Pairs Discussion Thread 2021-22

sk8nlizard

Well-Known Member
Messages
895
I was actually thinking that if K/F get their levels in the SP and both teams skate the same as they did in the FS, B/K could be looking at a silver instead of gold. And, I'm not convinced that whatever's got them spooked right now is going to magically disappear in the next four weeks. This should have been an easy gold or silver for them here at SkAm, and they shouldn't have felt much pressure but they certainly didn't skate like it.
I agree with this. While technically K/F went clean in the free here it wasn’t a great skate, they are capable of much more. And obviously a lot better in the short. They are also USA #1 currently and B/K are not Russia #1. Obviously B/K will have to make mistakes and K/F will have to be better than they were here, but I agree not out of the realm of possibility. It also makes pairs more interesting! I love that it’s not Russia sweeping it all (and I truly do enjoy watching the Russian pairs skate).
 

Vash01

Fan of Yuzuru, Three A's, T&M, P&C
Messages
52,007
I am still concerned about Peng Jin. Do they have a second GP?
 

Vash01

Fan of Yuzuru, Three A's, T&M, P&C
Messages
52,007
I agree with this. While technically K/F went clean in the free here it wasn’t a great skate, they are capable of much more. And obviously a lot better in the short. They are also USA #1 currently and B/K are not Russia #1. Obviously B/K will have to make mistakes and K/F will have to be better than they were here, but I agree not out of the realm of possibility. It also makes pairs more interesting! I love that it’s not Russia sweeping it all (and I truly do enjoy watching the Russian pairs skate).
I find K/F rather rough (?). They do the split triple twist well, like she did with her husband. I don’t see a lot of attention to positions and other details. They both are very experienced pairs skaters. I don’t know if it is a matter of time. May be this is the style they prefer. I find a few other US pairs more interesting.
Love hearing your thoughts, @Doggygirl. :)

Regarding the skating skills ... I'll just speak based on my recent experience seeing these teams live. T/M > U.S. pairs for sure in terms of skating skills, speed, power. P/P--no. They may be smooth on the ice, but they lack power. Or, at least, that was my impression when I saw them at John Nicks. Their PCS scores at the John Nicks event reflected this.
I agree about P/P. Their skating skills are not as good as top Russian pairs. I do like their postures and packaging. I don’t see them getting very far in the highly competitive Russian field.
 
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hanca

Values her privacy
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11,920
I agree about P/P. Their skating skills are not as good as top Russian pairs. I do like their postures and packaging. I don’t see them getting very far in the highly competitive Russian field.
I think Pepeleva/Pleshkov were lucky that they turned senior when they did. If they were just a few years younger and had to turn seniors in a bigger group of pairs like those who are ageing out after this season, they would never get on the national team. I expect the younger teams will gradually move P/P down the Russian ranking. They are so inconsistent with their jumps, it won’t be good enough for the competition within Russian pairs.
 

AngieNikodinovLove

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,296
If you ever wondered as to some of the accommodations figure skaters get at hotels when traveling Ashley Cain Gribble has some stories up that shows her room in Canada. She also shows a volcano from up in her airplane


Because of CV restrictions she has three queen beds all to herself… I mean she can at least share with ANL
 

Sylvia

Rooting for underdogs!
Messages
67,975
ISU Season Best Total Scores - Grand Prix (Skate America/Canada medalists are bolded) & 3 Challenger Series (Nebelhorn/Autumn Classic/Finlandia) [current SB rank in brackets]; lower ISU SB total scores are italicized

Last updated Oct. 31, 2021: https://results.isu.org/isujsstat/sb2021-22/sbtspto.htm

227.13 [1] Anastasia MISHINA / Aleksandr GALLIAMOV RUS CS Finlandia Trophy 2021 (gold)
224.05 [2] Wenjing SUI / Cong HAN CHN GP Skate Canada International 2021 (gold)
222.50 [3] Evgenia TARASOVA / Vladimir MOROZOV RUS GP Skate America 2021 (gold)

213.72 Evgenia TARASOVA / Vladimir MOROZOV RUS CS Finlandia Trophy 2021 (silver)
208.20 [4] Riku MIURA / Ryuichi KIHARA JPN GP Skate America 2021 (silver)
205.53 [5] Aleksandra BOIKOVA / Dmitrii KOZLOVSKII RUS GP Skate America 2021 (bronze)

204.06 Riku MIURA / Ryuichi KIHARA JPN CS Autumn Classic International 2021 (gold)
202.97 [6] Alexa KNIERIM / Brandon FRAZIER USA GP Skate America 2021 (4th)
197.42 [7] Jessica CALALANG / Brian JOHNSON USA GP Skate America 2021 (5th)
193.08 [8] Daria PAVLIUCHENKO / Denis KHODYKIN RUS GP Skate Canada International 2021 (silver)
193.00 [9] Ashley CAIN-GRIBBLE / Timothy LEDUC USA CS Finlandia Trophy 2021 (bronze)
191.89 Jessica CALALANG / Brian JOHNSON USA CS Finlandia Trophy 2021 (4th)
190.58 [10] Vanessa JAMES / Eric RADFORD CAN CS Finlandia Trophy 2021 (5th)
189.99 [11] Laura BARQUERO / Marco ZANDRON ESP CS Finlandia Trophy 2021 (6th)
189.90 Ashley CAIN-GRIBBLE / Timothy LEDUC USA GP Skate Canada International 2021 (bronze)
189.11 [12] Ekaterina CHIKMAREVA / Matvei IANCHENKOV RUS ISU JGP Krasnoyarsk 2021
188.84 [13] Natalia KHABIBULLINA / Ilya KNYAZHUK RUS ISU JGP Cup of Austria 2021
188.37 [14] Minerva Fabienne HASE / Nolan SEEGERT GER CS Finlandia Trophy 2021 (7th)
187.92 Vanessa JAMES / Eric RADFORD CAN GP Skate Canada International 2021 (4th)
186.82 Minerva Fabienne HASE / Nolan SEEGERT GER GP Skate Canada International 2021 (5th)
185.25 Minerva Fabienne HASE / Nolan SEEGERT GER CS Nebelhorn Trophy 2021 - OWG Qualifying (gold)

184.37 [15] Kirsten MOORE-TOWERS / Michael MARINARO CAN CS Finlandia Trophy 2021 (8th)
184.01 Vanessa JAMES / Eric RADFORD CAN CS Autumn Classic International 2021 (silver)
183.64 [16] Anastasia MUKHORTOVA / Dmitry EVGENYEV RUS ISU JGP Cup of Austria 2021
183.12 [17] Alina PEPELEVA / Roman PLESHKOV RUS GP Skate America 2021 (6th)
181.61 Laura BARQUERO / Marco ZANDRON ESP CS Nebelhorn Trophy 2021 - OWG Qualifying (silver)
180.25 Kirsten MOORE-TOWERS / Michael MARINARO CAN GP Skate Canada International 2021 (6th)

179.27 [18] Karina SAFINA / Luka BERULAVA GEO ISU JGP Cup of Austria 2021
178.16 Karina SAFINA / Luka BERULAVA GEO CS Nebelhorn Trophy 2021 - OWG Qualifying (bronze)
175.40 [19] Chelsea LIU / Danny O'SHEA USA GP Skate America 2021 (7th)
170.64 Ashley CAIN-GRIBBLE / Timothy LEDUC USA S Autumn Classic International 2021 (bronze)
170.46 [20] Ekaterina PETUSHKOVA / Evgenii MALIKOV RUS ISU JGP Krasnoyarsk 2021
169.91 [21] Deanna STELLATO-DUDEK / Maxime DESCHAMPS CAN CS Autumn Classic International 2021 (4th)
168.81 [22] Lori-Ann MATTE / Thierry FERLAND CAN GP Skate Canada International 2021 (7th)
168.61 [23] Katie MCBEATH / Nathan BARTHOLOMAY USA CS Autumn Classic International 2021 (5th)
168.21 [24] Annika HOCKE / Robert KUNKEL GER CS Nebelhorn Trophy 2021 - OWG Qualifying (4th)
168.13 [25] Ekaterina STORUBLEVTCEVA / Artem GRITSAENKO RUS ISU JGP Krasnoyarsk 2021
167.08 [26] Hailey KOPS / Evgeni KRASNOPOLSKI ISR CS Nebelhorn Trophy 2021 - OWG Qualifying (5th)
162.69 [27] Yuchen WANG / Yihang HUANG CHN CS Nebelhorn Trophy 2021 - OWG Qualifying (6th)
162.14 [28] Polina KOSTIUKOVICH / Aleksei BRIUKHANOV RUS ISU JGP Baltic Cup 2021
160.16 [29] Anastasia GOLUBEVA / Hektor GIOTOPOULOS MOORE AUS ISU JGP Cup of Austria 2021
159.08 [30] Bogdana LUKASHEVICH / Alexander STEPANOV BLR CS Nebelhorn Trophy 2021 - OWG Qualifying (7th)
156.40 [31] Anastasiia SMIRNOVA / Danylo SIIANYTSIA USA ISU JGP Cup of Austria 2021
151.35 [32] Kseniia AKHANTEVA / Valerii KOLESOV RUS ISU JGP Kosice 2021
150.54 [33] Violetta SIEROVA / Ivan KHOBTA UKR ISU JGP Cup of Austria 2021
149.35 Anastasia GOLUBEVA / Hektor GIOTOPOULOS MOORE AUS CS Nebelhorn Trophy 2021 - OWG Qualifying (8th)
147.61 [34] Evelyn WALSH / Trennt MICHAUD CAN GP Skate America 2021 (8th)
146.83 [35] Jessica PFUND / Joshua SANTILLAN SUI CS Autumn Classic International 2021 (6th)
145.26 [36] Daria DANILOVA / Michel TSIBA NED CS Nebelhorn Trophy 2021 - OWG Qualifying (9th)
143.44 [37] Sara CONTI / Niccolo MACII ITA CS Nebelhorn Trophy 2021 - OWG Qualifying (10th)
142.38 [38] Sofiia HOLICHENKO / Artem DARENSKYI UKR CS Nebelhorn Trophy 2021 - OWG Qualifying (11th)
142.26 [39] Elizaveta ZHUK / Martin BIDAR CZE CS Finlandia Trophy 2021 (9th)
141.96 [40] Isabelle MARTINS / Ryan BEDARD USA ISU JGP Baltic Cup 2021
141.18 [41] Lana PETRANOVIC / Antonio SOUZA KORDEIRU CRO CS Nebelhorn Trophy 2021 - OWG Qualifying (12th)
140.84 Bogdana LUKASHEVICH / Alexander STEPANOV BLR CS Finlandia Trophy 2021 (10th)
140.44 Lori-Ann MATTE / Thierry FERLAND CAN 140.44 CS Autumn Classic International 2021 (7th)
138.82 Annika HOCKE / Robert KUNKEL GER CS Finlandia Trophy 2021 (11th)

137.50 [42] Coline KERIVEN / Noel-Antoine PIERRE FRA CS Nebelhorn Trophy 2021 - OWG Qualifying (13th)
134.68 [43] Zoe JONES / Christopher BOYADJI GBR GP Skate Canada International 2021 (8th)
134.40 [44] Greta CRAFOORD / John CRAFOORD SWE CS Nebelhorn Trophy 2021 - OWG Qualifying (14th)
132.56 [45] Anastasia VAIPAN-LAW / Luke DIGBY GBR CS Finlandia Trophy 2021 (12th)
131.36 [46] Meghan FREDETTE / William ST-LOUIS CAN ISU JGP Kosice 2021
130.25 [47] Dorota BRODA / Pedro BETEGON MARTIN ESP CS Finlandia Trophy 2021 (13th)
129.75 [48] Chloe PANETTA / Kieran THRASHER CAN ISU JGP Baltic Cup 2021
129.12 Zoe JONES / Christopher BOYADJI GBR CS Nebelhorn Trophy 2021 - OWG Qualifying (15th)
124.87 [49] Letizia ROSCHER / Luis SCHUSTER GER ISU JGP Cup of Austria 2021
123.66 [50] Cate FLEMING / Chase FINSTER USA ISU JGP Cup of Austria 2021
120.73 [51] Milania VAANANEN / Mikhail AKULOV FIN CS Finlandia Trophy 2021 (14th)
119.00 [52] Nika OSIPOVA / Dmitry EPSTEIN NED CS Finlandia Trophy 2021 (15th)
116.13 [53] Barbora KUCIANOVA / Lukas VOCHOZKA CZE ISU JGP Kosice 2021
105.42 [54] Alyssa MONTAN / Filippo CLERICI ITA ISU JGP Kosice 2021
105.42 [55] Anna HERNIK / Michal WOZNIAK POL CS Nebelhorn Trophy 2021 - OWG Qualifying (16th)
99.30 [56] Anastasiya SAZONOVA / Jamshid TASHMUKHAMEDOV UZB ISU JGP Krasnoyarsk 2021
97.73 [57] Federica SIMIOLI / Alessandro ZARBO ITA ISU JGP Cup of Austria 2021
93.59 [58] Margareta MUSKOVA / Oliver KUBACAK SVK ISU JGP Kosice 2021
93.38 [59] Oxana VOUILLAMOZ / Flavien GINIAUX FRA ISU JGP Kosice 2021

Junior Grand Prix top 12 scores [current SB rank in brackets]
189.11 [12] Ekaterina CHIKMAREVA / Matvei IANCHENKOV RUS ISU JGP Krasnoyarsk 2021
188.84 [13] Natalia KHABIBULLINA / Ilya KNYAZHUK RUS ISU JGP Cup of Austria 2021
183.64 [16] Anastasia MUKHORTOVA / Dmitry EVGENYEV RUS ISU JGP Cup of Austria 2021
179.27 [18] Karina SAFINA / Luka BERULAVA GEO ISU JGP Cup of Austria 2021
170.46 [20] Ekaterina PETUSHKOVA / Evgenii MALIKOV RUS ISU JGP Krasnoyarsk 2021
168.13 [25] Ekaterina STORUBLEVTCEVA / Artem GRITSAENKO RUS ISU JGP Krasnoyarsk 2021
162.14 [28] Polina KOSTIUKOVICH / Aleksei BRIUKHANOV RUS ISU JGP Baltic Cup 2021
160.16 [29] Anastasia GOLUBEVA / Hektor GIOTOPOULOS MOORE AUS ISU JGP Cup of Austria 2021
156.40 [31] Anastasiia SMIRNOVA / Danylo SIIANYTSIA USA ISU JGP Cup of Austria 2021
151.35 [32] Kseniia AKHANTEVA / Valerii KOLESOV RUS ISU JGP Kosice 2021
150.54 [33] Violetta SIEROVA / Ivan KHOBTA UKR ISU JGP Cup of Austria 2021
141.96 [40] Isabelle MARTINS / Ryan BEDARD USA ISU JGP Baltic Cup 2021

Senior B pairs competition total scores (with 2 or more teams; 138+)
227.63 Evgeniya TARASOVA / Vladimir MOROZOV RUS Cranberry Cup
212.55 Alexa KNIERIM / Brandon FRAZIER USA John Nicks
205.87 Alexa KNIERIM / Brandon FRAZIER USA Cranberry Cup
201.12 Karina AKOPOVA / Nikita RAKHMANIN RUS Budapest Trophy
196.69 Jessica CALALANG / Brian JOHNSON USA John Nicks
195.86 Karina AKOPOVA / Nikita RAKHMANIN RUS Denis Ten
195.28 Jessica CALALANG / Brian JOHNSON USA Cranberry Cup
195.20 Audrey LU / Misha MITROFANOV USA John Nicks
193.02 Anastasia MUKHORTOVA / Dmitriy EVGENIEV RUS Denis Ten
188.10 Nicole DELLA MONICA / Matteo GUARISE ITA Lombardia Trophy
188.03 Anastasia METELKINA / Daniil PARKMAN GEO Budapest Trophy
184.94 Laura BARQUERO / Marco ZANDRON ESP Lombardia Trophy
182.44 Emily CHAN / Spencer HOWE USA Cranberry Cup
180.13 Yasmina KADYROVA / Ivan BALCHENKO RUS Denis Ten
177.45 Chelsea LIU / Danny O'SHEA USA John Nicks
177.16 Laura BARQUERO / Marco ZANDRON ESP Nice
175.42 Anastasiia METELKINA / Daniil PARKMAN GEO Denis Ten
174.62 Alina PEPELEVA / Roman PLESHKOV RUS John Nicks
172.68 Rebecca GHILARDI / Filippo AMBROSINI ITA Lombardia Trophy
170.08 Emily CHAN / Spencer HOWE USA John Nicks
165.85 Hailey KOPS / Evgeni KRASNOPOLSKI ISR John Nicks
165.20 Chelsea LIU / Danny OSHEA USA Cranberry Cup
164.17 Maria PAVLOVA / Balazs NAGY HUN Denis Ten
162.17 Safiia HOLICHENKO / Artem DARENSKIY UKR Denis Ten
161.69 Katie MCBEATH / Nathan BARTHOLOMAY USA John Nicks
158.81 Audrey LU / Misha MITROFANOV USA Cranberry Cup
157.74 Katie MCBEATH / Nathan BARTHOLOMAY USA Cranberry Cup
157.37 Ekaterina YUROVA / Dmitry BUSHLANOV BLR Ice Star
157.12 Ioulia CHTCHETININA / Márk MAGYAR HUN Budapest Trophy
156.35 Ekaterina PETUSHKOVA / Evgeniy MALIKOV RUS Denis Ten
154.09 Rebecca GHILARDI / Filippo AMBROSINI ITA Budapest Trophy
153.56 Sara CONTI / Niccolo MACII ITA Nice
[152.20 Cleo HAMON / Denys STREKALIN FRA Lombardia Trophy - SPLIT]
152.08 Jessica PFUND / Joshua SANTILLAN SUI Cranberry Cup
150.58 Ioulia CHTCHETININA / Mark MAGYAR HUN Denis Ten
150.22 Sara CONTI / Niccolo MACII ITA Lombardia Trophy
149.93 Bogdana LUKASHEVICH / Aleksandr STEPANOV BLR Ice Star
148.59 Greta CRAFOORD / John CRAFOORD SWE John Nicks
147.64 Sofiia HOLICHENKO / Artem DARENSKYI UKR Budapest Trophy
146.84 Nadezhda LABAZINA / Aleksey SVIATCHENKO RUS Denis Ten
145.96 Ekaterina STORUBLEVTSEVA / Artem GRITSAENKO RUS Denis Ten
145.69 Dorota BRODA / Pedro BETEGON ESP Nice
145.09 Anastasiia SMIRNOVA / Danil SIIANYTSIA USA Cranberry Cup
142.12 Lana PETRANOVIC / Antonio SOUZA KORDEIRU CRO Budapest Trophy
139.38 Mariia PAVLOVA / Balázs NAGY HUN Budapest Trophy
139.99 Coline KERIVEN / Noel-Antoine PIERRE FRA Lombardia Trophy
139.47 Camille KOVALEV / Pavel KOVALEV FRA Lombardia Trophy
138.41 Greta CRAFOORD / John CRAFOORD SWE Cranberry Cup

Denis Ten (Oct. 28-29); 1st Trophy Metropole Nice (Oct. 22-23); Budapest (Oct. 16-17); Ice Star Minsk (Oct. 14-15);
Lombardia (Sept. 11-12); John Nicks (Sept. 9-10);
Cranberry Cup (Aug. 14-15).
 
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s_parks

Active Member
Messages
147
Thanks Sylvia as always. Looking forward to seeing how M/G fare in their first GP of the season, and how all the top contenders stack up after the series.
 

~tapdancer~

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,441
Sui/Han just laid down a beautiful program at GP Italia. Still room to grow but the idea is to peak at Olympics, right? I really loved it and they won handily. Upped their total score points by a bit.
 

Cayuse

Well-Known Member
Messages
244
In the Kiss and Cry, there is a lot of discussion comparing Sui and Han's "Bridge Over Troubled Water" program this year to their first BOTW in 2016-17. If we go back, the first version was understandably extremely emotional because Sui had recently recovered from surgery on both feet and this was the comeback program. We, the fans, were so happy they were actually able to skate at all! The first program's choreography is quite simple compared to this year's version. I love all the "wow" moments in the new choreography. With the current scoring, that will add up to a lot of GOE points.

The first program ends on a soft note, this year's version keeps the build going. Both versions use John Legend as the performer. I like the addition of Lina Eder's voice to start off the new version. As fans we are always complaining about "why" the original artists, Simon and Garfunkel aren't being used. When great performances happen with copy-righted artists, then You Tube turns off the sound, so re-watching programs is not fun; so, I prefer the choreographer use a great cover. (Selfish reason.)

Lori Nichol doesn't always get it right. In my humble opinion, she created spectacular Olympic programs for Sui and Han (both) Peng and Jin (long) and incidentally for Yuma Kagiyama who also performed at Grand Prix Italy. Let the games begin!
 

Karen-W

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,262
One thing people seem to be forgetting in the KnC discussion is that S/H couldn't just dust off their original BOTW program because the program length has changed post-2018 for pairs. They needed an entirely new music cut for the 4min program requirements. I think the new program is lovely and can be very impactful with that final lift when they're skating on fresh legs rather than their 3rd competition in 4 weeks.
 

deegee

Well-Known Member
Messages
350
peng and jin's lp is my favorite pairs program of the season thus far. everything just works and makes sense and feels right (the choreography, the music, their costumes, their whole packaging) . and they seem more emotionally connected to each other and to the program itself than i can remember.

and she's just glowing throughout the entire thing. i have such high hopes for them this year.
 

Sylvia

Rooting for underdogs!
Messages
67,975
Grand Prix Final qualifying standings after NHK Trophy: https://results.isu.org/events/gp2021/gpspairs.htm

2 GPs completed:
Wenjing SUI / Cong HAN CHN 15 + 15 (224.55 ISU SB in Italy) = 30 (448.60)
Evgenia TARASOVA / Vladimir MOROZOV RUS 15 (222.50 ISU SB at SA) + 13 = 28 (435.77)
Riku MIURA / Ryuichi KIHARA JPN 13 + 11 = 24 (417.62) - new ISU PB/SB at NHK Trophy (209.42)
Ashley CAIN-GRIBBLE / Timothy LEDUC USA 11 + 9 = 20 (392.69) - ISU SB at NHK Trophy (202.79)

Anastasia MISHINA / Aleksandr GALLIAMOV RUS 15 (227.28 #1 in ISU SB as of today) - Rostelecom Cup
Daria PAVLIUCHENKO / Denis KHODYKIN RUS 13 (193.08) - RC
Aleksandra BOIKOVA / Dmitrii KOZLOVSKII RUS 11 (205.53) - IdF
Iuliia ARTEMEVA / Mikhail NAZARYCHEV RUS 11 (187.01) - IdF
Alexa KNIERIM / Brandon FRAZIER USA 9 (202.97) - IdF
Vanessa JAMES / Eric RADFORD CAN 9 (187.92) - IdF
Nicole DELLA MONICA / Matteo GUARISE ITA 9 (179.26) - RC

Only 1 GP (withdrawn from IdF):
Cheng PENG / Yang JIN CHN 13 (211.86)
 
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Vash01

Fan of Yuzuru, Three A's, T&M, P&C
Messages
52,007
Grand Prix Final qualifying standings after NHK Trophy: https://results.isu.org/events/gp2021/gpspairs.htm

2 GPs completed:
Wenjing SUI / Cong HAN CHN 15 + 15 (224.55 ISU SB in Italy) = 30 (448.60)
Evgenia TARASOVA / Vladimir MOROZOV RUS 15 (222.50 ISU SB at SA) + 13 = 28 (435.77)
Riku MIURA / Ryuichi KIHARA JPN 13 + 11 = 24 (417.62) - new ISU PB/SB at NHK Trophy (209.42)
Ashley CAIN-GRIBBLE / Timothy LEDUC USA 11 + 9 = 20 (392.69) - ISU SB at NHK Trophy (202.79)

Anastasia MISHINA / Aleksandr GALLIAMOV RUS 15 (227.28 #1 in ISU SB as of today) - Rostelecom Cup
Daria PAVLIUCHENKO / Denis KHODYKIN RUS 13 (193.08) - RC
Aleksandra BOIKOVA / Dmitrii KOZLOVSKII RUS 11 (205.53) - IdF
Iuliia ARTEMEVA / Mikhail NAZARYCHEV RUS 11 (187.01) - IdF
Alexa KNIERIM / Brandon FRAZIER USA 9 (202.97) - IdF
Vanessa JAMES / Eric RADFORD CAN 9 (187.92) - IdF
Nicole DELLA MONICA / Matteo GUARISE ITA 9 (179.26) - RC

Only 1 GP:
Cheng PENG / Yang JIN CHN 13 (211.86)
B/K and K/F have a great opportunity to go 1-2 in France. No high level competition, with the WD of Peng- Jin. So both are likely to make it to the GPF.

Something that has always bothered me about the GP/GPF - the GP placement depends on the field -strong/weak. The French GP has such a weak field that those who compete in it have a big advantage over those in strong fields (e.g. this year's NHK). S/H had no competition at all, in the weak fields. They would have won in any field though (unless M/G we're in it).

I would like the GOF spots determined by the marks received rather than placements. However, I don't know how practical that is. Marks can be manipulated by judges. So there May not be an ideal way. In any case GPF does not influence worlds/Olympic spots, just perception of judges.
 

Colonel Green

Well-Known Member
Messages
10,717
Something that has always bothered me about the GP/GPF - the GP placement depends on the field -strong/weak. The French GP has such a weak field that those who compete in it have a big advantage over those in strong fields (e.g. this year's NHK). S/H had no competition at all, in the weak fields. They would have won in any field though (unless M/G we're in it).
The whole point of the seeding is to distribute top competitors approximately evenly. It's just impossible to maintain that if teams withdraw, as almost always happens in at least a few instances.
 

Karen-W

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,262
Grand Prix Final qualifying standings after NHK Trophy: https://results.isu.org/events/gp2021/gpspairs.htm

2 GPs completed:
Wenjing SUI / Cong HAN CHN 15 + 15 (224.55 ISU SB in Italy) = 30 (448.60)
Evgenia TARASOVA / Vladimir MOROZOV RUS 15 (222.50 ISU SB at SA) + 13 = 28 (435.77)
Riku MIURA / Ryuichi KIHARA JPN 13 + 11 = 24 (417.62) - new ISU PB/SB at NHK Trophy (209.42)
Ashley CAIN-GRIBBLE / Timothy LEDUC USA 11 + 9 = 20 (392.69) - ISU SB at NHK Trophy (202.79)

Anastasia MISHINA / Aleksandr GALLIAMOV RUS 15 (227.28 #1 in ISU SB as of today) - Rostelecom Cup
Daria PAVLIUCHENKO / Denis KHODYKIN RUS 13 (193.08) - RC
Aleksandra BOIKOVA / Dmitrii KOZLOVSKII RUS 11 (205.53) - IdF
Iuliia ARTEMEVA / Mikhail NAZARYCHEV RUS 11 (187.01) - IdF
Alexa KNIERIM / Brandon FRAZIER USA 9 (202.97) - IdF
Vanessa JAMES / Eric RADFORD CAN 9 (187.92) - IdF
Nicole DELLA MONICA / Matteo GUARISE ITA 9 (179.26) - RC

Only 1 GP:
Cheng PENG / Yang JIN CHN 13 (211.86)
You know, I'm thinking that things could get really messy/interesting with the GPF qualifiers if KniFra pull off a win against BoiKoz this week. Final GPF spot could be determined by combined scores from both events for MiuKih and BoiKoz.

Alternate spots could also be determined by combined scores if JamRad beat ArtNaz here.

And, while they only have 7 points and aren't going to qualify for the GPF, Lu/Mitrofanov's 190.03 NHK score isn't far off of PavKho's score from GP Italia - they could play a spoiler at RC with a silver and further muddle things up.

Sui/Han - 30 pts
MishGal - 30 pts (assuming they win RC)
TarMor - 28 pts
KniFra - 24 pts (15+9)
PavKho - 24 pts (13+11 if they finish 3rd at RC behind LuMit)
MiuKih - 24 pts (11+9)
BoiKoz - 24 pts (13+11)


LuMit - 20 pts (7+13 if they sneak in for silver at RC)
C-G/LeD - 20 pts (9+11)
JamRad - 20 pts (9+11)
ArtNaz - 20 pts (11+9)
 

tony

But it just doesn't fcuking glide
Messages
10,932
scratch the previous post, I forgot one team.

As long as B/K win in France this week and P/K are able to win at least bronze at home, the 6 finalists would be:

Mishina/Galiamov (30)
Sui/Han 30
Tarasova/Morozov 28
Boikova/Kozlovskii (26)
Miura/Kihara 24
Pavliuchenko/Khodykin (24)

The only team with a chance for a crazy upset IMO would be Artemeva/Nazarychev finishing with a high enough score this week in 2nd place and then P/K having another rough outing next week for bronze and losing on total point tiebreaker.
 
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Karen-W

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,262
If B/K win in France, then the final qualifier is likely to be the team that wins silver next week between Knierim/Frazier, Artemeva/Nazarychev, and James/Radford.

In that event, it doesn’t matter if Lu/Mitrofanov surprise for silver in Russia (which I don’t see happening anyways), because a Podium for Pavliuchenko/Khodykin puts them in anyways.
No, silver or lower for both KniFra and JamRad will result in no more than 22 points since they're both sitting at 9 points and push them into alternate status, regardless of the outcome of RC.

SuiHan - 30 pts (15+15)
MishGal - 30 pts (15+15)
TarMor - 28 pts (15+13)
BoiKoz - 26 pts (11+15)
MiuKih - 24 pts (13+11)

ArtNaz, with silver, would have 24 points, which ties them with MiuKih and then it goes to the 3rd tiebreaker (total points - which they'd almost certainly lose to MiuKih).

PavKho - silver at RC would guarantee them a GPF berth (13+13) but a bronze would tie them with MiuKih and (assuming silver at IdF) ArtNaz, and in that case, it then goes to the 3rd tiebreaker. I agree that anything less than silver at RC is probably unlikely but they were not strong at GP Italia and it isn't as though LuMit's NHK score is all that far from it.
 

tony

But it just doesn't fcuking glide
Messages
10,932
No, silver or lower for both KniFra and JamRad will result in no more than 22 points since they're both sitting at 9 points and push them into alternate status, regardless of the outcome of RC.

SuiHan - 30 pts (15+15)
MishGal - 30 pts (15+15)
TarMor - 28 pts (15+13)
BoiKoz - 26 pts (11+15)
MiuKih - 24 pts (13+11)

ArtNaz, with silver, would have 24 points, which ties them with MiuKih and then it goes to the 3rd tiebreaker (total points - which they'd almost certainly lose to MiuKih).

PavKho - silver at RC would guarantee them a GPF berth (13+13) but a bronze would tie them with MiuKih and (assuming silver at IdF) ArtNaz, and in that case, it then goes to the 3rd tiebreaker. I agree that anything less than silver at RC is probably unlikely but they were not strong at GP Italia and it isn't as though LuMit's NHK score is all that far from it.
Check my post ;)
 

Vash01

Fan of Yuzuru, Three A's, T&M, P&C
Messages
52,007
You know, I'm thinking that things could get really messy/interesting with the GPF qualifiers if KniFra pull off a win against BoiKoz this week. Final GPF spot could be determined by combined scores from both events for MiuKih and BoiKoz.

Alternate spots could also be determined by combined scores if JamRad beat ArtNaz here.

And, while they only have 7 points and aren't going to qualify for the GPF, Lu/Mitrofanov's 190.03 NHK score isn't far off of PavKho's score from GP Italia - they could play a spoiler at RC with a silver and further muddle things up.

Sui/Han - 30 pts
MishGal - 30 pts (assuming they win RC)
TarMor - 28 pts
KniFra - 24 pts (15+9)
PavKho - 24 pts (13+11 if they finish 3rd at RC behind LuMit)
MiuKih - 24 pts (11+9)
BoiKoz - 24 pts (13+11)


LuMit - 20 pts (7+13 if they sneak in for silver at RC)
C-G/LeD - 20 pts (9+11)
JamRad - 20 pts (9+11)
ArtNaz - 20 pts (11+9)
I don't see LuMit winning silver at RC. I am forgetting who is competing besides M/G.

P/K still have a chance,I think but it won't be easy.

I think K/F could beat B/K at IdF. K/F are improving in confidence while B/K may be declining. So the scenario you described could actually happen.

I like Art/Naz but I don't see them beating P/K.
 

Karen-W

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,262
‘As long as B/K win in France’
Ah, gotcha. Yes, as long as they win, things only get muddled for the final spot on a tiebreaker (which ArtNaz are most likely to lose).

Personally, I'm rooting for as much chaos as possible in the GPF standings... Best bet for that are the two US teams. Or JamRad suddenly landing their jumps/throws, lol.
 

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