Russian Figure Skater tests positive for drugs - delays ceremony for team medals

Status
Not open for further replies.
I don't understand why some skaters are selected and others are not. Shouldn't all current skaters be subject to testing.
It depends on what you mean by "all current skaters." Do you mean everyone who goes to at least one ISU event? Or do they just have to be eligible for those events? Because there are thousands of skaters in the US alone who are skating at the Junior and Senior level and theoretically could end up getting sent to an ISU event of some sort and having them all be in the testing pool would be very expensive and time-consuming.
 
If Russia is out of international testing we can look forward to new catagories of substances from Rusada - something good and undetectable.
 
It depends on what you mean by "all current skaters." Do you mean everyone who goes to at least one ISU event? Or do they just have to be eligible for those events? Because there are thousands of skaters in the US alone who are skating at the Junior and Senior level and theoretically could end up getting sent to an ISU event of some sort and having them all be in the testing pool would be very expensive and time-consuming.
It should be all medalists from Worlds, 4CC and Europeans.
 
It should be all medalists from Worlds, 4CC and Europeans.
Why?
It is a big misconception that only medalists take doping. Moreover, they have already been tested as medalists. Top-athletes are already tested the most, just as medalists. Yes, it is important to test them out of competition, but this does not mean that testing them should be a priority. It is impossible to test everyone, there is a limit. Kamila's results came so late, partly because the labs are already working at their limit. Yes, you can test everyone, but who will analyze it and for how long?
 
Kamila's results came so late, partly because the labs are already working at their limit.
Yes, and also because they didn't mark it as priority, which they should have.

All this talk about Valieva and Sotnikova and the state sponsored doping program, I don't know. But I hear another song coming up. "All ABOARD the toxic doping train, you get a one way ticket to disqualification station. Toxic doping tra-a-a-a-ain, doping ain't a fact until your B sample comes back. We won't survive in the drama but hey... at least you had those quads"

I'm sorry, this is bad, I know this is serious and I shouldn't joke about it. But I couldn't help myself and that damn jingle is all over freaking Youtube.
 
they must provide a location where they will be for a specified hour of each day, every day of the year, at least 24 hours in advance.
Do they get to choose the hour, or is that dictated to them?

Kamila's results came so late, partly because the labs are already working at their limit.


Yes, and also because they didn't mark it as priority, which they should have.
Not partly or also: entirely because they didn't mark it "priority." There have been no reports at all that those marked as priority weren't processed as priority, even in Sweden, where they decided to let the virus rip, and they reportedly were short-staffed.

The only scenario I can think of that made sense of deliberately not marking it "priority" is if they suspected a failure and were counting on the results coming after the Olympics, not in the middle of them. Marking it "priority" and getting timely results would have given them options, based on how much punishment WADA would be willing to accept without raising a CAS protest.
 
Do they get to choose the hour, or is that dictated to them?
Athletes decide for themselves. They often choose the morning when they will definitely be at home.
Not partly or also: entirely because they didn't mark it "priority." There have been no reports at all that those marked as priority weren't processed as priority, even in Sweden, where they decided to let the virus rip, and they reportedly were short-staffed.
If the laboratory can analyze, for example, 100 samples per day, then if you mark 200 samples as priority, then they will not analyze more than 100 anyway.
 
It depends on what you mean by "all current skaters." Do you mean everyone who goes to at least one ISU event? Or do they just have to be eligible for those events? Because there are thousands of skaters in the US alone who are skating at the Junior and Senior level and theoretically could end up getting sent to an ISU event of some sort and having them all be in the testing pool would be very expensive and time-consuming.
Back when I skated it was all athletes who made it to Nationals. If you were in the funding envelopes or on the National team you were subject to USADA testing year round. For the skaters who made it to Junior Nationals, non-international levels, and made it without being a National team member you were only tested once: at Nationals itself. This meant even adult and collegiate synchro skaters were tested. I don't think they actively tested Juv/Int skaters in synchro, but they did for singles at Junior Nationals.

I'm not as in the loop about how it goes these days, but they no longer test everyone who makes it to Nationals. It seems they now keep the testing solely to those on the National team, those who receive funding, and those who are close to making the National team.
 
If the laboratory can analyze, for example, 100 samples per day, then if you mark 200 samples as priority, then they will not analyze more than 100 anyway.
There were no examples where items marked "priority", presumably almost all of them for the Olympics, were not processed in time. All of the rest of them were put behind priority, and even Valieva's, which was at the end of the line, was processed just after the Team Event, by the third day of the Olympics.
 
There were no examples where items marked "priority", presumably almost all of them for the Olympics, were not processed in time. All of the rest of them were put behind priority, and even Valieva's, which was at the end of the line, was processed just after the Team Event, by the third day of the Olympics.
How do you know how long the remaining samples were analyzed? We know about Valieva's test only because it turned out to be positive.
Besides, do you have any idea how long all the other samples will be analyzed? The ones that weren't prioritized? And they can also be positive.
It doesn't matter how you label the samples, because laboratories have a limit. If the laboratories were operating normally, then there would be no sense at all in indicating priority.
 
How do you know how long the remaining samples were analyzed? We know about Valieva's test only because it turned out to be positive.
Besides, do you have any idea how long all the other samples will be analyzed? The ones that weren't prioritized? And they can also be positive.
It doesn't matter how you label the samples, because laboratories have a limit. If the laboratories were operating normally, then there would be no sense at all in indicating priority.

The lab confirmed that they had processed all of the priority tests with time to spare, because they were accused of not having capacity for priority tests, and under that accusation/assumption, the second fingers were pointed at WADA for not certifying another lab to process Rusada's samples to be sure they were processed in time. And the lab had to clear its name, when the timing of Valieva's results showed that the IOC and/or WADA had clearly not confirmed that they had negative results for all of the Olympic athletes going into their events, and they let at least one athlete compete without having results present. So they had egg on their faces.

It is possible that they let other athletes compete without negative results in the first few days, while scrambling to confirm that there weren't other missing results, or for the rest of the Olympics, since it wasn't made public, but it wasn't because of this particular lab's priority processing record. So, yes, not marking it priority was the reason why this lab didn't process Valieva's sample until three days into the Olympics.

Unless, of course, you can show that the lab was lying.
 
The lab confirmed that they had processed all of the priority tests with time to spare, because they were accused of not having capacity for priority tests, and under that accusation/assumption, the second fingers were pointed at WADA for not certifying another lab to process Rusada's samples to be sure they were processed in time. And the lab had to clear its name, when the timing of Valieva's results showed that the IOC and/or WADA had clearly not confirmed that they had negative results for all of the Olympic athletes going into their events, and they let at least one athlete compete without having results present. So they had egg on their faces.

It is possible that they let other athletes compete without negative results in the first few days, while scrambling to confirm that there weren't other missing results, or for the rest of the Olympics, since it wasn't made public, but it wasn't because of this particular lab's priority processing record. So, yes, not marking it priority was the reason why this lab didn't process Valieva's sample until three days into the Olympics.

Unless, of course, you can show that the lab was lying.
This is not the first time an athlete has been disqualified during the Olympics for testing positive before the Olympics.
 
This is not the first time an athlete has been disqualified during the Olympics for testing positive before the Olympics.
And the specific circumstances were? There are several possible scenarios I can think of off the top of my head.

None of which has anything to do with Valieva's case, where the results were not processed as priority, and this particular lab cleared all of the priority tests before the Olympics.
 
Posting :eek: excerpts -- relevant to this thread -- from Irina Rodnina's interview with RIA Novosti Sport (links are posted in the Russian figure skating news thread here):

Irina Rodnina: ... Shcherbakova performed consistently both physically and mentally in Beijing.

But who could withstand the pressure that came down on Kamila Valieva? And she’s also a strong-willed girl.

Irina Rodnina: She’s a determined girl. I felt really sorry for her because, in my opinion, she was the most gifted among all the girls in her generation. She had excellent qualities — both in terms of figure and appearance. That’s why I liked Medvedeva; she was vibrant. Valieva has the same quality.

[...]

Irina Rodnina: Nevertheless, I’ll continue. Next, we have 2022 — already three girls. And that hysteria at the Olympics. It means something is not quite right there.

But what’s wrong with that reaction? Well, there was hysteria, yes. The girl was going for that medal, but it didn’t work out, so she was upset. She’s a living person with a still-developing mindset.

Irina Rodnina: Then she [Trusova] has no business being at the senior Olympics. That’s what the Youth Olympics are for.

[...]

Irina Rodnina: ... Valieva is talented, I already said that. But what happened to her (at the Olympics), honestly, nobody talks about it. That’s the failure of her coaching team. But it happened, and you know it perfectly well. We just speak loudly about some things and bury our heads in the sand about others. So, they broke the girl. And the coach and doctor are responsible for her. And all those stories she told, which made the IOC and the whole world laugh…

You mean the grandfather’s glass?

Irina Rodnina: Yes. Well, let’s be honest.

What should be done in such a situation?

Irina Rodnina: In my opinion, we should speak honestly.

When we were in Beijing, the next day, when everything was revealed, we broke into the zone where Eteri was training and asked her directly. She replied, ‘I don’t deal with gossip.’

Irina Rodnina: And you’re asking me about the problems in that coaching team after that.

Does Eteri herself know who is to blame?

Irina Rodnina: I don’t know. I can only say one thing — there’s a joint failure here. Why don’t we take our own doping tests in parallel to know what we’re getting into? Everyone knew that there would be a hunt for these girls. So we should be prepared for that. These are the problems we’re talking about.

Then let’s look at it from a different perspective, we’re now almost acknowledging that something unpleasant happened in this doping story from our side. But at the same time, the official rhetoric is that Kamila is an innocent child, and nothing happened. Why do we do that?

Irina Rodnina: I have the same question. You’re the one presenting it in such a way.

No, essentially it’s the official position of our authorities, including the ROC and the Ministry of Sports.

Irina Rodnina: Then why do we ask about the punishments that are being imposed on us? Yes, there’s a political undertone to all this, but there should be some consequences.

So, we intentionally anger people?

Irina Rodnina: It’s hard to say. But at the same time, only in sports is there the category of fair play. It doesn’t exist anywhere else — not in business, not in politics, especially. Sports has clear rules and a system of punishment for violations. How many Olympic medals did we lose between 2004 and 2014?

A lot.

Irina Rodnina: Well, more than forty for sure. And did anyone take responsibility for it? I’m not even talking about punishment — just responsibility.

Except for reshuffling people from one position to another.

Irina Rodnina: Exactly, you said it right — reshuffling. Worked with the women’s biathlon team, and they got caught, so they were transferred to the youth team.

But that can’t be changed anymore.

Irina Rodnina: Then why do we exclaim that we’re not liked?

Because Americans have fake smiles, and we are sincere. That’s what they say, at least.

Irina Rodnina: They just have better dentists. The next question that our journalists wrote a lot about — how is it that WADA gave only 19 therapeutic use exemptions to Russian athletes while giving 500 to Americans and Canadians? But the thing is, I was part of the commission representing Russia, led by Smirnov, and we made a request. WADA replied, ‘We gave you as many as you requested.’

So, we don’t have requests for therapeutic use exemptions?

Irina Rodnina: Exactly! We are completely illiterate in this matter.

You know who was the first to say that we don’t know how to determine therapeutic use exemptions? Chegin.

Irina Rodnina: Let’s even look at our sports medicine as a whole. We don’t have antidepressants, they’re non-existent here, while they are widely used in the West. Do you know what happens to our athletes after competitions?

In cyclic sports, they always did biochemistry at the end of the season, in the beginning, in the middle — wherever they could. Once we shouted for them to check us (figure skaters) too. It was during the 1984 Olympics. The boys refused to take blood samples before and after the competitions, but the girls agreed, we are more courageous. So, after the short program, the blood reaction of the female single skaters was like that of cross-country skiers after a ten-kilometer race. The short program lasts for two minutes.

We don’t know what processes, what changes occur in our bodies. Our entire medicine was focused on cyclic sports, not those involving coordination and a different mindset. I was fortunate to work in the same international center as Michelle Kwan [the now defunct Ice Castle rink in Lake Arrowhead, CA], where they help athletes recover from this state. But with us, on the contrary, there is a decline after competitions — not physical, but psychological. Especially because these girls are getting younger and younger, and we always think, ‘Oh, with the young ones, everything will pass quickly.’ But not everything passes.

That’s what we should focus on, instead of searching for drugs that will quickly restore you.
 
Last edited:
@coppertop1 I definitely wonder how much of the negativity about Trusova is catty and how much is related to behind the scenes drama.

There's been many reports of her not listening to coaches and/or only caring about her jumping - and there's been multiple confirmations that it was, in part, why she left Eteri and then Plushenko. We've also heard multiple rumors of her/her Dad causing issues with the Russian media and broadcasting stuff. Based on Rodnina's comments, it seems she was just another confirmation of those things we've already heard.

But if you read the context of the part you're criticizing more closely, she wasn't criticizing Trusova as much as she was criticizing Eteri and the Russian system. Throughout the interview she talks about how Russia is relying too much on teenagers and youth. She also talked about how the Eteri pipeline system is psychologically harmful to her skaters. She used Trusova's meltdown as an example of both problems coming to a head.
 
Hearing people be so judgy toward Trusova bothers me. She wasn't having a tantrum, she had an emotional breakdown. How dare she?

But a good interview overall. Refreshing to hear a Russian not drink the kool-aid
I thought she was referring to Trusova's skating quality - I can see it both ways.
 
That is also what I wanted! And this "revelation" probably makes Gracie Gold sad too.
I remember Gracie saying in an interview that she thought her competitive career would be over sooner rather than later, so I think she probably would have happily retired after Sochi with an Olympic bronze medal and went on to college. She would have had no sense of competing against futility and developed an eating disorder :wuzrobbed

Gracie did know for quite some time that she might have been the rightful Olympic Bronze medalist.

''As far as I know, everything is still under investigation, so I can't really speak to that,'' Gold said during a conference call Thursday, as she prepared for next week's U.S. championships.

''I've always chosen to skate clean,'' Gold added. ''I do believe doping is unfair to all the other athletes. That's kind of what I have to say about that. I've always chosen to compete clean and compete my best as a clean athlete. It's certainly causing some headlines, though.''

Yet, Gracie was a class act about it.

''I competed against Adelina for many years,'' Gold said. ''I loved her. She's still a sweetheart. I've done shows with her. A lot of Russians, I've found them to be kind of lovely people despite the stigma'' of doping that has become associated with them.

 
Last edited:
Irina Rodnina: Then why do we exclaim that we’re not liked?

Because Americans have fake smiles, and we are sincere. That’s what they say, at least.

Irina Rodnina: They just have better dentists.
:D:D:D Amazing line.

There's a lot of really insightful stuff in that interview, about why Russia has fewer TUEs and how the sports system there might be able to ACTUALLY support athletes instead of using and harming them. It's refreshing to read.
 
@coppertop1 I definitely wonder how much of the negativity about Trusova is catty and how much is related to behind the scenes drama.

There's been many reports of her not listening to coaches and/or only caring about her jumping - and there's been multiple confirmations that it was, in part, why she left Eteri and then Plushenko. We've also heard multiple rumors of her/her Dad causing issues with the Russian media and broadcasting stuff. Based on Rodnina's comments, it seems she was just another confirmation of those things we've already heard.

But if you read the context of the part you're criticizing more closely, she wasn't criticizing Trusova as much as she was criticizing Eteri and the Russian system. Throughout the interview she talks about how Russia is relying too much on teenagers and youth. She also talked about how the Eteri pipeline system is psychologically harmful to her skaters. She used Trusova's meltdown as an example of both problems coming to a head.
Possibly both? It sounds like Sasha is stubborn and that can be a good thing but can backfire. But the culture in Russian figure skating seems very toxic, as well. I mistook Rodnina'words, in that case. I age about the pipeline being extremely damaging psychologically to these girls. The constant interchangeable teenage prodigies hurt the sport as well
 
:D:D:D Amazing line.

There's a lot of really insightful stuff in that interview, about why Russia has fewer TUEs and how the sports system there might be able to ACTUALLY support athletes instead of using and harming them. It's refreshing to read.
Indeed, more TEs. There wouldn't be any scandal if they had a better understanding of the system for getting TEs.

How different would Kolyada's career be had he taken some antidepressants that would have allowed him to focus.

For context: ADHD in Russia was nonexistent as a medical diagnosis until recently, whereas in the US it's a very common diagnosis. Simon Biles had TEs for that condition. On the other hand, there is a common diagnosis of "vegetative-vascular dystonia", which is non-existent in many other countries, and that's why meldonium is common because it treats that common diagnosis.
 
Last edited:
Antidepressants aren't banned by WADA, at least according to a quick Google search.
This is correct. Most if not all depression and anxiety meds aren't banned. The only one that is on any list is Wellbutrin, but it's not even banned, it's just in the monitoring program. I only know this because I was on it years ago and the WADA list came up when I googled it. But every other psych med that I know of isn't on the banned or monitoring program. But I'll say this, having been on many antidepressants, I wouldn't want to be on most of them if I were an active athlete.
 
Indeed, more TEs. There wouldn't be any scandal if they had a better understanding of the system for getting TEs.

I do agree, more TEs would lead to less scandal because it is considered transparent.

How different would Kolyada's career be had he taken some antidepressants that would have allowed him to focus.

It's hard to say, but an opportunity to try is worthwhile.

For context: ADHD in Russia was nonexistent as a medical diagnosis until recently, whereas in the US it's a very common diagnosis. Simon Biles had TEs for that condition. On the other hand, there is a common diagnosis of "vegetative-vascular dystonia", which is non-existent in many other countries, and that's why meldonium is common because it treats that common diagnosis.

However, what they might find is that, in terms of certain aspects of quality of life, particularly for dopamine driven people,

in comparison to American or "Western" drugs,

Russia has the better drugs.
 
Last edited:
Antidepressants aren't banned by WADA, at least according to a quick Google search.
Interesting. I wonder how widespread AD use in figure skating is, as it definitely can regulate performance anxiety. Not talking about the Russian team anyway, as mental health care in Russia is nascent.
 
However, what they might find is that, in terms of certain aspects of quality of life, particularly for dopamine driven people,

in comparison to American or "Western" drugs,

Russia has the better drugs.
Okay but you’re only looking at one specific side effect here, and most people find their “quality of life” increases on antidepressants.
 
Okay but you’re only looking at one specific side effect here, and most people find their “quality of life” increases on antidepressants.

I am going to 100% agree with you (y)

I am fine with it seeming to be contradictory and an admission of being wrong or shortsighted.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top
Do Not Sell My Personal Information