The Dance Hall 9: Bring the Bling or No Beijing 2021-2022

[muffinplus]

Going back to discuss ice dance, I was really impressed with how Hawayek/Baker looked this weekend, it was a good reminder of their best qualities - speed, deep edges, ice coverage, and beautiful interpretation. While I do think Green/Parsons have shown a lot of improvement and have good material this season, H/B remain the superior teams, and them looking this polished in their season debut after losing so much training time is a testament to why they deserve that 3rd Olympic spot.

They looked really good in the FD but I remain pessimistic about their scoring potential. I think G/P have a Much better RD

 

[angi]

They looked really good in the FD but I remain pessimistic about their scoring potential. I think G/P have a Much better RD

I think H/B have a good RD but it was tentative and muted here and understandably so. If performed to its full potential I can see it being a successful program. I do agree the FD is better, they really sold it today.

 

[PRlady]

I think H/B have a good RD but it was tentative and muted here and understandably so. If performed to its full potential I can see it being a successful program. I do agree the FD is better, they really sold it today.

I would have them ahead of H/K in the FD. Much more polished and better skating skills and expression. And I’m an old Led Zep fan too!

 

[Bigbird]

With all my admiration for H/B, only Baker seems to be really ready. While I also respect the IAM and material they give their teams, the RD seems to suit him and not her. The music is also not a good fit for both of them. Gre/Par seem to have better programs that fit them, they're in good shape and they have the momentum.

 

[Karen-W]

With all my admiration for H/B, only Baker seems to be really ready. While I also respect the IAM and material they give their teams, the RD seems to suit him and not her. The music is also not a good fit for both of them. Gre/Par seem to have better programs that fit them, they're in good shape and they have the momentum.

Well, Hawayek had a knee injury earlier this summer and a concussion sometime this fall, so her ice time and training has been limited. It would make sense that Baker seems to be more prepared and ready of the duo.

I don't know how I feel about their RD yet. I'm ambivalent until I see it at least once more, with more training time.

 

[angi]

With all my admiration for H/B, only Baker seems to be really ready. While I also respect the IAM and material they give their teams, the RD seems to suit him and not her. The music is also not a good fit for both of them. Gre/Par seem to have better programs that fit them, they're in good shape and they have the momentum.

To be fair, that momentum also includes three falls in four competitions which is a problematic indication for readiness. I think their momentum halted at least a bit after their last GP but we'll have to wait and see how H/B will do at Golden Spin and of course at nationals.

 

[deegee]

Going back to discuss ice dance, I was really impressed with how Hawayek/Baker looked this weekend, it was a good reminder of their best qualities - speed, deep edges, ice coverage, and beautiful interpretation. While I do think Green/Parsons have shown a lot of improvement and have good material this season, H/B remain the superior teams, and them looking this polished in their season debut after losing so much training time is a testament to why they deserve that 3rd Olympic spot.

yes, and it certainly doesn't help gr/p's case that they've had 3 error-ridden outings this season already.

 

[deegee]

and i REALLY love hawayek's dress for the fd! that skirt is sublime and the color is different and gorgeous

 

[escaflowne9282]

I think they are referring to their close friendship with Vanessa James, them allegedly attracting ********* at a house party when there weren't supposed to be house parties, and some stuff Cizeron shared about being anti vaccine passports.
(But I'm sure there's more, there's always more with fs Twitter).

I probably shouldn't but.. .since when do P&C have a "close friendship" with Vanessa James? They were always cordial with J&C on the French tour , and they seem supportive of her moving on with Eric Radford following the Cipres situation, but "close friendship" ? When?

The beer burden story , if true, is just poor judgment on their part which they paid for.
I don't agree with being anti vaccine passport ,but presumably he got a vaccine anyway since he's competing.

In any case I'm realizing I have a much higher threshold for calling someone problematic than Twitter does.

 

[GoneWithTheWind]

In the press conference after the FD, Guignard/Fabbri announced that they intend to continue competing after this season, and will not retire as some (myself included) suspected they might! I'm very excited by this and wonder if this means they might plan to compete until their home Olympics? (they didn't specify how many seasons they still plan to compete)

Source: https://twitter.com/goldenskate/status/1464596700711030785 (and a thank you to @Andrea82 who mentioned G/F's plans in the FD thread)

 

[angi]

I probably shouldn't but.. .since when do P&C have a "close friendship" with Vanessa James? They were always cordial with J&C on the French tour , and they seem supportive of her moving on with Eric Radford following the Cipres situation, but "close friendship" ? When?

The beer burden story , if true, is just poor judgment on their part which they paid for.
I don't agree with being anti vaccine passport ,but presumably he got a vaccine anyway since he's competing.

In any case I'm realizing I have a much higher threshold for calling someone problematic than Twitter does.

Just clarifying that I'm just sharing what I saw on Twitter, not what I think...

 

[Rhumba d’Amour]

Going back to discuss ice dance, I was really impressed with how Hawayek/Baker looked this weekend, it was a good reminder of their best qualities - speed, deep edges, ice coverage, and beautiful interpretation. While I do think Green/Parsons have shown a lot of improvement and have good material this season, H/B remain the superior teams, and them looking this polished in their season debut after losing so much training time is a testament to why they deserve that 3rd Olympic spot.

My first thought on seeing H/B’s programs was, these are the nice, conservative type of programs that will resonate more with nice, conservative folks like USFS than G/P’s programs do, and that absent something unexpected, they look to be sitting pretty as far as the Olympic selection process is concerned.

All H/B have to do is hold off G/P, and I can see them doing that. There is no one else that can challenge them domestically.

 

[sap5]

how is this passive aggressive? I'm not even making arguments, just saying that making assumptions about people who are simply trying to highlight abuse in this sport takes isn't fair when chances are, they want to make this sport a healthier place for athletes to be.

I too work in activist spaces and ultimately I think people just want to see real change and people held to account. I honestly could not care less who these tweets are about.

I’m troubled by how the thread writer notes that there have been no complaints about Nikita in recent years, but claims that should be invalidated because of past abuse. At what point is a person allowed to learn from mistakes and change? I do understand that this can depend on the severity of the crime.

 

[sap5]

I like H/B’s RD, and thought Hawayek did a great job selling it. She really owned it from a minute she stepped out, which is tough to do when their first outing was Rostelecom.

 

[canbelto]

I’m troubled by how the thread writer notes that there have been no complaints about Nikita in recent years, but claims that should be invalidated because of past abuse. At what point is a person allowed to learn from mistakes and change? I do understand that this can depend on the severity of the crime.

Not making a judgment on Nikita because I wasn't there and there's very few sources, but abusers don't change.

 

[tony]

I read bits and pieces of the Twitter stuff. That format just gives me a headache and I still can't stand reading broken up messages that all have different replies to them separately. A lot of it has been shared around the internet, some has not. Someone called out the poster about it being 'alleged' stuff but I do agree (sorry if you're reading here) that the word was used very sparingly, especially considering the poster had room for trigger warnings with every new addition to the thread.

Regarding P&C- 100% it's the lovely Twitter group who cannot stand Eric Radford or Vanessa James running off of what Dave Lease posted in his mini-rant when the pairing first got announced. They bitch and bitch about Dave being so problematic and causing drama, but it seems they will certainly use a brief mention of something he wrote as ammunition to continue to act like they are doing so much better for the world. There, I said it too.

Also, FWIW, there are people actually a bit more 'in the know' of what is going on with certain situations and they know that not everything is as exactly black and white as it seems, but the social justice warriors never did care about missing details.

Not making a judgment on Nikita because I wasn't there and there's very few sources, but abusers don't change.

Not making a single argument for Nikita or anyone else, but this is simply not correct every single time.

 

[Cherub721]

I think Twitter doesn't like Gabi because she liked an RIP Coughlin post, which she later disavowed when she found out about the allegations.

 

[tony]

I think Twitter doesn't like Gabi because she liked an RIP Coughlin post, which she later disavowed when she fought out about the allegations.

For as lovely and save the world as they all think they are, they sure do seem to use the 'omg I hate him/her so much!!' line pretty often.

 

[escaflowne9282]

Just clarifying that I'm just sharing what I saw on Twitter, not what I think...

Oh yes , I realize that. Just to be clear,, my reaction was just to the ideas of what Twitter considers "problematic", not you.

 

[Orm Irian]

maybe they're just from a different generation than you and won't stand for awful behaviour? It's incredibly cynical to assume this is about them "being haters" when we're talking about a sport that in the grand scheme of things is inconsequential.

Having been active across a number of fandoms, I recognise anti language and behaviour when I see them popping up in figure skating discourse. Anti-ism isn't about being 'woke' or 'not standing for awful behaviour', it's wholly and solely about appropriating and weaponising the language of social justice in order to establish an in-group and an out-group, place oneself safely with in the in-group, and gain license to bully and harm those in the out-group. It's actually a big problem across the whole of fannish culture right now, not just in one little niche sport's fandom, because it does a lot of harm, both to those who've been determined to belong in the out-group and, at a psychological and social level, to the members of the self-determined in-group too, because they have to constantly self-monitor against an ever-shifting standard of righteousness - one out-of-date terminology use can see them dumped into the out-group and bullied themselves. It's hard for them to recognise that except with a lot of time and perspective applied, though.

One way you can recognise anti-ism is that it follows a similar all-sins-are-as-bad-as-each-other mindset to religious fundamentalism - so, for example, Papadakis/Cizeron attending a house party that may or may not have been within the safety rules where they were at the time (I have no idea either way) and contracting C-19 there being assumed to be as bad, in some vague and undefined way, as Morozov grooming and abusing a teenager.

There are some elements of the anti mindset in that twitter thread. It's not fully lost to the movement, but it's close enough that you're going to need to separate the information from the presentation and make your own judgment call about both content and source.

And getting back to the skating side of things rather than the skating-fandom side, I really like Reed/Ambrulevicius's RD this year and I'm glad it went much better for them this week than last. Fingers crossed they can sort out Allison's citizenship issues and take it to the Olympics!

 

[muffinplus]

I think Twitter doesn't like Gabi because she liked an RIP Coughlin post, which she later disavowed when she found out about the allegations

I am surprised they have not found a way to call her an abuse enabler because she was in a relationship with Caruso.

 

[Orm Irian]

I am surprised they have not found a way to call her an abuse enabler because she was in a relationship with Caruso.

Someone will, soon enough. See my post about the anti mindset above.

 

[skategal]

Just a follow-up on P/C and catching CV from a house party….when it was first brought up here last year, it was determined that small house parties were allowed under public health regulations at the time in Montreal.

So it wasn’t as a result of breaking rules.

I know this information is not really the point of the discussion but I didn’t want it out there that they may have gone against public Heath orders.

Ok carry on…..

 

[Karen-W]

Bringing these thoughts regarding the 2nd tier Russian Dance teams over from Sekret Sources...

DavSmo, yes, I think there is/was a clear upward push on their scores, but heck, ShaNar's score from SCI to Warsaw Cup jumped 24 points.

It's hard to say what's really afoot yet with regard to the Russian teams (apart from SinKats as the clear leaders and ZagGuer who are unknown due to injury). Disregarding Challenger/Senior B scores (Denis Ten was also wildly overscored), StepBuk are clearly far ahead, it's a dead heat between SkopAle & DavSmo with KhudaBaz and MorBag close enough to both that a major error would close the gap, and ShaNar & ShevEre are pretty far behind to round out the top 10 at RusNats.

StepBuk
GP Italia 202.18
IdF 200.29

SkopAle
Denis Ten 195.06
Rostelecom 180.93

DavSmo
US Classic 190.63
SCI 180.57
Cup of Austria 184.62
Warsaw Cup 199.90

KhudaBaz
Denis Ten 186.80
Rostelecom 177.51

MorBag
SkAm 175.32
IdF 172.32

ShaNar
Budapest 174.90
SCI 160.66
Warsaw Cup 184.43

ShevEre
NHK 160.13

 

[barbarafan]

I would have them ahead of H/K in the FD. Much more polished and better skating skills and expression. And I’m an old Led Zep fan too!

what is with the overscoring with H/K. She destroys her twizzles at almost each outing with very small deduction and high GOE's. We are not talking a little balance check here. She wig wags and wobbles through entire sections of it. Is this something else Zhulin is involved in.

 

[Bigbird]

what is with the overscoring with H/K. She destroys her twizzles at almost each outing with very small deduction and high GOE's. We are not talking a little balance check here. She wig wags and wobbles through entire sections of it. Is this something else Zhulin is involved in.

The ice dance politricks are just plain aggravating at times.

 

[Wyliefan]

That was a very true and insightful post, @Orm Irian. Along those lines, I just saw a Twitter thread that ruthlessly dissected five of the six top Russian women, until Anna was the only one left whom it was morally permissible to support. These movements tend to devour themselves, and it's not hard to see why.

 

[Karen-W]

That was a very true and insightful post, @Orm Irian. Along those lines, I just saw a Twitter thread that ruthlessly dissected five of the six top Russian women, until Anna was the only one left whom it was morally permissible to support. These movements tend to devour themselves, and it's not hard to see why.

With the exception of Liza, the six top Russian women are all 18 or younger - just WHAT could they have done that was so morally offensive to be unsupportable? Christ on a cracker, they're teenagers - they're going to make mistakes and do stupid things.

 

[canbelto]

With the exception of Liza, the six top Russian women are all 18 or younger - just WHAT could they have done that was so morally offensive to be unsupportable? Christ on a cracker, they're teenagers - they're going to make mistakes and do stupid things.

So I just searched up "Alexandra Trusova" and this was like the first tweet I saw:

https://twitter.com/ttercerafase

@ttercerafase
·
Nov 26

#Rostelecom2021 Anna Shcherbakova and Alexandra Trusova WE NEED YOU Women rights need you! Save us from Elizaveta Tuktamysheva bullsh*t comments hating on women and from her racist jokes! Anya & Sasha PLEASE we need you BOTH to stop liza tuktik circus ! #RostelecomCup2021

Then under that tweet there was this:
https://twitter.com/lsamsarax

@lsamsarax
·
8h

yes liza seems conservative but add sasha trusova "I want to start a family in 2 years max"she wears ortodox cross, like aliona kostornaia. kosto & family are ok with her dating +30 y old coach kamila valieva is muslim and said she want longer dresses to cover her body more

@lsamsarax
·
7h

I dont try to justify Liza, she cause me perplexity in each interview but Aliona, Sasha & Kamila are also a disappointment: strong religion is incompatible with feminism. The most open mind seems to be Anna Shcherbakova and she is the only one who does not carry religious symbols

 

[Wyliefan]

Yep, that's the thread.