War in Israel

[Vash01]

The US assessment of the hospital blast concurs with Israel's:

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/10/18/politics/us-intel-gaza-hospital-blast/index.html

This sounds logical. More information needs to come up, and it will, as the investigation progresses.

I never believed that Israel would attack a hospital because they follow the rules of war. Mistakes are possible in a war, but based on what I am reading, it does not sound like Israel was involved in the explosion at the hospital.

Sadly the Islamic nations drew their conclusions instantaneously, without a thought, that Israel did it. Sadly their people will continue to believe what they first heard.

I wonder if the UN can create a neutral body to investigate what really happened?

Although I believe in what the US has found, the world may not believe their findings because they are an ally of Israel. I think a neutral body needs to investigate it fully.

I also feel that the 'bad timing' may not have been a coincidence.

ETA- to be fair, it may or may not have been coincidental. We don't know yet.

 

[Lynn226]

@becca The Israeli - Jordanian relationship is complex. King Abdullah seems to give Israel a black eye everytime he can. Whether that is a disdain for Bibi or a dislike of Israel or both, I'm not sure.

 

[Vash01]

@becca The Israeli - Jordanian relationship is complex. King Abdullah seems to give Israel a black eye everytime he can. Whether that is a disdain for Bibi or a dislike of Israel or both, I'm not sure.

Is it true that the king's wife is Palestinian? If yes, that could be a reason.

 

[Andrey aka Pushkin]

Is it true that the king's wife is Palestinian? If yes, that could be a reason.

TBH I never felt there's a particular hostility on Jordanian leadership part. Their leaders are said to be 10 times more moderate than the public, and while Jordan issues grave warnings every time one of the Israeli right wing politicians makes a provocation, they never made any actual steps on severing the connections with Israel.

 

[PRlady]

Is it true that the king's wife is Palestinian? If yes, that could be a reason.

Half of Jordan is Palestinian. The king has to keep them placated, wife or not.

 

[Stefanie]

Is it true that the king's wife is Palestinian? If yes, that could be a reason.

She was born in Kuwait of Palestinian parents.

 

[Lynn226]

Is it true that the king's wife is Palestinian? If yes, that could be a reason.

Yes. She's Palestinian.

 

[once_upon]

What I've always been told and truly believe is true, that the complexity of the area is not something that the west can totally understand or fix.

i think that is particularly true in the US, where we have not experienced the ongoing wars/bombing/military fighting. The daily, hourly horrors experienced by Israel and Gaza is something my brain can't fathom. What is clear to me is that Hamas started this current escalation.

War between the states occurred once in the US and while we still have differences, for at least the last 100+ years we don't have the bombs flying, air raids sirens going off, etc.

I dont have enough information, expertise or ability to discern what happened yesterday.

I dont think my support for Israel has waned. I also feel for the innocent Palestinians.

 

[Judy]

What I've always been told and truly believe is true, that the complexity of the area is not something that the west can totally understand or fix.

i think that is particularly true in the US, where we have not experienced the ongoing wars/bombing/military fighting. The daily, hourly horrors experienced by Israel and Gaza is something my brain can't fathom. What is clear to me is that Hamas started this current escalation.

War between the states occurred once in the US and while we still have differences, for at least the last 100+ years we don't have the bombs flying, air raids sirens going off, etc.

I dont have enough information, expertise or ability to discern what happened yesterday.

I dont think my support for Israel has waned. I also feel for the innocent Palestinians.

That is where the polarization comes from because of how Palestinians have been living for so long. It’s not even winnable presenting facts now. Of course I have support for civilians in Israel suffering such horror .. but Palestinians are also suffering horror. It’s very, very sad ?.

 

[TAHbKA]

I never believed that Israel would attack a hospital because they follow the rules of war. Mistakes are possible in a war, but based on what I am reading, it does not sound like Israel was involved in the explosion at the hospital.

We did in the past and we will in the future. Hamas uses the hospitals/schools as a place to fire the rockets from. Between a Palestinian school and an Israeli school guess which school we'll choose.

That is where the polarization comes from because of how Palestinians have been living for so long. It’s not even winnable presenting facts now. Of course I have support for civilians in Israel suffering such horror .. but Palestinians are also suffering horror. It’s very, very sad ?.

It's so very sad that you should really put your money where your heart is. I think you should take at least one Palestinian family to your house and help them with all you can. You woudln't? So wouldn't any other countries. 2M people are living in a ghetto because NONE of the countries in the world wants them. But that's Israel's fault somehow

 

[TAHbKA]

Things you learn thanks to the rockets: there is a pilatis club underneath the pizza place. Yeah, went to buy a pizza, there was an alarm, we went to the shelter which, apparently, is a pilatis club.
A walk in the promenade along the sea - saw the iron dome in action in the south (probably above Holon?). In a way it's beautiful. Wish it wasn't deadly.

 

[On My Own]

there is a pilatis club underneath the pizza place.

Subliminal messaging...

 

[PRlady]

This response is so puzzling...

Ok, so Jordan and Egypt don't want to have a war with Israel, because Israel is stronger, and they have their population to feed.
But it makes a perfect sense to do so for the Palestinians, because, apparently the Israeli army is not an issue, and they obviously don't have anyone to feed.

Why would Jordan and Egypt would even want to have a war? They don't have any dispute with Israel, for f*ks sake, are we in this world now, when it's expected countries to start wars just because?

And the real question here is why since 2005 the Palestinians got billions of dollars, endless amounts of aid, every political support on the planet, and yet all they did with it culminated last Saturday, and that is somehow acceptable and Israel's fault. How people look at this and continue the same mantra is absolutely beyond me. Yes, the WB is a mess, and that's Israel's fault to a great degree. But Gaza is self-govern, there's no Israeli military or civilian presence. Seriously now, what in anyone's eyes would end the blockade of Gaza faster - developing their infrastructure, industry, civil services; or barraging Israel with rockets every couple of months??? Yeah, yeah, EVILLE Israel cuts Gaza from electricity... WhyTF Israel even has to supply Gaza with electricity, why in 18 years they didn't bother to build their own electric plant??? That in fact WAS part of the disengagement plan, making Gaza self sustainable in the terms of energy, why da f.k that didn't happen, evil Israel, I presume??? But somehow that incredible idea doesn't cross the relevant minds.

Grrr...

Greetings from TLV
Another depressing (but in a good way) meet up with Mrs. and Mr. PRLady and TAHbKA. Gosh, we're old enough and engaged enough to talk politics

Any minute now I will be TOO old to talk politics. The last 12 days have done me in.

 

[BlueRidge]

Any minute now I will be TOO old to talk politics. The last 12 days have done me in.

When you come back here, we will only talk about skating.

 

[once_upon]

. But that's Israel's fault somehow

I hope that you don't think that I am making anything Israel fault.

I can't understand what you and your country are going through. You are there, I am here watching horrific scenes of a musical festival bombed. Pictures of a hospital - with questions that aren't answered. Are the images real? Who was responsible? What the hell happened?

I am so confused.

I can't understand because I'm not living there, nor am I Jewish, a people who face extreme hate and threat of extermination.

I also can't understand the intense pain and suffering of others, because I haven't faced it. I just hope to someone who can listen

EDITED- I'm probably not expressing myself very well. I pray for your country and especially the safety of our FSU friends

 

[MsZem]

I can't understand what you and your country are going through. You are there, I am here watching horrific scenes of a musical festival bombed. Pictures of a hospital - with questions that aren't answered. Are the images real? Who was responsible? What the hell happened?

The music festival wasn't bombed. People were attacked from all directions, hunted down and mercilessly slaughtered using guns, grenades, and probably anything else that came to hand.

Reportedly there were even worse atrocities in Be'eri and some of the other kibbutzim.

 

[once_upon]

The music festival wasn't bombed. People were attacked from all directions, hunted down and mercilessly slaughtered using guns, grenades, and probably anything else that came to hand.

Reportedly there were even worse atrocities in Be'eri and some of the other kibbutzim.

I'm not trying to be incorrect, I am not trying to dismiss anything.

I'm crying for you and your country.

I guess I should just quit reading and responding here, I obviously am not able to articulate.

 

[Sylvia]

British teen [named Yahel, 13] missing in Hamas attack on Israel confirmed dead, family say (Oct. 17):

British teen missing in Hamas attack on Israel confirmed dead, family say

Yahel, who went missing with sister Noiya, was killed in the assault on Israel, her family have said.

www.bbc.com

Yahel, 13, disappeared after militants attacked Kibbutz Be'eri and killed her British-born mother Lianne.
Family members have now confirmed to BBC News that Yahel was also killed. Her sister Noiya, 16, and Israeli father Eli are still missing.
Yahel's family said she was "full of adventure and mischief".
In a statement to BBC News, they said: "Beautiful Yahel. A bundle of unbridled energy and joy, with a cheekiness that you could not help but smile at and a brain which was sharp as a tack.
"Full of adventure and mischief, we will forever miss her, but are grateful for the light she brought into our lives in the too short time she was with us."

BBC's video report: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwTjTYlf-4U

A British teenager who went missing after Hamas's attack on southern Israel was murdered, her family have told BBC News.
Yahel, 13, disappeared after militants attacked Kibbutz Be'eri and killed her British-born mother Lianne.
Family members have now confirmed to BBC News that Yahel was also killed. Her sister Noiya, 16, and Israeli father Eli are still missing.
UK PM Rishi Sunak said on Monday that "at least" six British citizens have died.

 

[Vash01]

The music festival wasn't bombed. People were attacked from all directions, hunted down and mercilessly slaughtered using guns, grenades, and probably anything else that came to hand.

Reportedly there were even worse atrocities in Be'eri and some of the other kibbutzim.

I am very sad and upset about what was done to your innocent people by the terrorists. All my sympathies are with you and your country. I don't know how to comfort you but rest assured that we (USA) are on your side. I hope this kind of thing never happens again.

 

[Vash01]

British teen [named Yahel, 13] missing in Hamas attack on Israel confirmed dead, family say (Oct. 17):

British teen missing in Hamas attack on Israel confirmed dead, family say

Yahel, who went missing with sister Noiya, was killed in the assault on Israel, her family have said.

www.bbc.com

BBC's video report: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwTjTYlf-4U

So sad. Those poor parents! May the teen R.I.P.

 

[Private Citizen]

A number of countries are now advising their citizens in Lebanon to leave immediately, and some are calling back embassy staff. I hope that this is precautionary and not the result of any intelligence. Lebanon is in such an awful state that it can hardly afford a war.

 

[starrynight]

Gee what a masterclass in global misinformation. It’s quite scary actually. Is it too much to hope that the international media might actually fact check Hamas press releases going forward? This has been like if major news services reported Kremlin press releases as facts.

I know for the media it’s all about clicks and ad revenue - but I really don’t appreciate them potentially baiting unrest and terror in other parts of the globe by acting like this.

 

[TAHbKA]

Gee what a masterclass in global misinformation. It’s quite scary actually. Is it too much to hope that the international media might actually fact check Hamas press releases going forward? This has been like if major news services reported Kremlin press releases as facts.

I know for the media it’s all about clicks and ad revenue - but I really don’t appreciate them potentially baiting unrest and terror in other parts of the globe by acting like this.

They could, but why would they? Hamas provides more clicks. Apparently sex and blood sells really well. For now they are focusing on blood, one can only hope they did not record the rapes

 

[PRlady]

When you come back here, we will only talk about skating.

You should know that when we saw Tanya and Andrey earlier this week and we started debating skating, DH joked about how he’s learned to tune you and me out on that and then tune back in for the politics.

A number of countries are now advising their citizens in Lebanon to leave immediately, and some are calling back embassy staff. I hope that this is precautionary and not the result of any intelligence. Lebanon is in such an awful state that it can hardly afford a war.

Lebanon is a completely failed state partially because of Hezbollah and other sectarian factions destroying a functional government. Unfortunately they are well-armed. And just like the US helped form the Taliban by supporting them against the Soviets, Hezbollah is the result of Israel’s previous two wars there.

Also, no one is paying attention but the situation on the West Bank continues to escalate, attacks by settlers on Palestinians. And the government chose this time to do a house demolition in East Jerusalem. Brilliant.

 

[Lynn226]

You should know that when we saw Tanya and Andrey earlier this week and we started debating skating, DH joked about how he’s learned to tune you and me out on that and then tune back in for the politics.

Lebanon is a completely failed state partially because of Hezbollah and other sectarian factions destroying a functional government. Unfortunately they are well-armed. And just like the US helped form the Taliban by supporting them against the Soviets, Hezbollah is the result of Israel’s previous two wars there.

Also, no one is paying attention but the situation on the West Bank continues to escalate, attacks by settlers on Palestinians. And the government chose this time to do a house demolition in East Jerusalem. Brilliant.

If the West Bank situation spills into Jordan, then I could see that government collapsing. I saw an article by an academic some time ago on the future of Jordan. The possible outcomes predicted by this scholar were rather bleak. Some of the reasons given were the terrible state of the economy there and because King Abdullah has lost some of his support among the tribal individuals which have traditionally supported him. I'll see if I can find it.

ETA link to article: https://www.fpri.org/article/2019/09/the-hashemite-kingdoms-multiple-futures/

 

[PRlady]

I think we are in for a lot of unintended consequences with this war. My political Spidey sense has been tingling off the charts for more than a week. I don’t know if @Andrey aka Pushkin ’s WW1 analogy is accurate but I did read The Sleepwalkers about how that war started with a lot of little errors and hostilities.

I’m personally ready to explode from tension and it’s pretty obvious most others here are as well.

 

[Lynn226]

I think we are in for a lot of unintended consequences with this war.

I think you're right.

 

[TAHbKA]

I think we are in for a lot of unintended consequences with this war.

Am willing to bet this war will either save Bibi's ass or put someone much more extreme and militant instead.

 

[Allskate]

Gee what a masterclass in global misinformation. It’s quite scary actually. Is it too much to hope that the international media might actually fact check Hamas press releases going forward?

Apparently it is too much to ask. I'm not naive. I know that certain media outlets and people in that region would accept what Hamas claims no matter what the evidence and other reports. And I know that there even are some Hamas apologists and supporters in the U.S. who will. But, I really do wish that at least mainstream reporters in the West would be more restrained and responsible. There were tv reporters who were not only immediately reporting Hamas claims about the cause and numbers of casualties but expressing their belief without evidence. The BBC seems even worse. They not only assumed that it was Israel who was responsible for the explosion but also started a broadcast by flatly stating that hundreds were dead (with no source). Their reporters weren't even reporting from Gaza. Their tone seemed dramatic and likely to inflame as well. Some of it may be bias, but some of it is probably just to get eyeballs.

I'm wondering if there are any reputable reporters on the ground in Gaza that can report on what is happening. Most of the American network and BBC reporters who are reporting on Gaza are actually reporting from places like Jerusalem or Tel Aviv, not Gaza.

I call BS. How can BBC report the numbers and the horrors of destructions related to this hospital hit, and publish this video that contradicts the report in the same article?

Because Hamas is so good at math and so credible?

Lee Kern on Instagram: "WHAT POSSIBLE REASON COULD GENOCIDAL TERRORISTS HAMAS HAVE TO LIE?"

6,578 likes, 286 comments - leekern13 on October 18, 2023: "WHAT POSSIBLE REASON COULD GENOCIDAL TERRORISTS HAMAS HAVE TO LIE?".

www.instagram.com

 

[PRlady]

Apparently it is too much to ask. I'm not naive. I know that certain media outlets and people in that region would accept what Hamas claims no matter what the evidence and other reports. And I know that there even are some Hamas apologists and supporters in the U.S. who will. But, I really do wish that at least mainstream reporters in the West would be more restrained and responsible. There were tv reporters who were not only immediately reporting Hamas claims about the cause and numbers of casualties but expressing their belief without evidence. The BBC seems even worse. They not only assumed that it was Israel who was responsible for the explosion but also started a broadcast by flatly stating that hundreds were dead (with no source). Their reporters weren't even reporting from Gaza. Their tone seemed dramatic and likely to inflame as well. Some of it may be bias, but some of it is probably just to get eyeballs.

I'm wondering if there are any reputable reporters on the ground in Gaza that can report on what is happening. Most of the American network and BBC reporters who are reporting on Gaza are actually reporting from places like Jerusalem or Tel Aviv, not Gaza.



Because Hamas is so good at math and so credible?

Lee Kern on Instagram: "WHAT POSSIBLE REASON COULD GENOCIDAL TERRORISTS HAMAS HAVE TO LIE?"

6,578 likes, 286 comments - leekern13 on October 18, 2023: "WHAT POSSIBLE REASON COULD GENOCIDAL TERRORISTS HAMAS HAVE TO LIE?".

www.instagram.com

CNN had someone on ground in Gaza but they may have pulled her for safety reasons.