The Dance Hall 6: We're All Off Our Rockers 2018-2019

[laviemn]

I saw her twitter thread and recognized some poster from this thread commenting, attacking her and saying to her that she should apologize.

I just want to say that this is completely disgraceful. When you take part to a twitter bullying, you should be ashamed. She is human and this amount of hate hurts. Of course you can be angry with her (I note that haters hate her more than Guillaume, internalized sexism much ?), but directing your anger directly to her is not okay. AT ALL. Take a long look at yourself.

If you're certain it's someone who has posted on this thread, why not name them. If someone is going to be that heinous, why give them the courtesy of not identifying them.

 

[Viscaro]

@laviemn For many reasons actually. First, two people could share very similar names by coincidence, and I could be wrong in identifying the poster. Especially since when that poster wrote in this thread, she had an opinion that I disagreed with, but was still quite balanced and seemed open to debate in some degree, so the twitter bullying seems OOC. Second, everyone that is interested by who it is can actually check on the thread while the tweets remain, and make its own opinion. Third, I do not want to launch a witch hunt and bully someone else in return.

Also it applies to everyone that could have taken part in this twitter bullying and that I did not identify - twitter bullying is far out of the line.

 

[laviemn]

@laviemn For many reasons actually. First, two people could share very similar names by coincidence, and I could be wrong in identifying the poster. Especially since when that poster wrote in this thread, she had an opinion that I disagreed with, but was still quite balanced and seemed open to debate in some degree, so the twitter bullying seems OOC. Second, everyone that is interested by who it is can actually check on the thread while the tweets remain. Third, I do not want to launch a witch hunt and bully someone else in return.

Also it applies to everyone that could have taken part in this twitter bullying and that I did not identify - twitter bullying is far out of the line.

If you're not absolutely certain it's the same person, of course don't name them.

If you were absolutely certain, then there's reason to bring attention to that person and hold them accountable. Naming and shaming a bully can be effective in deterring other bullies, at least for people who post on this forum. Twitter is hopeless as you can get a lot of validation for being a jerk, especially if you're a witty or sassy jerk.

 

[Miloune]

I saw her twitter thread and recognized some poster from this thread commenting, attacking her and saying to her that she should apologize.

I just want to say that this is completely disgraceful. When you take part to a twitter bullying, you should be ashamed. She is human and this amount of hate hurts. Of course you can be angry with her (I note that haters hate her more than Guillaume, internalized sexism much ?), but directing your anger directly to her is not okay. AT ALL. Take a long look at yourself.

Gabriella is sadly often targeted on twitter, polemical article or not. They take every excuse they get to criticize P/C, and as Gabi is more vocal on social media and in the articles than Guillaume, she's their favored target. It's quite sad and maddening. Those people should get some reality check.

 

[sap5]

And I can’t help it, but unfortunately it colours my attitude to the skaters these trolls have hijacked. Even though I know it’s not reasonable.

For example, I saw a troll tweeting another skater ‘reaction gifs’ of their idolised skater smirking in the context of them harassing the skater. Goodness me. What it must make everyone feel.

It’s resulted in some skaters majorly scaling back their social media interaction and that’s a shame for everyone who did enjoy seeing what they posted.

Fandoms aren't representative of the skaters they fan. VM's fandom is a classic example -- most of that fandom are fans of a VM that doesn't exist. And from VM's own reactions to that, I think it drives VM crazy at times.

 

[sap5]

For me, the saddest part of the interview was Gabi's comment that they expect the future to be difficult because judges don't want one team to win forever. It's frustrating that sheer politics is so accepted in this "sport." If PC are the best, then they deserve to win, and if they're consistently the best for years in a row, then they deserve to win all those years in a row. They shouldn't have to lose just because judges don't want the same winner every year.

 

[elisa_p]

For me, the saddest part of the interview was Gabi's comment that they expect the future to be difficult because judges don't want one team to win forever. It's frustrating that sheer politics is so accepted in this "sport." If PC are the best, then they deserve to win, and if they're consistently the best for years in a row, then they deserve to win all those years in a row. They shouldn't have to lose just because judges don't want the same winner every year.

I agree with you on this. But P/C have benefited greatly with this scoring system over the years by being in the judges favor. But it must be frustrating for all the teams involved that what you do on the ice may or may not translate to a score. I wish the ISU would take a long hard look at ice dance judging but there’s probably greater chance of pigs flying.

Not related to this and don’t want to open up a can of worms but I find the female in a partnership usually gets the a lot of the “hate” on social media. Twitter is honestly a mess...I can’t think of too many female skaters who hasn’t had to deal with offensive comments and bullying at some point or another on there. It’s just awful.

 

[Enchanted]

Gabriella is sadly often targeted on twitter, polemical article or not. They take every excuse they get to criticize P/C, and as Gabi is more vocal on social media and in the articles than Guillaume, she's their favored target. It's quite sad and maddening. Those people should get some reality check.

Gabriella is more outspoken than Guillaume. Guillaume is more politically correct, so it is more difficult to find something to complain in his comments.

 

[yurokis40]

Papadakis is a sore loser like all french skaters remember Pechalat`s sour face at 2014 worlds, i hope they lose the olympics in 2022.

 

[allezfred]

Papadakis is a sore loser like all french skaters remember Pechalat`s sour face at 2014 worlds, i hope they lose the olympics in 2022.

Classy.

 

[laviemn]

Not related to this and don’t want to open up a can of worms but I find the female in a partnership usually gets the a lot of the “hate” on social media.

Ironically it's almost always a female fan who openly idolizes the female partner of their fave team as a paragon of feminist virtues that aggressively attacks the female partner of the team they hate. The degree of oblivious, hypocritical idiocy is really something.

 

[angi]

@laviemn For many reasons actually. First, two people could share very similar names by coincidence, and I could be wrong in identifying the poster. Especially since when that poster wrote in this thread, she had an opinion that I disagreed with, but was still quite balanced and seemed open to debate in some degree, so the twitter bullying seems OOC. Second, everyone that is interested by who it is can actually check on the thread while the tweets remain, and make its own opinion. Third, I do not want to launch a witch hunt and bully someone else in return.

Also it applies to everyone that could have taken part in this twitter bullying and that I did not identify - twitter bullying is far out of the line.

Since I assume you are referring to me (I'm one of the few to comment negatively on the interview), rest assured I'm not on Twitter and I will also never engage online with skaters, to debate this here is one thing, to approach skaters is another. I will say though that if someone approached Gabriella in a respectful way sharing what bothered them I think it's understandable but if she was attacked online that's unacceptable no matter how much I disagree with how PC conducted themselves in that piece.

 

[Viscaro]

Thank you for your answer I indeed thought it was you, since a twitter hater had a similar username. I am glad this was a misunderstanding and I was wrong.

Edit : and you are right of course debating here is indeed nothing like saying that stuff to the skaters directly !

 

[Golden1]

Edit : and you are right of course debating here is indeed nothing like saying that stuff to the skaters directly !

I only have a twitter account to read stuff and have never written a tweet myself but I think that it is totally okay to criticize twitter users on twitter directly. Simply telling someone that you don't agree or that you don't like their point of view is not bullying IMO. As soon as you have a social media account and post stuff there you open yourself up to criticism. To me bullying is something much more serious than posters saying that they think Gabi's comments were in poor taste or that Tessa isn't a feminist for not commenting on the Coughlin situation or Scott is horrible for having a girlfriend that is not Tessa or whatever. Personally I find these "OMG, you are the best! I love you! Please follow me! It's my birthday, please write to me..." followers much more annoying than the people who voice criticism (even if I don't always agree with it).
If you can't deal with negative comments especially as a famous person then you shouldn't have a social media account IMO.
As a teacher I deal with bullying in real life and on social media with my students almost every day and to me "real" bullying is something much more severe than what happened on Gabi's twitter account (at least from what I have just read).

 

[Viscaro]

I agree with you that Gabriella is not the only female ice dancer that had to face twitter's wrath. I don't really know what happens with the hate towards Tessa but I saw that she liked tweets defending her for living her creative life without Scott, so it must mean she had to face enough backslash to react. I also saw that some figure skaters had complained multiple times against the backslash they got (like Wagner, or Zagitova or recently the Bell case), seems that no one is spared.

If you can't deal with negative comments especially as a famous person then you shouldn't have a social media account IMO.

This is do not agree with. Most of us here are not celebrities (or are we ), we are indeed free to be or not be on social media. When you're a celebrity I feel like social media is part of your job. Having followers is important to get endorsements (and get more money from endorsement), to find more opportunities after skating, or simply to interact with the fans (that's also important for your career). If you take the Shibs for example social media is very important to them ! If Maia had face enough backslash for it to be healthier to close her social media account, it would damage her career to some important degree. Or exhibit B, Adam Rippon.

I feel like by the act on bullying, the bullies clearly want to make the victim inconfortable enough to not use social medias properly anymore. The goal clearly is to damage the victim's career and opportunities.

From what I read from Gabriella twitter I see a lot of time haters twisting what she is posting. The goal is clearly to discourage her to express anything and make her disappear from social media.

Like this tweet that was addressed to her :

This is real rich coming from a team that receives inflated scores every season. The dress was entirely YOUR fault. YOU were unprepared. OH and let’s talk about the scores at the Olympics too! Since when do sloppy twizzles and a poorly executed lift get perfect 10s? Spoiled brat.

(Keep in mind the poster found necessary that she receives a notification for it).

This one the poster doesn't found necessary to tag her, but you find it easily when you look for her name on twitter (and again, your rep on social media can be important for you)

Papadakis: I - Everyone else: Thanks for weighing in though (ironic image)

(source : https://twitter.com/charliejburness/status/1120784168978350083)
This tweet has the explicit goal of making her silent, which is to me textbook bullying.

Not all of the haters are this mean, but when you get posts like that at regular intervals criticizing your work or utterly dismissing you, it can affect you. And she got many of those kind of stuff today. Edit : You can watch a short interview of Sophie Turner to see that it can even lead to depression : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnjBAsAiCAA
And in the world in figure skating, many women have spoken on how they suffered from judgement about their appearance, sometimes leading to anorexia and leaving the sport.

The fact that many celebrities, and especially females celebrities, get that much negative feedback does not mean it is okay. It just mean that as a public we are just getting more used to it.

 

[Gris]

Ironically it's almost always a female fan who openly idolizes the female partner of their fave team as a paragon of feminist virtues that aggressively attacks the female partner of the team they hate. The degree of oblivious, hypocritical idiocy is really something.

I really doubt it. From what I saw at least, what they are doing is more like: Seeing some fancy pictures of a female skater - 'I declare (insert the skater's name) my legal wife' sort of thing. And yes, they also repost and 'support' feminist and in general, progressive causes yet on the other hand, they are more than ready to make a drama out of nothing, quickly claim the moral high ground, 'cancel' skaters they probably already dislike anyways, and try to manipulate everything to fit in their narratives. All of these gives me an impression that they are somehow dwelling in social media only, detached from interaction with real human beings (as their worlds seem to be in an absolute dichotomy) and their compassion is reserved solely for skaters they like. It's pretty paradoxical.

Scott is horrible for having a girlfriend that is not Tessa or whatever.

Wait, what? This must be from one of the few persons on the secret baby blog. I thought V/M's 'shipper' type of fans have moved on already since the Olympics is more than one year ago. As sap5 said earlier, perhaps what some people are really doing is idolizing a V/M that does not exist.

As for voicing one's criticism, it's totally fine if it's done in a civil and open minded way. I understand some people may feel uncomfortable reading this interview, and I agree that perhaps it could be worded in a less blunt way. But I found a lot of the criticisms were coming from persons who thought that this interview was out of ill will and targeting at V/M - which I disagree. I think people who were thinking this were more or less, as I said before, manipulate things to fit in their narrative, whether intentionally or not.

On a side note - yurokis deserves to be on everyone's ignore list.

 

[Peepsquick]

I agree with you that Gabriella is not the only female ice dancer that had to face twitter's wrath. I don't really know what happens with the hate towards Tessa but I saw that she liked tweets defending her for living her creative life without Scott, so it must mean she had to face enough backslash to react. I also saw that some figure skater had complained multiple times against the backslash they got (like Wagner, or Zagitova or recently the Bell case), seems that no one is spared.



This is do not agree with. Most of us here are not celebrities (or are we ), we are indeed free to be or not be on social media. When you're a celebrity I feel like social media is part of your job. Having followers is important to get endorsements (and get more money from endorsement), to find more opportunities after skating, or simply to interact with the fans (that's also important for your career). If you take the Shibs for example social media is very important to them ! If Maia had face enough backslash for it to be healthier to close her social media account, it would damage her career to some important degree. Or exhibit B, Adam Rippon.

I feel like by the act on bullying, the bullies clearly want to make the victim inconfortable enough to not use social medias properly anymore. The goal clearly is to damage the victim's career and opportunities.

From what I read from Gabriella twitter I see a lot of time haters twisting what she is posting. The goal is clearly to discourage her to express anything and make her disappear from social media.

Like this tweet that was addressed to her :

(Keep in mind the poster found necessary that she receives a notification for it).

This one the poster doesn't found necessary to tag her, but you find eat easily when you look for her name on twitter (and again, your rep on social media can be important for you)
(source : https://twitter.com/charliejburness/status/1120784168978350083)
This tweet has the explicit goal of making her silent, which is to me textbook bullying.

Not all of the haters are this mean, but when you get posts like that at regular intervals criticizing your work, it can affect you or utterly demising you. And she got many of those kind of stuff today.

The fact that many celebrities, and especially females celebrities, get that much negative feedback does not mean it is okay. It just mean that as a public we are just getting more used to it.

Very unfortunate!

 

[Tinami Amori]

Well we can go into a linguistic debate but in metropolitan French is definitively not funny... I live in France and I speak it the language like a native. Just a bit familiar. Dunno about Canadian French ?
Are you French ? Se planter in itself just means fail, or make a mistake... You have to add an adverb to give it the sense of failing spectacularly. Like the English word to fail actually. "Se planter complètement"="failing spectacularly". "Se planter":"to fail".

My original language is Russian, and to me "se planter" (in this context) in english means "to tank" or "to flop".

Regarding their interview: I prefer honesty to cliche answers/comments. But there is also "when, where, how, and why".

P/C have every right to speak about their feelings, thoughts and experience in public, especially if asked. We, readers/listeners, have the right to form opinions about their personas, especially if they give an interview intended to be published for skating fans to read.

Based on this interview i do not have a favorable opinion about P/C. I already thought that "off the ice" they are stuck up, obnoxious, pretentious, over rate their own importance and behave "entitled". This interview only confirms it.

Many athletes experience similar situations and feelings. It is not wise or polite to voice them, and for an athlete to officially admit to being "discomforted by the presence of a rival" and to "wish they fail" is an official and honest confirmation of being a "bad sport". When one "thinks it" - it's an assumption. Once you say it - it's a confirmation. "Bad sport" is considered "bad" in sports environment.

But they are of course free to be honest. They did not hurt anyone, or called for "action" on their placements.

 

[Peepsquick]

My original language is Russian, and to me "se planter" (in this context) in english means "to tank" or "to flop".

Regarding their interview: I prefer honesty to cliche answers/comments. But there is also "when, where, how, and why".

P/C have every right to speak about their feelings, thoughts and experience in public, especially if asked. We, readers/listeners, have the right to form opinions about their personas, especially if they give an interview intended to be published for skating fans to read.

Based on this interview i do not have a favorable opinion about P/C. I already thought that "off the ice" they are stuck up, obnoxious, pretentious, over rate their own importance and behave "entitled". This interview only confirms it.

Many athletes experience similar situations and feelings. It is not wise or polite to voice them, and for an athlete to officially admit to being "discomforted by the presence of a rival" and to "wish they fail" is an official and honest confirmation of being a "bad sport". When one "thinks it" - it's an assumption. Once you say it - it's a confirmation. "Bad sport" is considered "bad" in sports environment.

But they are of course free to be honest. They did not hurt anyone, or called for "action" on their placements.

Entitlement? where?
For the rest: " I already thought that "off the ice" they are stuck up, stuck up, obnoxious, pretentious etc..." ... did you meet them?

 

[Tinami Amori]

Entitlement? where?
For the rest: " I already thought that "off the ice" they are stuck up, stuck up, obnoxious, pretentious etc..." ... did you meet them?

I don't have to justify to you "why", only if chose to, and i don't. I have an opinion about them. Now they give this interview. They have the right to speak. They spoke their truth. Their truth is "we did not want to be in the same space and share a coach with another top team", "we're not happy that last season's top team is returning" and "we were hoping they mess up". My opinion, based on info they volunteered - they confirmed to be "poor sport".

 

[Peepsquick]

I don't have to justify to you "why", only if chose to, and i don't. I have an opinion about them. Now they give this interview. They have the right to speak. They spoke their truth. Their truth is "we did not want to be in the same space and share a coach with another top team", "we're not happy that last season's top team is returning" and "we were hoping they mess up". My opinion, based on info they volunteered - they confirmed to be "poor sport".

Wow, your French is really not that good, if THAT is what you understood.
My reading of your opinion (and you are welcome to it, this is a forum after all): "I really really did not like them before and I really really don't like them now". Fine. Moving on ...

 

[starrynight]

My impression is that a lot of the worst of the online trolls who concern themselves with ice dance are new additions to the skating fandom following the Olympics. Or maybe I didn't notice them beforehand. I'm a big Weaver/Poje fan, and there were never any noticeable number of weird trolls harassing them at all until the wave of these *fans* moved in en masse after the Olympics and then W/P ended up on the bad side of their uber matrix to the point where they can't really even use twitter anymore.

Much in the way the Davis/White vs Virtue/Moir rivalry eventually died off when something more immediate came along, I expect all of this will be replaced eventually. The question is how long it will all last. Maybe until a real competition for the 2022 gold medal starts heating up.

I do wonder if any other currently competing team has the ability to rally up such a fanbase. Even P/C don't seem to have the equivalent - maybe that might change if a protracted rivalry starts. No idea if Sinitsina/Katsalapov or Stepanova/Bukin could manage something similar.

 

[VGThuy]

Regarding this upcoming season's rhythm dance, watching Fosse/Verdon now and me rewatching and reliving the genius of dance that was Gwen Verdon on YouTube, I'm going to shill for any team that tries to recreate any of her dances. IMO, you can't replicate her actual dancing without CGI.

 

[elisa_p]

I don't think it's fair to say that only trolls or skating fans with preformed opinions about P&C have a issue with this interview. Lots of open minded skating fans who can appreciate their skating and uh..non crazy V&M fans might have been rubbed the wrong way by what she said and their opinions are just as valid. I don't think they're "manipulating the narrative". For myself personally this interview did not warm me up to them as competitiors but that's not because of my previous opinion of them. Nor does it negate some of the criticism I have of their skating or some of the lovely qualities I think they have as a pair and how much I can love and appreciate their Build a Home FD. And if someone can't see how this interview can be polarizing I'd be inclined to put them in the "uber" category and think they're way to sensitive of any sort of criticism of P&C. After all if the tables were turned and another team whether it be H&D, V&M, S&K etc came out and said that they wished P&C splatted across the ice I don't think it would received very well at all.

 

[Wyliefan]

True, but I think there's a difference between saying that they wish their competitors had splatted (which Gabi didn't say) and saying that she felt that way in the moment (which she did say).

 

[Peepsquick]

True, but I think there's a difference between saying that they wish their competitors had splatted (which Gabi didn't say) and saying that she felt that way in the moment (which she did say).

Exactly. Big difference!!!

 

[Alilou]

I don't think it's fair to say that only trolls or skating fans with preformed opinions about P&C have a issue with this interview. Lots of open minded skating fans who can appreciate their skating and uh..non crazy V&M fans might have been rubbed the wrong way by what she said and their opinions are just as valid. I don't think they're "manipulating the narrative". For myself personally this interview did not warm me up to them as competitiors but that's not because of my previous opinion of them. Nor does it negate some of the criticism I have of their skating or some of the lovely qualities I think they have as a pair and how much I can love and appreciate their Build a Home FD. And if someone can't see how this interview can be polarizing I'd be inclined to put them in the "uber" category and think they're way to sensitive of any sort of criticism of P&C. After all if the tables were turned and another team whether it be H&D, V&M, S&K etc came out and said that they wished P&C splatted across the ice I don't think it would received very well at all.

Yes this! I agree with all of it.
I can't even begin to imagine the vitriol that would be spewed here if Scott Moir had said what Gabby said.
Or what people would say if either Tessa or Scott said they were traumatized by not winning gold in Sochi.

 

[VGThuy]

I don't think it's fair to say that only trolls or skating fans with preformed opinions about P&C have a issue with this interview. Lots of open minded skating fans who can appreciate their skating and uh..non crazy V&M fans might have been rubbed the wrong way by what she said and their opinions are just as valid. I don't think they're "manipulating the narrative". For myself personally this interview did not warm me up to them as competitiors but that's not because of my previous opinion of them. Nor does it negate some of the criticism I have of their skating or some of the lovely qualities I think they have as a pair and how much I can love and appreciate their Build a Home FD. And if someone can't see how this interview can be polarizing I'd be inclined to put them in the "uber" category and think they're way to sensitive of any sort of criticism of P&C. After all if the tables were turned and another team whether it be H&D, V&M, S&K etc came out and said that they wished P&C splatted across the ice I don't think it would received very well at all.

Honestly, the way you twisted it around to make it about how people can't take any criticism of P/C and mentioned tables turning and if other teams said the same thing they'd be criticized, sounds like uber-speak. I mean aren't P/C being criticized now here and on Twitter? Don't V/M have major defenders who always come out to defend them when someone takes what one of them says or does the wrong way? I'm a fan of P/C based on their programs, but V/M are one of my top teams of all time and I love ice dance in general. I just have an issue with people acting like they never had less-than-admirable thoughts before when watching skating specifically. To me, it's fake. We've all been around fan culture in sports long enough to know that isn't true generally.

 

[Dobre]

In general, I think female ice dancers do take more heat than the male ice dancers do from female fans; and I think this is an unfortunate reflection of the fact that many women feel more comfortable critiquing women than men. Add to that, the whole "crush factor"--by which I mean that both female & male figure skating fans often have crushes on the guys.

But there are exceptions in ice dance, especially when the guys are the ones that talk more to the media. Scott, Zach, and Nikita probably all get more heat than their counterparts. (I'll abstain from saying whether I think they deserve it).

 

[Gris]

I don't think it's fair to say that only trolls or skating fans with preformed opinions about P&C have a issue with this interview. Lots of open minded skating fans who can appreciate their skating and uh..non crazy V&M fans might have been rubbed the wrong way by what she said and their opinions are just as valid. I don't think they're "manipulating the narrative". For myself personally this interview did not warm me up to them as competitiors but that's not because of my previous opinion of them. Nor does it negate some of the criticism I have of their skating or some of the lovely qualities I think they have as a pair and how much I can love and appreciate their Build a Home FD. And if someone can't see how this interview can be polarizing I'd be inclined to put them in the "uber" category and think they're way to sensitive of any sort of criticism of P&C. After all if the tables were turned and another team whether it be H&D, V&M, S&K etc came out and said that they wished P&C splatted across the ice I don't think it would received very well at all.

I agree with what Wyliefan said regarding this. I would find it problematic too if they said they were going into competition hoping their rival would make mistakes or that they wished their rival had failed to gift them an easy win after the competition. Honestly I don't think any elite team would think so though, everyone's priority is to focus on themselves.

The thing is, it was during a heated competition, their routines were finished, scores were set, there was nothing they could do and they were trailing behind. Gold was only possible if their rival was not perfect. Of course what has been said may make them look like bad competitors, but I think at that moment the desire to win was just too overwhelming and it's natural rather than ill will.

And where is this 'sensitivity of criticism' coming from? I debated about this and defended them because I don't think this particular criticism is totally fair. This doesn't mean I don't respect your opinion or I'm trying to invalidate it, and I don't think there is anyone trying to shut you up. And they are definitely not immune from criticism. By the way, I didn't find anything controversial in what Scott said after Sochi either. I thought he was overwhelmingly frustrated, emotionally drained and probably very puzzled at that point and this was, again, just human nature.

ETA: I don't think the online trolls or ubers mentioned refers to posters like you who voiced your opinion here - it mostly refers to social media fandom, which has recently turned into a place that is far from enjoyable.