2022 Four Continents Comes To Rude Euro Land (Relocation to Tallinn)

[On My Own]

Wait, whom is Brenda Bottems supposed to be parodying? I mean, obviously a satire account, but not sure whom it's supposed to be making fun of?

 

[allezfred]

(I don't remember why Savchenko/Szolkowy weren't there)

Injury, I believe? I seem to recall them being in Sheffield, but then withdrawing at the last moment...

 

[mjb52]

Wait, whom is Brenda Bottems supposed to be parodying? I mean, obviously a satire account, but not sure whom it's supposed to be making fun of?

I think it's more of a character piece

 

[MsZem]

Just going to point out that the original comment was that Euros has been not much more than a mini-Russian Nats with a few other countries thrown in for good measure in the last TWENTY-FIVE years. @Vagabond chose to cherry-pick a very specific period within that 25 year window in which Rissia was at its absolute lowest in Women’s skating and not much better in Men's skating. You are continuing to perpetuate the myth that somehow, Euros over the last quarter century has NOT been dominated by Russia, which is simply neither true nor accurate. Even during that 6 year window, Russia was still dominant in both Pairs and Dance. And, outside of that, Russia has been extremely dominant in the singles disciplines as well. One country has won over half of all medals in for grabs at Euros since 1994. Russia.

Euros in the past twenty five years has not been dominated by Russia. It is not "mini-Russian Nats".

Russia is the most successful country at the event, but to my way of thinking, a dominant country would win more titles than they have, and won't go through extended periods with weaker results in certain disciplines. What you can see with Euros is periods of several years of one skater/country being very successful: this includes Surya Bonaly in the first half of the 1990s, Javier Fernandez's seven year stretch of titles, Carolina Kostner from 2007-2013, Papadakis/Cizeron post-Sochi, and, indeed, Russian skaters at various points in time.

Countries that were part of the USSR are not Russia, and haven't been for a while, so your "fronting" certain skaters is just weird. Of course Elene Gedevanishvili and Drobiazko/Vanagas aren't Russian, to give just a couple of examples.

I really don't understand why it's necessary to diminish the value and competitiveness of either Euros or 4CC. Euros has a longer tradition and draws the top European skaters every year, and medals are distributed between considerably more countries. 4CC has positioned itself as a fantastic event, and outside of Olympic years it is often the stronger competition these days. Euros has one major skating power, but plenty of medals won by others. 4CC has several strong countries sharing the wealth, with fewer medalists from elsewhere. Why is one inherently better than the other? Both events are competitive and interesting, and really the more skating competitions the better.

And this year, it's easy to attend both back to back! FSUers who can do so, please go and report

 

[clairecloutier]

I think over the years, 4CCs has been the subject of so much derision on this board that some are ready to see the tables turned.

But, ultimately, I agree with the idea that we should just watch and enjoy both competitions. There are years/disciplines where Euros is better; there are years/discipline where 4CCs is better. There's usually some great skating at both events every year.

For me, the 2019 4CCs men's free skate is still one of the best and most exciting skating events I've seen live. Fantastic. But what I wouldn't have given to be at Euros for some of the pairs events in recent years, such as the famous Stolbova/Klimov staredown or the return of both Savchenko and Trankov in 2016.

 

[MsZem]

Injury, I believe? I seem to recall them being in Sheffield, but then withdrawing at the last moment...

Yes, Wikipedia confirms (with references) that Savchenko was injured and they WD prior to the SP.

It seems very unlikely that there would have been a Russian sweep had they been able to compete. They never finished outside the medals, at any event, starting with the 2006-7 season.

 

[allezfred]

I think over the years, 4CCs has been the subject of so much derision on this board that some are ready to see the tables turned.

How are the tables being turned exactly? Oh by a small European country stepping up to host Four Continents because no 4CC country wants to do it. Har-dee-har-har

 

[MsZem]

I'm curious at to who here is indeed planning to attend five continents' worth of championships.

Also, the thread title could use an update.

 

[Coco]

Mr. coco's son lived in Tallinn for five years but just moved back home. I could have had a place to stay!Ugh!

 

[litenkyckling]

I wonder if this will impact sales for Worlds at all?

 

[VGThuy]

Why is there even a 4CC/European rivalry in the first place? I know there are political rivalries at Worlds/Olympics, but we know those cross strict continental lines and become more nuanced.

 

[BlueRidge]

Why is there even a 4CC/European rivalry in the first place?

!!!!!!!!

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

How are the tables being turned exactly? Oh by a small European country stepping up to host Four Continents because no 4CC country wants to do it. Har-dee-har-har

I always wondered if Phil Hersh was more than a lurker on this board and had an actual avatar. Methinks I may have found the culprit.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

I'm curious at to who here is indeed planning to attend five continents' worth of championships.

Also, the thread title could use an update.

I would have gone to both events if Australia wasn't still in lockdown and international travel, unless you're President Sco Mo Kim, is off the cards for everyone else.

 

[screech]

Hopefully this situation is leading to the ISU realizing that 4CC how it currently exists is not the best plan. I still think something like separate Americas and Australiasia championships would make more sense, as well as maybe including Africa in Europeans (due to time zones). Even if the championships happen every other year like how the NA championships used to. Yes, both new championships would centre mainly around just a handful of federations, but it would also be more likely to get people to actually show up. And since the regions are more centralized, it would lead to more cities in the regions to have the opportunity to host events than normally would.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Hopefully this situation is leading to the ISU realizing that 4CC how it currently exists is not the best plan. I still think something like separate Americas and Australiasia championships would make more sense, as well as maybe including Africa in Europeans (due to time zones). Even if the championships happen every other year like how the NA championships used to. Yes, both new championships would centre mainly around just a handful of federations, but it would also be more likely to get people to actually show up. And since the regions are more centralized, it would lead to more cities in the regions to have the opportunity to host events than normally would.

Four Continents was created when skating viewership in North America was close to or at its peak, and audience demand was likely hungry for greater variety. The event itself was probably rushed into being, without foreseeing some of the problems (such as fighting for a viable spot on the skating calendar and a suitable location) it has experienced since.

Being a niche sport, a lot of the smaller Four Continents federations struggle to assemble a full team. So, to send one or two skaters that make the minimum TES is a huge achievement for them, and competing means bringing home and applying what was learned from the experience.

I do hope the championship is able to continue in some way, shape or form.

 

[Hedwig]

This is wonderful - great for Estonia to step up. And anyone who considers going - do it. Tallinn is breathtakingly beautiful and always worth a visit! Take a few extra days and make the audio city tour.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

This is wonderful - great for Estonia to step up. And anyone who considers going - do it. Tallinn is breathtakingly beautiful and always worth a visit! Take a few extra days and make the audio city tour.

If it's Tuesday, this must be Tallinn! I keep forgetting how close it is to Finland and St Petersburg, too.

 

[Karen-W]

If it's Tuesday, this must be Tallinn! I keep forgetting how close it is to Finland and St Petersburg, too.

Well, if you do the Euros/4CCs double, there should be a couple of days between the two to wedge some sightseeing in.

 

[Judy]

If it's Tuesday, this must be Tallinn! I keep forgetting how close it is to Finland and St Petersburg, too.

I had never heard of it but it looks beautiful (fast google).

 

[rfisher]

I had never heard of it but it looks beautiful (fast google).

If you watched Euros or the JGP, you'd have heard of it.

 

[allezfred]

Tallinn is beautiful, but two weeks in January is really pushing it.

 

[Judy]

If you watched Euros or the JGP, you'd have heard of it.

Likely missed it. Lovely though (I don't pay for cable anymore since it is a) awful ab) crazy expensive where I live).

 

[Karen-W]

Likely missed it. Lovely though (I don't pay for cable anymore since it is a) awful ab) crazy expensive where I live).

JGP is free on YouTube. You should check out the ISUJuniorGrandPrix channel and subscribe.

 

[emilieh]

If it's Tuesday, this must be Tallinn! I keep forgetting how close it is to Finland and St Petersburg, too.

There's a quick ferry between Tallinn and Helsinki. I did a day trip to Tallinn from a Helsinki trip. Almost everyone else on the boat was pushing carts stacked high with cases of liquor. There's a duty free store, and I guess the price difference is significant.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

I'm reminded of when several US skaters like Joelle Forte attempted to apply for citizenship to Azerbaijan.

For anyone with duel citizenship, why not compete at Europeans one week, and Four Continents the next!

 

[VGThuy]

I'm reminded of when several US skaters like Joelle Forte attempted to apply for citizenship to Azerbaijan.

For anyone with duel citizenship, why not compete at Europeans one week, and Four Continents the next!

Maybe we can start a new trend. Not just duel citizenship, but duel federation membership. Miss one World/Olympic team, try for another.

 

[Karen-W]

Maybe we can start a new trend. Not just duel citizenship, but duel federation membership. Miss one World/Olympic team, try for another.

Heh. You're allowed to represent one Euros fed and one 4CCs fed. Aljona CAN skate for the US and Germany after all!

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Heh. You're allowed to represent one Euros fed and one 4CCs fed. Aljona CAN skate for the US and Germany after all!

That reminds me of a joke a friend made about that one year, so many ladies born in the USA represented the People's Republic of California.

 

[Wyliefan]

Dueling citizenship could be interesting ...

(Not being obnoxious about the spelling, I just thought the implications of "duel" were fun in this context!)