Russian Figure Skater tests positive for drugs - delays ceremony for team medals

[SidelineSkater]

Not to rehash the intrusive cameras backstage…

But NBC isn’t the only broadcaster who does this. Ive noticed a lot of the European events, Euros and 4CCs and Worlds have done backstage cams in various setups for years.

Remember the Joubert/Brezina (or Verner) love fest while one was backstage and the other was in the KnC?

I get that it’s an emotional pressure cooker. However it should not be a surprise to any of these skaters, especially the last group of ladies, there are lots of cameras around. Unfortunately, you sacrifice privacy in exchange for competing. It’s part of being a competitor. It’s the ugly side of sports where you are on a stage and your best or worst moments are on display.

In fact, I’ve not been a fan of a certain skater who I was on a flight with after US nats about ten years ago. She was complaining and very rude to her mother. Asking her to swap seats. Demanding her to fetch her luggage. She could have been having a bad day or disappointed with her results. I try to remember she’s human too - but it left a bad impression and I’ve never been able to fully appreciate her skating.

On the other hand, if there were no cameras backstage, there would be a lot of speculation of what happened/what was said. The camera crews and production staff are doing their jobs by capturing the action for better or worse.

I admit it was horrible to witness the meltdowns, the lonely champion, etc.

Has there ever been another situation at either of the winter/summer games where medals weren’t awarded until later? Not a post games doping or other reason to rearward medals…but an instance of ‘let’s wait to do medals until later’?

 

[overedge]

Anna is in the very same environment, and she doesn't act that way. In fact she said she is not motivated by wins, but rather by setting goals in her skating and being able to show it.

Then why was she having a crying fit at the Olympics and saying "everyone has a gold medal except me"?

 

[skatfan]

Has there ever been another situation at either of the winter/summer games where medals weren’t awarded until later? Not a post games doping or other reason to rearward medals…but an instance of ‘let’s wait to do medals until later’?

I can’t think of one, which is why I think the athletes were so upset. This was about the image of the Olympics trumping the reward to the athletes.

 

[skatfan]

Then why was she having a crying fit at the Olympics and saying "everyone has a gold medal except me"?

Anna was the lonely calm gold winner, it was Trusova who won the bronze having the meltdown.

 

[Sylvia]

Anna was the lonely calm gold winner, it was Trusova who won the bronze

Silver.

(YAY Kaori again! )

 

[muffinplus]

Then why was she having a crying fit at the Olympics and saying "everyone has a gold medal except me"?

Huh? That was Sasha. Anna was not having a meltdown.

 

[skatfan]

Silver.

(YAY Kaori again! )

Duh - thank you Silvia!

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Additionally, he and Chock were the Team Event Co-Captains for Team USA. He is, very much, an obvious choice.

You know me it’s hard for me to keep up in these threads. is there comments about Evan being criticized for saying they should not have been held there? Because I just finished reading this article right now

Beijing Olympics a ‘complete failure’ for the international community

Beijing Olympics a ‘complete failure’ for the international community: Democratic strategist — Fox News

The 2022 Beijing Winter Olympics was a “complete failure," on behalf of the international community, Democratic strategist Kevin Walling said Sunday, pointing to the historically low viewership as proof of widespread disproval over the Beijing-hosted event.

apple.news

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Anna was the lonely calm gold winner, it was Trusova who won the bronze having the meltdown.

And ANL was the guy pigging out on peanut M&Ms on his sofa

 

[Mayra]

Anna is in the very same environment, and she doesn't act that way. In fact she said she is not motivated by wins, but rather by setting goals in her skating and being able to show it... Now I don't know if she is being coy saying "Results don't matter" (I'm not sure that's 100 percent true) but she is not as focused on that...

There was a video floating around twitter with Anna and Kaori after the ladies event. You can see Kaori crying and crouching besides the couch and Anna is there hugging a sobbing Kaori from behind. The Japanese contingent arrive shorty after and Anna is left standing there until Dani G shows up and hugs Anna.

Say what you want about that training environment and Eteri, but Anna seems like a genuinely nice person.

 

[overedge]

Huh? That was Sasha. Anna was not having a meltdown.

By "Sasha" you mean Alexandra? Thanks for the clarification.

 

[canbelto]

Islam might be a "prescriptive" religion (whatever that means), but standards of dress, modesty, and observation vary. Women in Iran have to wear a hair covering but most would never wear a niqab, the way women in, say, Saudi Arabia do. But both Iranians and Saudis would consider themselves "observant Muslims."

I suppose this is related to Kamila being Muslim? Or something.

 

[muffinplus]

By "Sasha" you mean Alexandra? Thanks for the clarification.

Yes Alexandra

 

[Lilia A]

Remember the Joubert/Brezina (or Verner) love fest while one was backstage and the other was in the KnC?

Yup, one of my favorite moments ever. It was with Verner.
What I can recall was that Joubert was in the KnC and blew a kiss at the camera (as he always did, for which I'm very grateful lol) and then they showed Verner backstage who blew a kiss back and thumbs up. The crowd loved it, so Joubert blew one more kiss along with a sexy look. Verner was hysterical (laughing) and the crowd went nuts. I remember it like it was yesterday.
Pretty sure this was also the time Joubert got a bizarre music deduction for his SP even though he had been using that same music all season long. I also still remember the very confused look on his face when he saw the one point deduction, not knowing what it was about. I was confused as hell too, so I don't blame him.

 

[KaoriFan]

I just heard Johnny and Tara on NBC with Mike Tirico and the discussion really troubled me. They were discussing how terrible it was what Valieva experienced. (They didn't have much discussion about what others experienced as a result of her doping.) When Mike brought up the issue of raising the age limit, Tara and Johnny said that they didn't see a good solution with that because so many female skaters peak at 15 or 16.

It's kind of amazing how Johnny and Tara are the worst thing for USFS.

Like Tara is pro-15 year old little girl obviously, and Johnny is pro-Russian. They are better politicking for Russian 15 year old skaters than Pravda could ever dream!

 

[Katha]

IMO the problem is that the doping is enmeshed in the abuse and it opens up a discusssion about figure skating practices that goes beyond Russia. That's why Tara is in such a difficult position when talking about it. Like, she needed a hip surgery at 18, so would need to unpack a lot about her own career when talking about age limits. I can understand that she might have a mental block there.

And that's why the conversation in general is so difficult. IMO CAS and the IOC recognized that this is about child abuse and that Valieva is a victim and then came up with misguided "solutions" for this because they don't know how to deal with any of it. Figure skating has a long and troubled history of ushering in very young girls in particular into the sport and then discarding them. It manifests in different ways in Western countries since it is privately financed, but yeah. And all the jokes about "skating parents" have not so funny foundations.

Then you have a culture of grin and bear it, don't complain and you get results like Sappenfield or Zakrajsek pushing skaters to skate through injury. It's organized by the state in countries like Russia or China, but FS as a whole needs to have these discussions. And it has started to some degree, but there's a long way to go.

 

[KaoriFan]

Here is Gracie Gold article:

https://www.thecut.com/2022/02/america-olympic-medals-womens-singles-skating.html

USFS should be politicking for age limit because otherwise, it's easy for state-sponsored system like Russia to abuse girls into all 15 year old skaters, one champion, lots of broken bodies and ruined lives. Just like the Karolyis did with USA gymnastics. I get that USFS tries for age limit, but Russia pours more money into the sport, buying the votes of small little countries, so they can keep doing what they do.

But at least don't have your TV commentators spread the propaganda too!

 

[millyskate]

Tara is in a tough spot. She probably recognises herself a lot in the young Russian skaters. She won an OGM at 15 by outjumping her seniors, with the help of the same bodytype everyone is now criticising and the hundreds of jump repetitions everyone is also speaking out against. She also incurred career ending injuries but doesn't seem to regret them at all as they have given her the life she had
Tara wasn't doped as far as we know and didn't have to endure anyone preventing her from drinking water. But she might well be afraid of being accused of hypocrisy if she criticises anyone too loudly.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Lipinsky has said as an adult that it was all worth it to her, and I've never read that she's changed her mind, so she'd recognize that in the Russian competitors and empathize, and not want to get in their way.

 

[overedge]

IMO Tara's there as a commentator and an expert, and that means acknowledging all perspectives, not just the ones that fit with her own experiences. She and her mom certainly got enough criticism back in the day for her being too young to do what she was doing, and for being pushed too hard. She might think now that it was all worth it, but surely she can understand that others might not feel the same way when all is said and done.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Yeah, I feel like she's treated like a cross between an op-ed writer and someone who's supposed to give her own perspective. Toller Cranston wasn't much different: it was always about him.

(ETA: I shouldn't try to type on my amazon fire as I'm falling asleep because the original looked rather drunken...)

 

[KaoriFan]

IMO Tara's there as a commentator and an expert, and that means acknowledging all perspectives, not just the ones that fit with her own experiences. She and her mom certainly got enough criticism back in the day for her being too young to do what she was doing, and for being pushed too hard. She might think now that it was all worth it, but surely she can understand that others might not feel the same way when all is said and done.

Right. It might be worth it for Tara, but what about the other girls she skated against who weren't Tara? What happened to them? Maybe it will be even worse for the Russian girls who don't win any medal and nearly die trying. What happened to Yulia was so sad.

 

[Frau Muller]

I'd also include LuMit in that mix - provided they can find some personality in their skating (same can be said for SafBeru, to be honest, though).

You’re kidding. Luka Berulava is the King of Emoting! Constant O-mouth! That’s why I call him Luka Artiste…ever since I laid eyes on him since the Jr G-P!

 

[Former Lurve Goddess]

Why? The discussion is about whether figure skating and Islam are compatible, and, if so, under what circumstances.

Perhaps the real question should be whether the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster and figure skating are compatible? The colanders would definitely cause havoc during spins.

 

[On My Own]

It doesn’t really matter what your outlook means. For the purposes of defining religious observance, the only thing that matters is what Islam’s outlook is. Islam has one set of rules, not eight billion of them, and one either follows them or not. I am not certain why you resist the notion that Islam is a prescriptive religion. It is. It doesn’t matter what the people you know do. It doesn’t change the rules. It’s ok not to be observant but it’s not ok to pretend that the rules of the religion are whatever you say they are. It’s not about your feelz. I mean belief is about feelz but observance isn't.

I agree with you - but I do want to point out that a lot of Muslims outside of the middle east (and I think North/East Africa?) are becoming a lot more moderate than they used to be. Not very sure if any of them would become figure skaters, but I certainly do think I know many Muslims who aren't exactly orthodox. (of course, up to debate if any of these people would be considered to be observing their religious norms with rigour - but I think this is the point you are making)

That being said... the post about polyamorous lgbtq+ muslims being observant... lol. That's nothing but cultural influence of the west on their daily lives, not really a relic of "different sects of Islam" and "different standards of observance". Even one of the most moderate Muslims I knew said straight to my face he's anti-gay, lol. I think pretending it's something about observance and an equally valid interpretation of Islam isn't doing any favours to the people who face very real problems because of its norms.

 

[briancoogaert]

This "skaters peak at 15 or 16" argument is BS. They "peak" at that age because that's the age at which they can probably do the elements that gain the most points. That's a problem with the way the sport is structured and what it rewards, not with the age limit.

So true ! And it depends on what we call "picking". Those 15 y.o. skaters can do big jumps, but Skating Skills and Interpretation are clearly not at their pick.
I mean, I prefer a more mature skater with better skating skills and interpretation. CoP is supposed to reward that also. (IMO, Lu Chen was far better in 1998 than she was in 1991 ! Same with Carolina Kostner and others). So, judges, stop overscore them in GOE and PCS and let them developp as skaters !

 

[KaoriFan]

This "skaters peak at 15 or 16" argument is BS. They "peak" at that age because that's the age at which they can probably do the elements that gain the most points. That's a problem with the way the sport is structured and what it rewards, not with the age limit.

And given how long Tara trained with Callaghan and the behavior that was described in the SafeSport decision on his case - there is no way she couldn't have seen at least some of that. Maybe she was "safe" because her mom was around and was part of her career, and/or because Callaghan was smart enough not to mess with one of his stars. But how dare she trivialize what he did to others by describing that environment as "safe"

So true ! And it depends on what we call "picking". Those 15 y.o. skaters can do big jumps, but Skating Skills and Interpretation are clearly not at their pick.
I mean, I prefer a more mature skater with better skating skills and interpretation. CoP is supposed to reward that also. (IMO, Lu Chen was far better in 1998 than she was in 1991 ! Same with Carolina Kostner and others). So, judges, stop overscore them in GOE and PCS and let them developp as skaters !

You are both so right! If any skater peaks at 15 it's because the scoring system incentivizes this. Change the incentive, change the peak.

I heard argument awhile ago, people said if there is age limit then everyone will just watch junior worlds because that's where the real champion will be. No! All training and development goes into winning Olympics. No coach or skater will burn out their body to win junior worlds. Nobody will care about those comps because everyone cares about Olympics. The skaters and teams would adjust.

 

[Former Lurve Goddess]

So any updates on Valieva's and on when the US, Japan & Canada can get their medals?

 

[Former Lurve Goddess]

Yeah, I feel like she's treated like a cross between an op-ed writer znd someone whose sulposed to give her own perspective. Toller Cranston wasn't much different: it was always about him.

But Toller's divaesque and over-the-top commentary was everything

 

[PRlady]

I agree with you - but I do want to point out that a lot of Muslims outside of the middle east (and I think North/East Africa?) are becoming a lot more moderate than they used to be. Not very sure if any of them would become figure skaters, but I certainly do think I know many Muslims who aren't exactly orthodox. (of course, up to debate if any of these people would be considered to be observing their religious norms with rigour - but I think this is the point you are making)

That being said... the post about polyamorous lgbtq+ muslims being observant... lol. That's nothing but cultural influence of the west on their daily lives, not really a relic of "different sects of Islam" and "different standards of observance". Even one of the most moderate Muslims I knew said straight to my face he's anti-gay, lol. I think pretending it's something about observance and an equally valid interpretation of Islam isn't doing any favours to the people who face very real problems because of its norms.

Almost every religion is anti-LGBTQ, formally. Grounded in patriarchy and strict rules about sex and women, the major religions impose structures against homosexual (their word) behavior that contradicts that prescription for heterosexual family life. I wouldn’t want to be a gay Muslim, Orthodox Jew, Catholic, Eastern orthodox, Baptist, Mormon, Pentecostal, Hindu or many others. Even the liberal denominations like the Anglicans are faced with schisms on the issue.

So yes Islam is anti-gay and so is everyone else.