2023-24 US Pairs Discussion - Chan you count Howe many teams we have?

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From the John Nicks Pairs Challenge thread in the Trash Can - Junior teams edited to reflect this new information!

I anticipate that we will see Park/Griffin also added to the ISP soon based on their good result from Golden West.

Turns out Reagan Moss' new partner "Gal" is a typo for Slovakia's Jakub Galbavy, 17, whose only has 1 junior singles international (October 2021 Budapest Trophy) listed in his ISU bio: http://www.isuresults.com/bios/isufs00108053.htm
According to this 7/31 tweet that includes a link to a Slovak federation document: https://twitter.com/AnythingGOE/status/1686015386464952321
"Jakub Galbavy is released from the Slovakian federation at the request of USFS, he can compete from the 24/25 season."

I believe that there are supposed to be 3 Junior pairs scheduled to compete in the Nicks international - so of the 5 preliminary entries posted, they are: Enkina/Kovalenko (7th in their JGP Linz debut for ISR), Ashley Fletcher/Aaron Felberbaum (new this season, coached by Chris Knierim, and recently added to the ISP), and Saya Carpenter/Jon Maravilla (based at Detroit SC; ISU Junior age-eligible even though they are not listed publicly in the ISP right now).

The 2 Junior pairs scheduled to compete in the Middle Atlantics NQS are Sydney Cooke/Matthew Kennedy (new this season) and Moss/Gablavy.
Junior teams
Carpenter/Maravilla ISP 102.88 (combined SP+FS at non-NQS Skate Detroit) [John Nicks PC]
Fletcher/Felberbaum ISP 97.83 (Battle of the Blades) [John Nicks PC]
Flores/Wang ISP 147.22 (2nd place at JGP #2 Linz), 123.40 (Glacier Falls) [JGP #3 Istanbul]
Park/Griffin 119.67 (Golden West)
Williams/Lewer ISP 138.19 (Glacier Falls) [JGP #5 Budapest & JGP #6 Gdansk]
Zheng/Deng ISP 126.16 (Battle of the Blades) [JGP #3 Istanbul]

Cooke/Kennedy* (age-ineligible - competed in the Jr Pairs FS at non-NQS Colonial Open in June) [Middle Atlantics]
Delis/Schwab* (age-ineligible) 104.31 (Golden West), 88.94 (Glacier Falls)
Grohne/Lunt* (he still needs to pass his junior Pairs test - 89.42 in Novice at non-NQS Cup of Colorado in August)
Moss/Galbavy* (eligible for the ISP in 2024-25 per Slovak federation release) [Middle Atlantics]
Rivers/Rensing* (age-ineligible) 101.39 (Glacier Falls)
 
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Mokhovs added to Cup of China
Liu/Nagy added to SkAM

One more SkAM and NHK spot to go, who will they add?
NHK isn't going to a US pairs team, I don't think. I would be very surprised if the Mokhovs don't get the SkAm TBD spot since they scored 8 & 10 points higher than the other 3 teams in the ISP who don't have 2 GPs (ChanHowe, KamOShea, PlaFern) or a SkAm host spot (LiuNagy) already.
 
NHK isn't going to a US pairs team, I don't think. I would be very surprised if the Mokhovs don't get the SkAm TBD spot since they scored 8 & 10 points higher than the other 3 teams in the ISP who don't have 2 GPs (ChanHowe, KamOShea, PlaFern) or a SkAm host spot (LiuNagy) already.
Idk if I'm wrong and tired 😂 but Spencer and Emily are going and Nastia/Daniil are WD

 
Idk if I'm wrong and tired 😂 but Spencer and Emily are going and Nastia/Daniil are WD

But S/S don't have to be replaced by another American team. It's up to the Japanese fed to pick a replacement for NHK from the replacement list, not up to the USFS.
 
Ah I see, Who are some other candidates though?
See the last post in this thread for GP alternates -

 
Mokhovs for SkAm? Are they waiting for Digerness/Sadusky?
I'm not expecting an announcement about the final TBD spot right away. With the rumor being that Isabelle Martins wasn't 100% this week, I'd guess the Int'l Committee will wait until after ACI next weekend before making a decision, and if they're going to wait until after ACI, they might as well wait until after the Mokhovs compete at Nebelhorn the week after. That still gives whomever is selected a month ahead of SkAm.
 
Another week down, only two NQS competitions left (Broadmoor Fall Classic Sept 21-24 & Boston Open Oct 5-8), but we're getting into the heart of the international season!

Senior teams
Chan/Howe ISP (bye) [CoC and NHK Trophy]
Digerness/Sadusky (guessing we'll see them compete at the Broadmoor Fall Classic in 2 weeks)
Fitzpatrick/Bearinger 130.22 (Middle Atlantics), 152.54 (Battle of the Blades)
Hanns/Neudecker ISP 137.53 (John Nicks IPC)
Kam/O'Shea ISP (bye) [Nebelhorn, Finlandia, GPdF and GP Espoo]
Liu/Nagy ISP 175.91 (Glacier Falls), [Autumn Classic Int'l, Finlandia & SkAm]
Martins/Bedard ISP 135.17 (John Nicks IPC), 157.05 (Glacier Falls) [Autumn Classic Int'l]
Mokhova/Mokhov ISP (CoC conflicts with the US Pairs Final, so they should have a bye to Nats as a result) 145.75 (John Nicks IPC, Nebelhorn, CoC]
Ouellette/Newby-Estrella ISP 131.37 (John Nicks IPC)
Plazas/Fernandez ISP (bye) 161.51 (John Nicks IPC) [Nebelhorn, SkAm and GPdF]

Efimova/Mitrofanov* (eligible for the ISP in April 2024) (guessing we'll see them first compete at the Boston Open in 4 weeks)
Korytek/Chapman* 156.18 (Glacier Falls) (age-ineligible)
McBeath/Parkman* 181.39 (Middle Atlantics), 170.46 (Glacier Falls) (eligible for the ISP in Dec 2023)

Junior teams
Carpenter/Maravilla 102.36 (John Nicks IPC)
Fletcher/Felberbaum ISP 97.76 (John Nicks IPC), 97.83 (Battle of the Blades)
Flores/Wang ISP 154.52 (2nd place at JGP #3 Istanbul), 147.22 (2nd place at JGP #2 Linz), 123.40 (Glacier Falls) [JGPF - qualifies them for a bye]
Park/Griffin 119.67 (Golden West)
Williams/Lewer ISP 138.19 (Glacier Falls) [JGP #5 Budapest & JGP #6 Gdansk]
Zheng/Deng ISP 106.92 (JGP #3 Istanbul), 126.16 (Battle of the Blades)

Cooke/Kennedy* 105.85 (Middle Atlantics)
Delis/Schwab* (age-ineligible) 104.31 (Golden West), 88.94 (Glacier Falls)
Grohne/Lunt* (he still needs to pass his junior Pairs test - 89.42 at non-NQS Cup of Colorado last week in Novice)
Moss/Galbavy* (eligible for the ISP in 2024-25 per Slovak federation release) 103.04 (Middle Atlantics)
Rivers/Rensing* (age-ineligible) 101.39 (Glacier Falls)

Novice teams
Clara Finkelstein/Mark Williams 91.88 (Golden West), 78.43 (Glacier Falls)
Milada Kovar/Nickolai Apter 93.24 (Golden West) (her older brother, Kai, will be representing the USA at JGP #3 Istanbul)
Joyce Lu/Wyatt Lu 88.22 (Golden West)
Taisiya Shapovalova/Sebastian Malczyk 98.00 (Golden West), 93.59 (Glacier Falls) (his older brother, Damian, has been assigned to represent Czechia in men at JGP #5 Budapest & JGP #6 Gdandsk)
Tallulah Tanner/Sam Herbert 88.95 (Battle of the Blades)
Tyler VanWagner/Patrick VanWagner 37.14 (Middle Atlantics)
 
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Neudecker briefly posted that a picture suggesting they got Skate America and than promptly deleted it.
Hmmm... That would be a rather shocking choice, even if they do train at WASA and there's a lot of political pull there with USFS. One would have also expected, if this was true, that they'd have been assigned to one of the early Challengers, which they have not.

Right now - we have the following Challenger assignments for our Pairs teams -

Kam/O'Shea - Nebelhorn & Finlandia
Liu/Nagy - ACI & Finlandia
Martins/Bedard - ACI
Mokhovs - Nebelhorn
Plazas/Fernandez - Nebelhorn

Why give Kam/O'Shea two Challengers when they already have 2 GPs and a bye to Nationals? Plazas/Fernandez also have 2 GPs and are only doing one Challenger, which makes sense.

I can understand Liu/Nagy getting two Challengers ahead of SkAm.

Hanns/Neudecker aren't even listed as a SUBSTITUTE for any Challengers - the Mokhovs are the only subs listed for Finlandia, while Liu/Nagy are the only subs for Nebelhorn, and we don't have any subs for ACI.
Right? I'm really skeptical about this and curious and... Gonna have to keep my eyes peeled on IG, I suppose.
 
My bets are that Liu/Nagy are injured.
Eh... If they WD from ACI this week, I might be inclined to agree with this hypothesis, but 6 weeks out from SkAm, they wouldn't be replaced (and not by Hanns/Neudecker of all the teams we have in the mix) unless it was a significant injury. And, even then, I think the Mokhovs would be the more likely replacements, with Martins/Bedard (who we know are dealing with something - either minor injury or illness - which affected them this last week at John Nicks IPC) the next choice ahead of Hanns/Neudecker.
 
Reupdated sorry 😂
Interesting... I don't even know what to think of that. I'm gonna watch the John Nicks programs which have been uploaded to YT and maybe I'll have a different opinion but, based on the protocols, I wouldn't be giving them the spot, lol.
 
Interesting... I don't even know what to think of that. I'm gonna watch the John Nicks programs which have been uploaded to YT and maybe I'll have a different opinion but, based on the protocols, I wouldn't be giving them the spot, lol.
The performance was not Skate America quality. The choreo and program was very boring and compared to the other teams slow in speed. The lifts were all shaky in footwork and unimpressive- also second lasso didn't go up. The jumps were okay but no second triple or even 2a. The throws were the highlight.
When I watch Mokhovs back to back with H/N, I can't fathom USFS wouldn't pick the Mokhovs.
 
The performance was not Skate America quality. The choreo and program was very boring and compared to the other teams slow in speed. The lifts were all shaky in footwork and unimpressive- also second lasso didn't go up. The jumps were okay but no second triple or even 2a. The throws were the highlight.
When I watch Mokhovs back to back with H/N, I can't fathom USFS wouldn't pick the Mokhovs.
I like usfs spreading out the assignments. The mokhovs aren’t making the final anyway. So good for more teams to get experience. I h/n can do two triples so I assumed they were popped jumps.
 
The performance was not Skate America quality. The choreo and program was very boring and compared to the other teams slow in speed. The lifts were all shaky in footwork and unimpressive- also second lasso didn't go up. The jumps were okay but no second triple or even 2a. The throws were the highlight.
When I watch Mokhovs back to back with H/N, I can't fathom USFS wouldn't pick the Mokhovs.
You're right about the programs being deadly dull, choreographically. The lifts - her air position is really unattractive. How they managed positive GOE on the last one in their FS is beyond me. But, looking at the protocols - the aborted lift cost them approximately 6.50 points, which would have put them within 2 points of the Mokhovs in the final standings. The throws and the solid SBS 3Ts in the SP were all really good. The death spiral in the FS was also quite nice with a difficult entrance. Their SBS spins in the SP, on the other hand, were a hot mess - which is something I'm noticing with the WASA pairs teams in general. Drew & Natalia need a spin coach, for sure.

Having said all that, I do think that Grace & Danny are a better matched pair, size-wise, than the Mokhovs. With regard to long-term potential, I just am not seeing it in the Mokhovs because he is too small for her. Their throws are tiny and she has her own issues with consistently landing any SBS triples. And their twist was just as crashy as HanNeu in the SP. Both improved their twist catches in the FS.

Maybe after Nationals, the USFS can quietly yet strongly suggest a tryout for Maria with Danil Siianytsia.

I suppose I can see the logic in giving SkAm to HanNeu, if you apply the same logic to such a choice as was apparently used in giving Clare Seo the SkAm Women's TBD spot - the USFS already knew Ava was getting NHK and she's high enough up on the GP Alternates list to likely get a 2nd one if spots open up. Similarly, the USFS knows that the Mokhovs already have one GP and are high enough up on a very thin list to potentially get a 2nd one. This gets a team out there with an opportunity to get a SB and, if I'm being honest, I think it's sort of a coin toss between the two teams based on John Nicks IPC.
 
You're right about the programs being deadly dull, choreographically. The lifts - her air position is really unattractive. How they managed positive GOE on the last one in their FS is beyond me. But, looking at the protocols - the aborted lift cost them approximately 6.50 points, which would have put them within 2 points of the Mokhovs in the final standings.
They failed or also lost a lift at Cup of Colorado judging by the protocols as well as DS.

 
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