Tornadoes

[aka_gerbil]

They showed some footage from a town near Mayfield—-Bremen?? Anyway it looked like a few places had only the foundation left without debris and debarked trees. Scary.

Breman is an hour and a half from Mayfield. I did see some footage from the Cambridge Shores subdivision on the lake in Marshall county thar fits that description.

The initial estimate based on wind speed and aerial assessment is at least EF3, but they haven’t had the ground assessment yet.

 

[TOADS]

Looking at a lot of aerial footage, one or two of the tornadoes will get the EF4 rating. I would not be surprised if one goes to an EF5. Some of the footage I saw showed the asphalt pavement having been torn away. It takes an EF5 to achieve that. Another piece of evidence is a lone heavy duty pickup in the middle of field. It was near a crater. That tells me that it was sucked up from a parking lot downwind, flew through the air, and landed, forming a crater. If the winds were lower than an EF5, the truck would have rolled and you would see the trail it would leave.

 

[TOADS]

According to what is coming over the AP and being reported on the Weather Channel, the number of missing at the candle factory has been reduced to 8 from 70.

Hallelujah!

 

[Lacey]

This may be really naive, but in another state far from this tornado, I get warnings blasting on my phone of the Severe Thunderstorm variety and things like Amber Alert--we generally do not get Tornados, but I am sure we would get warnings if one were coming. Did I sign up for this (and pay?) or does everyone with a cell phone get these warnings?

I hope I have not made anyone mad with my question, I am trying to figure out if this is a socio-economic thing, where if one did not have a cell phone, did one not get the warnings.

Another warning vehicle might be television, but few if any would have had their tvs on after midnight.

@FGRSK8 mentions this good information, does every state have these systems?

Actually this tragedy can change things. After the Greenberg tornado totaled that town and killed a lot of people, new structures require a concrete tornado room and schools had to have concrete secure storm rooms. NOAA now issues warnings over many media platforms. If new factories are required to have secure storm shelters, the warning system issued by NOAA could be hooked up to the factory’s klaxon system. A five minute warning would enable folks to scramble to shelters..

 

[aka_gerbil]

Some (all?) localities use cell phones to issue EMS alerts. It is free.

Good point about it being another socioeconomic thing. Also, some places don’t get good cell service or cell phone towers get destroyed.

Some advice I’ve seen is to have multiple ways to get emergency information… and get a weather radio (of course those aren’t free, but maybe they should be to low income households).

 

[AxelAnnie]

This may be really naive, but in another state far from this tornado, I get warnings blasting on my phone of the Severe Thunderstorm variety and things like Amber Alert--we generally do not get Tornadoes, but I am sure we would get warnings if one were coming. Did I sign up for this (and pay?) or does everyone with a cell phone get these warnings?

I hope I have not made anyone mad with my question, I am trying to figure out if this is a socio-economic thing, where if one did not have a cell phone, did one not get the warnings.

Another warning vehicle might be television, but few if any would have had their tvs on after midnight.

@FGRSK8 mentions this good information, does every state have these systems?

I have not signed up for any alerts out here Verizon/California and I get them.....not tornadoes but rain, fires, Amber Alerts, Emergency Evacuations, etc. And IMO that is how it should be.

Had alerts been issued, I suspect they would have been received and acted upon by the night workers at Amazon.

Someone up thread mentioned a socioeconomic issue. Pew reports that 97% of Americans own cell phones.

And TV ownership is 96.7%

Those kinds of numbers belie the assertion that warnings and information is only for one group of the socioeconomic strata.

And then there are the siren alerts: he Emergency Alert System (EAS) is a national warning system in the United States designed to allow authorized officials to coordinate and disseminate emergency alerts and warning messages to the public via terrestrial and satellite radio and television, including broadcast and multichannel television.

So it seems that just about everyone gets some kind of alert.

I, on the other hand, turn my phone off at night..............I may need to re-think that. You know, we are having rain...........and Californians to do not deal well with cataclysmic events like rain drops.

 

[missing]

When I've watched coverage of hurricanes, the homeowners aren't generally allowed back to their homes for days, until the area is deemed secure. But the tornado coverage I saw this evening showed people digging through the rubble of their houses for whatever they could salvage.

I was surprised to see that. I don't know if it's a difference in safety factors (tornado destroyed property being safer than hurricane destroyed property) or in how safety factors are regarded, but it did catch my attention.

 

[Vagabond]

I hope I have not made anyone mad with my question, I am trying to figure out if this is a socio-economic thing, where if one did not have a cell phone, did one not get the warnings.

I have received a very small number of warnings on my landline. I have opted out of stuff like amber alerts on my mobile phone, but I still get things such as this one:

What to Know About Wednesday's National Presidential Alert

No, was not a personal text from President Trump

time.com

Also, I live close to one of my city's outdoor public warning system speakers.

 

[once_upon]

I turned off my alerts after getting amber alerts at 2 or 3 am for locations 2 or 3 hours away, many times.

I do live within tornado siren locations within 5 miles to the east and to the west of me. I live within a couple blocks of state border. Each state seems to think they need one just on the side of the border.

 

[LeafOnTheWind]

When I've watched coverage of hurricanes, the homeowners aren't generally allowed back to their homes for days, until the area is deemed secure. But the tornado coverage I saw this evening showed people digging through the rubble of their houses for whatever they could salvage.

I was surprised to see that. I don't know if it's a difference in safety factors (tornado destroyed property being safer than hurricane destroyed property) or in how safety factors are regarded, but it did catch my attention.

It depends on how fast first responders can come in and clear the area. In my area the electric company had to check for live wires and the firefighters were checking for gas leaks. They were walking house to house minutes after the storm passed. They cleared me on day 1 but told my neighbor she had to evacuate. I never had to leave my house but had to make sure I had proof of address to get back home if I went out. We had police road blocks for awhile to keep looting in check but it wasn't really that effective. People walk in instead of driving in and steal what they can carry.

 

[MacMadame]

A lot of places don't let their employees have their cell phones on the job.

I have signed up for alerts that come from the city and county. I do get more texts than I want about missing kids and elders but nothing that wakes me up at night. Hopefully, I will get a text if something bad is coming my way such as fire.

 

[aka_gerbil]

Looking at a lot of aerial footage, one or two of the tornadoes will get the EF4 rating. I would not be surprised if one goes to an EF5. Some of the footage I saw showed the asphalt pavement having been torn away. It takes an EF5 to achieve that. Another piece of evidence is a lone heavy duty pickup in the middle of field. It was near a crater. That tells me that it was sucked up from a parking lot downwind, flew through the air, and landed, forming a crater. If the winds were lower than an EF5, the truck would have rolled and you would see the trail it would leave.

The water tower, which had a 500K gallon capacity was destroyed. It’s crumpled up like it was a piece of tin foil. The concrete footers were also pulled out of the ground. That seems like it would take a lot.

As bad as Mayfield is, some are saying it looks worse in Dawson Springs and Breman, respectively an hour and 10 minutes and an hour and a half from Mayfield.

 

[TOADS]

The water tower, which had a 500K gallon capacity was destroyed. It’s crumpled up like it was a piece of tin foil. The concrete footers were also pulled out of the ground. That seems like it would take a lot.

As bad as Mayfield is, some are saying it looks worse in Dawson Springs and Breman, respectively an hour and 10 minutes and an hour and a half from Mayfield.

I have a strong suspicion that after the engineers and forensic meteorologists have done their survey. They are going to find that the winds to create this severe damage is going to be mind boggling. The highest speed ever recorded in a tornado which was done with a Doppler radar is 302 mph in 1999 in OK.

 

[Aceon6]

In watching the ABC coverage last night, I learned that ALL of the Amazon warehouse people who were in the building at the time of the alert had been moved to the safe rooms. The unfortunate ones were a few drivers and some loaders who had the extreme bad luck of being on/near the loading docks when it hit.

 

[aka_gerbil]

I have a strong suspicion that after the engineers and forensic meteorologists have done their survey. They are going to find that the winds to create this severe damage is going to be mind boggling. The highest speed ever recorded in a tornado which was done with a Doppler radar is 302 mph in 1999 in OK.

NWS Paducah said the engineers/experts are doing the ground survey today (or starting on it since there’s a lot of ground to cover).

 

[Lacey]

The damage in several towns in several states is overwhelming, I cannot imagine the loss.

I apologize if I am overwhelmed with warnings, it is part of my protection process. It seems one doesn't have to subscribe to cell phone emergency notifications, they just come, glad of that. Interesting some workplaces do not permit cell phones.

Someone herein posted that he/she turns off his/her cell phone at night...so might not hear warnings? Easy for me to say, but if I lived in a state that had weather emergencies, perhaps like California, I think I would leave it on all the time. We have a Weather Radio, in a drawer, somewhere, will get it batteries and put it on a counter somewhere.

Some here are fortunate to live near outdoor sirens specifically set up for emergencies. I don't think we have them, but I probably would hear the fire co's sirens about 5 miles away in two directions.

I posted in another thread that my youngest DD, who is married, has 2 year old and is pregnant, lives in Nashville about 10 minutes from US Nats Bridgestone Arena. A tornado did blow through right next to her neighborhood on 3/3/20, very scary stuff, lots of damage, fortunately not to their house.

With this storm, they were also cautioned through their blasting cell phones. Fortunately, they have a basement, in fact not many houses there do. She said she and baby were down in basement within 30 seconds, her DH was slower. (So, for her, the storm was better at night--what if she had been at work and the baby at daycare, would baby have been rescued?) Their best friends, who live about 1/4 mile away and do not have a basement, called and asked to come over with their child, there were supposedly 15 minutes before expected landfall. Not sure about that...Hope I didn't worry my kids by asking about a way out of the basement if a storm ever did hit them, but want them to plan. This particular storm two nights ago veered off before it got to them.

 

[skatingguy]

This is bleak.

https://twitter.com/DavidBegnaud/status/1470074524242694144?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1470074524242694144%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url

 

[Judy]

Tornado watch briefly issued after waterspout sighted near Vancouver airport

I have never heard of tornadoes happening anywhere near British Columbia. So this info was shocking. But then lots of shocking things have happened this year in British Columbia.

We had an unprecedented heatwave this summer which resulted in the death of over 600 people. Some reports say that this unprecedented heat played a part in the entire town of Lillooet burning to the ground.

Then this last month floods throughout the province ripped apart Highways 1 and 5, the major east/west highway connected Vancouver to the rest of Canada. These same floods resulted in the flooding of large parts of Abbotsford (population 180,000), mainly in farmalnd where over 640,000 farm animals died.

A tornade, unprecedented heatweave, entire towns burning to the ground and floods that separate Vancouver from the rest of Canada is a lot to endure for one year.

In Ottawa we get warnings ... and they don't happen until a series of 6 tornados hit.



I had heard the emergency alert on the radio and checked the weather ... decided that I'd just keep an eye out on the weather. Cleared up later, I went to bed and then heard what happened the next morning. I live In the east end which wasn't hit at all but .. so much damage in the west end, Gatineau ... and the worst was Dunrobin not far from Ottawa. Thankfully nobody was killed but I get very nervous now when I see the "possible" tornado warnings.

 

[aka_gerbil]

Here in California, I keep my phone on do not disturb and don’t think anything of it. When I’ve been in Kentucky and storms predicted, phone was on.

My parents have the weather radio that’s impossible to ignore.

 

[missing]

Workers at the Kentucky candle factory say they were told if they left to go home before the tornado struck, they would be fired.

MAYFIELD, Ky. — As a catastrophic tornado approached this city Friday, employees of a candle factory — which would later be destroyed — heard the warning sirens and wanted to leave the building. But at least five workers said supervisors warned employees that they would be fired if they left their shifts early.

For hours, as word of the coming storm spread, as many as 15 workers beseeched managers to let them take shelter at their own homes, only to have their requests rebuffed, the workers said.

 

[aka_gerbil]

If that’s the case…. Anytime up until the tornado crosses the river, it would have been safe to get home.

 

[Cachoo]

Workers at the Kentucky candle factory say they were told if they left to go home before the tornado struck, they would be fired.

MAYFIELD, Ky. — As a catastrophic tornado approached this city Friday, employees of a candle factory — which would later be destroyed — heard the warning sirens and wanted to leave the building. But at least five workers said supervisors warned employees that they would be fired if they left their shifts early.

For hours, as word of the coming storm spread, as many as 15 workers beseeched managers to let them take shelter at their own homes, only to have their requests rebuffed, the workers said.

I think I'd pull out my phone, record the threat and leave. I'm not their responsibility if I choose the leave the site. And how can they think they have dominion over me in an emergency? Silly rabbits.

 

[missing]

I think I'd pull out my phone, record the threat and leave. I'm not their responsibility if I choose the leave the site. And how can they think they have dominion over me in an emergency? Silly rabbits.

A lot of people who work jobs at places like candle factories can't risk getting fired. They need their salaries to pay for rent and food and day care for their children, to pay off charge card bills and child support. They don't have the resources or the luxury to think of their employers as "silly rabbits." All they have is fear and anger.

 

[Vagabond]

I suspect that requiring workers to stay in an area where there is a tornado warning violates all sorts of health and safety laws and could give rise to a claim for wrongful termination or even wrongful death. But who would want to put that to the test?

 

[aka_gerbil]

I suspect that requiring workers to stay in an area where there is a tornado warning violates all sorts of health and safety laws and could give rise to a claim for wrongful termination or even wrongful death. But who would want to put that to the test?

Once a tornado warning is issued, it’s drilled into us from early childhood you don’t leave and try to drive or travel somewhere else. Heck, we’re taught if you’re driving and a tornado warning comes, try to stop and get into a safe location right now. You’re better off lying down in a ditch in an active tornado then to be in a vehicle.It’s not at all like a hurricane warning where people do have time to go.

Although there was a watch and severe weather predicted, the first warning on the storm was issued at 7 pm and that was out of NWS Memphis for Northwest Arkansas. I don’t know how many times in my life I’ve seen storms that were tornadoes in northwest Arkansas or southeast Missouri be regular thunderstorms by the time they get to us after crossing the river. If the area called off work and school every time there was a watch, we’d get nothing done for a lot of the year. We rarely even have a basic thunderstorm in December … much less a tornado warning …. Much less what happened.

Wanting to leave once a warning had been issued is a stupid idea, but it shouldn’t be a fireable one. For me…. Given how these things have pretty much played out my entire life with storms in the area…. Was it it was it not a reasonable expectation that this storm would behave like storms usually do. We have never had a tornado like this before. When tornados do happen, they’re EF0 or EF1 and only last a few miles.

At one point, this thing was tracking directly west towards my family’s farm. If the tornado had continued straight west instead of turning, it would have missed the factory by about 20 miles. The tornado was reported in Cayce at 9:01 central and that’s when it was tracking west. The factory was hit at 9:27. Less than 30 monies before, that thing was tracking very differently. I would have at that point thought southern Graves County was doomed and not Mayfield.

I’m hindsight, canceling that shift looks to be what should have happened… but they didn’t have hindsight at the time other than the past history of how storms have behaved in the area in the past.

 

[TOADS]

There will be a lot of Monday morning quarterbacking on this tornado. I think when they finally determine what the strength of this tornado was, there will be more investigations into the judgement calls for the employees of both factories.

From what I have read, apparently there were shelter areas at the Amazon facility and the casualties were among those on loading docks and did not have time to make it to a shelter.

As far as the candle factory, Ive seen stories that say there were shelter areas and there weren’t shelter areas. If there was, it most likely that it was built to withstand up to an EF2 or EF3. It would not stand a chance against an EF4 or EF5. This can be seen in some of the storm damage that shows broken concrete wall with bent rebar steel showing.

In any case, I expect to see big changes made to building codes, much like what happened in Florida following Hurricane Andrew.

 

[Cachoo]

A lot of people who work jobs at places like candle factories can't risk getting fired. They need their salaries to pay for rent and food and day care for their children, to pay off charge card bills and child support. They don't have the resources or the luxury to think of their employers as "silly rabbits." All they have is fear and anger.

I'm a 211 operator....I talk to folks like this and in much worse situations every working day. And yeah....I think the employers are silly rabbits if they try to make life and death decisions for people in these situations. But thanks for the lecture.

 

[Aceon6]

I guess I have been extremely fortunate to work for companies that had multiple, well built storm facilities that were large enough to handle everyone. Would they have held for an EF5? Not sure, but I always felt quite safe as the shelters were below grade.

 

[Cachoo]

I guess I have been extremely fortunate to work for companies that had multiple, well built storm facilities that were large enough to handle everyone. Would they have held for an EF5? Not sure, but I always felt quite safe as the shelters were below grade.

I experienced so many more tornado watches and warnings in my younger years. Now I think of the southern states as tornado alley. But do people have safe rooms, strong shelters, basements etc....

 

[Aceon6]

But do people have safe rooms, strong shelters, basements etc...

My grad school roommate insisted on a basement room when they built their house in a upscale subdivision in Tulsa. The builder and most of her neighbors thought she was nuts. No one thought she was nuts after 3 EF3s hit in April 1981.