Was This Personal or Professional: (UHC CEO murder)

[genevieve]

What’s the thinking on this?

Not that he would be epsteined - that he will go out his own way. IDK about that but if that’s the plan it would explain some of the inconsistencies.

Also: it’s Reddit

 

[BittyBug]

Also: it’s Reddit

It's the best and worst of the internet all at the same time.

 

[sk9tingfan]

My friend and I were having a discussion about this and she pointed out that he is Italian and Catholic(as is she). She like he grew up with the traditional belief systen which included the saints, some of them martyrs. Our hypothesis is that he is trying to be a modern day martyr, and he is trying to right the wrongs of the downtrodden. His selected industry, healthcare because it affects all universally.

IMO, we both believe that the underlying issue was the election and trying to get the attention of all people regardless of the walk of life and pointing to those corrupt CEO's/companies and billionaires who are manipulating the public to do their bidding. It was a circuitous way of getting people to listen(wake up), even those who are too stupid that they voted against their best interest. Unfortunately (and I am not condoning what he did)his maneuver was way too late. We'll all have to live through the next four years; that is, if we ever get to vote again.

An article that references this theory:

What was the motive behind the murder of UnitedHealthcare’s CEO? It appears to be a ‘symbolic takedown,’ criminologist says

While unclear if Mangione had a personal grievance with UnitedHealthcare, it is clear that he had an ideological disdain for the industry.

news.northeastern.edu

 

[BittyBug]

My friend and I were having a discussion about this and she pointed out that he is Italian and Catholic(as is she). She like he grew up with the traditional belief systen which included the saints, some of them martyrs. Our hypothesis is that he is trying to be a modern day martyr, and he is trying to right the wrongs of the downtrodden. His selected industry, healthcare because it affects all universally.

I am also Catholic and of Italian heritage, and one of the very first things I was taught in my Catholic education is thou shalt not kill. Martyrs die for their cause, they don't kill for their cause.

IMO, we both believe that the underlying issue was the election and trying to get the attention of all people regardless of the walk of life and pointing to those corrupt CEO's/companies and billionaires who are manipulating the public to do their bidding. It was a circuitous way of getting people to listen(wake up), even those who are too stupid that they voted against their best interest. Unfortunately (and I am not condoning what he did)his maneuver was way too late. We'll all have to live through the next four years; that is, if we ever get to vote again.

This definitely belongs in PI.

 

[MacMadame]

What I find fascinating is that this guy was smart enough to elude police for several days, but also left behind traces. And when he was found he still had the gun on him. To me, this is someone who, on some level, wanted or expected to be found. And I agree with the latest Reddit post I saw that he will not live to see jail time.

Sometimes smart people are arrogant and it is their downfall.

 

[Miezekatze]

Articles like that baffle my mind as an European:

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/12/11/business/ceo-shooting-unitedhealth-security/index.html

Surely such quotes must be satire?

One executive at a major bank told CNN that the UnitedHealthcare CEO killing made plain the risk facing senior leaders in Corporate America.

“The big learning is that if you want to kill someone, you can kill them. It’s really scary but true,” said the executive, who spoke on the condition of anonymity. “It seems crazy that we’re just figuring this out.”

Surely there aren't really people who suddenly realize anyone can be shot when for once a really rich person is shot instead of some poor black guys or elementary school children?

 

[BittyBug]

Surely there aren't really people who suddenly realize anyone can be shot when for once a really rich person is shot instead of some poor black guys or elementary school children?

Yup, this is the extent of ignorance and extreme social inequality in the United States.

 

[Private Citizen]

I think everyone in the US realizes that they could be affected by random acts of violence, but this is the first time in my recollection that a CEO or executive has been specifically targeted by a murderer.

I can guarantee that all of the security in this article is not going to be paid for by cuts to shareholder returns or CEO salaries. It's going to be paid for via job cuts and cuts to wages (or wage growth) for the rank-and-file. Whatever Luigi Mangione thought he was doing, what he was actually doing is causing even more money to be spent on CEOs at the expense of workers.

Corporations are scrambling to protect their senior executives as police warn of an elevated near-term threat against business leaders. Boards are reassessing security budgets. And CEOs are being told to delete their digital footprints.

The stunning killing of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson in Midtown Manhattan last week has shaken C-Suites across the country, forcing leaders to ask themselves uncomfortable questions about their own preparedness for a threat landscape that appears far more serious than many realized just a week ago.

Phones are ringing off the hook at top-dollar security firms to keep the captains of industry safe.

[...]

Many firms will now increase corporate security personnel at offices and residences, deploy enhanced mail screening and focus on public events executives are attending, said Fred Burton, executive director of protective intelligence at Ontic.
[...]

An expensive proposition​

Experts say the UnitedHealthcare killing made clear that the security blanket that protects many top CEOs should be extended to their lieutenants.

[...]

“You must have security for all of your senior executives – and even your board members,” said George.

[...]

It’s also extremely expensive to extend the security blanket.

Security firms often provide extensive protections to keep executives safe, including physical security guards, online threat monitoring and analysis, cybersecurity defenses, at-home security and protection for spouses and other family members.

 

[Coco]

Waiting for them to hire that outside the box consultant who can show projections of security cost savings by improving customer experience.

 

[CantALoop]

Not that he would be epsteined - that he will go out his own way. IDK about that but if that’s the plan it would explain some of the inconsistencies.

Also: it’s Reddit

Why would someone who plans to off themselves plead not guilty and go through the court system if they don't plan on living any longer?

And I agree with the latest Reddit post I saw that he will not live to see jail time.

Seems like the prison is trying to do that, but it's not the other prisoners that are trying to kill him: "...inmates, who were watching him on TV, yelled out, “Luigi’s conditions suck.”"

 

[Coco]

If his family is paying for his attorney, they may be determining strategy.

 

[Rob]

Well the shell casings match the ghost gun in his possession.

I think everyone in the US realizes that they could be affected by random acts of violence, but this is the first time in my recollection that a CEO or executive has been specifically targeted by a murderer.

The President of United Airlines got a package from the Unabomber but it did not kill him.

 

[kwanfan1818]

It's not like security is infallible: JFK had the secret service when he was assassinated. But having full-time security is a reminder of fallibility and restrictions. Being targeted will never be as random as "driving while Black", where any Black person will do, but it will still have some impact to the CEOs' and their families' states of mind.

 

[SkateSand]

There is definitely anti health insurance CEOs sentiment out there right now. I live in Del Norte County, but I look at Humboldt County pages on Facebook and I guess the hospital in Eureka is not planning to replace their cardiac surgeon when he retires in January. There were an incredible number of angry comments, along with identifying the CEO involved and some support for Luigi.

 

[Cachoo]

This is the most complete report I’ve seen yet. It sounds like he was having medical/mental difficulties in college:

Months Before C.E.O.’s Killing, the Suspect Went Silent. Where Was He?

New details are emerging about Luigi Mangione’s growing impatience with “a capitalist society” and his search for refuge in the mountains of Japan.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Sparks]

This is the most complete report I’ve seen yet. It sounds like he was having medical/mental difficulties in college:

Months Before C.E.O.’s Killing, the Suspect Went Silent. Where Was He?

New details are emerging about Luigi Mangione’s growing impatience with “a capitalist society” and his search for refuge in the mountains of Japan.

www.nytimes.com

Thank you. A very informative read

 

[genevieve]

Compelling read.

This was interesting:

His relatives have not discussed when they last heard from him, or why they waited until Nov. 18 to file a missing person’s report in California.

Just a few days later, the police say, Mr. Mangione got on a bus that had originated in Atlanta, on his way to New York City.

Could be coincidence, or it could be that there was undisclosed prior contact that was lost in November, or contact in November that created urgency in the family.

 

[Vagabond]

This is the most complete report I’ve seen yet. It sounds like he was having medical/mental difficulties in college:

Months Before C.E.O.’s Killing, the Suspect Went Silent. Where Was He?

New details are emerging about Luigi Mangione’s growing impatience with “a capitalist society” and his search for refuge in the mountains of Japan.

www.nytimes.com

In May, he turned 26, meaning that he could have been kicked off his parents’ health insurance plan. The family has not discussed his insurance coverage, and has declined requests for interviews, but a representative for UnitedHealthcare said on Thursday that Mr. Mangione had never had health insurance through that company.

I'm not surprised.

 

[BlueRidge]

If the New York Times article is accurate, it appears the shooter did not have anyone in his family who was harmed by denial of care by an insurance company or who went bankrupt because of denial of claims; it seems that he was able to get the surgery he needed for his back and that it was successful.

It seems like a lot of what has been projected onto him by others doesn't hold true and that his action was based more on a generalized disaffection with society than any personal victimization he experienced at the hands of insurance companies.

 

[taf2002]

I read that DWTS is considering him for their next season. I find that disgusting. This guy is not a hero, he's a criminal if he did it. I expect now that any jury will exonerate him. This like that guy, Kyle something, who fired into a crowd & killed someone. And he hasn't exactly kept his nose clean since then which proves that the pass he was given was wrong. I can't understand people who are usually law-abiding making him into a folk-hero.

 

[Debbie S]

It would be hard to do DWTS from jail... (I don't see him getting bail anytime soon and there's no way his case will be resolved in 9 months) But regardless, if that's what DWTS is about now, I think I'll stop watching.

 

[Jenny]

I read that DWTS is considering him for their next season.

At times I must say I wonder what it is you're reading, because that is not the story. The story is that one of the pros made a joke on TikTok that he could pair with him as they have a similar look. A rather distasteful joke that seems to have been picked up by a lot of media wanting to continue to ride this story, with no indication that the producers have given it a single thought. But by all means, spread the "news" if you like.

 

[Debbie S]

At times I must say I wonder what it is you're reading, because that is not the story. The story is that one of the pros made a joke on TikTok that he could pair with him as they have a similar look. A rather distasteful joke that seems to have been picked up by a lot of media wanting to continue to ride this story, with no indication that the producers have given it a single thought. But by all means, spread the "news" if you like.

Which pro?

 

[Prancer]

It seems like a lot of what has been projected onto him by others doesn't hold true and that his action was based more on a generalized disaffection with society than any personal victimization he experienced at the hands of insurance companies.

Reading all that kind of reminded me of The Best Minds--not that Mangione comes across as schizophrenic, but more that he seems to have clearly been troubled and people sort of brushed it off because he was smart and generally seen as a good guy.

I will bet he is diagnosed with some sort of mental illness and people will dismiss it because they will think it's a defense strategy--which it would be, but it could also be perfectly true.

 

[Vagabond]

I will bet he is diagnosed with some sort of mental illness and people will dismiss it because they will think it's a defense strategy--which it would be, but it could also be perfectly true.

I wonder, though, whether such a diagnosis would help with anything other than sentencing. He apparently knew the difference between right and wrong and planned everything out to avoid injuring anyone but the intended victim.

 

[annie720]

Reading all that kind of reminded me of The Best Minds--not that Mangione comes across as schizophrenic, but more that he seems to have clearly been troubled and people sort of brushed it off because he was smart and generally seen as a good guy.

I will bet he is diagnosed with some sort of mental illness and people will dismiss it because they will think it's a defense strategy--which it would be, but it could also be perfectly true.

Ever since reading the NY Times article linked above, that's what I've thought. He was having issues with brain fog and not being able to read or concentrate while in college. That is prime time for mental health issues to become noticeable. That's exactly what happened with my son. And most of his friends were unaware of his issues and would swear he was the most well adjusted person they knew, with loads of friends. Only the very closest of friends and immediate family knew his history. I agree that if it put out there for Luigi, it will be dismissed. Not absolving him of any responsibility, but it's important to be aware that it really can happen that way.

Which pro?

Debbie, it was Ezra.

 

[Prancer]

I wonder, though, whether such a diagnosis would help with anything other than sentencing.

I doubt it will help even with sentencing. New information will still come to light, but I don't think he is ill enough, if he is ill at all, for it to have much effect in such a high-profile case.

Ever since reading the NY Times article linked above, that's what I've thought. He was having issues with brain fog and not being able to read or concentrate while in college.

That really jumped out at me, too.

That is prime time for mental health issues to become noticeable.

Sadly, yes, as it's a time when most young people are naturally more distanced from family and people who have known them the longest, whether they go to college or not.

That's exactly what happened with my son. And most of his friends were unaware of his issues and would swear he was the most well adjusted person they knew, with loads of friends. Only the very closest of friends and immediate family knew his history.

I am sorry to hear that .

 

[Rob]

Ever since reading the NY Times article linked above, that's what I've thought. He was having issues with brain fog and not being able to read or concentrate while in college.

And it said he had Lyme disease when he was 13. I have a friend who had misdiagnosed Lyme- more than one strain. It went on so long without appropriate treatment that she has permanent vision problems, aches/pains, fatigue and brain fog, which made me think when I read about Mangione. She was never able to work again in her pharmaceutical sales job. But she became a Lyme disease advocate, promoting education, fundraising, and early diagnosis, and not a murderer.

 

[PRlady]

And it said he had Lyme disease when he was 13. I have a friend who had misdiagnosed Lyme- more than one strain. It went on so long without appropriate treatment that she has permanent vision problems, aches/pains, fatigue and brain fog, which made me think when I read about Mangione. She was never able to work again in her pharmaceutical sales job. But she became a Lyme disease advocate, promoting education, fundraising, and early diagnosis, and not a murderer.

Ross Douthat has written about suffering for years with fallout from Lyme. It’s really quite dangerous. But agreed, not a murder defense.

 

[taf2002]

@Jenny I was not aware the story about DWTS was not true. But by all means be snarky.