The Dance Hall 6: We're All Off Our Rockers 2018-2019

[Peepsquick]

Well Twitter has become basically unusable due to the online bullying campaigns conducted against skaters by a couple of the more powerful online fandoms. As a side note, I wonder what skaters think when online trolls use their faces as their twitter avatars?

It makes me very uncomfortable and at times mad! There are real nutcases around! They spoil the genuine enjoyment of fans and are a real insult to the skaters.

 

[Gris]

Well Twitter has become basically unusable due to the online bullying campaigns conducted against skaters by a couple of the more powerful online fandoms. As a side note, I wonder what skaters think when online trolls use their faces as their twitter avatars?

True and Twitter fandom has evolved into a 'I'm superior to you because the skaters I like are better and more accomplished. Your faves can never' mindset which I find disturbing. As for the skaters, I guess they have more important things to care about than online trolls haha. After all they have real lives unlike Twitter fandom.

 

[starrynight]

It makes me very uncomfortable and at times mad! There are real nutcases around! They spoil the genuine enjoyment of fans and are a real insult to the skaters.

And I can’t help it, but unfortunately it colours my attitude to the skaters these trolls have hijacked. Even though I know it’s not reasonable.

For example, I saw a troll tweeting another skater ‘reaction gifs’ of their idolised skater smirking in the context of them harassing the skater. Goodness me. What it must make everyone feel.

It’s resulted in some skaters majorly scaling back their social media interaction and that’s a shame for everyone who did enjoy seeing what they posted.

 

[RoseRed]

I don't have a problem with them saying they were hoping Tessa and Scott messed up. It's not surprising that they would be thinking that. I think Gabriella put it well when she said that it's not about V/M, it's just that they were thinking of themselves. That's fair enough.

But when Gabby says she hopes journalists won't ask them about it in two years at the Games — unfortunately, I'm very confident they will.

 

[Peepsquick]

I don't have a problem with them saying they were hoping Tessa and Scott messed up. It's not surprising that they would be thinking that. I think Gabriella put it well when she said that it's not about V/M, it's just that they were thinking of themselves. That's fair enough.

But when Gabby says she hopes journalists won't ask them about it in two years at the Games — unfortunately, I'm very confident they will.

You are right, they will. Unfortunately!

 

[starrynight]

I think ice dance can send the skaters a bit crazy because to a large extent the results are out of the skaters’ hands.

You can’t really just think ‘if I hit my quad lutz next program I will win’ because it’s so political.

I think that there must also be big feelings of betrayal when the political momentum stops.

 

[Peepsquick]

And I can’t help it, but unfortunately it colours my attitude to the skaters these trolls have hijacked. Even though I know it’s not reasonable.

For example, I saw a troll tweeting another skater ‘reaction gifs’ of their idolised skater smirking in the context of them harassing the skater. Goodness me. What it must make everyone feel.

It’s resulted in some skaters majorly scaling back their social media interaction and that’s a shame for everyone who did enjoy seeing what they posted.

It is a blatant manipulation of people's emotions and because we are aware of the scheme, we really should be able to lay blame where blame is due. It's been a real heartbreak for me to see the skater's hard work diminished by the outright nastiness of some people.

 

[Zazy]

Viscaro, I think we'll have to agree to disagree. Let's just say that there's a difference between 'rater' and 'se planter' and the whole quoting herself plus repeatedly saying 'merde'... To me, she could have phrased it a lot better.

I think that there must also be big feelings of betrayal when the political momentum stops.

For P/C they clearly had the political momentum and it's a freak costume problem that took them down. In some ways that's worse, who are you supposed to blame in a situation like that?

 

[Viscaro]

Yeah I am a bit confused by people who use a skater image to be nasty. Like when they have a pic of the skater as a profile pic or gifs of Tessa and Scott smiling as if they were saying the terrible stuff the twitter poster is launching at Gabriella... I have to take a step back and remember that V/M are not arrogant bullies !! Their picture is being misused.

And of course, you cannot judge a skater by its craziest fans... most of us here would not have a lot of skaters left to love ! (Yeah, I am thinking about the two crazy PC fans commenting every YT ice dance video... I am happy they do not use P/C as profile pics)

 

[Peepsquick]

Viscaro, I think we'll have to agree to disagree. Let's just say that there's a difference between 'rater' and 'se planter' and the whole quoting herself plus repeatedly saying 'merde'... To me, she could have phrased it a lot better.

That is where you have a problem then, the form ... the level of language. It is not meant disrespectfully, it is Gabriella's "franc parler" and her style. There is a scrappiness to her way of speaking that seems completely at odds with her skating. It speaks to the complexity of human beings.

 

[Zazy]

That is where you have a problem then, the form ... the level of language. It is not meant disrespectfully, it is Gabriella's "franc parler" and her style. There is a scrappiness to her way of speaking that seems completely at odds with her skating. It speaks to the complexity of human beings.

It's not the 'niveau de langue', it's about acknowledging that, while it's natural to feel this way, it's not the nicest attitude to have. It's about respecting that your rivals have also worked really hard and showing them some respect. She only speaks in this jokey way in this passage, nowhere else. Someone earlier said that she was making fun of herself, not VM. Maybe so. But if messing up an element was so traumatic to them, it would be to others too. In the heat of the moment you're not thinking about their feelings - but a year later? I just don't think it's something you joke about (and she was very clearly joking/ being playful, I honestly don't understand how any native French speaker could argue that).

And clearly I have spent way too much time arguing over this. She was disrespectful but it doesn't deserve this many words. Can you tell I'm procrastinating my real-life tasks?

 

[Peepsquick]

It's not the 'niveau de langue', it's about acknowledging that, while it's natural to feel this way, it's not the nicest attitude to have. It's about respecting that your rivals have also worked really hard and showing them some respect. She only speaks in this jokey way in this passage, nowhere else. Someone earlier said that she was making fun of herself, not VM. Maybe so. But if messing up an element was so traumatic to them, it would be to others too. In the heat of the moment you're not thinking about their feelings - but a year later? I just don't think it's something you joke about (and she was very clearly joking/ being playful, I honestly don't understand how any native French speaker could argue that).

And clearly I have spent way too much time arguing over this. She was disrespectful but it doesn't deserve this many words. Can you tell I'm procrastinating my real-life tasks?

No jokey way here, it is a mis-read. You are missing the point ... We'll have to agree to disagree there. She was able to rebound from a traumatic SD to present an incredible Free Dance. She showed great poise throughout and there is not one moment where they showed ill-will or disrespect towards their competitors. They just allowed us a very honest glimpse of what it costs athletes to be able to compete.

 

[Dobre]

The Transition: Post 3
(Continuing my series of posts on the teams that have transitioned up from juniors over the past three seasons).

Put them together, and what do you get?

180.95 The Parsons-Nebelhorn
180.57 McNamara & Carpenter-Skate America
180.32 Lauriault & Le Gac-Skate Canada
180.22 Carreira & Ponomareko-Tallinn
179.78 Skoptcova & Aleshin-Tallinn
179.26 Lauriault & Le Gac-Worlds
178.64 McNamara & Carpenter-Ondrej Nepela
178.64 The Parsons-NHK
177.49 Carreira & Ponomarenko-Nebelhorn
176.66 McNamara & Carpenter-Helsinki GP
176.46 Lauriault & Le Gac-Finlandia
175.62 Evdokimova & Bazin-Europeans
174.35 McNamara & Carpenter-Inge Solar
174.21 Carreira & Ponomarenko-Rostelecom
174.04 Carreira & Ponomarenko-U.S. Classic
172.33 Lauriault & Le Gac-Europeans
171.46 Lauriault & Le Gac-Inge Solar
171.17 The Parsons-Internationaux de France
170.68 The Parsons-Lombardia
170.64 Lauriault & Le Gac-Internationaux de France
168.31 Evdokimova & Bazin-Tallinn
167.94 Shpilevaya & Smirnov-Finlandia
167.28 Carreira & Ponomarenko-Helsinki GP
164.66 Evdokimova & Bazin-Rostelecom
159.96 Skoptcova & Aleshin-NHK
159.67 Evdokimova & Bazin-Finlandia
158.65 Shpilevaya & Smirnov-Inge Solar (counted a fall)
157.13 The Parsons-Asian Open
154.42 Popova & Byelikov-Tallinn
152.01 Popova & Byelikov-Europeans
150.23 Sales & Wamsteeker-Skate Canada
147.99 Skoptcova & Aleshin-Skate Canada (counted a fall)
142.48 Sales & Wamsteeker-U.S. Classic
142.12 Ichilov & Davidovich-Europeans
130.45 Ichilov & Davidovich-Golden Spin
130.92 Ning & Wang-Four Continents
130.60 Ichilov & Davidovich-Finlandia
129.42 Calderone & Pappetti-Lombardia
118.39 Friend & Badaoui-Inge Solar
118.22 Friend & Badaoui-Four Continents
116.89 Ning & Wang-Asian Open

Thoughts: What are the odds, do you think, of having 5 SB scores in a row without anyone's second best score in between? This is probably reflective of why I have enjoyed following the young teams this season & last. Teams feel less "stuck" in the hierarchy, and there is a lot of room for proving themselves at this point in their careers. (Though--with the exception of C&P and S&A's scores from Tallinn--it also seems to me that head-to-head results were generally farther apart).

 

[deegee]

You call it honesty, and in some ways it is honesty, but it's also a bad display of sportsmanship. As someone said on Twitter, You wouldn't hear Shoma or Nathan saying how they wish Yuzu will make mistakes so they could win. It's not easy being in their shoes for sure, and the article shows how much they were (and maybe still are) lacking in the way they handled facing hard competition, but I prefer the "beat the best at their best" mentality over "watch and hope your biggest competition make mistakes" mentality.

good for you. you do that then when you're competing for a good medal at the olympics.

 

[starrynight]

I really don’t think the same psychology can be applied to men’s singles as ice dance.

Men’s singles live and die on the sword of those difficult jumps. I think it helps that they can process victories and losses as being within their control. Also skaters like Shoma, Nathan and Yuzuru know that they have to execute every time they skate. Totally different to dance.

 

[Dobre]

Very different. But not totally different. I think we can name plenty of controversial men's events over the past 10 years that were won by athletes who had lower technical base value in the performances they actually delivered than the guy(s) who finished below them.

 

[Spun Silver]

It's not the 'niveau de langue', it's about acknowledging that, while it's natural to feel this way, it's not the nicest attitude to have. It's about respecting that your rivals have also worked really hard and showing them some respect. She only speaks in this jokey way in this passage, nowhere else. Someone earlier said that she was making fun of herself, not VM. Maybe so. But if messing up an element was so traumatic to them, it would be to others too. In the heat of the moment you're not thinking about their feelings - but a year later? I just don't think it's something you joke about (and she was very clearly joking/ being playful, I honestly don't understand how any native French speaker could argue that).

And clearly I have spent way too much time arguing over this. She was disrespectful but it doesn't deserve this many words. Can you tell I'm procrastinating my real-life tasks?

My sense of this interview was that it came after many others where journalists asked them about the OG and they probably gave more PC answers. In this one they were finally speaking their real feelings -- and to a
Canadian outlet at that. Guillaume spoke of the OG being a traumatic experience, and I took that fairly literally. It's clear to me that athletes on this very highest level -- the ones who really aim at Olympic Gold and nothing less -- are beings of another order than an earthling like me. I can believe they were traumatized by coming so close yet only getting silver -- while the Shibs, who were battling for bronze, were thrilled to place third. It sounds as though they've been emotionally trapped in those feelings of failure in some sense (combined with the built-up tension they'd felt to find themselves training with their rivals) and felt almost physically freed to tell the truth, no matter what. I'm sure they need that sense of liberation to gear up for another OG, especially since they know their current place in the sun is in no way guaranteed.

I don't doubt that Tessa and Scott had similar feelings in 2014, and if they didn't talk about hoping Meryl and Charlie would blow an element, they made up for it with their talk about Marina's supposed favoritism. Also, there was an instant media rumor at the OG that bad judging gave D/W the win, so in a way V/M probably felt supported by that.

Admission: I wanted V/M to win in 2018 because they were the underdogs and (finally, after all the changes!) had the better programs IMO. And I was tired of P/C's dominance. So I'm not looking for trash talk about V/M. I just don't think that's what this was. It was catharsis after a defeat people like me can barely fathom.

I really do feel for P/C now because after two quads they're right, the judges could stop favoring them. The gap is narrowing. SinKats are rising. As Mathman over at Goldenskate used to remind us, Heavy lies the head that wears a crown. It's just high drama for fans, but the culmination of their careers and their fate for these skating stars.

 

[starrynight]

Very different. But not totally different. I think we can name plenty of controversial men's events over the past 10 years that were won by athletes who had lower technical base value in the performances they actually delivered than the guy(s) who finished below them.

Oh yes. But I think the environment right now is different because of the technical Arsenal all the top guys have.

 

[starrynight]

I can believe they were traumatized by coming so close yet only getting silver -- while the Shibs, who were battling for bronze, were thrilled to place third. It sounds as though they've been emotionally trapped in those feelings of failure in some sense.

I think that some people have concluded that bronze medalists are often the happiest because they are so relieved to have just got a medal. For all of the other teams that bronze might as well have been the gold medal.

Also - imagine how Aljona Savchenko felt having won 5 world titles and kept missing her chance at the Olympics time and time again.

 

[puglover]

What do I know - but after Russian success and the success of Russian dance coaches, these last 3 Olympics have seen dance won by non-Russian teams, and the last one by a NA coaching staff. How long before that changes? I personally think P/C are in a class by themselves but S/K and S/B are on the rise and we are still 3 years out. I do feel for P/C.

 

[Peepsquick]

I think that some people have concluded that bronze medalists are often the happiest because they are so relieved to have just got a medal. For all of the other teams that bronze might as well have been the gold medal.

Also - imagine how Aljona Savchenko felt having won 5 world titles and kept missing her chance at the Olympics time and time again.

Even though the public at Worlds is way savvier, when it comes to skating than the one at the OG.
Too bad Worlds doesn't have the same visibility. I feel to me more and more that watching skating events is mostly for fans in the know who purchase passes to watch skating events live. The protection of TV rights and the poor coverage of competitions on Tv networks (especially ice dance) is stunting the potential growth of the number of fans.

 

[RoseRed]

I think that some people have concluded that bronze medalists are often the happiest because they are so relieved to have just got a medal. For all of the other teams that bronze might as well have been the gold medal.

Also - imagine how Aljona Savchenko felt having won 5 world titles and kept missing her chance at the Olympics time and time again.

Yeah, it's often the case that the silver medalist is unhappy while the gold and bronze medalists are thrilled. That was true of all the figure skating events in 2018 except for the men, when they all seemed pretty happy. And it's always true of the team/head to head sports, where even if the bronze medalists were hoping for better, they still won a game to get their medal, whereas the silver medalists lost a game.

For individual sports, I think it depends a lot on the expectations coming into the event. In ladies, pairs and dance (+ the team event) there were two skaters/teams that were favourites, and one ended up winning and the other came 2nd. But in an event like the men's moguls, there was one very clear favourite in Mikael Kingsbury, so when he won the whole podium was happy. Or you have a case like dance at Worlds this year with one clear favourite, where the silver medalists were probably happier than the bronze medalists.

 

[Dobre]

Pang & Tong, I think, were thrilled with silver in Vancouver. Pretty sure Belbin & Agosto were thrilled with theirs in 2006. It really tends to depend on expectations.

I have a feeling that Papadakis & Cizeron, themselves, would have been a lot happier with silver if they felt they had had two great skates. Maybe not. I don't find it surprising that they were disappointed at the time after all the build up throughout the season, but I do find it sad that--at this stage--they still view it as a disappointment. A silver medal at their first Olympic Games. Can name a great many athletes that would be thrilled by such a feat. I would imagine the P&C that were competing back in 2014 would have been stunned and thrilled to know they would win silver in 2018. But I do think athletes always want to the two great performances. I know there are gold medalists who mourned the lack of them for years.

One of the reasons I was so thrilled for Sui & Han this year was that they had the great skate in their free at this Worlds. They had won in 2017, and it was a huge achievement after an injury filled season. But not what they were capable of. This year's competition...no matter what happens in the future with her feet or whether or not they can make it to Beijing...they will always have had this magnificent win and will always know they skated their best for it.

 

[Colonel Green]

Pang & Tong, I think, were thrilled with silver in Vancouver. Pretty sure Belbin & Agosto were thrilled with theirs in 2006. It really tends to depend on expectations.

I have a feeling that Papadakis & Cizeron, themselves, would have been a lot happier with silver if they felt they had had two great skates. Maybe not. I don't find it surprising that they were disappointed at the time after all the build up throughout the season, but I do find it sad that--at this stage--they still view it as a disappointment. A silver medal at their first Olympic Games. Can name a great many athletes that would be thrilled by such a feat. I would image the P&C that were competing back in 2014 would have been stunned and thrilled to know they would win silver in 2018. But I do think athletes always want to the two great performances. I know there are gold medalists who mourned the lack of them for years.

With Pang/Tong I'm sure they would have been thrilled with silver if you'd told them about it before the event started; I think at the end of the actual contest it was probably at least a mild disappointment since after Shen/Zhao's lift screwup versus their perfect performance they had to be at least entertaining visions of gold for a moment. But in the long run, yeah, silver is something they could be very happy with. But then, as you say, that just reinforces how much it's about expectations, and how changeable expectations are. At this past Olympics, I'd say that for most of the silver medalists that result was a disappointment (the only exception being maybe Shoma Uno); the bronze medalists pretty much all looked pleased as punch, by comparison.

I'm sure it would make a difference if Papadakis/Cizeron had skated better in the rhythm dance -- and really, it came down to the costume, which is even more arbitrary. They pretty much know the judges were ready to give it to them, but for that. It doesn't surprise me that that's something they'd have a hard time viewing positively, even with distance.

Though conversely, V/M did skate superbly when they won their silver medal in 2014, and they were still very burnt out and unhappy with how things went (though that went beyond just that event to building dissatisfaction with the coaching arrangements, etc.). Writing a happier ending for their competitive career was why they came back for Pyeongchang when most figured they were ready to retire.

Given the level of drive required to excel at this level, for a lot of people there probably is just no substitute for winning.

 

[barbarafan]

Viscaro, I think we'll have to agree to disagree. Let's just say that there's a difference between 'rater' and 'se planter' and the whole quoting herself plus repeatedly saying 'merde'... To me, she could have phrased it a lot better.



For P/C they clearly had the political momentum and it's a freak costume problem that took them down. In some ways that's worse, who are you supposed to blame in a situation like that?

God...maybe God doesn't like skating politics so he made the dress mishap happen to even the field.Even so some of the judges decided to just pretend it never happened and judged it like the last SD they performed flawlessly. Just saying

 

[Enchanted]

Gabriella has commented the interview on Twitter.

 

[starrynight]

To be honest, I took far more issue with that 2017 interview where P/C called latin dances tacky and strongly implied they were too artistic for compulsory patterns than with this interview about the Olympics.

Does it not convey a certain amount of humility that they knew Tessa and Scott would need to make a mistake in order for them to win? Rather than, for example, expecting to win regardless?

 

[deegee]

To be honest, I took far more issue with that 2017 interview where P/C called latin dances tacky and strongly implied they were too artistic for compulsory patterns than with this interview about the Olympics.

Does it not convey a certain amount of humility that they knew Tessa and Scott would need to make a mistake in order for them to win? Rather than, for example, expecting to win regardless?

i thought they said that latin dances translated to the ice often looked tacky (as in, not authentic) bc the way ones body is forced to move with the blades on the ice doesn't allow dancers to perform latin dances as they were meant? and i don't think they said they were 'too artistic'; just that they preferred the freedom of the free dance to the constraints of the compulsory patterns... they were simply stating their preference.

 

[Viscaro]

I saw her twitter thread and recognized some poster from this thread commenting and attacking her.

I just want to say that this is completely disgraceful. When you take part to a twitter bullying, you should be ashamed. She is human and this amount of hate hurts. Of course you can be angry with her (I note that haters hate her more than Guillaume, internalized sexism much ?), but directing your anger directly to her is not okay. AT ALL. Take a long look at yourself.

 

[clairecloutier]

I think skating fandom would be easier if people could stop looking at skaters as either perfect paragons or people who are totally objectionable. In real life, most people are somewhere in the middle, with both good traits and bad. Why do we expect skaters to be any different?