Bigbird
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 3,035
Why do we keep on forgetting that the real victim here was a 16 -17 year old girl?
The Dance Hall 9: Bring the Bling or No Beijing 2021-2022
- Thread starter Dobre
- Start date
- Status
Bigbird
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 3,035
Go speak with Marina Zueva. Ask her why she gave him a book hoping to address his anger management issues. Also ask yourself why they left their rink in Detroit so unceremoniously. Vika admitted that there was no hitting at the time but there was a blowout. But as I said it is what it is.
muffinplus
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 4,321
What are "many sources" other than twitter posts...
muffinplus
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 4,321
Won't be? Yay!
VGThuy
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 41,023
I do think some of the things are pretty established.
Not sure about grooming but Morosov did enter into a relationship with an underaged student as his MO. I won’t give too much blame to Nikita’s lack of advocacy because he was young too and conditioned to think that sort of relationship could be “normal”.
His and Morosov’s behavior towards Elena at 2014 Worlds was bad though but not to the level of criminal. Just really jerky behavior but I get if people can’t cheer for him because of that. I will say it seems Elena is over it and has moved on and cheers for him.
Regarding the Vika in Canton situation. I’m just going to say it. A lot of fans on Twitter were getting info from those who were there and chasing fans, like Tim Koleto, according to a poster who used to post here a lot and who everyone knows has at least a professional connection to the skating world. I don’t know how he would know since I think he was training at Novi at the time, but maybe his friends at Canton were talking about it and the police being called, etc.
The thing is…I agree that we should believe victims in these situations or take their allegations seriously, but in these cases the victims aren’t the ones who have come out saying these things. That makes it more complicated. It’s true there are usually reasons why victims don’t come out and it’s also true that many victims who press charges later recant or won’t “cooperate” with law enforcement after making the initial call for help for a myriad of complicated reasons related to the cycle of abuse. But here we don’t know what the victim themselves had to say. We just know what supposed actual observers at Canton have to say about it and we know established “facts”, but that thread is also full of editorializing and assumptions that aren’t necessarily backed up by evidence.
As for Vika’s disordered eating, she does pretty much describe it in her interview with fsgossip, but I don’t see how that’s Nikita’s fault as it’s a huge pervasive issue in figure skating and especially ice dance under Igor and Marina.
That thread also brings up another topic…in what way are P/C “problematic”? I’m so sick of that word and it’s overuse and the way these young people weaponize that and the word “toxic” and use abuse to further their own fandom.
Not sure about grooming but Morosov did enter into a relationship with an underaged student as his MO. I won’t give too much blame to Nikita’s lack of advocacy because he was young too and conditioned to think that sort of relationship could be “normal”.
His and Morosov’s behavior towards Elena at 2014 Worlds was bad though but not to the level of criminal. Just really jerky behavior but I get if people can’t cheer for him because of that. I will say it seems Elena is over it and has moved on and cheers for him.
Regarding the Vika in Canton situation. I’m just going to say it. A lot of fans on Twitter were getting info from those who were there and chasing fans, like Tim Koleto, according to a poster who used to post here a lot and who everyone knows has at least a professional connection to the skating world. I don’t know how he would know since I think he was training at Novi at the time, but maybe his friends at Canton were talking about it and the police being called, etc.
The thing is…I agree that we should believe victims in these situations or take their allegations seriously, but in these cases the victims aren’t the ones who have come out saying these things. That makes it more complicated. It’s true there are usually reasons why victims don’t come out and it’s also true that many victims who press charges later recant or won’t “cooperate” with law enforcement after making the initial call for help for a myriad of complicated reasons related to the cycle of abuse. But here we don’t know what the victim themselves had to say. We just know what supposed actual observers at Canton have to say about it and we know established “facts”, but that thread is also full of editorializing and assumptions that aren’t necessarily backed up by evidence.
As for Vika’s disordered eating, she does pretty much describe it in her interview with fsgossip, but I don’t see how that’s Nikita’s fault as it’s a huge pervasive issue in figure skating and especially ice dance under Igor and Marina.
That thread also brings up another topic…in what way are P/C “problematic”? I’m so sick of that word and it’s overuse and the way these young people weaponize that and the word “toxic” and use abuse to further their own fandom.
Last edited:
muffinplus
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 4,321
I'm going to guess skating twitter considers them "abuse supporters" or something? ...I am not even sure due to what.
Should SinKats withdraw from the GPF? Yikes their programs look rough with Nikita's back injury. The lifts are certainly a struggle. Getting a 124 with an Eastern Euro-heavy panel/caller. Would've been around 121 with normal judging.
S&K could finish 5th in GPF behind all 3 North America teams with performance like this. I wonder if it makes more sense to withdraw. Rest up, and then battle with P&C at Europeans in Estonia.
S&K could finish 5th in GPF behind all 3 North America teams with performance like this. I wonder if it makes more sense to withdraw. Rest up, and then battle with P&C at Europeans in Estonia.
Khaleesi
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 116
What are you talking about? Who’s forgetting that the real victim is a 16-17 girl? No one out here is trying to make Nikita a victim of anything. Yet my original point still stands; why should Morozov’s transgressions or Marina apparently starving Viktoria fall on Nikita’s shoulders? Look, I’m not a even a S/K fan nor am I well versed in Russian ice dance drama for that matter so I would think it’s ok to want all the facts before blindly believing what one random figure skating fan decides to spew on Twitter.
Gris
不做奴才做公民
- Messages
- 1,705
Judging from their post-skate interview I don't think they plan to withdraw.
I think they are referring to their close friendship with Vanessa James, them allegedly attracting COVID at a house party when there weren't supposed to be house parties, and some stuff Cizeron shared about being anti vaccine passports.
(But I'm sure there's more, there's always more with fs Twitter).
Rafter
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 11,696
I just watched S/Ks FD. It looks like they are trying to outdo the P&C style. And it is….not a good comparison.
If S/K and P/C skate back to back at the Olys you would have to think that P/C should be marked way ahead. S/K look sloppy and unrefined.
If S/K and P/C skate back to back at the Olys you would have to think that P/C should be marked way ahead. S/K look sloppy and unrefined.
Gris
不做奴才做公民
- Messages
- 1,705
This is OT but nowadays the word "problematic" is used in a way to encompass "everything I don't like". Being an abuser = problematic. Liking a stupid comment on Twitter = problematic. It actually trivializes the "problem" itself.
litenkyckling
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 797
I think they'd be wise to - any more mistakes made (probably due to him not being fully recovered) will really impact their momentum
Bigbird
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 3,035
Time will make things clear to Zhulin.
Bigbird
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 3,035
Gotcha...just seems random though, why rehash it now? He can be a jerk. Zhulin has more or less said it many times. It's an open secret, not so?
litenkyckling
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 797
I don't use twitter for fs relating information so I don't see the fs twitter drama, but I think it's odd the way that people on here call them out for questioning abuse and behaviour that is not considered acceptable in everyday life. Calling someone "woke" because you don't like that they are pointing out this behaviour is a strange choice. We are living in a time when - finally and thankfully - we are more able to point out abuses of power in skating and have it taken more seriously (kind of). A reckoning is coming to this sport - just look at gymnastics and the world of entertainment. I actually think good on these people for choosing to take these issues into account when they are discussing skaters - especially when many skaters in this sport are majorly idolised.
muffinplus
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 4,321
"Questioning and pointing out abuse" - I mean... never mind that some the things they want to blame on Nikita is not abuse (i.e eating disorder.).. and never mind that they did not present anything factual in this post to support their abuse claims (other than reposting Canton rumor)..
You completely misunderstood my point. Plus, not knowing fs Twitter is what makes you think what they are interested in doing is calling out abusive behaviors, that's as far of the case as can be. If that person on Twitter was simply presenting the rumors as they are and sharing what is known like people in this thread have done it would have been a valid and important discussion, but instead, it was the sensationalized and editorialized version of what supposedly happened, including a lot of assumptions and interpretations, ironically while also stating "not wanting to make assumptions".
The skaters who are idolized are never the real target of these threads, it's always skaters who are "controversial" figures. The same people have deemed every skater who is conceived as a threat to Hanyu as problematic (Chen is homophobic, Uno is misogynist, Zhou is transphobic and racist, watch them go for Yuma in the next few weeks). There are certain skaters that fs Twitter marked and they are like a dog with a bone about them, and the reason I used "woke" is that they are pretending their views are because of woke opinions and not just skating bias and favoritism.
I think the rumors about Nikita are worrying but at the same time reading that thread you would come out of it thinking that it is a fact that he is a serial abuser who's been abusive for almost a decade. And as others mentioned, none of what is supposedly known ever came from people that are actually related to the matter so it makes it a lot more difficult to have a proper discussion about it.
VGThuy
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 41,023
Not to mention so much of “woke” Twitter seems to be about building up their own brands on tumblr or whatnot and holding themselves out to be authority figures in charge of a group of people who go out and bully others. There’s probably a psychological reason they are substituting their online experience as Queen Bees for their real life personas but that’s another topic.
The issue with the above is when it becomes more about the messenger than the victims. How many times has skating Twitter Mob turned on actual victims they “supported” for making a “mistake” or for not behaving in a way that is perfect and acceptable to the standards of that mob…standards they themselves fail to live up to in real life I bet.
The issue with the above is when it becomes more about the messenger than the victims. How many times has skating Twitter Mob turned on actual victims they “supported” for making a “mistake” or for not behaving in a way that is perfect and acceptable to the standards of that mob…standards they themselves fail to live up to in real life I bet.
muffinplus
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 4,321
It sounds so f...d up.
litenkyckling
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 797
maybe they're just from a different generation than you and won't stand for awful behaviour? It's incredibly cynical to assume this is about them "being haters" when we're talking about a sport that in the grand scheme of things is inconsequential.
I'm from the same generation and believe when I say that it is very apparent when someone is fighting for a cause and when someone is either trying to create a certain brand for themselves and/or build up their favorites by deeming others problematic. As @VGThuy wrote, they are making it more about the messenger than the victim every time.
GreenGan
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 201
You see, this is some passive and agressive shit that doesn't help your arguments. Just because people that reacts to your post are not in agreement with you doesn't mean 1) that they are older than the twitter poster (or you if I interpret things correctly) 2) that they don't stand against awful behaviour.
Is it that hard to understand that a lot of person are suspicious about Nikita but are also worried that all we know so far about this is hearsays ? Without hearing the victims about it ? To dislike how this thread is making assumption on assumption and taking the moral ground without any solid basis ?
(Edited : suspicion => suspicious and adding "without hearing the victims.." part)
VGThuy
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 41,023
Believe me, I work with actual activists in all walks of life. I attend numerous retreats and conferences with group leaders and members who putting themselves on the line to fight for various issues. I do so to provide legal support and assistance. There’s a difference in what skating Twitter for the most part are doing. I used to be in for it until I saw how egotistical many of them were, how they can’t take criticism, how there’s a huge lack of self-awareness about their own toxic behavior, how they spread misinformation without being more conscientious of the truth, and how they really do select and choose certain skaters that so happen to be rivals of their faves or the federation of their faves. If you’ve paid close attention for the past 4-6 years like I’ve had and had actual contact with some of those people, you’d realize they shouldn’t be the ones voicing any movement because they have real issues of their own they need to deal with and they need to way more life experience to humble them somewhat. They also have no qualms in attacking skaters, including victims.
TL;DR: they’ve co-opted serious issues and further social justice movements to further their own STAN WAR behavior.
litenkyckling
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 797
what do you mean "build a brand" it's twitter? I think perhaps this may be a case of users on here blowing the whole thing out of proportion.
litenkyckling
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 797
how is this passive aggressive? I'm not even making arguments, just saying that making assumptions about people who are simply trying to highlight abuse in this sport takes isn't fair when chances are, they want to make this sport a healthier place for athletes to be.
I too work in activist spaces and ultimately I think people just want to see real change and people held to account. I honestly could not care less who these tweets are about.
It means some of them aspire to be some types of skating influencers and enjoy the traffic they generate. Some also have skating podcasts or YouTube channels they promote. It's honestly not that complicated.
litenkyckling
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 797
ok
Going back to discuss ice dance, I was really impressed with how Hawayek/Baker looked this weekend, it was a good reminder of their best qualities - speed, deep edges, ice coverage, and beautiful interpretation. While I do think Green/Parsons have shown a lot of improvement and have good material this season, H/B remain the superior team, and them looking this polished in their season debut after losing so much training time is a testament to why they deserve that 3rd Olympic spot.
Last edited:
- Status
