They might be fairly evenly balanced in their skills, with Nathan getting higher PCS and Ilia having greater technical content. I was just wondering who the top US man would be now if Nathan were still in the mix.Well, Nathan's total score in 2021 was 2 points higher than Ilia's in Boston. But 13 points lower than what Ilia scored in Montreal.... ?
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nguyhm
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This prompts me to rewatch Nathan's long program at 2021 World championship and I totally agree that it's one of the greatest men's long programs (in my book anyway - it's always been my favorite long program of his).
As for Nathan's ballet background I always appreciate his pointed toes (his glides are not the best but the "position" of his feet/skating boots is nice).
sk9tingfan
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The link is included in my initial response.
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On My Own
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I too think a lot of things are "?". Like how US Man Adam Rippon called Trusova's attitude after the Olympics "just as bad as her skating" and was praised for it.
I liked Adam's skating but agree that he can be rather harsh and tactless at times.
DreamSkates
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The BBC commentator rightly said it was "a slice of skating history!"
YukiNieve
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olympic
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He said that? ?
His behavior is not professional and not for a broadcaster, but if taken as talk between friends, it is a little funny. I think he and Ashley were going for that vibe in their show
Trusova’s skating for me was like watching someone on a trampoline doing a series of eye-popping maneuvers but IMO, nothing about it showed the beauty of the sport or emphasized the second mark
Aceon6
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I never watched Trusova for art. I watched a spunky jock just going for everything.
On My Own
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OK. I don't find meltdowns after years of abuse funny, I guess.
We agree on Nathan.
He did have better skating skills than Trusova though.
jlai
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He usually has good shorts that show off his multidirectional skating skills
On My Own
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One of the things that stood out to me with Nathan was that his quality of glide, as mentioned in another post, was genuinely not the best or I would say even good.
I was told a long time back that he was "young" and it'll improve. I told that person they're wrong. And they were wrong and I was right.
His weight transfer was never seamless, unless we want to pretend the slight improvements he showed were Olympic champion level I guess.
His step sequences tended to be choreographically rich though.
Vagabond
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? ? 
Oh, that kind of shorts! I was thinking of ? and wondering exactly how they could show off his skating skills. ?
jlai
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He could turn in both directions and can sustain steps in one foot pretty well.
You can’t do choreographically rich step sequences with poor skating skills. His ss during jrs was complimented on by commentators.
one of the best steps from him is the one during 2020-1 the flamingo short. You can’t do that with mediocre ss.
Now at worlds there were many skaters with great ss, so I can see why he is not a ‘standout’ so to speak
YukiNieve
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I see Jake Ueno is listed for Intermediate Men. I really liked his Spanish FS last season (he won the Pacific Sectionals for Juvenile Boys), so I am looking forward to his new programs.
AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)
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He said that? Was I under medicated that week?
On My Own
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As can most...?
I didn't say anything about him having 'poor skating skills', I only talked about his quality of glide. But I disagree - Eteri girls had loads of attempted difficulty in their steps, and their basic skating was never up to scratch.
In juniors?
That's what I mean.
Many pointed out in juniors that he had the "basics" when he was younger - and he did. They also said that he would build on those basics - which he didn't. Many also ended up seeing vast improvements in his quality of basic skating - which never happened. They were judging on potential, and that's it.
None of this is necessarily his fault. He and his team saw a simple opportunity that with the reduction in time for the LP, he'd have to cram as many quads as he can in 4 minutes, and therefore having particularly amazing basic skating is not just not a requirement, but actively a detriment, as it'd take more energy away from you.
But well, when people pretend this guy and that guy was "?", yeah, I don't care what the judges or "retired skaters" or "adult skaters" or "part time coaches and judges in our local back-alley overpriced skating club" on places like reddit and twitter think, especially when reigning OGM had more opportunity to control his own skating than a teen girl from Russia did.
Oh and if people ever question why I despise the Runthrough, look no further than comments like those from the halfwit "divas" that are Wagner and Rippon. Their own skating was shit and overscored.
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jlai
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His steps were good enough to make Kurt Browning comment on it, "I'm still thinking of that step sequence" after 2021 worlds long program. If other skaters (who you said can also do the same) get that comment, good for them.
He has better skating skills than Rippon or Wagner or some other US champs IMHO.
And glide isn't everything. I remember Tom Dickson who said of Jeremy Abbott (when asked about his amazing glide), who said he had issues with some sort of balance (can't rephrase it), and had to do figures to help with other aspects.
I think Nathan did do more two foot skating to conserve energy in long programs. True enough. I didn't say he was the best! He wasn't outclassed at any international competition in non jump categories as did some other US champs. I'd say that
At this point we should agree to disagree
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On My Own
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And? Did I say he has poor skating skills or that his step sequences aren't well performed or that he didn't have well choreographed steps?
Are you sure there haven't been many, many others who've not been able to do the same or better?
I said, and I stand by saying, that his glide remain flawed throughout his career, and that his basic skating never went from having a solid base to something more. Are you sure criticism from commentators doesn't exist? Are you sure that an apparent lack of criticism from commentators means that such criticism cannot be leveled, and be rooted in reality nonetheless?
Commentators can get it wrong many times, by the way, unless we want to publish a binder book of nonsense that some people have said. I wouldn't say Browning's commentary is usually flawed, but what exactly is the point of bringing it up?
And yes, MOST skaters who've made it to Olympics, worlds, 4CC, European, GP series, CS events, and much of the senior Bs can do one foot skating and multidirectional turns well. Literally it's a requirement for getting levels in your step sequences. It's the quality that differs. OTOH, we're talking about Nathan Chen who outscored Kagiyama and Uno and Hanyu and Brown (and Vasilijevs and Cha) on the skating skill score at OWG '22. Go look how THEIRS developed over the years, and compare it with Chen's.
jlai
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I'm not sure what your point is. I think we are talking about the same thing, except I was looking at the full side of the glass and your looking at the emptier side of the glass.
Yes, Kagiyama, Uno, Hanyu and Brown were the best in the SS business. But we know that the best skater skater doesn't always win.
we've had US champs in the past whose skating skills were clearly outclassed that it could be seen live and obvious. (e.g. Max, Adam, etc.)
Now we are back to the good tes garner good pcs argument, which is a bit of a beaten horse.
Karen-W
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You know it's the off-season when people are dredging up the old "Nathan had no skating skillzzzz" debate. 
YukiNieve
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Lucius nailed clean 4T and 3A for SP!
On My Own
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He was then summoned to Hogwarts, because he had to hear about something.
YukiNieve
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And then he nailed clean 4T-3T, 4T and 3A for FS! ?
Karen-W
YMCA is such a catchy tune!
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Wow! Do we know if he's going senior this season or if he's aiming for JGP assignments? I'd think that he could earn a nice SB at Cranberry Cup if he can lay down two more successful programs & put himself pretty high on the GP Alternates List - and put himself in the conversation for the SkAm host TBD spot.
peibeck
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His TES was high but his PCS looks like he needs to work on that area.
Of course consistency on the quads does seem to "magically" improve some skaters PCS. (Cough, cough Egadze comes to mind).
Wyliefan
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He's a Malinina/Skorniakov skater, or was until recently (I think he may have switched at some point?), so that's par for the course.
He switched to Malinina/Skorniakov in the summer/early fall of 2023. Has he switched again?
Wyliefan
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I'm not sure. His bio lists Roman Serov -- is that someone who coaches with M/S?
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