Peacock Subscription Discount

[BlueRidge]

I suspect it has to do with money, but what triggered it is unknown.

I do know that any hour I can watch replays of football NFL, college, even high school. Some from 70 years ago. Why is that...money, advertising dollars, subscription dollars. We haven't even considered the limited viewing audience and limited ad dollars.

Yes definitely about money, and it certainly could just be that it isn't worth the extra pennies it takes to put up and keep up the replays. We just are not of enough value for Peacock to be bothered.

If we were of any value and it were about the sue-em band, they'd settle with them and move on. That happens all the time.

 

[LeafOnTheWind]

The best thing that could ever happen is for NBC/Peacock to give up tv rights to skating and for USFS to allow it as well. Then we can have the ISU streams without VPN. Peacock has never been as good as the ISU stream anyway. How many times have they cutoff something and almost never show the medal ceremonies?

 

[genevieve]

In any case, what indication do we have that KN's music situation is the reason for the replays being taken down, other than the fact it was after the KN thing happened that Peacock stopped having the replays?

For Olympics, and I think Worlds, Peacock had replays of all disciplines except Pairs (for Olys, it was just the Pairs FS, can't remember for Worlds), which certainly makes me suspect that it's in response to the K/F lawsuit. I'm assuming once the season ended, Peacock met with lawyers who said the easiest way to contain any potential liability going forward would be to just eliminate all replays.

Without, you know, telling fans while pushing subscriptions

BTW, since I had the Peacock sub, I decided to give the show Superstore a try (a friend loves it). And then I realized I could watch it on Hulu without commercials. Peacock sux

 

[BlueRidge]

For Olympics, and I think Worlds, Peacock had replays of all disciplines except Pairs (for Olys, it was just the Pairs FS, can't remember for Worlds), which certainly makes me suspect that it's in response to the K/F lawsuit. I'm assuming once the season ended, Peacock met with lawyers who said the easiest way to contain any potential liability going forward would be to just eliminate all replays.

Without, you know, telling fans while pushing subscriptions

But isn't this all assumption? Have we ever heard anything from Peacock/NBC or USFSA about the reason for no replays?

I'd just like to see some confirmation of some kind. Which we won't because they don't regard figure skating fans as of any consequence it seems. OTOH, figure skating--the USFSA and the ISU--do benefit from money from broadcasting rights. I don't think we as fans really want to see that go away, that wouldn't make things better.

We're just screwed but at least there are still ways to watch a lot of figure skating.

 

[clairecloutier]

But isn't this all assumption? Have we ever heard anything from Peacock/NBC or USFSA about the reason for no replays?

No. We have heard nothing. They have offered no rationale for their action and haven't made a public statement about it, AFAIK, although they've been directly asked about it on Twitter. Nor has USFS officially acknowledged or explained what happened. That's one of the things that angers me about this whole incident. Fans are treated as if they don't even deserve an explanation for a reversal of coverage that had been standard for at least 10 years.

Everyone's drawn the conclusion that it's because of the K/F music lawsuit, and that is possibly or probably true, but it has not been confirmed.

Another question I have is, why is this a problem for NBC, but apparently not the ISU or other streamers of skating coverage??

 

[BlueRidge]

In the case of USFSA, is it that they don't want to rock the boat because they need NBC/Peacock much more than NBC needs them?

 

[maureenfarone]

No. We have heard nothing. They have offered no rationale for their action and haven't made a public statement about it, AFAIK, although they've been directly asked about it on Twitter. Nor has USFS officially acknowledged or explained what happened. That's one of the things that angers me about this whole incident. Fans are treated as if they don't even deserve an explanation for a reversal of coverage that had been standard for at least 10 years.

Everyone's drawn the conclusion that it's because of the K/F music lawsuit, and that is possibly or probably true, but it has not been confirmed.

Another question I have is, why is this a problem for NBC, but apparently not the ISU or other streamers of skating coverage??

USFS partnered with MLB Media in 2005 when IceNetwork was created and continued offering streaming plus articles and news until 2018. NBC Sports Gold took over the streaming service when IN was shutdown and continued until it was moved to Peacock so we have had 17 years of streaming and replays until now.

I would love to hear the official reason why the archives have been removed and no replays are going to be available but NBC, USFS, and Peacock have not responded to any emails I've sent. I'm in agreement with Claire that nothing has been confirmed on what happened to bring this drastic change. I am concerned that this may impact other federations or the ISU on whether they will be offering replays on comps as we go forward into the GP series, Europeans, 4CC and Worlds.

 

[AJ Skatefan]

What’s the email address for Peacock? Can’t find it on the website

 

[Sylvia]

Peacock is operated by NBCUniversal (eta that Comcast owns NBCU).

I think fans should voice their discontent directly to USFS' current Executive Director: https://www.usfigureskating.org/executive-director-ramsey-baker

As U.S. Figure Skating’s Chief Marketing Officer, Baker oversaw U.S. Figure Skating’s relationships with its corporate partners generating exponential growth during his tenure. He also played an important role in the organization’s negotiation of media rights deals and the day-to-day relationship with NBC Universal and other media partners.
In 2018, he was one of the architects of U.S. Figure Skating’s eight-year extension with NBC Universal

[email protected]

 

[maureenfarone]

What’s the email address for Peacock? Can’t find it on the website

The email address I used was [email protected]. I received an automated response that I would be contacted in 24 hours but never received the response.

Per @Sylvia suggestion I am sending another email to USFS.

 

[Sylvia]

Interesting read (Oct. 6):

It’s Time to Start Worrying About Peacock

Can the streaming service come back from the dead?

www.vulture.com

 

[tony]

The email address I used was [email protected]. I received an automated response that I would be contacted in 24 hours but never received the response.

Per @Sylvia suggestion I am sending another email to USFS.

Interesting read (Oct. 6):

It’s Time to Start Worrying About Peacock

Can the streaming service come back from the dead?

www.vulture.com

Peacock has so much great content IMO, and I know a lot of people are now rotating streaming services based on what becomes available each month or sharing with others. I think all streaming services are going to hit some kind of wall on new subscribers because of said rotating, or increasing prices (Netflix). HBOMax is apparently just about 'dead', as well, and it has one of the most extensive libraries of shows/movies that can't be found anywhere else.

And I know skating fans don't want to hear this- but I've mentioned since day one that Peacock is heavily marketed on things like The Office, NFL, WWE, and whatever else will bring them in a lot of hopeful money. Figure skating isn't in that place in the US, and hasn't been for a long time now. Peacock customer service is going to know exactly zero about what is happening regarding music licensing for figure skating, no matter how many Tweets or emails one sends. ETA- there are also constant free trials of the service, so skating fans who have no interest in anything else on Peacock have always had this option to scour the internet for the newest coupon code to get through skating seasons and lose exactly $0.

The answer needs to come from the USFS and/or NBC, who moved the content to Peacock to begin.

 

[ross_hy]

In the case of USFSA, is it that they don't want to rock the boat because they need NBC/Peacock much more than NBC needs them?

I think that's exactly what it is. When I contacted USFS, they basically passed the buck on the issue to NBC. USFS probably figures that if the "Olympic" network doesn't show their programming, nobody will (and they're probably right).

 

[Karen-W]

The answer needs to come from the USFS and/or NBC, who moved the content to Peacock to begin.

Well, NBC moved the content to Peacock, along with all of their other sports content, in an effort to bring all that they offer under one platform, which, strategically, makes some sense. I don't know what the answer is at this point, beyond the USFS retaining the rights to provide the content on-demand on the USFS Fanzone after a certain period of time has elapsed for NBC to air it - if that's even feasible. Who knows?

 

[AJ Skatefan]

Just canceled Peacock

 

[rfisher]

I would think the question should be, does Peacock archive other sports? If so, then the issue if figure skating. If not, the issue is not figure skating. But, skating is just not that popular in the US. Just look at the audience size at live events.

But, there is an alternative if you want to get a good VPN and watch the ISU stream. That may or may not help with US nationals.

 

[Sylvia]

I want to watch the 3 upcoming Sectionals (Senior/Junior events plus U.S. Pairs & Dance Finals) coming up next month so am keeping Peacock for now.

 

[clairecloutier]

I would think the question should be, does Peacock archive other sports?

A quick look at Peacock Sports reveals that there are a ton of replays available for all kinds of sports, from tennis to swimming to cycling.

So, replays are not some kind of oddball thing that only figure skating fans would make use of.

But the fact that we're the only sport missing them definitely has to mean something. Sigh.

 

[Sylvia]

But the fact that we're the only sport missing them definitely has to mean something. Sigh.

No replays for the most recent U.S. National Gymnastics Championships either (4 tweets in this thread): https://twitter.com/mercuryblush/status/1563722058890153989

ETA:

For Twitter users, @PeacockTVCare's second reply in the thread ends with:
"We greatly appreciate your feedback and will pass it along to the appropriate team. Feel free to DM us with any other questions."

 

[Amy L]

I would think the question should be, does Peacock archive other sports? If so, then the issue if figure skating. If not, the issue is not figure skating. But, skating is just not that popular in the US. Just look at the audience size at live events.

I gave Peacock a quick browse (it's free with Xfinity so I'm not cancelling it). It looks like the other sports have replays available, but skating is the only sport on Peacock that is music dependent. Artistic swimming and rhythmic gymnastics aren't on there at all, so there's no similar sport to compare it to.

 

[Theatregirl1122]

I would think the question should be, does Peacock archive other sports? If so, then the issue if figure skating. If not, the issue is not figure skating. But, skating is just not that popular in the US. Just look at the audience size at live events.

But, there is an alternative if you want to get a good VPN and watch the ISU stream. That may or may not help with US nationals.

Cycling is archived on Peacock.

 

[Frau Muller]

The three Sectionals are happening on the same dates (or very close); all three are in the period of Nov 8-12/or13/or14, 2022. If the USFS wants all three to be seen, then some reviewing will have to happen, even if it’s just for 3-4 days. The GS John Wilson Trophy is also happening that weekend.

 

[rfisher]

Well, it would seem it's music. This happens with some YouTube feeds of smaller competitions that will drop the feed due to copyright issues. I don't think there's going to be much anyone can do about that if this is something that came from their legal department. They probably don't want the aggravation and don't think the loss of some subscribers to be worth it. Face, it. @tony is right. People subscribe and drop screening services all the time depending on the content. I know I do. The FSU posters who've dropped won't even register on their account balance sheets.

 

[clairecloutier]

So NBC doesn't give AF and USFS is powerless. I guess that's what we've come to here??

 

[Sylvia]

The three Sectionals are happening on the same dates (or very close); all three are in the period of Nov 8-12/or13/or14, 2022.

So far only the Pacific Coast Sectional has published a preliminary schedule with times. Based on what I've compiled for myself, Thursday, November 10 will likely have overlaps between the Eastern & Midwestern Sectional Sr./Jr. events and possibly Saturday, November 12 (Easterns Senior Men/Women conclude and Pacs Sr./Jr. events begin).

If the USFS wants all three to be seen, then some reviewing will have to happen, even if it’s just for 3-4 days. The GS John Wilson Trophy is also happening that weekend.

I plan to bring up the topic of the 3 U.S. Sectionals & the Sheffield GP in my email to Mr. Baker.

 

[BlueRidge]

I plan to watch what live streams I'm available for on Peacock and I'm glad to have that option at least. I hope somehow they can be convinced to bring back the replays. I kind of assume that that the livestreaming is just an adjunct to the NBC skating broadcasts. I just don't see how skating livestreams would bring in enough revenue by themselves. Crumbs sure, but sometimes crumbs are all you get.

 

[MacMadame]

No replays for the most recent U.S. National Gymnastics Championships either (4 tweets in this thread): https://twitter.com/mercuryblush/status/1563722058890153989

Music.

I gave Peacock a quick browse (it's free with Xfinity so I'm not cancelling it).

Can we even cancel? That would be work on their part so why would they do that for something we get for free?

 

[Amy L]

Can we even cancel? That would be work on their part so why would they do that for something we get for free?

I guess I could ask Peacock to delete my info and close the account but since I'm not paying them anyway I don't want to put in the effort.

 

[crzesk8dad]

Just for information, here is a legal point of view about the K/F lawsuit (which was settled in July 2022):

Copyright Infringement at the Winter Olympics: House of the Rising Sun - Marks Gray

What do you imagine when you hear “Winter Olympics”? Steep hills of snow, racers on skis, lyrical ice skaters… And copyright infringement? Musicians and brothers Robert and Aron Marderosian – known as the musical artist “Heavy Young Heathens” – are waging a copyright infringement case against...

www.marksgray.com

 

[tony]

Just for information, here is a legal point of view about the K/F lawsuit (which was settled in July 2022):

Copyright Infringement at the Winter Olympics: House of the Rising Sun - Marks Gray

What do you imagine when you hear “Winter Olympics”? Steep hills of snow, racers on skis, lyrical ice skaters… And copyright infringement? Musicians and brothers Robert and Aron Marderosian – known as the musical artist “Heavy Young Heathens” – are waging a copyright infringement case against...

www.marksgray.com

I know I read up a bit on this when it happened, but there's a linked article within this page that says the following:

Luckily for figure skaters, their Olympic routines are considered live performances, and therefore require a much less costly licensing agreement. Also luckily for figure skaters, they’re pretty far removed from both the paperwork and the payment. Instead, the broadcaster—in this case, NBC—is responsible.

So live performance follows a different set of rules, but we have one article saying it falls on K/F partially and the very article that this lawyer links to saying it falls on the broadcaster. I know I read somewhere a long time ago that the ISU or USFS or maybe both, or maybe it was the broadcasters themselves pay a huge sum to cover music situations, so it's still not clear what really happened here based on what has been put out there. There's the following quote in the same article, but it's not where I had read about the blanket fee previously:

As IPWatchdog explains, many musicians and music publishers outsource licensing power for their entire catalogs to public rights organizations (PROs) like Broadcasting Music Inc. (BMI) and the American Society of Composers, Authors and Publishers (ASCAP). TV networks, performance venues, and other music-playing establishments can then buy a blanket license that grants them public performance rights to every song under the PRO’s purview. Blanket license fees aren’t one-size-fits-all; they depend on everything from audience size to frequency, and licensees are often expected to track their music use so the PROs can determine artist royalties.

The Mental Floss page also links to one of their own pages stating vocals aren't allowed as a rule (written 2016) and that the US 'medals every time' in their 15 facts, so..

The IPWatchdog page linked in the above says:

Fortunately for NBC, the Olympics qualify as a live event, so no synchronization licenses were required. NBC paid the blanket fee and a separate royalty for each performance of a song. This, more than any other factor, may explain how the Beatles, Beyoncé, Oasis, and other artists could be heard at the Olympics. If NBC had had to pay synchronization fees, it might have been prohibitively expensive. The cost of synchronization licenses for Beatles music, for example, runs into six figures.

This is not to say that the artists are left empty-handed. Eventually their portions of the blanket fee and royalty payments will reach them through the performing rights organizations (such as BMI or ASCAP) they use to license their musical works. A greater benefit of an artist music being used in the competition is exposure to 19.8 million viewers—the number of people who watched the 2018 winter Olympic games. That kind of exposure is almost impossible to buy.

And it also tackles the question of how to go about recorded performances at the end of the article.

To me, more than blaming K/F for any of this, it seems the fault is on NBC who may have gotten lazy and finally called out.

While NBC may appear to have the situation tied up with a nice bow, some pesky questions remain. Chief among them is what happens when NBC airs replays of ice skating, songs blaring. Does that still count as a live performance, or would a synchronization license be required? What about those who were at the event and streamed the performance via YouTube, for example, but paid no blanket license fee? What will happen to all of the unauthorized videos of ice skating, including the songs, that will inevitably pop up on YouTube? Let’s just say that although the games are over, NBC must still be grappling with these issues in the weeks to come.