Alysa Liu Switches to Colorado Coaching Team

Evan has quite a wry sense of humor but he's not extroverted so maybe not a good fit for a public-facing role, but I'm not sure that Nathan is much different.

Honestly if you look at what drives the general public, it's conflict, scandal and gossip (think Real Wives, Kardashians, etc., which sadly appears to be the preferred pablum of the masses). Hence the intrigue following Tonya's assault on Nancy. So absent some kind of breakout story, I think skating in the U.S. is going to continue to limp along at best in the eyes of the general public.
 
Nathan seems personable and relatable in comparison to Evan Lysacek. I think some found him attractive but his personality and way of speaking was not made for the camera.

But I rewatched 2004 Nationals Ladies LP recently and I had forgotten the superstardom that was Kwan. That arena was packed to the gills and the crowd screamed for her in way that I hadn’t seen before or since. I think at the time, we were so spoiled with personalities they we thought the US would be churning media-friendly champions forever, but it turned out that Kwan really was the last superstar we’ve had since her time. I think I didn’t quite grasp how rare that was until recently.
 
antmanb said:
I don't follow the skaters much off ice but is Nathan that much more interesting? :shuffle:

I'm guessing if Nathan wins, then he'll be back to Yale and continue overachieving in another field. Like I said i don't follow much about the skaters other than what you hear during a broadcast but is there any likelihood that Nathan will go into coaching/choreography after he stops competing?


I agree it is definitely a story...but is it a long lasting one that would result in better sponsors/more money being pumped into Figure Skating in the US? I'm not convinced it would be.
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In terms of future pursuits, Nathan's statistics and data science background may see him following in the footsteps of his older sister who is a C-level officer at Mammoth Bioscience. At one time, I think he mentioned medicine, but I don't see him as a physician, unless he pursues the MD/PhD route. As much as we might want him skating forever, it's not in his long-term plan.
 
I feel Nathan's long term impact will be more apparent within the future generations of US skaters. Particularly among the Asian American boys whose parents enrolled them in LTS classes in hopes of their becoming the next Nathan Chen.
 
sheetz said:
I feel Nathan's long term impact will be more apparent within the future generations of US skaters. Particularly among the Asian American boys whose parents enrolled them in LTS classes in hopes of their becoming the next Nathan Chen.
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I always thought the huge proportion of Asian-American skaters who made the 2018 team was the work of the likes of Kristi Yamaguchi (who listed Tiffany Chin as an inspiration) and Michelle Kwan who really opened a lot of Asian parents' eyes about the sport and ended up signing up their kids in skating. It was also clear when almost all of them throughout the different disciplines listed Michelle Kwan as their idol/inspiration.
 
BittyBug said:
Evan has quite a wry sense of humor but he's not extroverted so maybe not a good fit for a public-facing role, but I'm not sure that Nathan is much different.

Honestly if you look at what drives the general public, it's conflict, scandal and gossip (think Real Wives, Kardashians, etc., which sadly appears to be the preferred pablum of the masses). Hence the intrigue following Tonya's assault on Nancy. So absent some kind of breakout story, I think skating in the U.S. is going to continue to limp along at best in the eyes of the general public.
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Sadly, you're probably right. The only time when people were more interested in Lysacek was when they'd bring him up with Weir, their profiles and interviews together were often aimed at "conflict" and that was the main interest.

The scandal of Kerrigan/Harding did bring figure skating to my attention though, because suddenly figure skating was on the news in the Netherlands. Before I had seen some show skating on German channels while zapping, but that didn't really get me into skating as it was like watching a fun circus show (we had German channels, BBC, French Swiss channels, a Turkish channel, an Arabic channel, a Belgian channel, if I remember correctly also an Italian channel, all for free and part of normal tv without needing extra subscriptions!). What I saw during the extra skating broadcasts which that scandal gave us, was so beautiful, that the next day spirals and jumps especially kept coming back in my mind, even while I was doing homework or chores. I was 16 and became a life long fan.

I delved into skating history immediately with the very little material there was (in a sports library in The Hague which doesn't excist anymore in it's current form). I was pleasantly shocked to find we had had an Olympic champion already and a European medalist and a European and World champion and an Olympic silver medalist. A decades old skating history book from a very small obscure sports library I had to travel for an hour to with public transport, taught me this. Why wasn't this normal knowledge like our speed skating champions and football heroes (or soccer if your prefer that term). This is why I appreciate Skate Guard blogs so much, suddenly so much history available from different countries even! I'm grateful for that blog and all the work and efforts that the creator has put into it!

It's a pity that for the overall public the amazing jumps and spins and other elements, the artistry just aren't enough. I'd say: this sport is everything, what more do you want? But unfortunately, it will be something less remarkable than what skaters bring on the ice that will bring back the attention: the ridicilous and terrible scandals.

I'm hoping Liu will prove this wrong, I hope she will become the next icon this sport needs and bring skating back as a much watched sport. I also want a new European icon (other than the Russians, whom I greatly admire) and please another Dutch champion.

I really love the SP and FS of Liu this year! I start smiling because of her joy while performing. I hope the coaching change won't ruin that in the programs.
 
rhapsody said:
It's uncomfortable to see a weight loss program being promoted to a demographic of athletes who are constantly weight-shamed and very often develop eating disorders.
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Noom is a great program for the average person (I’ve been a member fir a while) but I wouldn’t recommend it fir an athletes. Athletes have upgraded nutritional needs that are not addressed by Noom.
 
I also used Noom and I think that if someone who shouldn't be dieting plugged in their actual numbers, Noom's system would catch it. It is very focused on quality of calories, too.
 
VGThuy said:
Nathan seems personable and relatable in comparison to Evan Lysacek. I think some found him attractive but his personality and way of speaking was not made for the camera.

But I rewatched 2004 Nationals Ladies LP recently and I had forgotten the superstardom that was Kwan. That arena was packed to the gills and the crowd screamed for her in way that I hadn’t seen before or since. I think at the time, we were so spoiled with personalities they we thought the US would be churning media-friendly champions forever, but it turned out that Kwan really was the last superstar we’ve had since her time. I think I didn’t quite grasp how rare that was until recently.
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Kwan also had a MAJOR fan base, that love or not love them, was out in full force during those Nationals and even attracted media attention. We've never had anything like that since.
 
To the general public in the U.S. figure skating is a woman’s sport. The men, pairs, and dance will never get the same attention as a female singles Olympian. It is amazing that the U.S. has been so competitive in men and dance this past decade given the low participation of men in these disciplines.
 
Yazmeen said:
Kwan also had a MAJOR fan base, that love or not love them, was out in full force during those Nationals and even attracted media attention. We've never had anything like that since.
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Yeah. I remember when she came over to speak at a fan area at Minneapolis Worlds, there was a cordon of police around her as people tried to push in to touch her. Some folks are just nuts.

It turned out that she was staying in the same hotel as I was (not the event hotel) and I rode in the elevator once with Kwan and her dad. I just smiled at her and said good luck when we were leaving.
 
sheetz said:
Nathan really skews the numbers for US men, though. Without him I'd argue the US ladies have been more successful than the men over the last 10 years.
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Hmm...I think from 2011-2017 things were more-or-less equal, but the Men just got better in the past four-five seasons while the women were taken by surprise with the normalization of quads with the Eteri skaters and the 3A attempts from multiple women and their consistency. The ladies field was kind of sad in the Fall of 2010 to Fall of 2012 to be quite honest, and the US ladies failed to medal in those fields said a lot. And I loved Kostner's 2012 World title winning skate and it was the era of Akiko Suzuki :swoon: , but let's be honest about the tech content being put out. 2013 Worlds had Yuna Kim pretty much save the event for the ladies.

With the men, we have a world medalist and an Olympic medal contender, a 3-time and reigning World champion, and a consistently top 10 (possibly top 6) competitor who has the highest GOE and PCS in the field as favorites to make the Olympic team. With the ladies, it's not quite the same thing. Most fans' best hope with the ladies is that they rank as high as most expect the third man to rank among the Men and we are all just hoping they can skate their 6-7 triple programs cleanly. However, men is much more volatile as we saw with 2021 Worlds SP.
 
sheetz said:
I think with Ashley and Gracie the US ladies were much more competitive than the men during this period until Nathan came along.
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It depended. Just like Nathan skewing the results, Ashley/Gracie (for about four-five seasons) skewed the results too. I'm just gonna go by Worlds unless otherwise indicated:

In 2011, the men placed in the low top ten or past ten in the upper teens. For ladies, outside of Czisny's 5th place finish, Rachel Flatt (who was injured) placed 12th.

In 2012, Jeremy Abbott placed 8th while Adam placed 13th. Ashley got a great 4th place finish, but Czisny....I'd also argue look at the level of competition the men had v. the women.

In 2013, Max Aaron placed close to where Ashley and Gracie did.

In 2014, at the Olympics, the ladies were better. 4, 7, and 9th vs. 9th and 12th. At Worlds, Abbott matched Gold's placement at Worlds and Max Aaron placed 8th. Ashley placed 7th and Polina placed 8th.

In 2015, Gold was 4th and Wagner 5th and Polina 8th at Worlds (Polina did win 4CC). The men weren't so far behind with Jason in 4th, Adam in 8th, and Farris in 11th. I wouldn't say the ladies totally blew the men away here.

In 2016, Ashley got the silver while Gold was first in the SP but missed out on a medal in the LP to place 4th. The men weren't close to medaling, so clearly the ladies were stronger BUT Adam placed 6th (not too far off from Gracie's 4th), Max was 8th and Grant was 10th. Mirai, in comparison, was 10th.

At 2017 Worlds, the men placed 6th and 7th compared to the ladies who placed, 4th, 7th, and 12th.

At the 2018 Olympics, the men placed 5th, 6th, and 10th. The Ladies placed, 9th, 10th, and 11th. At Worlds, Nathan won, Vincent went from 3rd in the SP to bombing the LP to place 14th while Max Aaron placed 11th. The ladies placed 6th, 10th, and 12th. I guess at this Worlds you can say Nathan skewed the results, but hey Vincent could have medaled as he would at...

The 2019 Worlds while Nathan won and Jason placed 9th. Ladies were 7th and 9th.

ETA: For Four Continents, from 2011-2020, both ladies and men had 7 medalists from 2011 to 2020. Two champions in ladies, Ashley (2012) and Polina (2015) and one champion in Men: Nathan Chen (2017) (Adam did win in 2010). Two silver medalists in Men: Joshua Farris (2015) and Jason Brown (2020) and one silver medalist in Ladies: Mirai Nagasu in 2016. And four bronze medalists Mirai Nagasu (2011), Caroline Zhang (2012), Mirai Nagasu (2017), and Bradie Tennell (2020) while the men also had four bronze medalists: Jeremy Abbott (2011), Ross Miner (2012), Jason Brown (2018), and Vincent Zhou (2019). Six different men won seven medals while five different women won seven medals in that ten season period.

So from 2012-2016, Ashley "skewed the results" with Gracie helping around 2013-2016. Even with their skewing, they weren't that far head of the men most of the time except at the 2014 Olympics and 2016 Worlds and even then, the men had more variety of competitors where the ladies were carried by Ashley/Gracie, just like you're saying Nathan is carrying the men now.

I'd argue now, the men are stronger because outside of Nathan, we have two competitors who are favorites to make the Olympic team who have either a shot at a medal or can place comfortably in the top ten.
 
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VGThuy said:
I'd argue now, the men are stronger because outside of Nathan, we have two competitors who are favorites to make the Olympic team who have either a shot at a medal or can place comfortably in the top ten.
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Although none of this has changed my opinion I appreciate your typing this all out!

As far as the current state of men, I'd agree that at the very top it's the strongest it's been in a long time. However below that it's the weakest I can remember. For most of the past decade we had a solid group of men who could place in the top 10 at Worlds, even if they weren't medal contenders. But not now. I truly hope that Ilia can become a major international contender because if he doesn't I foresee US men slipping below US pairs in relevance.
 
sheetz said:
Although none of this has changed my opinion I appreciate your typing this all out!

As far as the current state of men, I'd agree that at the very top it's the strongest it's been in a long time. However below that it's the weakest I can remember. For most of the past decade we had solid men who could place in the top 10 at Worlds, even if they weren't medal contenders. But not now. I truly hope that Ilia can become a major international contender because if he doesn't I foresee US men slipping below US pairs in relevance.
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Is it bad in the junior and novice ranks in the U.S. men right now? Like, will there be someone who can rise up once they become age-eligible before the 2026 Olympics?
 
VGThuy said:
Is it bad in the junior and novice ranks in the U.S. men right now? Like, will there be someone who can rise up once they become age-eligible before the 2026 Olympics?
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After Ilia the highest scoring US man on the JGP was Will Annis, who turns 17 in January. He's talented but still rough around the edges. At this point I'd put him behind Maxim Naumov.
 
sheetz said:
After Ilia the highest scoring US man on the JGP was Will Annis, who turns 17 in January. He's talented but still rough around the edges. At this point I'd put him behind Maxim Naumov.
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I really like Lucas Broussard, only 15 and seems like he has promise.

Also... Tomoki is only 21... is he staying for the next cycle?
 
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