Pairs Discussion Thread 2021-22

[Vash01]

M/D had the best spins? No comment.

I was talking about creativity, beauty In what was known as 'Natalia's spin'. You misinterpreted my statement, and missed the main topic. No surprise. This is fsu.

 

[trouble77]

Ok, first of all, you didn't talk about creativity and beauty. The Natalia's spin wasn't even invented by M/D. A pair did it before them. I think it was a Canadian pair from the 80s who did it before them.

 

[Vash01]

Ok, first of all, you didn't talk about creativity and beauty. The Natalia's spin wasn't even invented by M/D. A pair did it before them. I think it was a Canadian pair from the 80s who did it before them.

Yes I am familiar with Sandra Bezic's statement about the Canadian team. You are missing the main point of the conversation, which was ice dance spins and pairs spins. So what I didn't use the words beauty and creativity? It was an example of a great and well known pairs spin, which was admired. The original skater does not always get credit for a move. For example Biellman was not the first the do that spin. We are not discussing which pair had the best spins or who invented a certain spin. You took my post completely out of context. I am not sure you even read the complete post, or may be you didnt understand it. The intent of my original post was to make a correction to someone's statement, and share some information.

I will not discuss this with you anymore.

 

[trouble77]

I didn't care about the content of the entire conversation. You said M/D had the best spin. Out of context, within the context. That's what you said.
I am happy to end it here.

 

[Sylvia]

Check out @clairecloutier's comprehensive 2021-22 season preview of PAIRS from Russia, China, Canada, USA, JPN's M/K & notable European teams!

Pairs Season Preview 2021 - A divine sport

It’s hard to believe that another Olympic season is here already. Thanks to covid-19, the last four years have been unlike any other quad in figure skating. The sport saw the unprecedented cancellation of the 2020 ISU World Championships at the start of the pandemic, then a truncated 2020-21...

adivinesport.com

Would anyone like to share any thoughts on what Claire wrote before the Pairs SP takes place at Skate America later today?

 

[Doggygirl]

Would anyone like to share any thoughts on what Claire wrote before the Pairs SP takes place at Skate America later today?

@clairecloutier I always love your articles and also your thoughtful posts around FSU!

In general, I'm looking forward to the season to cheer on the pairs who have been on the scene for a while, and also to check out emerging pairs that I haven't seen at all, or have seen very few times. Every year I try to fit in JGP viewing, and so far it hasn't happened consistently. So there are some pairs mentioned in the article that will be very new for me this season.

Russia: OMG what's not to love about the wealth of great teams??? Tarasova/Morosov are my sentimental favorites - I would love to see them sneak a medal at the Olys. I really didn't "get" Mishina/Galliomov two seasons ago. Strong elements, but (IMO) completely lacking in style. That changed for me last season, and now I'm a fan. I especially love that Mishina is not some annorexic looking pair girl who is afraid to eat a sandwich. She looks fit and strong (as does he) and I just love the power that they portray. I also love Boi/Koz and hope they can pull together their programs - they seemed a bit uncooked in the early season. Love all the other Russian pairs as well - wish some of them could go country shopping! (Daria! )

China: Rooting for Sui/Han to win their Oly gold, of course. Also love Peng/Jin and root for them to have a good season. It's heartbreaking that the powerful pairs program in China seems to have fallen apart. The Chinese pairs always gave Russian pairs a run for their money, and it is sad to see that aspect of pairs competition dwindling.

Canada: Also hoping for some new emerging stars in Canadian pairs. (and perhaps there are some exciting things happening in juniors!) Mean time, GO OLD FARTS!!! (speaking as one myself!) I'm concerned about KM-T/M2 - their looooow twist was downright scary at the early season comp! Wishing James/Rad well - I'm not crazy about their music selections. It seems logical to me (but I'm no teknik, so probably way off base) that a new pair would find it easier to skate to slower music. But...I still find it snoozy. They are sure a striking couple on the ice. AND I AM TOTALLY TEAM STELLATO-DUDEK! I hope they get some good assignments over the next year since she was finally released. Walsh/Michaud - well, maybe they will impress me more this season????

USA: I found the live arena feedback from SA practices yesterday to be very telling - skating skills of Russia v. skating skills of USA. Oh well. Sentimental faves are Gribbles. I love their long lines together, and their personalities and goals. My heart breaks for the known and unknown damage done to US pair people by Delilah Sappenfield. May she burn in hell.

Other: LOVE Barquero Zandron! I thought she had star power before, and now she seems to have a strong partner. Wishing them a great season - it's sure off to a good start! I think they are my new favorite Western European pair. I also love Japan's Miura/Kihara!

Well, those are my faves and picks! Wishing all the pairs a season to be proud of.

 

[clairecloutier]

@clairecloutier I always love your articles and also your thoughtful posts around FSU!

USA: I found the live arena feedback from SA practices yesterday to be very telling - skating skills of Russia v. skating skills of USA. Oh well. Sentimental faves are Gribbles. I love their long lines together, and their personalities and goals. My heart breaks for the known and unknown damage done to US pair people by Delilah Sappenfield. May she burn in hell.

Love hearing your thoughts, @Doggygirl.

Regarding the skating skills ... I'll just speak based on my recent experience seeing these teams live. T/M > U.S. pairs for sure in terms of skating skills, speed, power. P/P--no. They may be smooth on the ice, but they lack power. Or, at least, that was my impression when I saw them at John Nicks. Their PCS scores at the John Nicks event reflected this.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

I was talking about creativity, beauty In what was known as 'Natalia's spin'. You misinterpreted my statement, and missed the main topic. No surprise. This is fsu.

As I mentioned before I have been watching YouTube videos from 92 to 94 and one of Natalia and Arturo’s performances around that time I think 92 Sandra Bezic says it’s not Natalias spin that it was actually created by a Canadian team and she seems so proud of it but she didn’t say what team and Scott Hamilton did not respond to her comment. It was interesting to hear this…

I consider it Natalias spin myself

 

[hoptoad]

Would anyone like to share any thoughts on what Claire wrote before the Pairs SP takes place at Skate America later today?

I agree with Claire that US pairs are getting better and better! And that the Russians are ridiculously good!

I wonder what Shen and Zhou are thinking about Chinese pairs these days. It took them a good decade to become great, but no Chinese pairs seem to get long term support these days.

 

[SDoesNotKnow]

The Americans were great in the arena, Tarasova/Morosov out-classed everyone, while Miura/Kihara had a performance that won over the audience and resulted in a spontaneous standing ovation.

 

[Vash01]

Watched practices of only the top three because I enjoyed eating breakfast with other fsuers. Missed all the earlier pairs. No regrets.

 

[Spun Silver]

I agree with Claire that US pairs are getting better and better! And that the Russians are ridiculously good!

I wonder what Shen and Zhou are thinking about Chinese pairs these days. It took them a good decade to become great, but no Chinese pairs seem to get long term support these days.

I wonder what Shen and Zhou have done wrong that led to the collapse of the discipline, or what's wrong above their pay grade. It's not what I expected from them.

 

[love_skate2011]

Pavlyuchenko / Khodykin Olympics hopes are alive.

Its just a matter of time of either T/M or B/K to implode in the GP or Nationals.
for now the weakest links are B/K.

Дарья Павлюченко - Денис Ходыкин. Короткая программа. Кубок России по фигурному катанию 2021

Дарья Павлюченко и Денис Ходыкин представили новую короткую программу "Be Italian" на втором этапе Кубка России в Йошкар-Оле. За свой прокат они получили 73,...

www.youtube.com

 

[shan]

Pavlyuchenko / Khodykin Olympics hopes are alive.

Its just a matter of time of either T/M or B/K to implode in the GP or Nationals.
for now the weakest links are B/K.

Дарья Павлюченко - Денис Ходыкин. Короткая программа. Кубок России по фигурному катанию 2021

Дарья Павлюченко и Денис Ходыкин представили новую короткую программу "Be Italian" на втором этапе Кубка России в Йошкар-Оле. За свой прокат они получили 73,...

www.youtube.com

Wow! That catch on the twist??? Crazy!

 

[Vash01]

US pairs are definitely getting better. More speed, big elements, complex lifts.

The Japanese pair Miura Kihara has been the biggest surprise so far this young season. A silver at SA bodes well.

A bronze at SA does not bode well for B/K. The pairs scene in Russia is too competitive. They will have to do much better in their next GP. Overall though I felt that they are a talented pair with speed, technical difficulty and a great coach. I hope they can fix whatever is wrong.

T/M are in a class by themselves as current pairs skating is concerned but can they compete against the current top two and win? We have to wait to find that out.

 

[aka_gerbil]

T/M, by a couple of hundredths, do have the highest pairs score this season. If they go clean and hit the jumps, they can win.

 

[GoneWithTheWind]

A bronze at SA does not bode well for B/K. The pairs scene in Russia is too competitive. They will have to do much better in their next GP.

With the withdrawal of Peng/Jin, their next GP (IdF) has a much less competitive field, so they should be looking to win there. The main medal challengers are Knierim/Frazier, Artemeva/Nazarychev and perhaps James/Radford. Then you've got the 2 French teams, G/A from Italy and C/M from Hungary to round out the competition.

 

[Vash01]

With the withdrawal of Peng/Jin, their next GP (IdF) has a much less competitive field, so they should be looking to win there. The main medal challengers are Knierim/Frazier, Artemeva/Nazarychev and perhaps James/Radford. Then you've got the 2 French teams, G/A from Italy and C/M from Hungary to round out the competition.

That sounds very favorable For both B/K and K/F.

 

[Karen-W]

With the withdrawal of Peng/Jin, their next GP (IdF) has a much less competitive field, so they should be looking to win there. The main medal challengers are Knierim/Frazier, Artemeva/Nazarychev and perhaps James/Radford. Then you've got the 2 French teams, G/A from Italy and C/M from Hungary to round out the competition.

I was actually thinking that if K/F get their levels in the SP and both teams skate the same as they did in the FS, B/K could be looking at a silver instead of gold. And, I'm not convinced that whatever's got them spooked right now is going to magically disappear in the next four weeks. This should have been an easy gold or silver for them here at SkAm, and they shouldn't have felt much pressure but they certainly didn't skate like it.

 

[Spun Silver]

A bronze at SA does not bode well for B/K. The pairs scene in Russia is too competitive. They will have to do much better in their next GP. Overall though I felt that they are a talented pair with speed, technical difficulty and a great coach. I hope they can fix whatever is wrong.

I love B/K but their programs this season don't seem to suit them. It's so unfortunate when that happens, esp in an Olympic season. I guess we have to hope that they will figure out the secrets of Swan Lake and Malagueña.

 

[Vash01]

I love B/K but their programs this season don't seem to suit them. It's so unfortunate when that happens, esp in an Olympic season. I guess we have to hope that they will figure out the secrets of Swan Lake and Malagueña.

I liked their Swan Lake SP. It suits them well. I have not yet decided if Malagueña works or not. This is the first time I saw them skate it in a competition. They have the speed and sass to deliver it But when they make mistakes, like today, it is hard to tell if the program itself is the problem.

 

[RoseRed]

T/M, by a couple of hundredths, do have the highest pairs score this season. If they go clean and hit the jumps, they can win.

Well, Cranberry scores don't count for SB, since it was a Senior B, not a Challenger. But yes, they definitely can win if they go clean (or at least beat M/G - not sure who'd win if S/H also went clean).

 

[Vash01]

I was actually thinking that if K/F get their levels in the SP and both teams skate the same as they did in the FS, B/K could be looking at a silver instead of gold. And, I'm not convinced that whatever's got them spooked right now is going to magically disappear in the next four weeks. This should have been an easy gold or silver for them here at SkAm, and they shouldn't have felt much pressure but they certainly didn't skate like it.

I didn't see Tamara at SA. It surprised me because she always accompanies her students.

 

[AxelAnnie]

I I was actually thinking that if K/F get their levels in the SP and both teams skate the same as they did in the FS, B/K could be looking at a silver instead of gold. And, I'm not convinced that whatever's got them spooked right now is going to magically disappear in the next four weeks. This should have been an easy gold or silver for them here at SkAm, and they shouldn't have felt much pressure but they certainly didn't skate like it.

I don't agree. K/F won't play quite as well away from the US.

 

[aka_gerbil]

Well, Cranberry scores don't count for SB, since it was a Senior B, not a Challenger. But yes, they definitely can win if they go clean (or at least beat M/G - not sure who'd win if S/H also went clean).

I know it doesn’t count for SB. I was just thinking about overall what scores people have put up and what they’re capable of.

 

[Karen-W]

I don't agree. K/F won't play quite as well away from the US.

I'm not sure BoiKoz are going to keep playing quite as well if they don't get their jump and throw issues sorted out.

I'm not, by any stretch, saying that K/F are capable of beating them without BoiKoz giving it away or that I expect it, but it isn't out of the realm of possibility that K/F could beat BoiKoz.

 

[Karen-W]

I didn't see Tamara at SA. It surprised me because she always accompanies her students.

I don't think she is doing a lot of international traveling anymore. She didn't accompany M/G to Finlandia and Espoo is a heck of a lot closer to St Petersburg than Las Vegas.

 

[AxelAnnie]

I'm not sure BoiKoz are going to keep playing quite as well if they don't get their jump and throw issues sorted out.

I'm not, by any stretch, saying that K/F are capable of beating them without BoiKoz giving it away or that I expect it, but it isn't out of the realm of possibility that K/F could beat BoiKoz.

Too true. But I have faith and confidence.

 

[love_skate2011]

I was actually thinking that if K/F get their levels in the SP and both teams skate the same as they did in the FS, B/K could be looking at a silver instead of gold. And, I'm not convinced that whatever's got them spooked right now is going to magically disappear in the next four weeks. This should have been an easy gold or silver for them here at SkAm, and they shouldn't have felt much pressure but they certainly didn't skate like it.

test skates were an indicator they were struggling, IDF gold is not a guarantee.
P/K have a higher chance of silver in Skate Canada and Rosetelecom, then it will be trouble for B/K.

 

[hanca]

I liked their Swan Lake SP. It suits them well. I have not yet decided if Malagueña works or not. This is the first time I saw them skate it in a competition. They have the speed and sass to deliver it But when they make mistakes, like today, it is hard to tell if the program itself is the problem.

I think quite on the contrary, I love swan lake music but I don’t think it suits them at all. There is nothing swan-like on Boikova’s skating, and Kozlovski is also not the most elegant partner. With the right program they could stand out, but with swan lake, it just shows all their weaknesses, the lack of balletic preparation. Boikova is just no Mao Asada.
And the costume, the thing she wore around her neck is optically making her body bigger and her head much smaller, so it looks like she has this huge body with a tiny head.