2017-2018 Program Music and Choreographers

Meoima said:
According to her comments to Japanese media after the FS, Anna Karenina will be Medvedeva’s FS from now on.
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Thanks for the information.

At first I was disappointed because I loved The Leftovers OST piece and thought the program gave Med a young, refreshing vibe even if the program was still a work in progress. Then I saw the Japan Open FS and I think Anna Karenina lends itself much better to IJS skating with all the highs and lows and Med simply looked much more comfortable skating to it. It also has some of the excesses she's been critiqued for, but it makes so much more sense set to this music, theme, and character. I think it's a great fit and I look forward to seeing it in Pyeongchang. I hope Med will still use her original LP as an exhibition maybe with tweaks to the choreography so she can just skate to the mood of the music without all the excesses.
 
VIETgrlTerifa said:
At first I was disappointed because I loved The Leftovers OST piece and thought the program gave Med a young, refreshing vibe even if the program was still a work in progress.
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Med joined the "Battle of Notorious Self-destructive Women": Carmens, Satines, Black Swans, Roxxies, various Ladies of the Night and Tango Divas.....and now Anna. Only Kostner remains an Animal...:sheep:
 
VIETgrlTerifa said:
I hope Med will still use her original LP as an exhibition maybe with tweaks to the choreography so she can just skate to the mood of the music without all the excesses.
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I hope she keeps it as an exhibition only to see that beautiful dress again. Or maybe she could use that dress for her SP.
 
Meoima said:
Jose was an axx too as well so... it’s her fault for choosing him in the first place.
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It's not like she knew him at all when she decided she wanted to have sex with him. I don't think she would have bothered if she thought he'd be clingy, let alone a homicidal stalker. But she lived and died by her own code, accepted her fate in the cards, and didn't back down.
 
kwanfan1818 said:
Nothing self-destructive about Carmen, just because she wouldn't back down.
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You must thinking of Carmen Miranda. The Carmen i am talking about a) beat up her co-worker, b) seduced a soldier, ruined his career and had him face tribunal, c) hang out with thieve and smugglers, and d) paraded with a new lover in front of a man who lost everything for her.... That smells like little bit of trouble ... :D
 
Tinami Amori said:
You must thinking of Carmen Miranda. The Carmen i am talking about a) beat up her co-worker, b) seduced a soldier, ruined his career and had him face tribunal, c) hang out with thieve and smugglers, and d) paraded with a new lover in front of a man who lost everything for her.... That smells like little bit of trouble ... :D
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Don Jose was only in the military because it was that or prison, having killed a man in a fight: he's hardly an innocent creature. You might argue that she was destructive, although, it wasn't like she didn't warn him in the Habanera, where she told him exactly what she was and how she operated, which he found hot at the time, but self-destructive, no. She lived dangerously.
 
kwanfan1818 said:
Don Jose was only in the military because it was that or prison, having killed a man in a fight: he's hardly an innocent creature. You might argue that she was destructive, although, it wasn't like she didn't warn him in the Habanera, where she told him exactly what she was and how she operated, which he found hot at the time, but self-destructive, no. She lived dangerously.
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kwanfan1818 said:
It's not like she knew him at all when she decided she wanted to have sex with him. I don't think she would have bothered if she thought he'd be clingy, let alone a homicidal stalker. But she lived and died by her own code, accepted her fate in the cards, and didn't back down.
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Official libretto on "how it starts"...
https://www.naxos.com/education/ope...et&opera=Carmen&libretto_file=00_Synopsis.htm
"Set in Seville around the year 1830, the opera deals with the love and jealousy of Don José, who is lured away from his duty as a soldier and his beloved Micaëla by the gypsy factory-girl Carmen, whom he allows to escape from custody."

http://stageagent.com/shows/opera/198/carmen
"It is set in southern Spain and tells the story of the downfall of Don José, a naïve soldier who is seduced by the wiles of the fiery gypsy Carmen."

As to your previous "story variations"......Stop reading the likes of this twisted crap V V V..... it's not "PC", it's mental vomit regurgitation of a bored brain..
http://dropera.blogspot.com/2014/03/don-jose-misogynist.html
 
The "story variations" are in the novella by Merimee on which the libretto is based, and the original murder is alluded to in the opera as the crime/sin for which his mother forgives him. Bizet's librettists, Meilhac and Halevy likely also used Pushkin's "Gypsies," which Merimee translated into French, as the basis of the libretto.

ETA: Halvey and Meilhac got rid of Carmen's husband, but Carlos Saura, interestingly, added him back in his movie, even though he relied on much of Bizet's music, including a recording of Regina Resnik's, and followed much of the opera's plot as a play within a play.
 
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kimkom said:
Casey got me good this week when I was bending over blow drying my hair. Clearly, he thought it was playtime and bolted out of nowhere, wrapped his legs around my arm and sunk his teeth into me. :yikes:

ETA - Wrong freakin’ thread. I’ll leave it here if you want to see my cat bite though. :p
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ha ha ...what thread were u looking for? I did not know there was one for pets.
 
The big winner this season thus far isn't even a skater; it's Ludovico Einaudi, whose Experience (and Circles) have been used by so many of the junior and senior women, I can't keep track anymore (Angela Wang the latest).
 
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kwanfan1818 said:
The "story variations" are in the novella by Merimee on which the libretto is based, and the original murder is alluded to in the opera as the crime/sin for which his mother forgives him. Bizet's librettists, Meilhac and Halevy likely also used Pushkin's "Gypsies," which Merimee translated into French, as the basis of the libretto.

ETA: Halvey and Meilhac got rid of Carmen's husband, but Carlos Saura, interestingly, added him back in his movie, even though he relied on much of Bizet's music, including a recording of Regina Resnik's, and followed much of the opera's plot as a play within a play.
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Merimee’s novel is a relatively different plot, told by the author in-first person as an eyewitness traveler. Pushkin’s poem “Gypsies” is even more different as it stays strictly within a Gypsy Tabor travelling the empty steppes without much interactions from the outside and a story of husband and wife, gypsy Zemphira and a non-gypsy fugitive/vagabond Aleko living by “gypsy laws”, which Aleko breaks and is asked to leave by Zemphira's old-man father.

Pushkin’s peace inspired other stage works closer to the plot: A ballet created by Rachmaninoff called “Aleko”, and Leoncavallo’s opera “Tzigani”. Practically EVERY gypsy story has a crime of passion.... :D

Sure, elements of Merimee’s and Pushkin’s works are used as basis for “Carmen”, as well as “stories of Gypsies in Europe” in general, by admission of Bizet himself. But in the final version of Bizet’s “Carmen” opera, and ballet variation of “Carmen Suite”, Carmen is a trouble-maker who lives a dangerous life (therefore self-destructive), and Jose is a soldier, a naïve country boy, seduced by her, and driven to despair.

But, even if we take ALL preceding versions of “gypsy stories” listed, the Gypsy-girl in ALL of them, lives a “dangerous life”..:D

I agree there are complexities of the plot as far as “history”, but not in the Bizet’s “Carmen” stage story, which skaters try to present.

It’s good and great to discuss “history and reality” behind a theatrical piece, but I do not like the trend, where a group of specific people seeking out specific issues to promote their specific causes at any cost.

No, women are not always victims, and most men are not “misogynistic pigs” and “psycho-killers”… Because what’s next (given the current day madness)? Will you go into every theatre library and destroy the old Librettos showing “Carmen is seductress/Jose is naïve” and threaten them long enough to create fake “women’s liberation” version of Carmen? Will you insist that all theatre companies make Jose more evil and Carmen a victim? And if they don’t comply will you burn down theatres and crush the windows in the local supermarket?

If there is any PC-agenda in any of the above mentioned literary works about “gypsy tabors” it’s the “Noble Savage” idea in Pushkin’s and others’ works…. :lol:
 
I don't have to destroy any librettos: the backstory is referenced, however slightly, and the in the "official" libretto you quoted, there's no reference to naive, just a description of the action. The librettists combined characters from the novella and cut others out, the way movie screenplays that have great fidelity to characters do with novels, and the head of the Opera Comique resigned in protest because the subject was so raw. (The opera wasn't a fit for the venue, kind of like Disney presenting a Tarantino movie and then being shocked, shocked! by its content.) That doesn't change the character, no matter how many imposed characterizations and mischaracterizations there are in program plot summaries, which are often error-filled, especially those that contradict both the libretti and the music, but they, too, are a product of their times. I read and listen to them all the time, and sometimes I wonder if the person writing the script ever watched the work.

Don Jose was a guy of his times and a characterization by another culture, with its traditional stereotypes -- the Spanish hothead -- and having bar fights go badly and having the choice between jail and the military wasn't terribly unusual.

There is no need for a "women's liberation" interpretation of "Carmen," because it's all in the libretto and the music: she tells everyone up front in "Habanera" how she operates, which is that as soon as she loses interest, the guy is gone, she promises Don Jose nothing but a hot affair until she's bored and ready to move on because and when he refuses her refusal and confronts her and says "Come back to me, or I'll kill you," she tells him to do what he has to do, but she's not budging. Nothing homicidal or stalkery about that: I guess he just wanted to talk to her. Talk about him not having any agency. I must have missed the part where the gods dictated his fate. Oh, wait: that was Carmen in Act III.
 
Seerek said:
The big winner this season thus far isn't even a skater; its Ludovico Einaudi, whose Experience (and Circles) have been by so many of the junior and senior women, I can't keep track anymore (Angela Wang the latest).
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Crossposting this link from my recent post in the Secret Sources:

Per this warhorse list, compiled by xeyra from GS, we are currently at 9 programs by Einaudi.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...kfQJnBGUMg1LcFEUaim8QSizBQ/edit#gid=179095169

Which pales in comparison to the 20 La La Lands and 23 Moulin Rouges.

We also have 15 R&Js, 12 Carmens, 11 Swan Lakes, 11 Phantoms, 10 Les Mis, 10 Exogenesis, & 10 programs to Ghost. (Regrettably the number of Ghosts and Phantoms went up one just since I posted this link last night).
 
kwanfan1818 said:
I don't have to destroy any librettos: the backstory is referenced, however slightly, and the in the "official" libretto you quoted, there's no reference to naive, just a description of the action. The librettists combined characters from the novella and cut others out, the way movie screenplays that have great fidelity to characters do with novels, and the head of the Opera Comique resigned in protest because the subject was so raw. (The opera wasn't a fit for the venue, kind of like Disney presenting a Tarantino movie and then being shocked, shocked! by its content.) That doesn't change the character, no matter how many imposed characterizations and mischaracterizations there are in program plot summaries, which are often error-filled, especially those that contradict both the libretti and the music, but they, too, are a product of their times. I read and listen to them all the time, and sometimes I wonder if the person writing the script ever watched the work.

Don Jose was a guy of his times and a characterization by another culture, with its traditional stereotypes -- the Spanish hothead -- and having bar fights go badly and having the choice between jail and the military wasn't terribly unusual.

There is no need for a "women's liberation" interpretation of "Carmen," because it's all in the libretto and the music: she tells everyone up front in "Habanera" how she operates, which is that as soon as she loses interest, the guy is gone, she promises Don Jose nothing but a hot affair until she's bored and ready to move on because and when he refuses her refusal and confronts her and says "Come back to me, or I'll kill you," she tells him to do what he has to do, but she's not budging. Nothing homicidal or stalkery about that: I guess he just wanted to talk to her. Talk about him not having any agency. I must have missed the part where the gods dictated his fate. Oh, wait: that was Carmen in Act III.
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I’ll let go of “ideology”, we see things differently.

But there is still one thing I do not understand in your information. Where did you get the information that at the start of the story before meeting Carmen, Jose was in the army as a punishment to avoid “jail after a fight”?? (as an example of his initial violent tendencies vs. crime of passion towards the end).

I do not see any "traditional cultural stereotype of Spanish hothead" in "Jose".

The first “act of violence” is committed by Carmen, she TAKES OUT A KNIFE AND STABS HER COWORKER IN THE FACE…. And that’s how it all starts……

Here are links to wiki and one of the more elaborate productions of the opera.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3h-fP4zSH40

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carmen
 
Mama Don Jose sends a message via Michaela that she grieves for and forgives her son and is at home, sitting in the dark, waiting for him to come back. (Okay, she's not sitting in the dark, but the rest is in the libretto.) She forgives him because of the original backstory: he had to join the army after a knife fight -- parallels galore -- and couldn't be around to support her when stationed away from her village. Michaela, having been in love with Jose forever, is taking on his burden, and she goes both to the big city and later to the mountains into the gypsy smuggling enclave on her own to find him to deliver important messages; as a village girl, this would normally be beyond her pay grade.

Carmen draws first blood, but as to who started the fight, there's an entire half of the chorus that claims otherwise, and both sides of the chorus agree it got physical on both sides before any blood was shed. The best rendition of this is in Carlos Saura's "Carmen," done in dance.
 
Stolbova/Klimov, again, hit it out of the park with fantastic programs. Nothing was on their level last season, and nothing is again this season. This is going to be AMAZING when clean, I hope. Tessa Virtue could learn a thing or two from watching this...
 
MAXSwagg said:
Stolbova/Klimov, again, hit it out of the park with fantastic programs. Nothing was on their level last season, and nothing is again this season. This is going to be AMAZING when clean, I hope. Tessa Virtue could learn a thing or two from watching this...
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Tessa´s Carmen was a lot better than S/K, there is not point of comparison, even trying to compare them is ridiculous.
 
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Meoima said:
According to her comments to Japanese media after the FS, Anna Karenina will be Medvedeva’s FS from now on.
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I am glad she is finally skating to something different. I wish the program has a big ta-da ending though. Would work much better for the big Os.
 
Tessa is a little girl with a penchant for occasional crotch lifts and more-than-occasion sekret pregnancies; Medvedeva is the modern-day equivalent of Dolores Haze; Anna Cappellini is a baby; Bradie Tennell is a lock for the Olympic team; and Allezfred is a staunch enemy of free speech.

I love Olympic season FSU!!!

More on topic, I really hope Medvedeva has Averbukh "improve" her LP so it begins with someone in a thick Russian accent saying "Happy families are all alike; every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way" and adds a theme so it's about the Duggar family. Or the Dodds family. Or the Kardashians. Or a family that really likes raising its hands. Whatever's most politically salient.
 
kwanfan1818 said:
Mama Don Jose sends a message via Michaela that she grieves for and forgives her son and is at home, sitting in the dark, waiting for him to come back. (Okay, she's not sitting in the dark, but the rest is in the libretto.) She forgives him because of the original backstory: he had to join the army after a knife fight -- parallels galore -- and couldn't be around to support her when stationed away from her village. Michaela, having been in love with Jose forever, is taking on his burden, and she goes both to the big city and later to the mountains into the gypsy smuggling enclave on her own to find him to deliver important messages; as a village girl, this would normally be beyond her pay grade.

Carmen draws first blood, but as to who started the fight, there's an entire half of the chorus that claims otherwise, and both sides of the chorus agree it got physical on both sides before any blood was shed. The best rendition of this is in Carlos Saura's "Carmen," done in dance.
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What "back story"?????????!!!!!!! In your head or in some other "previous mythology" on which the opera is base?

Not as much as I want to win an argument, but to make sure there are no “alternative reality” for my favorite opera (which I listen to quite often several times a month). I can sign the whole bloody thing from start to finish, if my voice did not make neighbors' dogs howl all night....

PLEASE show me where does it say or is indicated in Mother’s letter that Jose hurt/killed a man (and because of that is a homicidal maniac according to you), and serving in the Army is his punishment?

Jose is not in the army as a punishment. He is a Corporal (cabo, brigadier), which is a promoted rank above the First Class Private, a promotion one receives if remains in the army and passes the quality of service assessment (in Spain then and now).

Micaela brings a letter and message from Mother. Micaela gives part of the message in her own words, and then hands him the letter. She speaks Mother’s words: “I think of you day and night full of worries, but I forgive you (for the worries) and expect you back”. Then Micaela says “I am going to pass on to you a kiss from your mother as she asked me to do”. Then Micaela hands him the letter (which he partially reads out loud) in which Mother tells Jose how wonderful Micaela is and she wishes he would marry her.

Jose is naïve innocent man who takes his duties seriously.

Prior to that, a superior ranked officer, Zuniga jokes with Jose about “chasing women” and Jose says “he does not have time for it, while in service”.

When later Carmen comes out and all men stick their tongues out, Jose is the only one who ignores her. Carmen notices his indifference and throws him a flower (as a challenge).

Carmen is trouble from the start, and does a lot of things to ruin Jose.

When she comes out and flirts with Jose (throws flower) she then sings the “love is a free bird”…… then there is a cat fight. Carmen knives another woman. Then both are detained by Zuniga. Carmen resists and refuses to answer questions and is arrested.

Then she seduces Jose into letting her escape. He lets her escape and goes to jail for several weeks.

Carmen goes back to her band of Smugglers, they are planning another heist. Carmen is in love for now and wants to wait for Jose (not join the band in a heist). Then Zuniga visits the Tavern and tells Carmen that Jose is released. Carmen flirts and dances with Zuniga. Then Escamillo the Torreo comes in, Carmen is still in love with Jose and refuses him.

Then Jose arrives, for a short visit before returning to the barracks. Carmen wants him to desert and stay with her. Jose wants to go back and finish service. She teases and provokes him into jealousy to make him stay, by telling that Zuniga flirted and she danced with him. Jose still refuses to stay. Carmen tells him to leave. Smugglers return, Zuniga runs in, Jose (angry over Carmen and jealous of her dancing with Zuniga) grabs Zuniga. Smugglers pull them apart and take away Zuniga’s weapons. It makes Jose part of an attack on a superior officer and his army career is finished. He has no choice but to stay with Carmen and Smugglers. Soon Carmen feels no love for Jose, and tells him “go back to your mother”…. Then she starts up with Escamillo…. Etc.

What she is doing is not “free love”. Free love is when one person in an equal relationship wants to end it, and the only loss is relationship. Carmen is a selfish, moody and destructive to herself and others, wench. She starts fights, causes fights, seduces, provokes jealousy, destroyed man’s career twice, ruined his relationship with family, and pretty much uses every man as it suites her.

I have no idea where in the plot of the opera, or in the texts for the songs, did you come up with “Carmen is the Victim, Jose is the Villain”…..

Every word of the opera text: English and French.

http://www.aria-database.com/translations/carmen.txt

Met’s step-by-step Libretto. http://www.metopera.org/Discover/Synopses/Carmen/
 
You're welcome to believe what you want. You're even welcome to put ridiculous words in my mouth, that I think Carmen is a victim :lol: Or that I think she is doing what you would define as "free love." :lol: Because pixels are free.

You will look for my son, my José, my child. You will search for my son, my José, my child.
And you will tell him that his mother And you will say to him that his mother
Dream night and day to the absent, Dreams night and day about the absent one,
And that she regrets and she hopes, And that she regrets and that she hopes,
that it forgives and that it expects; that she forgives and that she waits;
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MAXSwagg said:
Stolbova/Klimov, again, hit it out of the park with fantastic programs. Nothing was on their level last season, and nothing is again this season. This is going to be AMAZING when clean, I hope. Tessa Virtue could learn a thing or two from watching this...
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Really?

That free program music was mute worthy. Almost as mute worthy as Daleman's department store piano version of Gladiator.

I almost didn't notice their program as I kept staring at my ex-boyfriend Klimov's 1/4 inch starter-bun. Oyyyyyyyyyy.

I say let Trankov be Trankov and you be Klimov.
 
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