction and that we dont see or hear of anymore abuse of young girls.

The junior teams were great, i never said otherwise. The last two warmups were promising. I fear what allowing a 16 year old girl and 22/23 year old boy in senior would create long term. Thats all.
 

LL22

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So otherwise this season in pairs has mostly been a total snooze for you, I guess? ;)

I don't know what everyone else is watching but in the men, women, and pairs segments especially, senior/age eligible skaters do not guarantee anything close to setting great moods and portraying characters.

IMO, This has been a great season of senior pairs. Ive enjoyed it very much and look forward to worlds.

Many teams this year are setting great moods and playing great characters. I very much enjoyed all the teams at the final who both played characters and set moods-as well both German teams.

Sorry you think all the skating this year is so boring. Or..

but in the men, women, and pairs segments especially, senior/age eligible skaters do not guarantee anything close to setting great moods and portraying characters.
Maybe you’ll enjoy next year more.
 

Karen-W

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I fear what allowing a 16 year old girl and 22/23 year old boy in senior would create long term. Thats all.
Again, where did ANYONE in this discussion suggest that grandfathering in a handful of current junior teams who would have been senior age-eligible under the old rules (and all of the women either 16 or 17 by the 2025-26 season) would become a long term solution?

You are trying hard, I'll give you credit, to make this into something it's not. Also, as the age limits currently exist, it is perfectly legal for a 15/16 yr old girl to compete in senior with a 22/23 year old boy, and it has been for years.

Let's look at the age gaps of greater than 6 years from teams that competed on the GP, Euros, 4CCs, or Worlds this season:
15 years - Beccari/Guarise
14 years - Kam/O'Shea
9 years - Miura/Kihara
8.5 years - Stellato-Dudek/Deschamps
7.5 years - Pereira/Michaud
7 years - Efimova/Blommaert and Osipova/Epstein
6.5 years - Ghilardi/Ambrosini and Zhang/Yang
6 years - the Mokhovs and Metelkina/Parkman

Shouldn't the age gap be equally concerning to you regarding Pereira, Zhang, Kam, Mokhova, Beccari, or Metelkina, none of whom are even 20 yet? Half of those partnerships have been around a lot longer than this one season. And some of the others formed when the female was 17 or 18 (Ghilardi, Miura, Osipova). Does that somehow make them less concerning to you?
 

zebobes

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What I think is interesting about the age range problems with pairs is that it shows that while pairs women have to be super tough, the number of years where you can be competitive as a pair girl is incredibly long, whereas for men, there is a need for a post puberty body in order to be strong enough. I do think there needs to be a better path for maturity for pairs, as there is a way for young dancers to grow and be competitive, but the standards for success in pairs make the discipline incredibly scary and unenjoyable to watch for juniors. There needs to be research done on how the requirements for each age range can best set up pairs for senior success, while the athletes transition into maturity. Perhaps if there were hard limitations on certain pairs elements in juniors, with a greater emphasis on performance, it would not create the incentive to have these pairs with big age gaps, and allow more teams to develop, who also have better basics that can help them in senior as well. The only problem is that if done poorly it could create a tough transition from Juniors to seniors... but pairs should definitely look at the development success on the dance side to see what can be done to make pairs better and a deeper discipline.
 

Karen-W

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What I think is interesting about the age range problems with pairs is that it shows that while pairs women have to be super tough, the number of years where you can be competitive as a pair girl is incredibly long, whereas for men, there is a need for a post puberty body in order to be strong enough. I do think there needs to be a better path for maturity for pairs, as there is a way for young dancers to grow and be competitive, but the standards for success in pairs make the discipline incredibly scary and unenjoyable to watch for juniors. There needs to be research done on how the requirements for each age range can best set up pairs for senior success, while the athletes transition into maturity. Perhaps if there were hard limitations on certain pairs elements in juniors, with a greater emphasis on performance, it would not create the incentive to have these pairs with big age gaps, and allow more teams to develop, who also have better basics that can help them in senior as well. The only problem is that if done poorly it could create a tough transition from Juniors to seniors... but pairs should definitely look at the development success on the dance side to see what can be done to make pairs better and a deeper discipline.
This is an interesting point you make. There are lamentations in the dance discussions about how the juniors are really unable to do a split junior/senior season with the vastly differing RD requirements between the two disciplines, but it also keeps the younger teams in juniors longer until they're really ready to transition to seniors. If pairs had a similar approach, where the types of elements that pairs teams were allowed to perform in juniors were limited in difficulty, with a stronger emphasis on developing better basics - like only allowing lifts up to a L3 and limiting the triples attempted (throws, jumps & twists) per program - would that keep senior-eligible junior teams from attempting the split seasons? I think it would be better for some of these teams, like Sierova/Khobta, who aren't ready for seniors yet, based on how they have struggled with the higher degree of difficulty with throws and SBS jumps in their senior programs.
 

zebobes

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This is an interesting point you make. There are lamentations in the dance discussions about how the juniors are really unable to do a split junior/senior season with the vastly differing RD requirements between the two disciplines, but it also keeps the younger teams in juniors longer until they're really ready to transition to seniors. If pairs had a similar approach, where the types of elements that pairs teams were allowed to perform in juniors were limited in difficulty, with a stronger emphasis on developing better basics - like only allowing lifts up to a L3 and limiting the triples attempted (throws, jumps & twists) per program - would that keep senior-eligible junior teams from attempting the split seasons? I think it would be better for some of these teams, like Sierova/Khobta, who aren't ready for seniors yet, based on how they have struggled with the higher degree of difficulty with throws and SBS jumps in their senior programs.

I think seeing the wisdom in the very different junior and senior ice dance took time to become obvious, because when there were fewer teams around, it seemed like such a pity some senior opportunities would be "wasted" because juniors couldn't do both. As the number of dance couples has grown, there is such a traffic jam of good teams at the top that in most cases, it really doesn't hurt for juniors to wait until they are ready. Even if you tried to do both, most junior teams would have trouble making the FS at Euros or Worlds, so the rush isn't really that worth it. Since the number of pair couples are so low, this kind of change would definitely cause a backlash at the beginning, but if done properly, hopefully it could cause pairs to grow, so that there wouldn't be ONLY four junior grand prix with a pairs competition.

Thinking about how it's possible for junior ice dance teams with partners of similar ages who start together very young (Tessa and Scott the most famous examples), how many pairs skaters in recent years to really "grow up" together? How do you even do pairs skills like overhead lifts well when you don't have the muscular strength yet? Does that kind of lifting, if started too early, stunt growth for the men? With dance lifts, there are so many varieties that it is possible for smaller guys to successfully lift their partner, but for pairs, the strict limitations of leveled elements really forces a certain type of physicality.

Perhaps Sui and Han could count as growing up together... I didn't follow skating before they started winning on the Junior Grand Prix, so I don't know when they started skating together, but even their great partnership has a lot of concerning points to it. There is always the question about if Sui's birthday was changed to allow her to compete a year earlier, and they have had to deal with a lot of horrific injuries. I remember after the Beijing Olympics when awful Chinese trolls were criticizing Sui, she clapped back about how they didn't know how much sacrifice was necessary from her, and posted a horrific clip of her crashing into the ice after a failed quad twist fall where Han completely missed the catch. She also said that she basically starved herself once it was clear that Han was done growing to control her growth spurt to make sure she wouldn't outgrow him (Which also happens to be why Moskvina is so tiny, but it was because of the political situation/lack of food in Russia while she was young, which caused her to be malnourished and not grow). If this kind of sacrifice is necessary to become great at this discipline, then maybe we have to wonder if this is really a sustainable discipline long term.
 

clairecloutier

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Growing up together as a pairs team is really rare in pairs skating these days.

Thinking of senior pairs competing internationally in the last few years, aside from Sui/Han, one of the few examples of an unrelated pairs team that started very young and eventually achieved high-level success is Haven Denney/Brandon Frazier. (And even Haven/Brandon had a 3-year break.) Another such team, potentially, is Sierova/Khobta of Ukraine, who teamed up around ages 11/14 and have been together 5 years. The only other recent examples I can think of, in terms of pairs who have grown up together, are sibling teams such as Crafoord/Crafoord and Mokhova/Mokhov. There are a lot of factors working against pairs growing up together. Of course, the biggest one is that you need just the right physical balance/compatibility between partners in pairs (even more so than in ice dance), and the chances of two kids growing up to have just that right balance as adults is probably not that high.

Looking at the bios of current top teams, you see that almost all pairs skaters start as singles skaters and then switch into pairs seriously in their teens. For men, the switch most commonly happens between 17-20 years old, which probably is not coincidental, as that's when they're physically strong enough to do lifts and other pairs elements. For women, they often switch a bit earlier, between 14-17, or sometimes younger in more competitive countries.

Pairs is a discipline that kind of requires maturity to be skated at a high level. The men or lifting partners need to be strong enough to do the elements. And, I'd argue that for long-term success, pairs women need to be personally assertive enough to advocate for themselves and place boundaries around what they're willing to do and not do (in repetitions, difficulty, practice expectations, weight pressures, etc.). This too requires a level of maturity (and of course coaching and institutional/cultural support).

Junior pairs is really just about getting exposed to the discipline and getting experience with some of the technique. As such, I think it's unrealistic to ever have high expectations of junior pairs. I wouldn't object to reducing the level of difficulty required in junior pairs, particularly in lifts. It would slow the development of top-level skills, but it might be to the athletes' long-term benefit. For men, I don't see why doing senior-level pairs skills at a younger age would stunt their growth, but what it can lead to is more injuries IMO, which may then shorten their careers. Some possible examples of this are skaters like Dmitry Rylov, Maxim Miroshkin, and even perhaps Brian Johnson, all of whom started pairs a year or so younger than average for men. So while it might be helpful for the future careers to learn complicated lifts at a young age, I wonder if it's also a bit of a physical risk for the men. And for the women, reducing the pressure to try triple throws and difficult lifts in juniors might, possibly, lead to fewer injuries and concussions for them.

Pairs skaters' careers can indeed be very long these days, once they are seniors. So it's worth thinking about trying to manage junior pairs to try to make that even more possible.
 

miffy

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I would like to see the minimums lowered, especially in Juniors. Maybe that’s just because our British junior pair were nowhere near it :lol: But there aren’t many junior pairs anyway so it isn’t like it would add loads of entries into JW. If it suddenly causes too many pairs to enter then they can look at raising it again, but I think only a few on the JGP didn’t make it so it doesn’t seem likely at the moment.
 

Karen-W

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Sylvia

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2 articles on Lia Pereira & Trennt Michaud before their debut at Worlds (re-posting here from the Canadian Pairs news thread):
An interview with Pereira/Michaud that I did at 4CCs:

GS article by Anna Kellar (March 15):

Ellie Kam & Danny O’Shea (Saitama will be his 2nd Worlds and the new team's 4th international together) were interviewed at U.S. Nationals by @Gina_FigureSkatersOnline and this article was published in Claire's blog before 4CC:
 
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Karen-W

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Interesting article by Tatjana Flade for Golden Skate about the options available to the ISU to deal with the age issue in junior pairs - seems there are at least two other teams, one from Italy and one from France, who are also affected by the age restrictions.


Apparently, the ISU Council can make an exception for existing teams and, per Rico Rex, the German fed will definitely ask for it to be made. I would anticipate the other feds would follow suit.
 

Hedwig

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the last sentence is interesting as well. I only ever heard before that B/T intent to split. but here it says they are committed to stay together no matter what.
 

Karen-W

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the last sentence is interesting as well. I only ever heard before that B/T intent to split. but here it says they are committed to stay together no matter what.
Oh, I think most of us assumed that they would split because of the age difference.
 

Sylvia

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the last sentence is interesting as well. I only ever heard before that B/T intent to split. but here it says they are committed to stay together no matter what.
Figure skating partners can always change their minds ;) and it's encouraging, and not at all surprising, to hear they are committed to their partnership after such a successful season together, especially considering how well they skated at Junior Worlds both before and after Todd Sand's heart attack.

Phil Hersh wrote a very good article on Deanna, published today:

ETA on Tuesday 3/21 - NBC Sports' Nick Zaccardi tweeted 2 screenshots of Hersh's Chicago Tribune article on Deanna from 2000! https://twitter.com/nzaccardi/status/1638211835961778176
 
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Karen-W

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2023-24 GP Projections coming in HOT now that we have our Worlds results!

*Last season, the GP Host Commission moved all skaters/teams up to seeded status if teams ahead of them at Worlds retired/split post-Worlds.

Worlds Results
Seeded 1-3
Miura/Kihara
Knierim/Frazier*
Conti/Macii
Stellato-Dudek/Deschamps

Seeded 4-6
Chan/Howe
Pereira/Michaud
Pavlova/Sviatchenko

Guaranteed 2 Assignments 7-10
Golubeva/Giotopoulos Moore
Hocke/Kunkel
Efimova/Blommaert
McIntosh/Mimar

After the WS are updated to drop the 2020-21 results entirely and reduce the 2021-22 results down to 70% -
Pairs WS Top 24 (unseeded from Worlds & not at Worlds) - guaranteed 1 GP (excluding junior teams and split teams)
Ghilardi/Ambrosini (3)
Danilova/Tsiba (9)
Tarasova/Morozov (10)
Kovalev/Kovalev (11)
Safina/Berulava (13)
Plazas/Fernandez (15)
Mishina/Galliamov (17)
Sui/Han (18)
Osipova/Epstein (19)
Roscher/Schuster (20)
Caldara/Maglio (21)
Laurin/Ethier (22)
Valesi/Piazza (23)

Pairs SB Top 24 (unseeded from Worlds & not at Worlds) - guaranteed 1 GP (excluding junior teams and split teams)
Ghilardi/Ambrosini (8)
Kovalev/Kovalev (14)
Smirnova/Siianytsia (15)
Kam/O'Shea (16)
Danilova/Tsiba (17)
Roscher/Schuster (18)
Plazas/Fernandez (19)
Laurin/Ethier (20)
Osipova/Epstein (21)
Beccari/Guarise (23)
Caldara/Maglio (24)

48 spots total -
20 guaranteed from Worlds results (MiuKih, ConMac, SDDes, ChanHowe, PerMich, PavSvia, GoluGM, HocKun, EfiBlom, McInMim)
14 spots likely to 7 teams (GhiAmbr, Les Kovs, PlaFern, LaurEth, SmirSiia, KamOSh, SuiHan*)
7-9 spots (DanTsi, TarMor*, SafBeru, MishGal*, OsiEp, RoSchu, CalMag, ValPia, BecGuar)
4-7 host spots - 1 SkAm TBD, 1 SCI TBD, 2 GPdF (VouGin, PieStrek), 2 CoC (PengJin, ZhangYang), 1 Espoo (Vaananen/Clerici)

Obviously, some things could change if KniFraz decide to stick around, but it seems pretty certain that there are a lot of teams who will be on the GP Alternates list, hoping for even 1 assignment:

SB Top 75 (only the top 45 have achieved the min total score of 133.29 and given how substantial this list is compared to last season, I don't think we'll see teams added unless they win a Challenger, like the other disciplines)
Danilova/Tsiba
Roscher/Schuster
Osipova/Epstein
Beccari/Guarise
Caldari/Maglio
McBeath/Bartholomay
Safina/Berulava
Mokhova/Mokhov
Zhang/Yang
Vouillamoz/Giniaux
Valesi/Piazza
Vaipan-Law/Digby
Gamez/Korovin
Piegad/Strekalin
Wang/Jia
Panetta/Thrasher
Simioli/Zarbo
Alteryd/Farand
 

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