2023-24 Pairs General Discussion - Join the SBS Double Salchow Club!

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

LOL - I mean, which other US team are you saying should have been replaced? MarBed are the #2 alternate - and they were at Challenge Cup when the skate-off between Chan/Howe and Liu/Nagy (the #1 alternate) was held in Vegas during Synchro Nats. Just sayin'...

Tee-hee the team that can land side-by-side jumps. The one ahead of them can’t.

ANL is over that tradition

 

[Belsornia]

The bottom three is easier to call than the podium: Crafoords, Simioli/Zarbo and Gamez/Korovin. Even if they skate clean (and you know John Crafoord won't get that jump round) they won't have the GOEs and components to make the cut. Schaller/Mayr are probably the other unlucky loser, but they skated much better at Challenge Cup than they did the rest of the season so if they repeat that they could be replaced on the wrong side of the cut by Holichenko/Darenskyi, Vaipan-Law/Digby, Vaananen/Clerici or even Plazas/Fernandez if they're extra splatty in the short.

At the other end of the field, if everyone skates clean Miura/Kihara win; if everyone skates as they have this season it's Stellato-Dudek/Deschamps - but I too am a bit worried that Deanna wants it too much (and that everyone wants it too much for her and will jinx them). No-one has been super consistent this season, and no-one has a sufficient base value or reputation bump to leave room for lots of mistakes.

Miura/Kihara and Golubeva/Giotopoulos-Moore are trending up, Pereira/Michaud will probably do better than at 4CC but are in a bit of a sophomore slump. Metelkina/Berulava are trending down. Conti/Macii have been skating all season like they need a break and a reset, and their programmes are tired. Hase/Volodin and Pavlova/Sviatchenko are technically competent with snoozy programmes. Peng/Wang are going to struggle on the SBS jumps, Kam/O'Shea will splat on the throws. Beccari/Guarise will need to skate as well as they did at Euros to get on the podium (and need some others to make mistakes).

So....probably Stellato-Dudek/Deschamps, Hase/Volodin and Miura/Kihara for the podium. I think it'll be a really interesting competition, but it could get messy.

 

[Sylvia]

Here are some Pairs articles before tomorrow's SP:

By Beverley Smith:
Conti/Macii: https://bevsmithwrites.com/one-without-the-other-we-are-nobody/
Miura/Kihara: https://bevsmithwrites.com/japanese-pair-back-and-confident/

Robert Brodie's article (primarily) on Lia Pereira/Trennt Michaud (March 19):

Worlds 2024: 'We're very grateful we're able to do this'

Lia Pereira and Trennt Michaud aren't taking for granted in any way the opportunity that awaits them this week in Montreal. And they want to put on the biggest of shows at the Bell Centre.

rwbrodiewrites.substack.com

ETA link to watch Deanna/Maxime's post-4CC interview with Tatjana Flade, uploaded yesterday (March 18) for Worlds: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBJwHleXoKk

 

[Sylvia]

Re-posting here - thanks for the gifted link to Les Carpenter's article @sk9tingfan ! :

The Washington Post continues to delight. Here's a front page article on Deanna Stellato:

https://wapo.st/3Tvgz7A

 

[Karen-W]

Pairs Multiple Entries for 2025 Worlds -

3 = CAN, JPN, GER
2 = HUN, ITA, GEO, AUS, USA

Direct Entries = 19 - if all countries with multiple entries use all of their spots then only 5 teams from the Qualifying Round to the Championship Round Short Program. It is possible, though, that only 15 DE spots will be used (JPN 2, HUN 1, GEO 1, AUS 1) which will give 9 teams the opportunity to advance from the QR. Any way you slice it, it's going to be FIERCE next year in the Qualifying Round with likely entries from NED, CHN, UKR, FIN, POL, GBR, PHI, AUT, SWE, CZE and FRA.

 

[s_parks]

Kind of a messy FS, but great last group. Nothing new to add about Deanna and Max- amazing. Love the Germans; hope they get better programs next season. But I would not have predicted when I watched Volodin in juniors that he would be a world medalist for Germany in 2024 lol.
Glad Kihara seems to be okay. They desperately need better music.
I'm kind of into the Aussies; they have tons of potential but they need to sort out the nerves. Hopefully training with Josee will be just what they need.
Berulava, Tutberidze and Sliusarenko:

 

[Karen-W]

GP spots for 2024-25 -

Seeded 1-6 (guaranteed 2)
Stellato-Dudek/Deschamps
Miura/Kihara
Hase/Volodin
Pavlova/Sviatchenko
Hocke/Kunkel
Conti/Macii

Invited 7-10 (guaranteed 2)
Metelkina/Berulava
Pereira/Michaud
Beccari/Guarise
Golubeva/Giotopoulos Moore

WS Top 24/SB Top 24 (guaranteed 1 - I'd bet that most of these teams get 2)*
Ghilardi/Ambrosini 3/9
Plazas/Fernandez 9/18
Danilova/Tsiba 12/15
Kam/O'Shea 13/11
Chan/Howe 14/17
Kovalev/Kovalev 15/19
Laurin/Ethier 16/16
McIntosh/Mimar 22/23
Kemp/Elizarov 23/21
Liu/Nagy 24/14

SB Top 24 (guaranteed 1)
Peng/Wang 12
Vaananen/Clerici 20
Flores/Wang 22
Proft/Nadeau 24

WS Top 24 (guaranteed 1)*
Vaipan-Law/Digby 18 (SB 28)
Knierim/Frazier 19
Valesi/Piazza 20 (27 SB)
Sierova/Khobta 21 (34 SB)

* Based on projected recalculated WS once the 2021-22 season results are eliminated and the 2022-23 season results are reduced to 70%
Team = retired/split
Team = junior age-eligible & expected to remain on the JGP next season

It will be interesting to see which teams get 2 GPs on the initial assignments list and which ones don't. Ghilardi/Ambrosini and Danilova/Tsiba are high enough up on the SB and WS lists that I don't think they will get screwed by not coming from a host fed. And I expect that the Kovalevs will get two initially also, if only because they lost out on any ISU Championship points this season due to their injuries/illness at Euros and ahead of Worlds. The same logic would apply to Chan/Howe who missed the first half of the season and all those points due to injury.

Conversely, Peng/Wang and Vaananen/Clerici will benefit from coming from a host fed and could get 2 initially which would leave teams like the Plazas/Fernandez, Laurin/Ethier and Liu/Nagy vulnerable to only getting 1 GP initially.

My expectation is that USA, FRA, JPN, and CHN will use 2 of their host spots and CAN will use 1 of their host spots for their own teams who aren't guaranteed any GPs. I'm not sure FRA & JPN will actually use 2 host spots, but on the initial assignments list I can see them holding onto 2 until after they've had a chance to monitor their teams during the late summer/early fall.

 

[RoseRed]

GP spots for 2024-25 -

I think the new team of Bombardier/Mimar might be eligible as a returning/split team, if they apply. I'm not clear on whether they'd be guaranteed a spot, or just eligible to be chosen though.

The rule from this year's announcement:

Return of a Split Couple - “Returning Split Couple”Pairs or Ice Dance Couples, who were previously in the top 7 to 12 of an ISU World Figure Skating Championships in the past three seasons (2021, 2022 or 2023) but who split and now have a new partner, may always be chosen as an Organizing ISU Member Skater as per paragraph 2.2. f) and in addition, may be considered as an Organizing ISU Member’s Choice as per paragraph 2.2. g). They will be ranked in the list of Grand Prix Season’s Best scores by taking the season’s points of their partnership with their most recent previous partner, if proof is given in writing by their ISU Member that they intend to continue their competitive career and their return is announced and confirmed by the date of the annual Selection Meeting. Such Pairs/Dance Couples are defined as a “Returning Split Couple” and such Returning SplitCouples do not need to fulfill the requirement of a minimum Grand Prix score.

McIntosh/Mimar finished 11th at Worlds 2023, so Mimar would count for that. The wording of "may always be chosen" sounds like they're just eligible, but not guaranteed anything. But on the other hand it says they're ranked by the points from their last partnership, and M/M's results have them top 24 in both the SB and WS lists, which would mean at least one guaranteed spot if they had continued. So, about as clear as ISU rules usually are.

 

[Karen-W]

I think the new team of Bombardier/Mimar might be eligible as a returning/split team, if they apply. I'm not clear on whether they'd be guaranteed a spot, or just eligible to be chosen though.

The rule from this year's announcement:


McIntosh/Mimar finished 11th at Worlds 2023, so Mimar would count for that. The wording of "may always be chosen" sounds like they're just eligible, but not guaranteed anything. But on the other hand it says they're ranked by the points from their last partnership, and M/M's results have them top 24 in both the SB and WS lists, which would mean at least one guaranteed spot if they had continued. So, about as clear as ISU rules usually are.

Oh, yes, they would be eligible as a Returning Split Couple. I'd forgotten that it was Top 7-12 - for some reason I thought it was just 7-10 for Pairs and Dance. They aren't guaranteed a GP assignment - this past season both Hase/Volodin and Peng/Wang got lucky and wound up with 2, same with Smart/Dieck in Dance - they all were given 1 on the initial assignments list. I think the biggest difference between those three teams and Bombardier/Mimar is their relative levels of experience and results were much stronger than Mimar's track record.

They were actually the team I was thinking of for the CAN TBD spot. At best, that's where I think they'll wind up and then, like a few other teams who are only guaranteed 1 GP, they'll be ranked pretty high on the Alternates List thanks to Mimar's SB 23.

 

[mattiecat13]

Glad Kihara seems to be okay. They desperately need better music.

I may be the only one , but I like Miura/Kihara’s “Woman” program. I remember when Castelli/Shnapir skated to it.

 

[Ka3sha]

Hase/Volodin about new programs:

We also want to try a new style in the short program; neither Minerva nor I have skated something like this yet. Previously, Minerva's programs were more lyrical and soft, but here there will be more sensuality and even some passion. After the Worlds we will stay in Canada and go to Toronto to choreograph new programs.

Никита Володин: «Поздравил ли кто-то с медалью из российских ребят? Галлямов записал «кружочек». Приятно, что он за нами следит»

Володин и Минерва Фабьен Хазе , выступающие в парном катании за Германию, стали бронзовыми призерами чемпионата мира в Монреале.

sports.ru

 

[Belsornia]

Who’s the choreographer in Toronto they could be going to for sensuality and passion? Carol Lane and co? Because that’s not the first thing I think of when it comes to Canadian pairs programmes?

 

[Karen-W]

Who’s the choreographer in Toronto they could be going to for sensuality and passion? Carol Lane and co? Because that’s not the first thing I think of when it comes to Canadian pairs programmes?

Sandra Bezic is in Toronto - not sure who else there is that would give them sensuality & passion.

 

[Belsornia]

Sandra Bezic is in Toronto - not sure who else there is that would give them sensuality & passion.

Ooh, that could be interesting. Their programmes were Hase/Volodin’s weak link this season so I’m glad they’re looking to stretch themselves beyond Minerva’s nice-but-bland vibe.

 

[Karen-W]

And we have our 2nd high-profile split of the post-season (McIntosh/Mimar being the first) -

View this content on Instagram

View this content on Instagram

Chelsea Liu and Balazs Nagy have split.

Dave Lease dropped the tidbit in the Worlds recap that has now gone private that Balasz is going to be trying out with Audrey Shin (either was in Colorado Springs with Brandon Frazier overseeing the tryout this past week or would be there this week).

 

[Karen-W]

Who’s the choreographer in Toronto they could be going to for sensuality and passion? Carol Lane and co? Because that’s not the first thing I think of when it comes to Canadian pairs programmes?

Looks like at least one other pair from their training group is also in Toronto - Chtchetinina/Wozniak.

Login • Instagram

Welcome back to Instagram. Sign in to check out what your friends, family & interests have been capturing & sharing around the world.

www.instagram.com

 

[Colonel Green]

Looks like at least one other pair from their training group is also in Toronto - Chtchetinina/Wozniak.

Login • Instagram

Welcome back to Instagram. Sign in to check out what your friends, family & interests have been capturing & sharing around the world.

www.instagram.com

Bulk rate!

 

[Karen-W]

Do we have any suggestions for a title of the next season's Pairs general discussion thread? Seems like most of the top pairs teams have moved beyond the double Salchow club, lol.

 

[Sylvia]

I think you jinxed Chan & Howe this season by using their names in the 2023-24 U.S. Pairs news thread so I'm hoping you will take suggestions/let us have input for the 2024-25 thread title please!

 

[Karen-W]

I think you jinxed Chan & Howe this season by using their names in the 2023-24 U.S. Pairs news thread so I'm hoping you will take suggestions/let us have input for the 2024-25 thread title please!

LOL! Good idea!

Suggest away for both!

 

[Wyliefan]

Have we ever used "Two Shall Splat As One"?

 

[Karen-W]

Have we ever used "Two Shall Splat As One"?

I'm kind of feeling a bit inspired by the Dance Hall thread name discussion - "Triple TwisTeaing to the TD Garden"

 

[Wyliefan]

Tossed in Boston (you know, because of throws ... eh, maybe it needs work).

 

[Karen-W]

Hase/Volodin about new programs:

Никита Володин: «Поздравил ли кто-то с медалью из российских ребят? Галлямов записал «кружочек». Приятно, что он за нами следит»

Володин и Минерва Фабьен Хазе , выступающие в парном катании за Германию, стали бронзовыми призерами чемпионата мира в Монреале.

sports.ru

Who’s the choreographer in Toronto they could be going to for sensuality and passion? Carol Lane and co? Because that’s not the first thing I think of when it comes to Canadian pairs programmes?

Looks like at least one other pair from their training group is also in Toronto - Chtchetinina/Wozniak.

Login • Instagram

Welcome back to Instagram. Sign in to check out what your friends, family & interests have been capturing & sharing around the world.

www.instagram.com

The answer seems to be Mark Pillay...

Ioulia Chtchetinina on Instagram: "Happy new program ? • It was so much fun to work with Mark Pillay and @powly.de on our new short program ? I always loved programs that Mark created, so it was a dream coming true ❤️ • Thank you so much @yorkregion

199 likes, 1 comments - iouliachtchetinina on March 30, 2024: "Happy new program ? • It was so much fun to work with Mark Pillay and @powly.de on our new short program ? I always loved program..."

www.instagram.com

Ioulia thanked him for choreographing their now programs and HaseVol are in the 2nd group photo.

 

[Sylvia]

The ISU's annual Pair Skating Development Training Seminar in Berlin (April 1-6, 2024) is underway (ISU Judges' Seminar in Pair Skating is April 4-7) - info was published in ISU Communication no. 2609 on December 20, 2023: https://www.isu.org/inside-isu/isu-communications/communications/32830-isu-communication-2609/file

The Moderators of the Seminar are: Mr. Patrick Meier - S&P TC Seminar Coordinator; Mr. Bruno
Marcotte - Pair Skating element Coach; Ms. Dorota and Mr. Mariusz Siudek - off-ice lifts and Pair
Skating element Coaches; Mr. Peter Grütter - Single Skating element Coach; Mr. Alexander Koenig -
allround Coach; and others. Additional off-ice ballet classes, and strength and conditioning will also
be scheduled.

Switzerland's Chiara Michaela Pazienza, 15, and German-born Maxim Knorr, 21 (http://www.isuresults.com/bios/isufs00118534.htm) are among the pairs there, according to their latest Insta stories: https://www.instagram.com/chiara_and_maxim_pairsk8ing

 

[Karen-W]

The ISU's annual Pair Skating Development Training Seminar in Berlin (April 1-6, 2024) is underway (ISU Judges' Seminar in Pair Skating is April 4-7) - info was published in ISU Communication no. 2609 on December 20, 2023: https://www.isu.org/inside-isu/isu-communications/communications/32830-isu-communication-2609/file

Switzerland's Chiara Michaela Pazienza, 15, and German-born Maxim Knorr, 21 (http://www.isuresults.com/bios/isufs00118534.htm) are among the pairs there, according to their latest Insta stories: https://www.instagram.com/chiara_and_maxim_pairsk8ing

France's Romane Telemaque & Lucas Coulon are also participating.

Lucas & Romane ⛸ on Instagram: "#isu #pairskating #isuseminar #teamcsgdammarie #workhardplayhard #trainingsession #deathspiral #throwjump #twist #pairlifts #berlin"

159 likes, 0 comments - romane_lucas_pair.skating on April 2, 2024: "#isu #pairskating #isuseminar #teamcsgdammarie #workhardplayhard #trainingsession #deathspiral #throwjump #twist #pairlifts #berlin".

www.instagram.com

 

[Karen-W]

The ISU's annual Pair Skating Development Training Seminar in Berlin (April 1-6, 2024) is underway (ISU Judges' Seminar in Pair Skating is April 4-7) - info was published in ISU Communication no. 2609 on December 20, 2023: https://www.isu.org/inside-isu/isu-communications/communications/32830-isu-communication-2609/file

Switzerland's Chiara Michaela Pazienza, 15, and German-born Maxim Knorr, 21 (http://www.isuresults.com/bios/isufs00118534.htm) are among the pairs there, according to their latest Insta stories: https://www.instagram.com/chiara_and_maxim_pairsk8ing

Slovakia's Nikola Sitkova/Oliver Kubacak and a new team of Laura Heckova/Alex Valky are also at the Seminar.

Slovak figure skating on Instagram: "Naše dve juniorské športové dvojice, Laura Hečková/Alex Války a Nikola Sitková/Oliver Kubačák majú svoje prvé tréningy na ISU Development Pair seminári za sebou."

139 likes, 0 comments - slovakfigureskating on April 1, 2024: "Naše dve juniorské športové dvojice, Laura Hečková/Alex Války a Nikola Sitková/Oliver Kubačák majú svoje prvé tréningy na ISU Development Pair seminári za sebou.".

www.instagram.com

Slovak figure skating on Instagram

151 likes, 0 comments - slovakfigureskating on April 2, 2024

www.instagram.com

 

[LoisAGOEs]

Slovakia's Nikola Sitkova/Oliver Kubacak and a new team of Laura Heckova/Alex Valky are also at the Seminar.

Slovak figure skating on Instagram: "Naše dve juniorské športové dvojice, Laura Hečková/Alex Války a Nikola Sitková/Oliver Kubačák majú svoje prvé tréningy na ISU Development Pair seminári za sebou."

139 likes, 0 comments - slovakfigureskating on April 1, 2024: "Naše dve juniorské športové dvojice, Laura Hečková/Alex Války a Nikola Sitková/Oliver Kubačák majú svoje prvé tréningy na ISU Development Pair seminári za sebou.".

www.instagram.com

Slovak figure skating on Instagram

151 likes, 0 comments - slovakfigureskating on April 2, 2024

www.instagram.com

Heckova/Valky aren’t actually new, just new to the junior ranks. They’ve been competing in advanced novice pairs together for the last couple of seasons.

 

[Karen-W]

Nice to see Moss/Galbavy get the opportunity of participating in the ISU’s Pair Skating Development Seminar in Berlin, Germany (link to their team Instagram post with photos was removed after I had posted).

More info on the anual seminar is here: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/th...ouble-salchow-club.110748/page-9#post-6583529

Still there as far as I can see...

Reagan Moss & Jakub Galbavy on Instagram: "Day one of the 2024 ISU Pair Seminar in Berlin. Thanks so much to @usfigureskating and @isufigureskating for such a cool opportunity and experience. Learning so much from so many wonderful coaches and meeti

143 likes, 6 comments - reaganandjakub on April 4, 2024: "Day one of the 2024 ISU Pair Seminar in Berlin. Thanks so much to @usfigureskating and @isufigureskating for such a cool opportunity and experience. Learning so much from so many wonderful coaches and meeting skaters from around the...

www.instagram.com

 

[Karen-W]

IceLab has shared that ITA's Polina Polman/Gabriel Renoldi are also at the Pairs Dev Seminar -

Ice Lab - Center of Excellence on Instagram: "Polina Polman and Gabriel Renoldi ?? are currently in Berlin ?? taking part at the ISU Pairs Seminar 2024! ✨ #icelab #icelabcenterofexcellence #isufigureskating"

70 likes, 1 comments - icelab_coe on April 5, 2024: "Polina Polman and Gabriel Renoldi ?? are currently in Berlin ?? taking part at the ISU Pairs Seminar 2024! ✨ #icelab #ice..."

www.instagram.com

There are two Spanish teams also participating though I'm not sure of their identities.

Patinaje Artístico España ?? on Instagram: "Hoy comienza en Berlín un Seminario de Parejas en el que participan algunos de nuestros patinadores ?? #ViveElHielo #patinajeESP #figureskating #patinajeartistico #wintersports"

157 likes, 0 comments - fedhielo_patinaje on April 1, 2024: "Hoy comienza en Berlín un Seminario de Parejas en el que participan algunos de nuestros patinadores ?? #ViveElHielo #patinajeESP ..."

www.instagram.com

Sofia & Mario - https://www.instagram.com/stories/f...rce=ig_story_item_share&igsh=NHQwNTYzdWFkaHVn

Penny & Martin - https://www.instagram.com/stories/f...rce=ig_story_item_share&igsh=czdvaTR0aHB5czA4